When will it all end?

the kelt · 21-02-2021 10:02AM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I don't think it's wrong to ask what level of the population needs to be vaccinated until things are opened up to a normal/near normal degree. A bit of transparency and maybe actually giving the public a target number might improve the mood and mental health of people?

Israel is opening up things on the back of 50% vaccinated but shhh, don’t be asking for dates, targets or transparency or anything of the sort and here you can’t be giving the population a ray of hope these days, something to look forward to, a light at the end of the tunnel.

Sure according to posters on here who wants that?

the kelt · 21-02-2021 10:13AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course I can believe this. RTÉ ran a news item which implied that it was fine to go off hiking whenever it suited you. This type of hypocrisy sets a very bad example and health care workers are exactly the people that will suffer if everyone acts in a selfish manner. Health workers excusing themselves is not different than TDs doing so, or Gardaí cancelling their own speeding tickets.

Most people making a good effort, but this lockdown is being kept going by people acting the maggot.

And of course most on this thread, and those giving out about this investigation do not give a damn about health workers as they oppose any effort to keep Covid numbers down.

Wait...

You and your thanker think it’s a good thing that this is being investigated.

The country might get beyond this virus but my god what have we become??

mcsean2163 · 21-02-2021 10:40AM

Strumms wrote: »

I’m no fan of either... but Labour don’t have the talent, SF certainly don’t have the talent and are still an untrustworthy terrorist mouthpiece who play up with consistency to their narrow minded support base...have defended and facilitated both criminals and terrorists to the hilt and without hesitation and will continue to actively do so, not just terrorists but criminals and wider criminality too.... prioritized the needs and wants of ‘their’ few ahead of the needs and greater wants of society and the good of the nation... haven’t changed and not going to change now, their legacy is clear.... you’d need your brain drained if you thought they were, Sinn Fein... Jesus haha... the lot of them couldn’t come up with an answer in a pub quiz let alone the answers to the situation we are in now.

FF / FG whilst not a perfect record as regards their handling of covid are far more trustworthy than those absolutely dreadful shinners...

I gave SF number 3 last election. First time ever that I put them down. I spoke for a while with a representative and he was civil and decent AND listened AND answered m. In contrast the green guy was obnoxious and I've voted green before. FF guy was nice too in local elections, I don't think I'd ever vote FF in general.

I really think SF have turned a corner and I'm not the only one. The current triumvirate just cannot seem to tackle housing and child disability care

El_Duderino 09 · 21-02-2021 10:56AM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Yes

Just any old number that they don’t even intend to stick to would make you happier?

Why?

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 11:12AM

gozunda wrote: »

Seriously? From day 1 you've been against any restrictions and generally against any public health advice issued.

So is it any surprise you haven't changed your opinion and despite 4000 deaths and over 200000 cases - you're still pushing the same rubbish even with Ireland winning the accolade of having the highest rate of covid infection in the world in January. For which we're still paying the penalty...

1st part in bold - thank you. that is correct. I have genuinely been against majority of restrictions trying to control a virus that is clearly uncontrollable even in hospitals where every precaution is taken. Its called common sense. But I suppose its hard to have any when you are bombarded with "stay at home save lives" "clap for our heroes" rubbish. But I did.

2nd part in bold - you forgot to mention the part where less people in 2020 died than in 2019 in Ireland and many other countries. I Am really not sure why, in the light of this, you are talking about cases and covid deaths? What has that got to do with anything? Do you want to tell me road deaths also while at it? Irrelevant nonsense.

PS with so many cases and deaths with positive PCR tests you've mentioned one would think that lockdown really doesnt do much.. you are supporting my point. Thank you again.

beauf · 21-02-2021 11:19AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What treatments were they prescribed for Covid before ending up in hospital?

I didn't say they had Covid.

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 11:21AM

To keep the spirits up do watch below for 10 - 20 mins. There are very beautiful things in this world, things you need to see, at least once.

PS bloody restaurants with outdoor seating... :pac:

21-02-2021 11:35AM

How does looking at a video of Venice help keep spirits up???

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 11:38AM

bubblypop wrote: »

How does looking at a video of Venice help keep spirits up???

You have something to look forward to. Other than walks within 5 km and cutting your own hair for next few months (years?).

Assuming M Martin is held unaccountable ofcourse.

beauf · 21-02-2021 11:41AM

GazzaL wrote: »

A "technical elimination strategy" is a piece of fantasy. You can still contract COVID after being vaccinated. If we vaccinate 100% of the population, COVID will still circulate in Ireland. COVID is here to stay. We have to live with COVID along with every other illness out there.

If you could focus your technical elimination strategy on cancer research which kills at least 3 times as many people in Ireland compared to COVID, that would be a more productive use of your time and wouldn't impinge on anyone's personal freedoms.

This isn't about deaths. It's about not overloading the system with sick people. The majority of those people won't die but enough of them will be sick enough so they won't be able to work. When enough people call in sick where ever they work it will have to shut down. It's a cascading failure.

The counter to this (in this case) is herd immunity (which hasn't worked on is own) or vaccination. When enough people are vaccinated then the % of sick people should fall to a manageable level.

When people only focus on death rate, they don't understand the issue.

opinionated3 · 21-02-2021 11:41AM

Strumms wrote: »

So no restrictions work better ? If level 5 turns into a shîtshow.. say 9000 cases a day, what would 4 have done ? Worse again... much worse... people just need to fuçkin sort themselves out.. get back to being team players in sorting this shïtshow and forget about their needy gumpy grumpy whims, it’s a fûckin pandemic, restrictions aren’t in place for the craic.

Team players?? What team is this? In case you haven't noticed we were never all in this together. That was just a stupid tag line. When you divide society by deciding who can earn a living and who can't, you've lost straightaway.

dalyboy · 21-02-2021 11:45AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

To keep the spirits up do watch below for 10 - 20 mins. There are very beautiful things in this world, things you need to see, at least once.

PS bloody restaurants with outdoor seating... :pac:

What I really don’t get is that Ireland clearly is suffering from a masked phantom version of this deadly disease.

How is it that in Ireland outdoor seated restaurants/cafes are considered so lethal as to merit their shutting (till June by all accounts in recent announcements FFS)

What planet are these dumbbells living on ???

There needs to be a separate thread on boards illustrating how other countries are handling this so called pandemic with constant streaming of other cities. It’s important for compare and contrast.

I remember looking at videos last June of hotels in Disney Paris. Full swing operations with swimming pools , bars open and people with smiles on their faces. While we were letting NPHET fear porn brainwash us here.
Despicable Ireland nonsense country

beauf · 21-02-2021 11:47AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

.... I have genuinely been against majority of restrictions trying to control a virus that is clearly uncontrollable even in hospitals where every precaution is taken. ...

I dunno about that. I personally know a good few people who have been in hospital during the last year who didn't get Covid. So it's not uncontrollable. Again if it keeps the % low enough to be manageable then it has worked. There was a time many medical places were running out of staff due to sickness and having to isolate. That seems to returned to a manageable level.

beauf · 21-02-2021 11:51AM

opinionated3 wrote: »

Team players?? What team is this? In case you haven't noticed we were never all in this together. That was just a stupid tag line. When you divide society by deciding who can earn a living and who can't, you've lost straightaway.

Society has always been divided. You just didn't notice it before.

ujjjjjjjjj · 21-02-2021 11:53AM

robbiezero wrote: »

How will health care workers suffer from people hiking?

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

1st part in bold - thank you. that is correct. I have genuinely been against majority of restrictions trying to control a virus that is clearly uncontrollable even in hospitals where every precaution is taken. Its called common sense. But I suppose its hard to have any when you are bombarded with "stay at home save lives" "clap for our heroes" rubbish. But I did.

2nd part in bold - you forgot to mention the part where less people in 2020 died than in 2019 in Ireland and many other countries. I Am really not sure why, in the light of this, you are talking about cases and covid deaths? What has that got to do with anything? Do you want to tell me road deaths also while at it? Irrelevant nonsense.

PS with so many cases and deaths with positive PCR tests you've mentioned one would think that lockdown really doesnt do much.. you are supporting my point. Thank you again.

Have also been against all legal restrictions since day one. No issue at all with general health advice being given but legally enforced restrictions are a step across the Rubicon and have caused phenomenal damage. Entirely supportive of people's personal decisions to isolate, restrict movements etc as they see fit but entirely opposed to any sort of legal enforcement or enforced shutdowns.

A year into this it is clearer now than ever that we panicked a year ago and no one can admit it. The average age of death from this virus is still in the mid 80's, it has virtually no impact on children and young people and a tiny risk to the middle aged. Yes certain vulnerable groups and the old and frail are a significant concern but no more so than a strong flu variant outbreak like those we saw in the 1950's and 1960's. By all means put some supports in place for these groups but no legal restrictions.

Moving to where we are now it is clear we have been in lockdown and nothing I say will change that but moving forward we can draw a line in the sand and day once the over 65's and medically vulnerable are vaccinated we open up fully. If you want to be hyper cautious extend this to the over 50's like O'Leary suggested.

beauf · 21-02-2021 11:58AM

dalyboy wrote: »

What I really don’t get is that Ireland clearly is suffering from a masked phantom version of this deadly disease.

How is it that in Ireland outdoor seated restaurants/cafes are considered so lethal as to merit their shutting (till June by all accounts in recent announcements FFS)

What planet are these dumbbells living on ???

....

Maybe you'd prefer a curfew?

https://en.parisinfo.com/practical-paris/info/guides/info-disruption-paris

The reason is different in different countries and States in the US is the Climate and Society is different. If a place is warm and people mostly socialise out side it will have an effect on transmission rates.

In Ireland we have never been good at following rules and low enforcement. That's going to bite us in this scenario. So people here won't limit thenselves to just eating outside and sticking to the rules.

beauf · 21-02-2021 12:03PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

... The average age of death from this virus is still in the mid 80's, it has virtually no impact on children and young people and a tiny risk to the middle aged. Yes certain vulnerable groups and the old and frail are a significant concern but no more so than a strong flu variant outbreak like those we saw in the 1950's and 1960's. .....

It's not about deaths. It's about not overloading the system. It's a lot worse in its impact than those flu's.

GazzaL · 21-02-2021 12:05PM

beauf wrote: »

It's not about deaths. It's about not overloading the system. It's a lot worse in its impact than those flu's.

It gets overloaded every year, without fail. We don't shut the whole country down because of it. What have the Government, HSE and NPHET done to address this in the last 12 months? **** all.

bucketybuck · 21-02-2021 12:09PM

beauf wrote: »

I dunno about that. I personally know a good few people who have been in hospital during the last year who didn't get Covid. So it's not uncontrollable.

I know people who slept in the same bed as somebody with covid and didn't catch it.

Thinking we have any control over this virus is just arrogance.

CalamariFritti · 21-02-2021 12:10PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

To keep the spirits up do watch below for 10 - 20 mins. There are very beautiful things in this world, things you need to see, at least once.

PS bloody restaurants with outdoor seating... :pac:

Jesus, Venice looks absolutely gorgeous without the stampedes.

dalyboy · 21-02-2021 12:16PM

beauf wrote: »

Maybe you'd prefer a curfew?

https://en.parisinfo.com/practical-paris/info/guides/info-disruption-paris

The reason is different in different countries and States in the US is the Climate and Society is different. If a place is warm and people mostly socialise out side it will have an effect on transmission rates.

In Ireland we have never been good at following rules and low enforcement. That's going to bite us in this scenario. So people here won't limit thenselves to just eating outside and sticking to the rules.

Difference is I’d bet the farm Paris will be open in 5-6 weeks when the numbers reflect sensible commercial reopening. We will follow our busted economic action of remaining closed even when these countries demonstrate that their reopening is NOT contributing to additional infections. “Irish science”

Ps
I’d gladly sit outside today 13 degrees in February. Sadly MM has deemed it hazardous.

ujjjjjjjjj · 21-02-2021 12:18PM

beauf wrote: »

It's not about deaths. It's about not overloading the system. It's a lot worse in its impact than those flu's.

I think you need to read some history and gain a perspective on the 1950's and 1960's flu outbreaks.

The state of the Irish health system and years of chronic mismanagement, low numbers of ICU beds, shortage of staff etc etc is the cause of the strain. Every winter we have it and year after year goes by with no change. If the sole reason as you suggest for these extended lockdowns is to not overload the system the cause of this overloading is years of mismanagement. That is the real story here.

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 12:19PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Difference is I’d bet the farm Paris will be open in 5-6 weeks when the numbers reflect sensible commercial reopening. We will follow our busted economic action of remaining closed even when these countries demonstrate that their reopening is NOT contributing to additional infections. “Irish science”

Ps
I’d gladly sit outside today 13 degrees in February. Sadly MM has deemed it hazardous.

Already re opening. Schools opened. Hairdressers to open 1 March onward, other businesses to follow.

Issue with Ireland is that our finance minister is wet blanket that just pretty much borrows 24 / 7. Unfortunately a lot of people got dumber in 2020 and dont realize the significance of this. This time 12 or 18 months ago HSE staff will be getting a paycut and or increase to pension levy, "clapping for the heroes" will seem like some sort of a twisted joke.

beauf · 21-02-2021 12:21PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

I think you need to read some history and gain a perspective on the 1950's and 1960's flu outbreaks.

The state of the Irish health system and years of chronic mismanagement, low numbers of ICU beds, shortage of staff etc etc is the cause of the strain. Every winter we have it and year after year goes by with no change. If the sole reason as you suggest for these extended lockdowns is to not overload the system the cause of this overloading is years of mismanagement. That is the real story here.

They didn't have the same transmission rate. That's is the difference. The overloading was on a completely different scale due to Covid.

beauf · 21-02-2021 12:24PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Difference is I’d bet the farm Paris will be open in 5-6 weeks when the numbers reflect sensible commercial reopening. We will follow our busted economic action of remaining closed even when these countries demonstrate that their reopening is NOT contributing to additional infections. “Irish science”

Ps
I’d gladly sit outside today 13 degrees in February. Sadly MM has deemed it hazardous.

So you do want a curfew.

ujjjjjjjjj · 21-02-2021 12:24PM

beauf wrote: »

They didn't have the same transmission rate. That's is the difference. The overloading was on a completely different scale due to Covid.

Don't agree. The 1950's and 1960's flu outbreaks were extensive and nasty and highly virulent. It is just our reaction this time has been so different.

beauf · 21-02-2021 12:28PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know people who slept in the same bed as somebody with covid and didn't catch it.

Thinking we have any control over this virus is just arrogance.

Fact remains that controls do work on reducing the transmission of a virus.

21-02-2021 12:29PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You have something to look forward to. Other than walks within 5 km and cutting your own hair for next few months (years?).

Assuming M Martin is held unaccountable ofcourse.

But weird. I know what Venice looks like, I can look forward to lots of things.
Not sure why you would post that video. Unless you're just trying to actually depress people?

Anyway, I am a believer in obeying the laws of the country. I don't always agree with the laws but I am happy enough to go alongside the general consensus.

I do agree with lockdowns to a certain extent, and bans on movement, to a certain extent. But only to get initial high numbers down, and keep the health system going. I would have much preferred a curfew system then closing everything! We have dropped the daily cases from 8000ish to under 1000, what else do they need?

I'm waiting to hear the official statement from the taoiseach (March is it?) But hopefully after that, there will be an actual end in sight and the beginning of opening up again.

I couldn't blame business owners and employees from starting some kind of disobedience, or even large scale peaceful protests.

dalyboy · 21-02-2021 12:30PM

beauf wrote: »

So you do want a curfew.

Is this a joke question? A curfew from what.
Everything is presently closed in Ireland

Thespoofer · 21-02-2021 12:31PM

GazzaL wrote: »

It gets overloaded every year, without fail. We don't shut the whole country down because of it. What have the Government, HSE and NPHET done to address this in the last 12 months? **** all.

You can be sure they'll pay their own salaries first before any improvements in our healthcare system are considered.

When will it all end?

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