Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

22-02-2021 03:35PM

pjohnson wrote: »

ICYMI

https://twitter.com/onthewaycafeIRL/status/1344369157584916480

The cafe is rightly blaming those responsible for their business closing. I'm not sure it suits the agenda of those trying use it as an example tbh.

People that ignore restrictions caused the lockdowns that killed the business. Anyone who spouts on about "ignore restrictions" and now try to "sympathise/support" with the workers is hilarious.

That tweet is from December 30th. So your argument is that the increase in numbers at that time was nothing to do with the lowering of restrictions to level 3 or the massively increased transmissibility of the UK variant, but was entirely down to people breaking restrictions?

Seems unlikely.

robbiezero · 22-02-2021 03:36PM

pjohnson wrote: »

ICYMI

https://twitter.com/onthewaycafeIRL/status/1344369157584916480

The cafe is rightly blaming those responsible for their business closing. I'm not sure it suits the agenda of those trying use it as an example tbh.

People that ignore restrictions caused the lockdowns that killed the business. Anyone who spouts on about "ignore restrictions" and now try to "sympathise/support" with the workers is hilarious.

Link?

Hellrazer · 22-02-2021 03:40PM

irishguy wrote:

I hear you and agree...It seems now though there is a switch to getting 100% vaccinated or maybe I am misinterpreting things..

I think this is exactly whats wrong. 100% vaccinations will never happen but our beloved leaders will keep us locked down until we achieve close to 100% - all the while other countries will open up once their vulnerable are vaccinated.

..I thought once that 700K were vaccinated we could open up a bit...I am not talking nightclubs, big crowds, etc but level 3 with maybe a few tweaks...

You mean something sensible - with our 3 muppets of the apocalypse??
Its never going to happen.

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 03:46PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The vagueness of numbers has been there from the start. I never knew Ireland had 11,000 beds, all I was ever told by our media was we couldn't overhwelm the beds we had.

n.

To add to this, here is what gets my goat.

In the middle of winter, when hospitals are typically at their busiest capacity wise, we just about managed with beds, despite some days 8000, 6000, 5000 cases.

These cases happened before Ireland had any serious amount of vaccines out there.

Hospitals would be at their quietest, capacity wise, in April, May, June, July.

With significant numbers vaccinated by then, 1 million per month from April covered by at least one vaccine, with 600K people at least covered by one jab by April 1st all going well we will never, by the summer, have a situation of large amounts of vulnerable people testing positive and needing a bed. 80 percent plus of younger people barely even know they have this virus.

Yet we are told we might have to keep living largely like this until September, regardless?

Am I a bit slow or does this make absolutely no sense to anybody else?

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 03:48PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

I wish I was lying when I said I saw this on a particular regional section of boards the other day. Someone even suggesting that nobody should go to parks because the air out your back garden is the same.

Sure Mountjoy has a rec yard, a canteen, a gym and a supply of home made hooch. Who needs hill walks, restaurants, gyms and pubs?

everlast75 · 22-02-2021 03:48PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

It's actually very simple, the further you remove yourself from mainstream media (which hasn't produced one expert that anyone can name who has been spot on or even right more often than not since this began) the less inclined you have succumb to the hysteria.

The numbers are telling us who is vulnerable.
The people we know who have had Covid are telling us what the virus is like
The case numbers are like a whip, used as a threat to punish us all if we don't behave.

The media is being used to pump us full of fear, for a mild but unpleasant virus!

To what end exactly.

Can you explain to me why it is in FF/FG interests to keep people locked down while the economy is in severe difficulty?

If you are saying they are lying, what is their motive?

I cannot see it. I genuinely am interested in this view point?

22-02-2021 03:48PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

I think this is exactly whats wrong. 100% vaccinations will never happen but our beloved leaders will keep us locked down until we achieve close to 100% - all the while other countries will open up once their vulnerable are vaccinated.

You mean something sensible - with our 3 muppets of the apocalypse??
Its never going to happen.

This has not been said by anyone. If you are going to get angry, get angry at something that is real, not fantasy

timmyntc · 22-02-2021 03:48PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

To add to this, here is what gets my goat.

In the middle of winter, when hospitals are typically at their busiest capacity wise, we just about managed with beds, despite some days 8000, 6000, 5000 cases.

These cases happened before Ireland had any serious amount of vaccines out there.

Hospitals would be at their quietest, capacity wise, in April, May, June, July.

With significant numbers vaccinated by then, 1 million per month from April covered by at least one vaccine, with 600K people at least covered by one jab by April 1st all going well we will never, by the summer, have a situation of large amounts of vulnerable people testing positive and needing a bed. 80 percent plus of younger people barely even know they have this virus.

Yet we are told we might have to keep living largely like this until September, regardless?

Am I a bit slow or does this make absolutely no sense to anybody else?

Its become very clear that the narrative is changing whenever it suits them - we flattened the curve several times, we stoppped our hospitals getting overwhelmed and then some. But yet as you say, situations where we could not possibly come close to capacity in hospitals, NPHET & Govt "played it safe" - decimating our economy in the process.

Silentcorner · 22-02-2021 03:53PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

To add to this, here is what gets my goat.

In the middle of winter, when hospitals are typically at their busiest capacity wise, we just about managed with beds, despite some days 8000, 6000, 5000 cases.

These cases happened before Ireland had any serious amount of vaccines out there.

Hospitals would be at their quietest, capacity wise, in April, May, June, July.

With significant numbers vaccinated by then, 1 million per month from April covered by at least one vaccine, with 600K people at least covered by one jab by April 1st all going well we will never, by the summer, have a situation of large amounts of vulnerable people testing positive and needing a bed. 80 percent plus of younger people barely even know they have this virus.

Yet we are told we might have to keep living largely like this until September, regardless?

Am I a bit slow or does this make absolutely no sense to anybody else?

We were only testing people with symptoms last Jan,so the infections were much higher than 8,000/6,000 etc...we get more immunity every time there is a surge, as well as with vaccines.

The bed capacity will be 5% Covid patients (and that is being generous) between mid March and next winter.

But it is the variants that are driving the fear now, the same variants the Government hasn't bothered to protect us from.

Hellrazer · 22-02-2021 03:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This has not been said by anyone. If you are going to get angry, get angry at something that is real, not fantasy

I never said it was said by anyone - if it was I would have linked to a quote - however this government has shown us they havent a clue what they are at and will change direction at a whim so theres no fantasy there.

And what Ive suggested is completely possible with these incompetent fools.

All Im saying is watch this space.

22-02-2021 03:56PM

everlast75 wrote: »

To what end exactly.

Can you explain to me why it is in FF/FG interests to keep people locked down while the economy is in severe difficulty?

If you are saying they are lying, what is their motive?

I cannot see it. I genuinely am interested in this view point?

There doesn't need to be some nefarious conspiracy going on for a government to erroneously continue these restrictions. It could be as simple as sunk cost fallacy, or the related plan continuation bias.

doublejobbing 2 · 22-02-2021 03:56PM

everlast75 wrote: »

To what end exactly.

Can you explain to me why it is in FF/FG interests to keep people locked down while the economy is in severe difficulty?

If you are saying they are lying, what is their motive?

I cannot see it. I genuinely am interested in this view point?

The Green Party already tried to bring in reduced speed limits in Dublin under the guise of more pedestrians and cyclists are out walking/ keeping fit with less jobs to go to. They have also re designed roads to be less car friendly.

Tony Holohan is on record from years ago as seeking to permanently change Irish society's relationship with the pub.

Accelerating the end of cash in favour of plastic. Older people have always been more card averse, what better way to encourage them than with hyperbolic nonsense suggesting handling change could literally kill you.

Government can say failues of X Y and Z 10 years from now are a hangover from the economic jolt of the Covid era. Social housing output down? Covid interruption. Tax take down? Covid.

Leo the great manipulator will no doubt be there in 4 years come election time "certainly I was of the personal opinion at Christmas 2020 that the borders should be closed, unfortunately I was over ruled.....". Talk your coalition partners into overseeing a mess, then use it to your advantage.

Every country in the world has unpopular projects that can be brought in under the guise of Covid.

And certain other little nerds in government who I won't name probably just don't like the idea of young people out drinking and having fun. The child who would remind the teacher when they forgot to give homework.

Penfailed · 22-02-2021 04:01PM

Lundstram wrote: »

They’ve been treated like second class citizens for a year now and you come on here saying “tough sh1t”.

Charming.

Except that's not what was said.

22-02-2021 04:04PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

I never said it was said by anyone - if it was I would have linked to a quote - however this government has shown us they havent a clue what they are at and will change direction at a whim so theres no fantasy there.

And what Ive suggested is completely possible with these incompetent fools.

All Im saying is watch this space.

Sound, You can sit watching space, when I am in a Beer Garden in July

Silentcorner · 22-02-2021 04:07PM

everlast75 wrote: »

To what end exactly.

Can you explain to me why it is in FF/FG interests to keep people locked down while the economy is in severe difficulty?

If you are saying they are lying, what is their motive?

I cannot see it. I genuinely am interested in this view point?

I honestly don't know, I am resisting as best I can the notion of a more sinister motive or element.

In our case, it is more to do with the unfortunate timing of all this, I have said it before.

WE have trapped ourselves in the worst kind of decision making process at the worst time on account of the hysterical media cycle (the news cycle is perpetually hysterical)...

We have very weak leaders (a product of our parochial political system) in Martin and Varadkar, we never have had great leaders but these two have weak political support within their own parties and with the electorate.

We have always had a very dysfunctional Health System, NPHET are a product of that system.

We gave Tony Houlihan, a man who has struggled to behave in an appropriate manner, who thinks nothing of undermining the Government he works for publically....I'm willing to suggest he loves the power more than lockdowns but he can't think beyond severe restrictions, that much is clear.

The media had us all hysterical about Brexit before Covid, and all that happened was a few of us had to wait a bit longer for our online orders.

The politicians are so weak they are responding to the fear pumped into the population by the media industry that survives on hysteria and they think this is enough...the media turned on Varadkar back in Oct when Houlihan undermined everyone, he was too weak to chance taking on Houlihan again.

Again, because this is a new virus, restrictions are completely justified, but we have gone way past that and are creating much bigger issues for ourselves as a consequence.

22-02-2021 04:07PM

everlast75 wrote: »

To what end exactly.

Can you explain to me why it is in FF/FG interests to keep people locked down while the economy is in severe difficulty?

If you are saying they are lying, what is their motive?

I cannot see it. I genuinely am interested in this view point?

I have to be careful here, as promised to the mods.

I believe they're taking directives from the EU on this. It seems the EU, UN etc are intent on 70-80%+ vaccination figures across the board. I've said since last year we'll likely be under lockdown and restrictions until that point (including due to rising case numbers etc).

I believe this has already been decided as the best/only way out of the pandemic, and we simply won't reopen properly until those vaccination figures have been reached. You could argue lockdowns etc will only facilitate those required figures as people are desperate for a return to old.

I'm *not at all* saying there's anything nefarious behind this decision, but I don't think we'll see any return to near normal until we have reached 70-80% vaccination, regardless of economic damage.

Whatsisname · 22-02-2021 04:07PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Sure Mountjoy has a rec yard, a canteen, a gym and a supply of home made hooch. Who needs hill walks, restaurants, gyms and pubs?

This reminds me of this story the other day :pac:

Man hands himself in as he'd rather be in jail than spend any longer with people at home during lockdown. The suspect said he wanted to go prison to get some "peace and quiet" from those he shares his home with.

Hellrazer · 22-02-2021 04:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sound, You can sit watching space, when I am in a Beer Garden in July

Ill be with you - they will give us a bone or two to keep the masses quiet.But our economy wont be fully open until 2022.

22-02-2021 04:10PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you sell non essential services to the public you are at the mercy of consumer confidence.

Consumer confidence is irrelevant when the business is prevented from opening by government diktat.

FintanMcluskey · 22-02-2021 04:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sound, You can sit watching space, when I am in a Beer Garden in July

It likely won’t be in Dublin or Kildare though

Penfailed · 22-02-2021 04:16PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

For about 80% of the last 12 months, Covid patients have occupied about 400 of our 11,000 beds

What about the 10,600 beds not occupied by Covid patients? Do you think they are empty?

Penfailed · 22-02-2021 04:20PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

You'll never guess who comes in 2nd!!!

Yet we are constantly told in this thread that we have had the longest, harshest lockdown in the world. The fact that the UK are supposed to have a harsher lockdown surprises me considering their death figures are one of the worst in the world.

22-02-2021 04:20PM

Penfailed wrote: »

What about the 10,400 beds not occupied by Covid patients? Do you think they are empty?

11,000-400=10,600.

In any case, we're a year in, billions spent, continuous warnings about spikes and variants for a full twelve months, massive overestimates of future case numbers, and the government hasn't been able to increase bed capacity by the requisite 3.6% it would take to handle the biggest challenge so far?

Seems like a failure.

Silentcorner · 22-02-2021 04:22PM

Penfailed wrote: »

What about the 10,400 beds not occupied by Covid patients? Do you think they are empty?

Ah come on...

We don't lock down the country to preserve our hospital beds for anything else.

everlast75 · 22-02-2021 04:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There doesn't need to be some nefarious conspiracy going on for a government to erroneously continue these restrictions. It could be as simple as sunk cost fallacy, or the related plan continuation bias.

Are you saying that they are content to proceed with lockdowns, even though they see the economic damage, even though they see the political damage?

Nope. I cannot see that.

It would make more sense to me that they would re-open if they could. It would be the more popular decision and if this lockdown was unnecessary, they would be proved right to re-open and get a huge bump in popularity.

22-02-2021 04:23PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The Green Party already tried to bring in reduced speed limits in Dublin under the guise of more pedestrians and cyclists are out walking/ keeping fit with less jobs to go to. They have also re designed roads to be less car friendly.

Tony Holohan is on record from years ago as seeking to permanently change Irish society's relationship with the pub.

Accelerating the end of cash in favour of plastic. Older people have always been more card averse, what better way to encourage them than with hyperbolic nonsense suggesting handling change could literally kill you.

Government can say failues of X Y and Z 10 years from now are a hangover from the economic jolt of the Covid era. Social housing output down? Covid interruption. Tax take down? Covid.

Leo the great manipulator will no doubt be there in 4 years come election time "certainly I was of the personal opinion at Christmas 2020 that the borders should be closed, unfortunately I was over ruled.....". Talk your coalition partners into overseeing a mess, then use it to your advantage.

Every country in the world has unpopular projects that can be brought in under the guise of Covid.

And certain other little nerds in government who I won't name probably just don't like the idea of young people out drinking and having fun. The child who would remind the teacher when they forgot to give homework.

The aul' "never let a crisis go to waste".

22-02-2021 04:26PM

everlast75 wrote: »

Are you saying that they are content to proceed with lockdowns, even though they see the economic damage, even though they see the political damage?

That's sort of the very definition of the well-researched psychological phenomenon of sunk cost fallacies.

irishguy1983 · 22-02-2021 04:27PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This has not been said by anyone. If you are going to get angry, get angry at something that is real, not fantasy

Fair enough...So does anyone know what % of population they want vaccinated before say level 3? Like surely they will have 50% and more done by end of May? Is that not enough?!

I am not being smart here now - I am just trying to do the maths on this and things don’t seem to be quite adding up...

Silentcorner · 22-02-2021 04:29PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Yet we are constantly told in this thread that we have had the longest, harshest lockdown in the world. The fact that the UK are supposed to have a harsher lockdown surprises me considering their death figures are one of the worst in the world.

Funny enough, the UK who aren't blessed with impressive leadership also at the moment have locked down as much as we have....they succumb to the public pressure caused by what we were witnessing in the hysterical news cycle at the time...

They have a healthier health system than we do, who had prepared for a pandemic (they had prepared for a much more severe pandemic) for over 10 years, nowhere in it did they suggest lock downs but the leadership caved to public pressure.

I think media are the most culpable, along with the public who can't seem to ween themselves off the hysteria news cycles!

If Britain did have the most severe lockdown, then why were they one of the outliers in the world in excess deaths outside of the over 70s demographic?

everlast75 · 22-02-2021 04:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's sort of the very definition of the well-researched psychological phenomenon of sunk cost fallacies.

I think the famous "self preservation" instinct of politicians is far more likely to over ride any such fallacy.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings