Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Tork · 15-02-2021 09:34PM

ypres5 wrote: »

why can't we start buying doses of the Sputnik vaccine and the Chinese ones? if they're good enough for Serbia Hungary and other countries they're good enough for us

I'd instinctively be concerned that they're the equivalent of buying tat off Wish. Do we know if they tested these vaccines properly? None of these countries are what you'd call beacons of freedom or open information. If there are people suffering adverse reactions to these vaccines, we're certainly not going to hear about them.

Cork2021 · 15-02-2021 09:35PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

How come their distance is only one metre. So unfair.......

It’s two metres in reality though, wouldn’t work for stadiums, theatres, cinemas and hospitality

Cork2021 · 15-02-2021 09:37PM

ypres5 wrote: »

whatever else you say about the Tories but at least they'll have the gumption to tell the nutty professors where to go while over here im not so sure

They seem and I’ll be cautious saying it. The right way about easing restrictions, take our time but they’ll be irreversible, so once something opens, there’s no going back. Maybe that approach here is needed...... again it’s possible our plan is similar but without the irreversible bit, NPHET would need defibrillators if the government wrote that into law!

JRant · 15-02-2021 09:40PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

One thing that would help in my view is to replace Donnelly in the dept of health.

I have little faith in him to oversee this vaccine rollout quickly and efficiently. We need an ass kicker in that dept now more than ever to oversee the rollout, EU failings aside.

Donnelly doesn't inspire enough confidence for me he is the man to oversee this.

Donnelly is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. That being said, it doesn't really matter who the minister is. The minister can blame the HSE, the HSE can blame the department, the department can blame NPHET, and the call all blame the national vaccine group. So, in actual fact, nobody is responsible for anything.

Boggles · 15-02-2021 09:42PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ever since then, Russia has essentially returned to Cold War status in Western culture and discourse.

Where would they get that notion from I wonder?

"Church Tourists"

daydorunrun · 15-02-2021 09:44PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The media have been shockingly, extraordinarily, unacceptably irresponsible in this regard, I absolutely agree. Genuinely shocking. Claire Byrne's repeated showcasing of the supposedly quasi-permanent "new normal" with gimmicks such as going for pints in Father Jack-esque plastic pods, or going to concerts in zorb-like hamster balls, are so incredibly bad for peoples' mental health when they come with the unspoken inference that social distancing of this type is in any way long-term.

I've genuinely been massively disappointed in our media over this and coming from a family of journalists who worked for RTE and the Irish Times among others, I have huge respect for journalism and the media usually. The slide into clickbait and rage-bait over the last five or six years, however, has severely damaged the Irish media's credibility, at least where RTE, the Irish Times and the Indo are concerned.

Even before COVID, I found the Indo's intentional stoking of partisan sh!te extremely grating, and even more so the Irish Times' intentional promotion of identity politics sh!te to the front page of its website (the Louise O'Neill, Una Mullally, "straight white men are literally Hitler" crap) just because it drives social media engagement at the expense of heightening cultural tensions and really doing enormous damage to society in general. These are just two examples in a long litany of ways in which, to my mind, Irish journalism has really fallen off a cliff over the last decade and is now very far removed from any kind of public duty to report the news for the sake of disseminating factual information.

I'm not even going to suggest, like others do, that the media has an agenda in its bizarre and destructive COVID coverage. In my view, this sh!te is 100% peddled precisely because it results in the kind of conversation we're having here on this thread - ergo, more people sharing the articles, even if it's just to say "would you look at this sh!te?" - ergo, more Cost Per Thousand Impressions from advertisers. Very very very simple formula which is as old as online advertising itself.

Whatever justifications one might point to in terms of falling print revenues, falling TV license numbers etc, the media's behaviour with regard to COVID has in many ways been absolutely abhorrent. And I really wouldn't often be one to say something like that, as most who know my general political debating stances on Boards would attest to. The only times in the past I've criticised the media for bias were immediately after the 2020 election in which many media outlets seemed to buy into the "the public were wrong to reject the status quo" narrative, and as I've mentioned, the period around ~2014-2017 when the intentional baiting of The Battle Of The Sexes was at fever pitch. I'm absolutely not one of these "fake news" conspiracy theorists, but I do feel that in these specific circumstances the media's irresponsibility in pedalling utterly hyperbolic sh!te about the future of COVID needs to be called out. It's not just silly reporting, it's the type of thing which could very easily result in serious harm to people whose mental health is already pushed beyond its limit after almost a year of this.

Spot on- what saddens me is that relatively few can see what the media have become. Their MO and the omnipresent nature of social media to spread the click bate is a perfect storm.

Funny enough the ability for people to read and rage about it online (much like we are doing here ironically) means people can get things off their chest rather than take to the streets, contact their local representative.

It will be interesting to see how history judges this period....I can see the Covid Tribunal last a while!!

Silentcorner · 15-02-2021 09:44PM

Cork2021 wrote: »

This article on sky news is one for the bed wetters!
Is social distancing something that our fantastic scientists here want? Looks like over in the UK the mad scientist want to ruin all small business and possibly put many professional sports teams into administration!

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-government-scientists-want-to-keep-social-distancing-measures-in-place-for-foreseeable-future-12219223

I do often wonder if all the social distancing is a partial cause of all the mutations that seem to become more transmittable...

ypres5 · 15-02-2021 09:44PM

Tork wrote: »

I'd instinctively be concerned that they're the equivalent of buying tat off Wish. Do we know if they tested these vaccines properly? None of these countries are what you'd call beacons of freedom or open information. If there are people suffering adverse reactions to these vaccines, we're certainly not going to hear about them.

i suppose we should be wary of the Sputnik vaccine and the Chinese ones but i definitely think we should be making our own deals with j&j and the other companies after the eu cock up

ypres5 · 15-02-2021 09:48PM

Cork2021 wrote: »

They seem and I’ll be cautious saying it. The right way about easing restrictions, take our time but they’ll be irreversible, so once something opens, there’s no going back. Maybe that approach here is needed...... again it’s possible our plan is similar but without the irreversible bit, NPHET would need defibrillators if the government wrote that into law!

that's what im looking for off the government. fair enough we can't go rushing into anything but we should be getting guarantees that once the elderly and the vulnerable are given their shots that we're putting lockdown in the rear view mirror rather than them basically telling us 2021 and potentially 2022 are being put to the sword already

hatrickpatrick · 15-02-2021 10:09PM

As an example of what I mean when I refer to the media being irresponsible, see below. I realise one could argue that this is just a bit of lighthearted craic, but in my view in the context of the year we've had as well as these rumblings of extended social distancing rules even after mass vaccination, I for one believe them to be extremely harmful. Any young person who is either an extrovert or single and hoping to meet someone to date will feel their blood run cold at the idea of having to be isolated from strangers in all large scale social settings for anything like the kind of long term scenarios they've been coming out with lately. It doesn't help that such a gigantic part of the young Irish social scene is built entirely around house parties firstly and musical events secondly, they being gigs and nightclubs, wherein this is where most people make new friends and/or chat people up and eventually end up in relationships.

The idea that these aspects of life are going to be restricted for a period measuring in years is well and good for anyone who has an established friend group and/or a long term sexual partner. For the rest of the young population, it means enforced social isolation and celibacy, no other way around it. Hell, I mentioned in another thread that even with the likes of Tinder, Bumble etc, the "remain two metres from people not in your household at all times" rule overlooks, or perhaps just discards as unimportant, the issue of people trying to start relationships.

I don't think it's hyperbole to suggest that in the above context, peddling this kind of imagery is unimaginably irresponsible. Those who find it a bit of fun are, I would imagine, primarily those who are either already paired off with someone else or already have an established network of close friends with no need to mingle with strangers for a social or romantic outlet. Those who aren't, though, particularly people who've just graduated from school or college, will look at imagery like this and see a world entirely devoid of hope.

https://twitter.com/ClaireByrneLive/status/1358926477228732418

suicide_circus · 15-02-2021 10:10PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

intentional promotion of identity politics sh!te....just because it drives social media engagement at the expense of heightening cultural tensions

This is the biggest danger facing western society right now.

The HorsesMouth · 15-02-2021 10:23PM

Cork2021 wrote: »

This article on sky news is one for the bed wetters!
Is social distancing something that our fantastic scientists here want? Looks like over in the UK the mad scientist want to ruin all small business and possibly put many professional sports teams into administration!

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-government-scientists-want-to-keep-social-distancing-measures-in-place-for-foreseeable-future-12219223

This is the biggest existential question for any government. To lift the social distancing rules.
The pubs, gyms and travel rules are one thing.
And I know we are going to get our answer from Israel and the UK before we ever think about lifting it but I wouldn't like to be the one making the decision on it especially the counties out way ahead!

hatrickpatrick · 15-02-2021 10:23PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

This is the biggest danger facing western society right now.

Argument for a different thread but honestly I'd be heavily inclined to agree, this isn't just a rolling one's eyes issue anymore - when I was growing up in the 90s and 00s, it felt like society was in a much, much better place with regard to demographic blindness, live and let live mentality, etc. The attempts to divide people into "us vs them" battle mentalities on identity grounds which began in the early 2010s, in my view directly precipitated by a desire for increased controversy and therefore increased advertising revenue has set society back massively.

It's caused people who hitherto didn't care one way or another about race or gender to think about it in a hostile and argumentative way when it comes up, which just wasn't the cast ten years ago - and it's all because a small but very vocal cohort of "journalists" realised that pushing inflammatory headlines targeting this group this week and that group next week caused their articles to be shared with a virality rivalling that of Corona itself.

Point being, the media in my view has a lot to answer for in terms of its behaviour over the last ten years. The abandonment of objective, facts-based reporting in favour of pushing one agenda or another, whether you believe that to be for commercial or ideological reasons, has caused an unimaginable amount of social upheaval and destroyed peoples' trust in the press, which is one of several reasons anti mask, anti vax, covid denialism has found such an easy foothold in Western society.

There was a time when large swathes of the public were not openly hostile to the media, because they'd never been given a reason to be. The media has persistently done that over the last decade, and as a result, we currently exist in a vaccuum of accountability and trust. That's not a good thing when we're trying to co-ordinate a society-wide response to the current mess.

And more importantly, to circle back to the original argument, it really is harming people. The kind of stuff Claire Byrne keeps entertaining is fuelling the "we're never getting out of this, I'm never going to hug or kiss another human again" mentality which I've personally seen among people close to me over the last few weeks.

CruelSummer · 15-02-2021 10:28PM

I’ve stopped watching NPHET press conferences and judging by the main points I’ve seen from it today, thank God.

One doctor last week at it said Long Covid would be an issue into the future. Guess what the most common Long Covid symptom was...anxiety and depression. Imagine the public and journalists sitting there swallowing this absolute rubbish. Anxiety and depression are clearly the result of never ending lockdowns, media / NPHET hysteria and negativity, nutty professor hysteria.

Gabriel Scally was on Claire Byrne earlier and was actually not questioned when he casually mentioned that restrictions should not be lifted until ALL of the population were vaccinated including children. Also mentioned a ‘study’ in U.K. where he stated 1 in 8 young children in the U.K. could suffer from ‘Long Covid’. Aka anxiety and depression due to their lives being destroyed by our response. Something is beginning to stink with all of this.

acequion · 15-02-2021 10:41PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Argument for a different thread but honestly I'd be heavily inclined to agree, this isn't just a rolling one's eyes issue anymore - when I was growing up in the 90s and 00s, it felt like society was in a much, much better place with regard to demographic blindness, live and let live mentality, etc. The attempts to divide people into "us vs them" battle mentalities on identity grounds which began in the early 2010s, in my view directly precipitated by a desire for increased controversy and therefore increased advertising revenue has set society back massively.

It's caused people who hitherto didn't care one way or another about race or gender to think about it in a hostile and argumentative way when it comes up, which just wasn't the cast ten years ago - and it's all because a small but very vocal cohort of "journalists" realised that pushing inflammatory headlines targeting this group this week and that group next week caused their articles to be shared with a virality rivalling that of Corona itself.

Point being, the media in my view has a lot to answer for in terms of its behaviour over the last ten years. The abandonment of objective, facts-based reporting in favour of pushing one agenda or another, whether you believe that to be for commercial or ideological reasons, has caused an unimaginable amount of social upheaval and destroyed peoples' trust in the press, which is one of several reasons anti mask, anti vax, covid denialism has found such an easy foothold in Western society.

There was a time when large swathes of the public were not openly hostile to the media, because they'd never been given a reason to be. The media has persistently done that over the last decade, and as a result, we currently exist in a vaccuum of accountability and trust. That's not a good thing when we're trying to co-ordinate a society-wide response to the current mess.

And more importantly, to circle back to the original argument, it really is harming people. The kind of stuff Claire Byrne keeps entertaining is fuelling the "we're never getting out of this, I'm never going to hug or kiss another human again" mentality which I've personally seen among people close to me over the last few weeks.

Extremely interesting and thought provoking posts about the behavior of the Media. Thank you for them and for taking the time to express it all so well.

AlekSmart · 15-02-2021 10:47PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’ve stopped watching NPHET press conferences and judging by the main points I’ve seen from it today, thank God.

One doctor last week at it said Long Covid would be an issue into the future. Guess what the most common Long Covid symptom was...anxiety and depression. Imagine the public and journalists sitting there swallowing this absolute rubbish. Anxiety and depression are clearly the result of never ending lockdowns, media / NPHET hysteria and negativity, nutty professor hysteria.

Gabriel Scally was on Claire Byrne earlier and was actually not questioned when he casually mentioned that restrictions should not be lifted until ALL of the population were vaccinated including children. Also mentioned a ‘study’ in U.K. where he stated 1 in 8 young children in the U.K. could suffer from ‘Long Covid’. Aka anxiety and depression due to their lives being destroyed by our response. Something is beginning to stink with all of this.

Try getting any form of adolescent counselling these days......it's an absolute war zone in many practices,as they try to balance their ongoing workload with constant and ever increasing "Emergency" requests via Túsla.

Even the HSE have had to belatedly attempt to recruit Adolescent specific councellors,as the entire edifice bagins to crumble around them.

Covid-19 at this stage,is the LEAST of our worries for a functional societal future.

noserider · 15-02-2021 10:48PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’ve stopped watching NPHET press conferences and judging by the main points I’ve seen from it today, thank God.

One doctor last week at it said Long Covid would be an issue into the future. Guess what the most common Long Covid symptom was...anxiety and depression. Imagine the public and journalists sitting there swallowing this absolute rubbish. Anxiety and depression are clearly the result of never ending lockdowns, media / NPHET hysteria and negativity, nutty professor hysteria.

Gabriel Scally was on Claire Byrne earlier and was actually not questioned when he casually mentioned that restrictions should not be lifted until ALL of the population were vaccinated including children. Also mentioned a ‘study’ in U.K. where he stated 1 in 8 young children in the U.K. could suffer from ‘Long Covid’. Aka anxiety and depression due to their lives being destroyed by our response. Something is beginning to stink with all of this.

Something is beginning to stink with all of this.

Does anyone think it v strange no deaths reported today? A good news story no doubt. Also paired with the roll out of vaccine to 85+.
I’ll put my neck on the line here and say there is some, let’s say decisions made with regard to release of the numbers to suit a certain narrative, today being a positive news day.

Cork2021 · 15-02-2021 10:54PM

noserider wrote: »

Something is beginning to stink with all of this.

Does anyone think it v strange no deaths reported today? A good news story no doubt. Also paired with the roll out of vaccine to 85+.
I’ll put my neck on the line here and say there is some, let’s say decisions made with regard to release of the numbers to suit a certain narrative, today being a positive news day.

I see where your coming from, but then you had Glynn say the death register is closed at the weekend which is always the case and that deaths will be announced tomorrow, the narrative won’t change until the government decides when this already endemic virus becomes just another seasonal coronavirus like the common cold. This is what the vaccines first purpose was, was to make this as harmless as a cold, and it looks like they’re doing their job!

billyhead · 15-02-2021 10:56PM

noserider wrote: »

Something is beginning to stink with all of this.

Does anyone think it v strange no deaths reported today? A good news story no doubt. Also paired with the roll out of vaccine to 85+.
I’ll put my neck on the line here and say there is some, let’s say decisions made with regard to release of the numbers to suit a certain narrative, today being a positive news day.

The media and government say what suits their narrative. I've personally lost interest at this stage.

lemush · 15-02-2021 11:09PM

Arciphel wrote: »

Just reading through the last few pages of the thread, and lo and behold a fecking ice cream van pulls up outside and a load of kids (who have all been out playing together all day, mixing from about six different households, while I keep mine inside and away from their friends) all line up for a 99. Welcome to level 5 lockdown, Irish style! Madness.

I feel sorry for your children.

growleaves · 15-02-2021 11:11PM

To take an extreme hypothetical, if social distancing does goes on for years what does that mean in terms of evolutionary pressures?

It means that nature is selecting for the trait of non-conformity, as trust in public institutions and the government become literally dysgenic.

I suppose it also means that the trait of criminality is being selected for, which was also the case during the Great Famine (stealing food to survive, also convicts in the prison system were fed and survived).

Graham · 15-02-2021 11:13PM

growleaves wrote: »

To take an extreme hypothetical, if social distancing does goes on for years what does that mean in terms of evolutionary pressures?

It means that nature is selecting for the trait of non-conformity, as trust in public institutions and the government become literally dysgenic.

I suppose it also means that the trait of criminality is being selected for, which was also the case during the Great Famine (stealing food to survive, also convicts in the prison system were fed and survived).

Holy cow.

We're going full-on science-fiction now?

growleaves · 15-02-2021 11:17PM

Graham wrote: »

Holy cow.

We're going full-on science-fiction now?

Sam McConkey mentioned six years of restrictions. Leo Varadkar referenced a "lost decade" as a possibility.

I agree its insane, yet its clearly being 'floated'.

Over that time frame, you are talking about fertility windows closing shut and I think it is fair to talk about evolutionary pressures.

15-02-2021 11:19PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As an example of what I mean when I refer to the media being irresponsible, see below. I realise one could argue that this is just a bit of lighthearted craic, but in my view in the context of the year we've had as well as these rumblings of extended social distancing rules even after mass vaccination, I for one believe them to be extremely harmful. Any young person who is either an extrovert or single and hoping to meet someone to date will feel their blood run cold at the idea of having to be isolated from strangers in all large scale social settings for anything like the kind of long term scenarios they've been coming out with lately. It doesn't help that such a gigantic part of the young Irish social scene is built entirely around house parties firstly and musical events secondly, they being gigs and nightclubs, wherein this is where most people make new friends and/or chat people up and eventually end up in relationships.

The idea that these aspects of life are going to be restricted for a period measuring in years is well and good for anyone who has an established friend group and/or a long term sexual partner. For the rest of the young population, it means enforced social isolation and celibacy, no other way around it. Hell, I mentioned in another thread that even with the likes of Tinder, Bumble etc, the "remain two metres from people not in your household at all times" rule overlooks, or perhaps just discards as unimportant, the issue of people trying to start relationships.

I don't think it's hyperbole to suggest that in the above context, peddling this kind of imagery is unimaginably irresponsible. Those who find it a bit of fun are, I would imagine, primarily those who are either already paired off with someone else or already have an established network of close friends with no need to mingle with strangers for a social or romantic outlet. Those who aren't, though, particularly people who've just graduated from school or college, will look at imagery like this and see a world entirely devoid of hope.

https://twitter.com/ClaireByrneLive/status/1358926477228732418

I’ve a single friend with the very same concerns as you. I don’t know what to say I mean as you say people meet at social events, clubs, music venues, even weddings sometimes. Now where would you meet someone, the supermarket or the takeaway?? As for that pod or bubble in that clip it’s just pathetic.Maybe as things open it’ll improve slightly but you’d probably have to take up an outdoor hobby as a way of socializing as it doesn’t look great for decent size indoor gatherings for a while yet, still could be wrong but v. difficult to be young through all this, but still keep going, surely the summer will be better

Cork2021 · 15-02-2021 11:31PM

I’m not a violent person but I swear to fûck if I see Staines on the street when this over I’ll give him a dig in the nutsack!! What a pessimistic cûnt if I’ve ever seen one!!

https://twitter.com/astaines/status/1361441905721098245?s=21

Boggerman12 · 15-02-2021 11:33PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’ve stopped watching NPHET press conferences and judging by the main points I’ve seen from it today, thank God.

One doctor last week at it said Long Covid would be an issue into the future. Guess what the most common Long Covid symptom was...anxiety and depression. Imagine the public and journalists sitting there swallowing this absolute rubbish. Anxiety and depression are clearly the result of never ending lockdowns, media / NPHET hysteria and negativity, nutty professor hysteria.

Gabriel Scally was on Claire Byrne earlier and was actually not questioned when he casually mentioned that restrictions should not be lifted until ALL of the population were vaccinated including children. Also mentioned a ‘study’ in U.K. where he stated 1 in 8 young children in the U.K. could suffer from ‘Long Covid’. Aka anxiety and depression due to their lives being destroyed by our response. Something is beginning to stink with all of this.

And the sad thing is these “celebrity “ virologists like mcconkey,Ryan and scaly et al are allowed peddle this crap no questions asked.look up Samuel mcdonkey s predictions from 2009 about the killer swine flu that he said was going to infect over 1 million here in Ireland.this is all about money at the end of the day

growleaves · 15-02-2021 11:34PM

gansi wrote: »

I’ve a single friend with the very same concerns as you. I don’t know what to say I mean as you say people meet at social events, clubs, music venues, even weddings sometimes. Now where would you meet someone, the supermarket or the takeaway?? As for that pod or bubble in that clip it’s just pathetic.Maybe as things open it’ll improve slightly but you’d probably have to take up an outdoor hobby as a way of socializing as it doesn’t look great for decent size indoor gatherings for a while yet, still could be wrong but v. difficult to be young through all this, but still keep going, surely the summer will be better

The beach. Takeaway pints. Outdoor hobbies yep - bicycle clubs, tennis etc.

JRant · 15-02-2021 11:34PM

growleaves wrote: »

To take an extreme hypothetical, if social distancing does goes on for years what does that mean in terms of evolutionary pressures?

It means that nature is selecting for the trait of non-conformity, as trust in public institutions and the government become literally dysgenic.

I suppose it also means that the trait of criminality is being selected for, which was also the case during the Great Famine (stealing food to survive, also convicts in the prison system were fed and survived).

I don't see that happening at all. What is more likely though is that the black economy will return and stay for a prolonged period. It was like that in the 80's when there were very high taxation levels. A lot of people worked for cash in hand. That's back with a bang now and people will just get used to it.

doublejobbing 2 · 15-02-2021 11:35PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Gabriel Scally was on Claire Byrne earlier and was actually not questioned when he casually mentioned that restrictions should not be lifted until ALL of the population were vaccinated including children..

Can someone actually explain this one to me? Why do ANY restrictions need to remain in place a second after all elderly and otherwise medically vulnerable (including the overweight) are vaccinated?

doublejobbing 2 · 15-02-2021 11:38PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The media have been shockingly, extraordinarily, unacceptably irresponsible in this regard, I absolutely agree. Genuinely shocking. Claire Byrne's repeated showcasing of the supposedly quasi-permanent "new normal" with gimmicks such as going for pints in Father Jack-esque plastic pods, or going to concerts in zorb-like hamster balls, are so incredibly bad for peoples' mental health when they come with the unspoken inference that social distancing of this type is in any way long-term.

.

Byrne has a track for this nonsense on her show. I recall their take on what the pub or retail experience would be when it re opened last summer, absolute hyperbolic nonsense.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings