Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

Graham · 24-02-2021 01:33PM

timmyntc wrote: »

That was the justification coming from Govt - I think MM or similar alluded to it.

When was that, I missed it?

Ferris_Bueller · 24-02-2021 01:40PM

Irish Aris wrote: »

I wouldn't be too optimistic about this. There were quite a few caveats included and the important one for NPHET would be number of cases. At the moment the number of daily cases isn't falling fast enough. Hopefully the reduction of cases would speed up in the coming weeks, frankly though I expect level 5 until the May bank holiday.
The key thing for me in yesterday's announcement is the vaccination schedule. If they are able to stick to it and distribution doesn't become a bottleneck I can see some restrictions lifted after the May bank holiday and more after the June bank holiday.

Yeah that is my gut instinct too, as I said I don't feel overly optimistic about them going to Level 4 in April and then it could kick everything else a month down the road. A big difference, the plan above is one I feel I could accept more or less with a decent but of freedom from June onwards, but if it was going to be July before we could leave our counties that would be hard to accept.

Graham · 24-02-2021 01:40PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Im a bit lost on this, is there actual legislation underpinning this?

yes

aidoh · 24-02-2021 01:41PM

Irish Aris wrote: »

I wouldn't be too optimistic about this. There were quite a few caveats included and the important one for NPHET would be number of cases. At the moment the number of daily cases isn't falling fast enough. Hopefully the reduction of cases would speed up in the coming weeks, frankly though I expect level 5 until the May bank holiday.
The key thing for me in yesterday's announcement is the vaccination schedule. If they are able to stick to it and distribution doesn't become a bottleneck I can see some restrictions lifted after the May bank holiday and more after the June bank holiday.

Hopefully. But remember how the case numbers increased a lot in October after schools reopened. We all knew it was schools but of course there were no media questions and no acknowledgement by govt. Importantly case numbers increased but deaths didn't really.

If NPHET are going by their obsession with positive PCR results again this time around, I fear it will be late summer before anything is relaxed, given the inevitable rise in cases due to schools returning.

Schools of course absolutely need to return imo.

timmyntc · 24-02-2021 01:46PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Im a bit lost on this, is there actual legislation underpinning this?

Surprisingly, yes.
see here
The bill explicitly calls out an emergency period as being one where a 5km limit has been put in place by Minister for Health.

I'll keep looking to see if I can find that quote from govt about the benefit of said 5km restriction pretty much the eviction ban.

Irish Aris · 24-02-2021 01:48PM

aidoh wrote: »

Hopefully. But remember how the case numbers increased a lot in October after schools reopened. We all knew it was schools but of course there were no media questions and no acknowledgement by govt. Importantly case numbers increased but deaths didn't really.

If NPHET are going by their obsession with positive PCR results again this time around, I fear it will be late summer before anything is relaxed, given the inevitable rise in cases due to schools returning.

Schools of course absolutely need to return imo.

Yes, this is a fair point.
Maybe even if number of cases doesn't decrease quickly or worse increase, they won't translate to increase in hospitalisations. I expect that the vaccines will help with that. Very important IMO that there are no delays in that area.

CalamariFritti · 24-02-2021 01:57PM

I think its time to move the ' Dont be a boiling frog' thread from conspiracy theories over to current affairs/covid.

I cant believe we are actually discussing lockdown becoming normal from now on. Just discussing it normalises it. People, wake up, if we dont push back now we're fvcked!

Graham · 24-02-2021 02:00PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I cant believe we are actually discussing lockdown becoming normal from now on.

We're not

titan18 · 24-02-2021 02:01PM

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Yeah that is my gut instinct too, as I said I don't feel overly optimistic about them going to Level 4 in April and then it could kick everything else a month down the road. A big difference, the plan above is one I feel I could accept more or less with a decent but of freedom from June onwards, but if it was going to be July before we could leave our counties that would be hard to accept.

Ya, i'd be pretty surprised if gyms opened in April. It'd be nice, but can't see it. I reckon construction and some outdoor individual sports (golf etc).

Imo, construction should be opened now, and I think stuff like hairdressers, which imo, are very safe, and I doubt NPHET have data to back up that they're not, should reopen in the next few weeks.

CalamariFritti · 24-02-2021 02:03PM

Graham wrote: »

We're not

No we're not, all good, nothing to worry about. Sorry I mentioned it.

the kelt · 24-02-2021 02:04PM

timmyntc wrote: »

That was the justification coming from Govt - I think MM or similar alluded to it. The only real benefit on the 5km limit is the eviction ban - the limit itself on people's freedom to move seems to be just "collateral damage".

So we confine the entire country to 5k to stop evictions??

How the hell does that work or what, or why or what do other countries do, or........

Honestly its gone beyond farcical if this is the case, surely not??

showpony1 · 24-02-2021 02:05PM

Russman wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about next winter's restrictions, with the vaccine roll out I genuinely think by late summer they'll be minimal anyway.

Almost guaranteed we won't be allowed have our most vulnerable people get sick due to catching a cold/flu etc. next winter after Vaccines are already rolled out.

"We pulled together" to keep vulnerable people safe of COVID-19, why not everything else now? NPHET will have a field day.

Graham · 24-02-2021 02:08PM

the kelt wrote: »

So we confine the entire country to 5k to stop evictions??

I don't think that was ever presented as a major consideration for continuing the 5km restrictions.

showpony1 · 24-02-2021 02:15PM

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

L
Level 5 for March and until after Easter.

Level 4 - April 5th: Gyms, outdoor dining, county wide travel, sports training up to 15 people.

Level 3 - May 5th (just after BH weekend): restricted indoor dining, hotels, retail.

Level 2 - early June (prob after BH weekend): bars & restaurants indoors with restrictions, nationwide travel, allowed visit people again.

Level 1 - early July: most things reopened with restrictions still in place.

I think Gyms are Level 3 - most people won't have picked up a weight from New years Eve until May 2021.

rob316 · 24-02-2021 02:15PM

How hard is it to say when the R rate is X or the incident rate is X, shops can open or you can go get a haircut?

We are all at absolute breaking point, they say they realize the mental strain on the population but they really don't. On a personal note I was delighted to see special schools will go back full time next week but there was nothing in yesterdays announcement for anyone else.

They could of atleast reintroduced click and collect shopping from the 5th

Silentcorner · 24-02-2021 02:16PM

Our leaders are Micheal Martin, Leo Varadkar, Stephen Donnelly and Tony Houlihan, the only non elected figure and the most powerful of the four, whose only policy is severe lock down level 5, even after a year of data....giving us one of the most severe lock downs on the planet, an inhumane policy that has no science underpinning it, that comes with a massive price tag both economically and socially!!!

And we still have no plan whatsoever!

And people on here can bring themselves to justify it....if I was a young fella I'd be gone like a flash!

24-02-2021 02:18PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I think its time to move the ' Dont be a boiling frog' thread from conspiracy theories over to current affairs/covid.

I cant believe we are actually discussing lockdown becoming normal from now on. Just discussing it normalises it. People, wake up, if we dont push back now we're fvcked!

Much as I believe that this level of restriction is ineffective and incompatible with liberal society, I don't think there is that much long-term concern. Boris made huge blunders earlier in this whole thing and the vaccinations and route out of lockdown are the redemptions he's depending on to keep his position. The EU will go to any measure to make sure the UK isn't seen to be doing better than them, post-Brexit, so a UK economy roaring back to life is going to have a knock-on effect on the EU. And if all else fails, the CTA and reciprocal agreements exist between Ireland and the UK, so it's a short plane ride or drive to "escape" if things get really out of hand. Even the shower we have in charge now would want to avoid becoming a net emigration country again.

24-02-2021 02:21PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Our leaders are Micheal Martin, Leo Varadkar, Stephen Donnelly and Tony Houlihan, the only non elected figure and the most powerful of the four, whose only policy is severe lock down level 5, even after a year of data.

They couldn't lead a horse to water, so inept they are.

No leadership, just doing the easiest and safest thing - "stay locked up".

mohawk · 24-02-2021 02:27PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't get this, my folks have been out for walks most days unless it's lashing rain, my dad is 70. It's not like many people that age go to gyms anyway, so what's stopping older people from getting out for a bit of exercise?
Not having the gym sucks but local parks are packed with joggers etc where I live anyway.

Fear. There is a percentage of older people that appear to believe that as soon as you open your front door and go outside Covid is waiting for you. Many other older people realise that once your outside your risk of catching Covid is dramatically reduced compared to being inside.
For some older people they have radio on all day and so are probably over-consuming Covid news.

KrustyUCC · 24-02-2021 02:27PM

batman_oh wrote: »

Just had a look through the new 'plan' and it seems that inter county travel is not permitted until we hit level 2 - as opposed to Level 3 last summer (Dublin never made 2 as far as I know).
Seeing as they have level 5 until 5th April with very gradual easing after that, it's going to be a long time before that kicks in. Absolute shambles of a government.

Looks like its 6 months + of not seeing a partner in another county if the government and NPHET had their way

Totally unrealistic expectation from the government and NPHET

I can't see couples following that plan even with the threat of fines

RGS · 24-02-2021 02:30PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

well that's not entirely true - the government lifted the restrictions pre=xmas - against all health advice and it's being done to death - that it was the wrong move at that time. What's your view on that - where they right to open up and go against the health advice then?

Mistakes were made at Christmas, it wasn't against all health advise, NPHET suggested either household or hospitality, the government decided on both, but the genesis of the problem goes back to October when Tony Holohan returned early from compassionate leave and pushed us into level 5. The rest of NPHET were happy to stay in level 3.

What happen was 9 weeks of demand was thrown into 3 weeks--it was also stated we were going into lockdown in January when December was opened.

That is the problem with lockdowns--you create a demand for a service and when it opens people will engage with that service.

UsBus · 24-02-2021 02:31PM

the kelt wrote: »

So we confine the entire country to 5k to stop evictions??

How the hell does that work or what, or why or what do other countries do, or........

Honestly its gone beyond farcical if this is the case, surely not??

From what I can see, Housing Minister Darragh O'Brien drafted the bill last year for evictions to be linked to the 5k restriction. There doesn't seem to have been much opportunity for opposition to make amendments to this at the time.
It is truly bonkers that this was allowed go through with no-one asking what would happen with a long term need to prevent eviction. This minister should be torn apart over this but he seems to be getting a free ride on it.

rob316 · 24-02-2021 02:33PM

Dangerous terminology from Martin yesterday, calling the new strain, essentially a "new virus".

showpony1 · 24-02-2021 02:34PM

I saw the Gardai arrested someone who was getting the haircut in Balbriggan along with the owner, how long is she facing for getting a haircut?

Multipass · 24-02-2021 02:34PM

Klonker wrote: »

Why is Ireland the special case in Europe when it comes to reopening? Why when we have one of the best trends on infection, one of the lowest rates of infection, one of the youngest populations, one of the most efficient vaccination rates so far that we have by far, not in any way close to anyone else, the slowest reopening in the EU from a position when we already have the tightest restrictions? It makes no sense at all.

And what makes even less sense is that none of this is questioned at all by our media or journalists. All they seem to be interesting in is the red herring that is variants and mandatory quarentining.

Because as a nation we are gripped by a terrible case of health anxiety. We need counselling.

normanoffside · 24-02-2021 02:39PM

RGS wrote: »

Mistakes were made at Christmas, it wasn't against all health advise, NPHET suggested either household or hospitality, the government decided on both, but the genesis of the problem goes back to October when Tony Holohan returned early from compassionate leave and pushed us into level 5. The rest of NPHET were happy to stay in level 3.

What actually happened was worse: Most of the country was in level 2 with just Dublin and (Donegal?) in level 3.

NPHET saw no need to put the whole country in level 3 but just a few days after saying that, Tony came back and demanded the whole country be put into level 5.
As a compromise the whole country was put into 3 for a few weeks before being moved to 5.

The benefits of level 3 were already seen to be working just as we went into 5 (it hadn't been given time to work) but Tony said this was down to 'Anticipatory behaviour' and that people were acting like level 5 even though they were in 3.
Basically he couldn't be seen to be wrong and needed to get credit for the drop in numbers.

mohawk · 24-02-2021 02:40PM

showpony1 wrote: »

Almost guaranteed we won't be allowed have our most vulnerable people get sick due to catching a cold/flu etc. next winter after Vaccines are already rolled out.

"We pulled together" to keep vulnerable people safe of COVID-19, why not everything else now? NPHET will have a field day.

I am not sure about this to be honest. There are studies that suggest catching colds and flus keep our immune systems primed. (I know we all hate getting them). Protecting the population from catching Colds and Flu could have massive unintended consequences.
An example of an unintended consequence is Allergies. They have risen dramatically in the developed world in last couple decades. There are multiple reasons for this. It is believed one reason is that our immune systems don’t have to work as hard anymore as we aren’t exposed to parasites like we used to be.

harr · 24-02-2021 02:41PM

showpony1 wrote: »

I saw the Gardai arrested someone who was getting the haircut in Balbriggan along with the owner, how long is she facing for getting a haircut?

When you have the likes of Ben Gilroy and Dee Wall showing up and organising protests it leaves the guards with very little option. It stupid for her to get involved with crowd and probably using her to further the anti vac and anti lockdown nonsense they spout.
I am all for letting certain business open but this was only going to end one way.

showpony1 · 24-02-2021 02:43PM

mohawk wrote: »

I am not sure about this to be honest. There are studies that suggest catching colds and flus keep our immune systems primed. (I know we all hate getting them). Protecting the population from catching Colds and Flu could have massive unintended consequences.
An example of an unintended consequence is Allergies. They have risen dramatically in the developed world in last couple decades. There are multiple reasons for this. It is believed one reason is that our immune systems don’t have to work as hard anymore as we aren’t exposed to parasites like we used to be.

probably a variant with "flu like symptoms" & "our hospitals are overwhelmed" so restrictions in winter are necessary rather than saying can't catch a cold, but hopefully proved wrong.

24-02-2021 02:45PM

Is there any fundraiser for the woman who opened her salon, does anyone know?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings