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Ireland v France 2021 6n

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    #1022
    TomsOnTheRoof
    Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    almostover wrote: »
    I thought he did well enough. Disruptive at the French line out. I was disappointed when Coombes was dropped from the squad. Ruddock deserved his shot today and did fine. Problem isn't up front. 9 &10 is where we are goosed.

    For me he was average. I just think the we missed an opportunity to see what Coombes is made of at this level. He's shown Europe that he's good enough.


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    #1023
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    How many times did France switch the play from one side to the other during the game when it was on. You never see Ireland do that it's either crash ball or shovel it out along the line

    What is catt doing


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    #1024
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    lawred2 wrote: »
    what does that even mean?

    Some are saying we can’t criticise on the internet. I am saying we should be allowed and furthermore demand quality - its a turn of phrase. Just to be clear I am not suggesting we storm the Aviva. Lol.


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    #1025
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »
    For me he was average. I just think the we missed an opportunity to see what Coombes is made of at this level. He's shown Europe that he's good enough.

    You were watching a different game then.

    Probably the only player to get consistent go-forward ball against an exceptional French defense. Won a line out and a breakdown steal as well.

    What more does he have to do?


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    #1026
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,295 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Listen - Ireland are actually well prepared. Well drilled. And a well organised outfit.

    They had the better of set pieces and arguably the breakdown today. Not reckless either as can be seen in the relative penalty counts and not very many turnovers.

    So a well drilled side.

    But completely lacking in what France have in the likes of Dupont, Jalibert or Dulin etc and that's a bit of xfactor mixed with pace etc. that little bit of quality that makes a difference.

    I'd also say the game needs to swiftly move on here beyond just rucks and controlled phase play. We just don't offload. And when we do; we do it badly.


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    #1027
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Definitely need to avoid panic but there is change needed that was already needed before kick off. The good news is our pack seems to be sorted which is a big plus as we saw today, with the same soft forward performances we wouldn’t have got back within 2 points of France despite being mediocre for most of the match.

    The problem is our back play is actually a ****ing joke, you’d swear they just met before the match the way they attack, it’s so formulaic and predictable and with a backline that has all bar one/two playing for Leinster you’d expect atleast something off the cuff, even if just few are far between. Something has to be done here badly.


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    #1028
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭almostover


    TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »
    For me he was average. I just think the we missed an opportunity to see what Coombes is made of at this level. He's shown Europe that he's good enough.

    I think it comes down to playing a proven player vs. one who is in the process of proving himself. I'm a Minster fan and Cork man and would love to see Coombes get a shot. Against Italy I'd love to see Coombes and Connors start as the 6 and 7.


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    #1029
    davepatr07
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭davepatr07


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    Are you for real? There's nearly 7 million on our island and New Zealand have a much smaller population with huge interest in multiple sports. Stop talking $hite.

    New Zealand lives and breathes rugby, yes other sports are popular like cricket and netball, sailing etc but rugby is No 1 like GAA is to Ireland. I lived there for 7 years I seen Maori kids as young as 6 and 7 throwing rugby balls in the local park for fun. Most of the all boys schools churn out a conveyer belt of players for Super Rugby. I don't know how many advertisements I seen all year round at the sides of buses in Wellington where they target kids to play rugby for their schools and in their community. You can't compare that to Ireland, systems need to be changed.


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    #1030
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭almostover


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    Definitely need to avoid panic but there is change needed that was already needed before kick off. The good news is our pack seems to be sorted which is a big plus as we saw today, with the same soft forward performances we wouldn’t have got back within 2 points of France despite being mediocre for most of the match.

    The problem is our back play is actually a ****ing joke, you’d swear they just met before the match the way they attack, it’s so formulaic and predictable and with a backline that has all bar one/two playing for Leinster you’d expect atleast something off the cuff, even if just few are far between. Something has to be done here badly.

    Our back play is a joke in both attack and defence. Much is being made of our blunt attack but in the last 2 games cutting out some glaring basic defensive errors could have us being 2 wins from 2 games.


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    #1031
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    davepatr07 wrote: »
    New Zealand lives and breathes rugby, yes other sports are popular like cricket and netball, sailing etc but rugby is No 1 like GAA is to Ireland. I lived there for 7 years I seen Maori kids as young as 6 and 7 throwing rugby balls in the local park for fun. Most of the all boys schools churn out a conveyer belt of players for Super Rugby. I don't know how many advertisements I seen all year round at the sides of buses in Wellington where they target kids to play rugby for their schools and in their community. You can't compare that to Ireland, systems need to be changed.

    Ah see now you are picking and choosing when population comparison counts...


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    #1032
    davepatr07
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭davepatr07


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    Ah see now you are picking and choosing when population comparison counts...

    I'm not picking and choosing I'm stating a fact based on what I observed, did you live in NZ yourself or just look for an argument based on your presumptions?


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    #1033
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,775 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    Are you for real? There's nearly 7 million on our island and New Zealand have a much smaller population with huge interest in multiple sports. Stop talking $hite.

    Good one.

    Rugby is NZls national game..

    They eat, live and breathe the sport for chrissake!

    Wales the same!


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    #1034
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You were watching a different game then.

    Probably the only player to get consistent go-forward ball against an exceptional French defense. Won a line out and a breakdown steal as well.

    What more does he have to do?

    Na. Stander was comfortably our best back row today, imo.


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    #1035
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Listen - Ireland are actually well prepared. Well drilled. And a well organised outfit.

    They had the better of set pieces and arguably the breakdown today. Not reckless either as can be seen in the relative penalty counts and not very many turnovers.

    So a well drilled side.

    But completely lacking in what France have in the likes of Dupont, Jalibert or Dulin etc and that's a bit of xfactor mixed with pace etc. that little bit of quality that makes a difference.

    I'd also say the game needs to swiftly move on here beyond just rucks and controlled phase play. We just don't offload. And when we do; we do it badly.

    We do have X factor actually, the same old problems that it’s just ingrained in this team to be safe and predictable outside the 9 & 10.

    France didn’t beat us because they had more X factor, they beat us because they had much more
    Organization and were willing to take risks whe the chances came whereas we never had a plan outside of 9/10. The French tries weren’t even down to X factor, just perfect example of simple rugby and exposing space & finding miss matches. Yes the build up had flair (first try) but putting Ollivion in the corner was an example of simple rugby and especially the Penaud try.


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    #1036
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,506 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    mfceiling wrote: »
    The reason we lost by 2 was our ability.

    Missed penalty by Burns.

    Missed try by Lowe.

    Missed tackle by Lowe.

    These were all controlled by ourselves.

    French mistakes were their doing, not ours.

    We can only control our own performance.


    The reason we were never going to win was our ability

    The reason France didn’t score way more was their mistakes.

    The only reason we got a try was a French mistake.

    The only reason Lowe nearly got a try was a mindless trip on Earls.

    We actually played a lot better than I expected and France played a lot worse than I expected.

    But we still never looked like winning, even while dominating at times up front

    It reminded me of a few games between Munster and Sarries, never able to get over the game line in any meaningful way and they were happy to let us have the ball because we were going backwards.


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    #1037
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    walshb wrote: »
    Good one.

    Rugby is NZls national game..

    They eat, live and breathe the sport for chrissake!

    Wales the same!

    But you said population was an issue...


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    #1038
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭almostover


    aloooof wrote: »
    Na. Stander was comfortably our best back row today, imo.

    I've resigned myself to the fact that there are many posters both here and on other Internet platforms who have an agenda against stander. He's a top quality backrow forward who consistently plays well for Ireland. Provides a platform with strong carrying and is a workhorse in defence. Not at the level of Richie McCaw or a David Pocock but not far off either. He'll win many more caps and MoMs for Ireland much to the chagrin of many Ireland 'fans'.


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    #1039
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,775 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    But you said population was an issue...

    Yes. It can be..

    I never said it is the only issue...

    It absolutely can play its part..

    With NZ, one also must factor in its obsession and historical connections to the game..

    There are always several factors to consider and debate.


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    #1040
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    almostover wrote: »
    Our back play is a joke in both attack and defence. Much is being made of our blunt attack but in the last 2 games cutting out some glaring basic defensive errors could have us being 2 wins from 2 games.

    We could have been but sadly when you aren’t organized and make mistakes combined these tight games go against you. Something had to be done, weather it’s bringing in new blood who aren’t used to the set up and might bring some different or someone to come in and advise us how to attack properly.


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    #1041
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,506 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I would love to hear the reasoning behind bringing back on Cian Healy when he came back on. He wasn’t at the races before the clash of heads.

    Also don’t understand why Beirne was taken off instead of Hendo. Hendo had received a massive bang and Beirne was after winning our first turnover at the breakdown.

    Personally I think not starting Cooney was the biggest mistake, he would have been better from place kicks, offers more of a running threat and knows Burns a lot better.

    I have some serious reservations about the decisions being made on the touch line.


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    #1042
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes. It can be..

    I never said it is the only issue...

    It absolutely can play its part..

    Well NZL show population isn’t the issue so enough of that nonsense. No amount of love for rugby can bridge a gap between having 5 million and having 60 million unless there is more to it than just population so enough of that excuse please.


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    #1043
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    davepatr07 wrote: »
    I'm not picking and choosing I'm stating a fact based on what I observed, did you live in NZ yourself or just look for an argument based on your presumptions?

    You said population was an issue, NZL debunk that argument, next excuse please.


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    #1044
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,775 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    Well NZL show population isn’t the issue so enough of that nonsense. No amount of love for rugby can bridge a gap between having 5 million and having 60 million unless there is more to it than just population so enough of that excuse please.

    Who said NZls population was an issue?

    Are you reading what is being written?


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    #1045
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,298 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    davepatr07 wrote: »
    New Zealand lives and breathes rugby, yes other sports are popular like cricket and netball, sailing etc but rugby is No 1 like GAA is to Ireland. I lived there for 7 years I seen Maori kids as young as 6 and 7 throwing rugby balls in the local park for fun. Most of the all boys schools churn out a conveyer belt of players for Super Rugby. I don't know how many advertisements I seen all year round at the sides of buses in Wellington where they target kids to play rugby for their schools and in their community. You can't compare that to Ireland, systems need to be changed.

    I chose New Zealand because of the OP reference to Ireland population, inaccurate as it was. Using population as the barometer for sporting success falls flat on its face on many facets but NZ felt like a very apt example to prove my point.


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    #1046
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭almostover


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    We could have been but sadly when you aren’t organized and make mistakes combined these tight games go against you. Something had to be done, weather it’s bringing in new blood who aren’t used to the set up and might bring some different or someone to come in and advise us how to attack properly.

    I see you're point in respect to our attack and its very justified. I think where we have regressed most is the silly defensive errors however. Even under Schmidt we never had a razor sharp attack. What we had were some excellent set piece moves and strike plays and a super mean defence that gave nothing away. It only took 2-3 well executed moves per game for us to win because we gave the opposition no easy points, both from the boot or from tries. Since Farrell has taken over we've not improved our attack play one iota and we're making numerous defensive mistakes gifting our opposition easy points. For me any good team is built on a mean defence. Once that is nailed you can add attacking flair.


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    #1047
    laguacamaya
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭laguacamaya


    My cat would have that back-line purring in no time. (Though he does spend an inordinate amount of time smoking opium and listening to Jazz.)


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    #1048
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    walshb wrote: »
    Who said NZls population was an issue?

    Are you reading what is being written?

    You mentioned us only having 4 professional teams was a problem, NZL have 5 that they realistically can pick from (please don’t embarrass yourself by countering that point with the mitre 10 cup).


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    #1049
    davepatr07
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭davepatr07


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    You said population was an issue, NZL debunk that argument, next excuse please.
    I did not say population was an issue I replied to PokeHerKing who was bringing up the issue with population. Some people just can't see the facts. No excuse...NZ are better at rugby for reason....it all comes down to grass roots... Back to Irish rugby, improvement needed at grassroots and systems, also mentality as ROG alluded to in interview.


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    #1050
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,775 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    You mentioned us only having 4 professional teams was a problem, NZL have 5 that they realistically can pick from (please don’t embarrass yourself by countering that point with the mitre 10 cup).

    Ok, you have me mixed up

    I never said/mentioned we having 4 pro teams..


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    #1051
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,298 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    walshb wrote: »
    Good one.

    Rugby is NZls national game..

    They eat, live and breathe the sport for chrissake!

    Wales the same!

    You don't even know the population of the island that our rugby team is drawn from. You're out of your depth.


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