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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #1112
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Compare that to 70% of younger group - we are punishing the many for the lives of the few, the few who dont have to deal with the long term consequences.

    Pensioners are not going to have to pay back the massive public debts we have accrued

    The implication from your post is that we should basically do away with trying to protect the elderly.
    I dont think its an either/or but you clearly seem to.


  • #1113
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    Worrying reports from CSO today.

    41.7 percent of those polled out of 1621 people rated their life satisfaction levels as low. For comparison, this never went above 15.3 percent previously.

    74.4 percent of people between 18-34 said that their mental health had been impacted negatively, with 20.5 percent of 18-34 year olds reporting that they were depressed "all or most of the time."

    It's very concerning especially when you consider how much certain services were curtailed.

    Actually wish this was done properly. With a thorough analysis of how mental health is impacted. Self reported surveys are not reliable for this. At all. Given the seriousness of the potential impact to mental health. The CSO can't be faulted here, they've done their part but really in truly the government needs to get their head out of their asses and organise proper in-depth research into the mental health of the nation.

    Background depression rate (1 in 4) hasn't changed so at least that's consistent? But having people self identify as depressed is kind of pointless. All that tells is us pretty much everyone feels crap. The government can easily brush that aside due to the situation we're in. We need a thorough screening done of a random sample of the population like a seroprevalence test to assess our actual mental health and the level of service required.


  • #1114
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    The implication from your post is that we should basically do away with trying to protect the elderly.
    I dont think its an either/or but you clearly seem to.

    The rhetoric thus far has been to sacrifice all else for those vulnerable to covid.

    The list of things covered by "all else" deteriorates further with each passing week and it is clear that the situation needs to change.

    The government have already stated that they want to continue with these sacrifices even after people are vaccinated. At what point do other things matter?


  • #1115
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    Turtwig wrote: »
    It's very concerning especially when you consider how much certain services were curtailed.

    Actually wish this was done properly. With a thorough analysis of how mental health is impacted. Self reported surveys are not reliable for this. At all. Given the seriousness of the potential impact to mental health. The CSO can't be faulted here, they've done their part but really in truly the government needs to get their head out of their asses and organise proper in-depth research into the mental health of the nation.

    Background depression rate (1 in 4) hasn't changed so at least that's consistent? But having people self identify as depressed is kind of pointless. All that tells is us pretty much everyone feels crap. The government can easily brush that aside due to the situation we're in. We need a thorough screening done of a random sample of the population like a seroprevalence test to assess our actual mental health and the level of service required.

    Well we had totally inadequate mental health services and provision long before this pandemic, what makes you think we ever have a service capable of doing what you describe? Not a hope.


  • #1116
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    The implication from your post is that we should basically do away with trying to protect the elderly.
    I dont think its an either/or but you clearly seem to.

    We can protect the elderly without destroying the economy.
    How many businesses have to go bankrupt, how many people have to lose their homes before you admit that our restrictions were too much?

    The reality is, people die all the time. Death is a part of life. Preventable deaths should be prevented where possible, but after a point you reach diminishing returns.

    Put it this way - you wouldnt stop all road traffic in order to prevent the small number of road deaths we have every year?

    We could have protected our vulnerable without ruining healthy people's lives & livelihoods to this extent, and indeed other countries have done similar and came out with similar or better results on the deaths per capita front.


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  • #1117
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    timmyntc wrote: »
    More worrying is that 26.4% of people think the current restrictions are not strict enough!
    That's a different mental health issue!


  • #1118
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    The government have already stated that they want to continue with these sacrifices even after people are vaccinated.

    Have they?


  • #1119
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,244 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    What have the numbers trending down while the schools are closed have to do with my point about lack of safety in the sector?

    "Very little risk." Sorry, based on what research?

    That's not true NPHET said there's no issue. And they also did not approve 1-2nd class returning early with the other classes.

    There is another alternative actually. My point is, which I don't understand why its so difficult, is that there are no new safety measures in the education sector especially in light of the new variant, and which the ECDC and others recommend.

    The last 12 months show that kids are grand. It's a statistical insignificance to them. Have a look at the https://www.hpsc.ie/ for yourself. The numbers are in.

    NPHET wanted a phased reopening of schools, they got that. They also expect the R number to increase slightly once schools go back, which is to be expected. They never once said it wasn't safe for them to go back.

    It's time to stop calling it a new variant. This iteration of COVID has been with us since early December at the latest or a full quarter of this entire pandemic. It also hit during Christmas when numbers were also going to rise. Has any firm data been produced to say this is more deadly that all the previous versions of COVID?

    Anyhow, if you've carried out your own risk assessment and are not happy then stay away from the schools.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1120
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    At least these people have their whole lives to look forward to, paying off the billions borrowed to fund this!
    Don't worry about the billions! We've over €12bn saved in the bank waiting to be spent.


  • #1121
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/
    544916.JPG




    NPHET don't claim to have the expertise to decide which years should return, just that it should be phased

    The absence of information in your quotes does not mean that NPHET didn't recommend specific classes. Do you have a link to what NPHET specifically recommended earlier in the month? I know that jr/sr were the only ones being considered or proposed first, and I read that it was on the advice of NPHET feeding to gov't. Then something changed. Was it Norma Foley or gov't acting on their own? Not sure.
    I'll try to figure out why I think it's NPHET specific advice, whether I specifically read or assumed, I'm not sure tbh. And this is now far off course from my original points/post... Here's what I found so far:

    It comes as last night, Mr Martin told a Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting that Leaving Certificate students, junior and senior infants and fifth year students may be able to return to school on March 1st.

    However, he stressed that the easing of Level 5 restrictions will be complicated by the fact that 90 per cent of Covid-19 cases in the State are the UK B117 variant.

    Many of the big decisions about how the next few months will unfold will be informed by what happens at a Cabinet meeting this evening.

    Nphet will feed advice to the Government — recommendations that will be very hard to go against for Ministers after the mistakes made in December.

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/phased-reopening-of-schools-likely-from-march-1st-taoiseach-confirms-1083170.html


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  • #1122
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    The rhetoric thus far has been to sacrifice all else for those vulnerable to covid.

    The list of things covered by "all else" deteriorates further with each passing week and it is clear that the situation needs to change.

    The government have already stated that they want to continue with these sacrifices even after people are vaccinated. At what point do other things matter?

    I can only speak for myself, they always matter.
    Lockdowns are a blunt instrument, and only work in the short term, thats why I've said since day one and previously in this thread, that iyou only get one, maybe 2 chances at them unless you have a society built like North Korea.
    The first lockdown is your time to put in place all the things that go into ensuring you can loosen the lockdown and not return to the same level of severity.
    We manifestly have not done this. Theres no perfect solution, but equally, the government mantra that there is nothing else they could have done and no other approach they could have taken, is blatant nonsense.


  • #1123
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1364947074425499652?s=20

    Outbreaks in hospitals dropping, vaccine kicking in already......


    Honestly with data like this why is the message from Government so pessimistic . I genuinely dont get their stance

    Surely now with the end game approaching they should be thinking about how to win over some of the public. Especially Fianna Fail. This could be the end of them as a major political party


  • #1124
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Have they?

    Irish government - Restrictions into 2022. Variants. Maybe outdoor dining this summer. Variants. B.1.1.7 is a like new virus. Variants.

    English government - All restrictions to lift on June 21st, 2021.


  • #1125
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    people are fixated on the dublin airport problem, and are ignoring the reality of everything else.

    The narrative I'm seeing a lot is 'L5 is BS while there are thousands of people arriving every day', rather than 'L5 is BS'.

    People need something to fixate on and blame.... don't worry, it will be the schools next week. The airport being the only thing open till now took the brunt since xmas.


  • #1126
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    timmyntc wrote: »
    We can protect the elderly without destroying the economy.
    How many businesses have to go bankrupt, how many people have to lose their homes before you admit that our restrictions were too much?

    The reality is, people die all the time. Death is a part of life. Preventable deaths should be prevented where possible, but after a point you reach diminishing returns.

    Put it this way - you wouldnt stop all road traffic in order to prevent the small number of road deaths we have every year?

    We could have protected our vulnerable without ruining healthy people's lives & livelihoods to this extent, and indeed other countries have done similar and came out with similar or better results on the deaths per capita front.

    So I guess you wont be voting ff or fg again then?


  • #1127
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,144 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    I'd say most people are fed up rather than depressed. Mental health term has been abused to the balls. I wonder how long it will take after the pandemic to end for some people who constantly go on about mental now to start referring to anyone with issues as a snowflake man up etc again. Not too long at all.

    The terms around poor mental health have become seriously debased as campaigning and grifting around the issue has become more fashionable.

    People are clearly self reporting as depressed, when it's clear that they are not really, at least not clinically. Being fed up/bored and unhappy is not in and of itself "poor mental health"


  • #1128
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    Can I ask a genuine question please?

    The Indo is reporting today that 'the far right is insidiously working to encourage business owners to defy the regulations'.

    How does the Indo know these people are 'far right'?

    And what is insidious about protest?

    Surely we need someone to offer an alternative view to the current cozy consensus.

    Many self employed people are truly desperate for their businesses to survive. The common denominator between RTE, the politicians, NPHET and AGS is the full-time pensionable jobs.

    I am suspicious when all protests to the draconian restrictions are automatically labelled 'far right' and 'insidious'....


  • #1129
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We could have all of the mental health services in the world but as long as people aren't allowed to socialise mental health is only going to go one direction


  • #1130
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    So I guess you wont be voting ff or fg again then?

    Who is there to vote for?

    It speaks volumes about the failures of FF and FG that young people are flocking to Sinn Fein. An alternative based on pie in the sky economics with ties to terrorism.


  • #1131
    blade1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    Irish government - Restrictions into 2022. Variants. Maybe outdoor dining this summer. Variants. B.1.1.7 is a like new virus. Variants.

    English government - All restrictions to lift on June 21st, 2021.

    Only time will tell which one is closest to reality.


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  • #1132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    The absence of information in your quotes does not mean that NPHET didn't recommend specific classes. Do you have a link to what NPHET specifically recommended earlier in the month? I know that jr/sr were the only ones being considered or proposed first, and I read that it was on the advice of NPHET feeding to gov't. Then something changed. Was it Norma Foley or gov't acting on their own? Not sure.
    I'll try to figure out why I think it's NPHET specific advice, whether I specifically read or assumed, I'm not sure tbh. And this is now far off course from my original points/post... Here's what I found so far:

    It comes as last night, Mr Martin told a Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting that Leaving Certificate students, junior and senior infants and fifth year students may be able to return to school on March 1st.

    However, he stressed that the easing of Level 5 restrictions will be complicated by the fact that 90 per cent of Covid-19 cases in the State are the UK B117 variant.

    Many of the big decisions about how the next few months will unfold will be informed by what happens at a Cabinet meeting this evening.

    Nphet will feed advice to the Government — recommendations that will be very hard to go against for Ministers after the mistakes made in December.

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/phased-reopening-of-schools-likely-from-march-1st-taoiseach-confirms-1083170.html

    NPHET advice was phased return. "My" quotes are directly from NPHET recommendations. Do you have a link sourced to NPHET recommending JI and SI only? Its an operational decision for the department how the phased return is organised. They are doing it in 3 phases. NPHET did not indicate any disagreement


  • #1133
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    Interesting data.

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1364963301835370497


  • #1134
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    Irish government - Restrictions into 2022. Variants. Maybe outdoor dining this summer. Variants. B.1.1.7 is a like new virus. Variants.

    English government - All restrictions to lift on June 21st, 2021.
    Martin gave the proportion vaccinated by certain dates up to September. Boris is a glorious spoofer and that is a hopeful date, not a guaranteed fixed one.


  • #1135
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,244 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Honestly with data like this why is the message from Government so pessimistic . I genuinely dont get their stance

    Surely now with the end game approaching they should be thinking about how to win over some of the public. Especially Fianna Fail. This could be the end of them as a major political party

    I would presume testing will pretty much be at an end come August/September once we hit the critical mark for vaccines. Well, they will continue to test in hospitals etc but there would be no need for the daily case bonanza. That will be a great day and one I can't wait for.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1136
    mcburns07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    wadacrack wrote: »
    Interesting data.

    https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1364963301835370497

    I can't understand why this drop isn't being talked about more widely. I guess it's too positive therefore "boring" in the eyes of the media.


  • #1137
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    NPHET advice was phased return. "My" quotes are directly from NPHET recommendations. Do you have a link sourced to NPHET recommending JI and SI only? Its an operational decision for the department how the phased return is organised. They are doing it in 3 phases. NPHET did not indicate any disagreement

    Your details

    Could you be a star and point me to where I might read NPHETs recommendations directly? Annoying me now at this stage...

    Apologies for saying you're posting disingenuously by the way, perhaps it was the government/DES decisions, and the "feeding recommendations from NPHET" about the phased reopening had me assuming.


  • #1138
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Martin gave the proportion vaccinated by certain dates up to September. Boris is a glorious spoofer and that is a hopeful date, not a guaranteed fixed one.

    Yeah, he has certainly proven to be a spoofer regarding the vaccine rollout. All gone pretty much exactly to plan. :rolleyes:

    Some people on here desperately want them to fail in their plans to reopen.


  • #1139
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭plodder


    mloc123 wrote: »
    I skimmed the thread... but essentially they locked people into the slums?
    They're not even counting the dead in India. They are in a better place now, but the strategy there was Herd immunity 1.0 if you could call it a strategy.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #1140
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    Irish government - Restrictions into 2022. Variants. Maybe outdoor dining this summer. Variants. B.1.1.7 is a like new virus. Variants.

    English government - All restrictions to lift on June 21st, 2021.
    Not quite that simple. Chris Whitty in the UK has said he thinks restrictions may be needed over Winter
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-some-covid-restrictions-could-return-next-winter-chief-medical-officer-warns-12180133

    US experts are saying the same
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/2021-01-08-covid-live-updates-vaccine-news-n1253431/ncrd1253481#blogHeader

    We might need some restrictions next Winter just out of caution - I'm expecting people may be encouraged to work at home, not go to work if sick, perhaps table-service only in pubs. It shouldn't hopefully need to be lockdowns unless something goes badly wrong.


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  • #1141
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    Yeah, he has certainly proven to be a spoofer regarding the vaccine rollout. All gone pretty much exactly to plan. :rolleyes:

    Some people on here desperately want them to fail in their plans to reopen.
    Hmm, an excitable poster not reading the small print - at least 5 weeks between each phase all leading to a hoped for date on June 21 is what he said.


This discussion has been closed.
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