Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

TheDoctor · 15-02-2021 12:21PM

Penfailed wrote: »

We'll reopen too. The CMO and the health minister in the north have both stated that there will probably be some restrictions in place until next year. What will be hilarious about watching them enjoying their lives?

Lets pick a date and compare our restrictions to theirs. You can pick it.

The hilarious part will be the "but but look at how bad things are in the UK" crowd go silent.

paw patrol · 15-02-2021 12:26PM

Marc McSharry , who knew he was the hero we needed.
although he has backed down now which is a shame

Notice the wording of the piece how it's framed to disparage his view - which were correct and still is - this is the media in Ireland.
They want state funding and as a result are suck holes to their state masters.

The 1000 cases a day was irrelevant to his point. But stuck in there as a pointed dig- that is your media whether private or RTE

A Fianna Fáil TD sent a research paper to the Taoiseach calling for Level 2 restrictions on a day when the Department of Health announced more than 1,000 Covid-19 infections.

Marc MacSharry said in his report that the virus was not “indiscriminate” and was mostly affecting older people and those with pre-existing conditions.

He said this rendered “a forced closure for younger, otherwise healthy individuals questionable” and suggested there was little evidence to support the idea restaurants and pubs were responsible for the spread of the disease.

Penfailed · 15-02-2021 12:26PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Lets pick a date and compare our restrictions to theirs. You can pick it.

The hilarious part will be the "but but look at how bad things are in the UK" crowd go silent.

Are you lumping the entire UK together? They've all got different levels of restrictions.

Hilarious? Your version of what is hilarious and mine appear to differ substantially.

Russman · 15-02-2021 12:27PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Lets pick a date and compare our restrictions to theirs. You can pick it.

The hilarious part will be the "but but look at how bad things are in the UK" crowd go silent.

Who cares what the UK are doing anyway ? They've made an absolute balls of this from the beginning and have seemingly gotten a bit lucky with taking a gamble on vaccine dosing. They're led by a crowd no different to the head banger republicans in the States. Not a model we should look to emulate imo.

TheDoctor · 15-02-2021 12:28PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Are you lumping the entire UK together? They've all got different levels of restrictions.

Hilarious? Your version of what is hilarious and mine appear to differ substantially.

Humor is subjective.

Go on, pick a date.

Put up or shut up as they say.

Hector Savage · 15-02-2021 12:31PM

Podcast with far right extremist Ivor Cummins ...

https://boylan.podbean.com/e/exclusive-i-spoke-to-ivor-cummins-about-where-he-sees-covid-going-in-2021-and-the-the-new-normal/

Why is this not banned ?
This man should be in jail ...

Graham · 15-02-2021 12:32PM

paw patrol wrote: »

Notice the wording of the piece how it's framed to disparage his view - which were correct and still is - this is the media in Ireland.
They want state funding and as a result are suck holes to their state masters.

Are we still at the censorship conspiracy theories?

thebaz · 15-02-2021 12:33PM

Boggles wrote: »

Now if you could answer my question below I would appreciate it.

No , the Irish goverment is not alone , but have you checked the reports on Vitamin D and Covid ??

They are quite remarcable , do not understand why the Irish and other governments are not promoting this cheap and safe aide to Covid , the anaysis has been going on for over 6 months , the results are so encouraging.

muddypuppy · 15-02-2021 12:41PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

What parts of Spain and Italy? Since large sections of both are under similar restrictions to Ireland? And who has zoom classes on a Sunday?

Not true for Italy at least. Italy has a "yellow/orange/red" lockdown/restriction system, and at the moment the majority of the country is yellow. It was almost all until yesterday, now some regions are orange. It's in Italian, but you can see a nice map if you scroll down in http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/domande-frequenti-sulle-misure-adottate-dal-governo/15638
In the yellow areas there is a curfew from 10PM to 5AM, you have to use a mask even outdoor, restaurants/pubs have to close at 6PM (but can do takeaway for later) and large gatherings are not allowed, but that's about it.

EDIT: Or you can also just compare https://reopen.europa.eu/en/map/IRL/6001 with https://reopen.europa.eu/en/map/ITA/6001 and https://reopen.europa.eu/en/map/ESP/6001

FintanMcluskey · 15-02-2021 12:45PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Podcast with far right extremist Ivor Cummins ...

https://boylan.podbean.com/e/exclusive-i-spoke-to-ivor-cummins-about-where-he-sees-covid-going-in-2021-and-the-the-new-normal/

Why is this not banned ?
This man should be in jail ...

Far left extremist.

It’s pedantic but he’s not right wing.

He’s left wing if he’s going to be categorised

Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism

SheepsClothing · 15-02-2021 12:47PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Lets pick a date and compare our restrictions to theirs. You can pick it.

The hilarious part will be the "but but look at how bad things are in the UK" crowd go silent.

I wasn't a "look how bad things are in the UK person", but seriously, look how bad things are in the UK. One of the worst death rates in the word along with one of the worst economic performances. It's not a coincidence that at crucial points they failed to take the virus seriously and tried to live alongside it, a recipe for disaster.

They've done a great job on vaccine procurement though, fair play to them.

15-02-2021 12:52PM

Boggles wrote: »

There is no need I all ready answered your question.

So your answer as to why the government is not recommending a safe, effective and cheap preventative and therapeutic measure for Covid-19 is because a judge last year objected to Gemma O'Doherty's suggestion that
hydroxychloroquine, vitamin C and zinc cure covid?

I'll put you down for incompetence, so.

Boggles wrote: »

Now if you could answer my question below I would appreciate it.

Is the Irish government alone in the world at keeping this miracle cure secret from it populous?

Certainly not. But the UK, for example, are now giving free Vitamin D to those in vulnerable groups.

Are we allowed to compare ourselves to the UK in this, like we did with case numbers in December/January? Or is this one of the forbidden comparisons, like vaccine rollout? I can't keep up.

Penfailed · 15-02-2021 12:55PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Humor is subjective.

Go on, pick a date.

Put up or shut up as they say.

What would picking a date achieve? The four parts of the UK are all operating under different restrictions.

Penfailed · 15-02-2021 12:58PM

thebaz wrote: »

They are quite remarcable , do not understand why the Irish and other governments are not promoting this cheap and safe aide to Covid , the anaysis has been going on for over 6 months , the results are so encouraging.

I don't understand it either to be fair. My family and I are all taking Vit D supplements on the basis that it can't do any harm and it may actually help.

Boggles · 15-02-2021 12:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Certainly not. But the UK, for example, are now giving free Vitamin D to those in vulnerable groups.

Are we allowed to compare ourselves to the UK in this, like we did with case numbers in December/January? Or is this one of the forbidden comparisons, like vaccine rollout? I can't keep up.

So the UK are giving out free Vitamin D as a cure for Covid?

I'll need citation for that please.

I am aware of this.

The data reviewed by the panel includes the best available scientific evidence published so far, including both observational studies and randomised controlled trials. However, it was not possible to determine a direct relationship between vitamin D and COVID-19 based on the available evidence.

Due to the lack of reliable evidence on the effects of the supplement on COVID-19, our guidance recommends that more research be conducted on the subject, stressing the use of high-quality randomised controlled trials in future studies.

Dr Paul Chrisp, director of the Centre for Guidelines at NICE, said: “While there is insufficient evidence to recommend vitamin D for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 at this time, we encourage people to follow government advice on taking the supplement throughout the autumn and winter period.

So is your answer no country in the world is recommending Vitamin D as a magical cure?

Why do you think that is?

thebaz · 15-02-2021 01:03PM

Boggles wrote: »

So is your answer no country in the world is recommending Vitamin D as a magical cure?

Why do you think that is?

It's obviously not a cure , but it certainly seams to help - a lot - read the reports, its also safe and relativly cheap - I certainly take it, and reccomend anyone close to me to do likewise.

TheDoctor · 15-02-2021 01:10PM

Penfailed wrote: »

What would picking a date achieve? The four parts of the UK are all operating under different restrictions.

Good lord, I only care about 1 of the 4.

The 1 we share this island with.

15-02-2021 01:21PM

Boggles wrote: »

So the UK are giving out free Vitamin D as a cure for Covid?

I'll need citation for that please.

Have you been so busy supporting lockdowns on boards that you've missed all the data that's come out on vitamin D?

It's not a cure for Covid. It's a treatment for Covid and a preventative. Data has been accumulating on this front since early last year, but a new, large-scale study out of Spain has found an 80% reduction in ICU admission and a 60% reduction in death in those treated with vitamin D shortly after admission to hospital. Earlier studies have found a strong correlation between vitamin D deficiency and more severe/fatal disease.

The fact that the refusal to recommend a safe, cheap therapy during a health emergency is based on the absence of a lack of iron-clad scientific evidence for a direct causal relationship despite strong correlation is nothing more than an indication that our health bureaucracies are not fit for purpose during times such as this, and that we have many lessons to learn for the future. Even before a direct link was shown between vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 specifically, it was known that vitamin D was an immunomodulator and that the Irish population has a high rate of deficiency. Whichever way you look at it, the failure to recommend and provide vitamin D to people is a gross error that has caused deaths.

3,948 people have died from Covid-19 in Ireland. Even if we assume that the 60% lowered death rate is off by 10%, that's still nearly 2,000 lives unnecessarily lost to this incompetence. I find it incredible that your reaction is to try and minimise that, and to accuse anyone pointing it out of "agreeing with Gemma".

Here's your source on the UK giving free vitamin D to people in vulnerable groups: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/get-vitamin-d-supplements/

Penfailed · 15-02-2021 01:21PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Good lord, I only care about 1 of the 4.

The 1 we share this island with.

The one where 'wet' pubs have been closed for longer than ours (except Dublin)? The one where the CMO and the health minister have both stated that there will be some form of restrictions in place into 2022? They haven't closed construction and their special schools are open, so there's already an imbalance. It doesn't matter what date I give you, there's a guarantee that restrictions will continue to differ (one way or the other) in the two jurisdictions. Hilarious.

TheDoctor · 15-02-2021 01:27PM

Penfailed wrote: »

The one where 'wet' pubs have been closed for longer than ours (except Dublin)? The one where the CMO and the health minister have both stated that there will be some form of restrictions in place into 2022? They haven't closed construction and their special schools are open, so there's already an imbalance. It doesn't matter what date I give you, there's a guarantee that restrictions will continue to differ (one way or the other) in the two jurisdictions. Hilarious.

But we will always be further behind on reopening no matter what date we say as they are doing a better job up North?

Glad we are in agreement.

HildaOgdenx · 15-02-2021 01:34PM

retro:electro wrote: »

At the end of the day Micheál gets to get up in the morning and go off on his day, home in the evening, undo the tie and tell his wife all about the working day. He has absolutely no idea what this is like for the average person one year on living with this. It’s like being a prisoner in your own life but the thing is you’ve committed no crime and your parole keeps getting pushed out further and further. Nobody up there making any of these decisions has any inkling what a toll this is taking on people. It’s unjust. Once you have any semblance of routine or any kind of normal structure to your day then you’re laughing. You can’t fathom what it’s like basically living the same day over and over for 6 months straight with possibly another 3 to go, with the added pressure of having to fix something you never started in order to have any kind of normality back. They’ll never get it

This is what I have been thinking for a long time, too.

I don't envy their task, but honestly the Taoiseach, TDs and members of NPHET are going about pretty much as normal, and are more and more removed from how this is affecting people, from children to owners of businesses, and all the rest of us in between.

And people need a bit of hope, and to see a definite plan to getting back to some version of normality. Not MM and TH just endlessly preaching more lockdown.

TheDoctor · 15-02-2021 01:39PM

Leos comments in January about next Christmas being potentially off the table was one of the most irresponsible comments I have heard since this whole thing started. Clown of a man.

Boggles · 15-02-2021 01:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you been so busy supporting lockdowns on boards that you've missed all the data that's come out on vitamin D?

It's not a cure for Covid. It's a treatment for Covid and a preventative. Data has been accumulating on this front since early last year, but a new, large-scale study out of Spain has found an 80% reduction in ICU admission and a 60% reduction in death in those treated with vitamin D shortly after admission to hospital. Earlier studies have found a strong correlation between vitamin D deficiency and more severe/fatal disease.

The fact that the refusal to recommend a safe, cheap therapy during a health emergency is based on the absence of a lack of iron-clad scientific evidence for a direct causal relationship despite strong correlation is nothing more than an indication that our health bureaucracies are not fit for purpose during times such as this, and that we have many lessons to learn for the future. Even before a direct link was shown between vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 specifically, it was known that vitamin D was an immunomodulator and that the Irish population has a high rate of deficiency. Whichever way you look at it, the failure to recommend and provide vitamin D to people is a gross error that has caused deaths.

3,948 people have died from Covid-19 in Ireland. Even if we assume that the 60% lowered death rate is off by 10%, that's still nearly 2,000 lives unnecessarily lost to this incompetence. I find it incredible that your reaction is to try and minimise that, and to accuse anyone pointing it out of "agreeing with Gemma".

Here's your source on the UK giving free vitamin D to people in vulnerable groups: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/get-vitamin-d-supplements/

The UK are giving out Vitamin D for the same reason they always recommend it, they gave it out free this year because older people would haven been shielding and not getting enough from natural sun light.

During autumn and winter, everyone is advised to take vitamin D to keep their bones and muscles healthy and to support their general health.

This is particularly important if you've been indoors over the spring and summer as you may not have been getting enough vitamin D from sunlight.

So not one country, not one public health department on the entire planet are touting this cheap hormone which a lad on the internet has proof that it will

We're not talking a small difference, either. We're talking about people with adequate levels of vitamin D being half as likely to die from Covid-19. Half.

You have come to the conclusion that the worlds governance will not use it because they want people to die.

Come on lad, Does that pass the smell test?

hynesie08 · 15-02-2021 01:46PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

But we will always be further behind on reopening no matter what date we say as they are doing a better job up North?

Glad we are in agreement.

Are they though? They've a bigger number with a vaccine in their arm, but we'll have the majority of frontline workers and care home residents fully vaccinated by the end of the week. Better is subjective, and I'd say we're injecting smarter.

thebaz · 15-02-2021 02:01PM

Boggles wrote: »

The UK are giving out Vitamin D for the same reason they always recommend it, they gave it out free this year because older people would haven been shielding and not getting enough from natural sun light.

So not one country, not one public health department on the entire planet are touting this cheap hormone which a lad on the internet has proof that it will

You have come to the conclusion that the worlds governance will not use it because they want people to die.

Come on lad, Does that pass the smell test?

Wow - just sneer at any possible cheap safe help in the battle against Covid -

I guess extereme lockdowns are the only thing that work , but do not dare question that.

Boggles · 15-02-2021 02:05PM

thebaz wrote: »

Wow - just sneer at any possible cheap safe help in the battle against Covid -

I guess extereme lockdowns are the only thing that work , but do not dare question that.

So you want me to believe like the OP is touting that worlds governance is purposely withholding a hormone that cuts deaths in half because they want people to die?

Sneer?

I have been more than patient and generous in my responses.

Obviously that sort of discourse should be in the appropriate forum, wouldn't you agree?

Penfailed · 15-02-2021 02:11PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

But we will always be further behind on reopening no matter what date we say as they are doing a better job up North?

Glad we are in agreement.

A better job of what? The last time the barbers opened here, it was ahead of the north. Same with golf clubs. They have a population of 1.8 million and have a Covid death tally of 1985. We have a population of 4.9 million and a Covid death tally of 3948. By that metric, we're doing a better job. To sum up, no, we're not in agreement.

Klonker · 15-02-2021 02:12PM

It'll be August by the time government let us out of our counties and probably September by the time can go to a restaurant. Then come October they'll be worried by a 'Winter surge' and start locking us down again. If the rest of Europe are opening up in March (and they will) there will be civil disobedience here if we aren't doing the same by April. Some countries in Europe are already opening up from their less strict rules than ours in the first place.

I haven't left my 5km area since Christmas but come March I'm no longer following that restriction. I'll be travelling inter county to see my family.

thebaz · 15-02-2021 02:12PM

Boggles wrote: »

So you want me to believe like the OP is touting that worlds governance is purposely withholding a hormone that cuts deaths in half because they want people to die?

Well I dont think anyone would think the world goverance are deliberatly withholding the Vitamin D , but they are very slow to promote its usage , why? - I don't know - I have been taken Vitamin D for years , anything cheap and safe that helps somewhat should be promoted I would think.

15-02-2021 02:25PM

Boggles wrote: »

The UK are giving out Vitamin D for the same reason they always recommend it, they gave it out free this year because older people would haven been shielding and not getting enough from natural sun light.

So not one country, not one public health department on the entire planet are touting this cheap hormone which a lad on the internet has proof that it will

You have come to the conclusion that the worlds governance will not use it because they want people to die.

Come on lad, Does that pass the smell test?

The government of the UK have never given out Vitamin D to "clinically extremely vulnerable" groups before, and their providing it this year is a direct result of them consulting on it based on Covid benefit. The fact the website doesn't reflect that is a product of the bureaucracy I mentioned in my earlier post and will inevitably be one of the lessons to be learned for the future.

And once again, I don't give a fig what any other country is doing. I don't live there. I care about what Ireland is doing and has done. That doesn't mean I think the citizens of other countries should not be equally infuriated at the death-causing failures of their own governments.

Here's a bunch of medical researchers recommending high vitamin D supplementation: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.201912

Here's the WHO in 2017 confirming that vitamin D prevents respiratory tract infections: https://www.who.int/elena/titles/commentary/vitamind_pneumonia_children/en/

The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(21)00003-6/fulltext concluding with the same point as me, that: "In an ideal world, all health decisions would be made based on overwhelming evidence, but a time of crisis may call for a slightly different set of rules."

Plenty of health experts, doctors and scientists have been talking about vitamin D for months. I haven't said that governments are not recommending it because they "want people to die", and it is vindictive and misleading in the extreme (though not surprising) for you to suggest that I have.

What I have said is that there are two explanations - incompetence (our government are not keeping up with all available data) or malice (they are keeping up and are nonetheless allowing increased deaths to continue). I asked which you think it is, and whether you thought it was in any case rational to trust a government that is demonstrably acting with either incompetence or malice.

You failed to answer either of those questions, and instead went off on a tangent, either voluntarily or driven by your absolute obsession with Gemma O'Doherty, about vitamin C, zinc, a judge in 2020, and oh gosh how could we possibly expect our government to recommend life-saving supplements when nobody else is, as though our country acting like a spotty teenager desperate to fit in is a good thing.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings