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Ireland v France 2021 6n

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    #992
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,058 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    So you are saying Andy Farrell is doing as great a job as Galthie right? Simple question.

    What has this to do with the comparisons in my post?


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    #993
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,058 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    Can you stop with the negativity.

    I’m not the one slagging our team for losing a rugby match by a score to France..


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    #994
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,940 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    its_phil wrote: »
    By the end of the 6N, Andy Farrell has a big decision to make about his back room staff. Wipe the slate, bar POC, or back the current staff going into games with New Zealand and Argentina.

    Going to be interesting.

    Our scrum is a bigger positive than lineout I think. Held its own with just 7 men last week and was ultra solid against a mammoth France pack.


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    #995
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Farrell could do with someone from the outside looking at our back play, one big positive from these two games is our pack looks to be back and firing and surprisingly beat the French upfront today, I’m actually not dreading the game with England now. Our attack could use a similar fix, either get a backs coach in (Catt is an attack coach, not the backs coach technically) or maybe get someone like Graham Henry in like Leinster did for afew weeks just to give some tips, the players we have in that backline shouldn’t be as one dimensional as they are.


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    #996
    Tommybojangles
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭Tommybojangles


    Unfortunate not to snatch it, could have gone either way but the lack of ideas in attack is what's costing us. No need to fly off the handle, lots of turnover at the moment and we're working towards our best team which isn't a disaster 18 months after the World Cup.

    Kelleher did OK in his time on the pitch and I reckon he'll get the start next time? I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see Burns again, Ross is more deserving of more chances but its hard to see us having a top quality 10 going into 2023


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    #997
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    walshb wrote: »
    I’m not the one slagging our team for losing a rugby match by a score to France..

    Your saying we shouldn’t have a chance at all though - nothing constructive about that. We should have a chance we were better than France for much of the last decade.

    Also wins against Scotland and Georgia aren’t exactly metrics to say we don’t have a problem.


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    #998
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Ah yeah, I'm going to answer your strawman question while you refuse to answer mine. Good luck with that.

    I’m guessing your answer is no.

    Your question is irrelevant because our coaching staff has got them best out of the resources at their disposal and if that’s the case it’s a mute point. It’s excuses like this that leads to 0 improvement in the team and inevitably getting knocked out in the RWC QF.


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    #999
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,772 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Utah_Saint wrote: »
    Ferris...! Be still my beating heart.

    I'd have to ask, what has Catt done with this team? No power plays or tricky back moves.

    Beginning to think this myself, but they have to generate quick ball for the backs to be able to do anything. Either we produce a brutal ball carrier or we improve our rucking


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    #1000
    Utopia Parkway
    Registered Users Posts: 17,335 ✭✭✭✭Utopia Parkway


    Clegg wrote: »
    Our scrum is a bigger positive than lineout I think. Held its own with just 7 men last week and was ultra solid against a mammoth France pack.

    The pack and set-piece in general has been very good.

    The good news stops at number 8 though. Apart from Henshaw at 12 who's been good.


  • Options
    #1001
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    walshb wrote: »
    What has this to do with the comparisons in my post?
    I'm seeing a pattern here.
    Gets annoying
    Not really worth wasting time with
    Obvious solution
    Really works
    Every time.


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    #1002
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    walshb wrote: »
    What has this to do with the comparisons in my post?

    You seem to be saying that this comparison means it’s okay for our coaching to be mediocre.


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    #1003
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    awec wrote: »
    We didn’t replace Ryan with Henderson. Henderson has been a regular Ireland starter for years.

    Agree fully, a former Lion too. My point is we have plenty of depth in the pack. We're struggling from 9-15 though.


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    #1004
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    I’m guessing your answer is no.

    Your question is irrelevant because our coaching staff has got them best out of the resources at their disposal and if that’s the case it’s a mute point. It’s excuses like this that leads to 0 improvement in the team and inevitably getting knocked out in the RWC QF.
    So you won't answer it for obvious reasons and instead are going to make stuff up I didn't say.


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    #1005
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Tommybojangles wrote: »
    Kelleher did OK in his time on the pitch and I reckon he'll get the start next time?

    Or dare I say it, Sean Cronin?


  • Options
    #1006
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    Your saying we shouldn’t have a chance at all though - nothing constructive about that. We should have a chance we were better than France for much of the last decade.

    Also wins against Scotland and Georgia aren’t exactly metrics to say we don’t have a problem.

    Apparently because we are small it’s okay for our coaches to be mediocre.


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    #1007
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,058 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    Your saying we shouldn’t have a chance at all though - nothing constructive about that. We should have a chance we were better than France for much of the last decade.

    Also wins against Scotland and Georgia aren’t exactly metrics to say we don’t have a problem.

    No. I am not..

    Of course we should have a chance, and we clearly have going by our beating France and England many times..this shows how good we can be, even when clearly not having the same level of resources, professionalism, pool etc..

    I am saying that it is absolute no disgrace to lose a rugby match to the likes of France..

    There is serious buzz here: we win. The opposition were crap. We lose. We’re crap..


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    #1008
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    So you won't answer it for obvious reasons and instead are going to make stuff up I didn't say.

    You seem to be suggesting that Andy Farrell is doing a good job, is he?


  • Options
    #1009
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,772 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Tommybojangles wrote: »
    Unfortunate not to snatch it, could have gone either way but the lack of ideas in attack is what's costing us. No need to fly off the handle, lots of turnover at the moment and we're working towards our best team which isn't a disaster 18 months after the World Cup.

    Kelleher did OK in his time on the pitch and I reckon he'll get the start next time? I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see Burns again, Ross is more deserving of more chances but its hard to see us having a top quality 10 going into 2023

    Byrne is a good kicker, but Ireland went backwards when he was orchestrating the attack, I don't think he is any more or less deserving than Burns. But I think we all know that neither are the answer.


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    #1010
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    Think the forwards have done really well over the two games. Plenty of territory and possession. Solid set piece.

    The back play though has been absolutely septic. Very little threat with ball in hand. Ball being shoveled on laterally. Nobody straightening a line apart from Henshaw. And they've defended the wings very poorly.

    Not seeing what Mike Catt is bringing to the party so far?

    Agreed, the forwards have been great in the last 2 games, ball presentation in particular has been impressive. The problems start when the ball has been sprayed out to the backs. The same predictable smash ball every time.

    The buck stops with Catt like you say. There is no discernible attack pattern that could be attributed to him.


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    #1011
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »
    Whatever about Henderson, he played well, but Ruddock didn't perform. He made 10 carries for 10 metres and made 7 tackles. Now stats aren't everything but given that he's not a set piece specialist or a jackal those are some pretty poor numbers. By contrast Stander made 44 metres and double the carries. Ruddock also only made 1 pass. I'm not trying to **** on him, he deserved to be given a go after on provincial form but that was a poor outing.

    I thought he did well enough. Disruptive at the French line out. I was disappointed when Coombes was dropped from the squad. Ruddock deserved his shot today and did fine. Problem isn't up front. 9 &10 is where we are goosed.


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    #1012
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Nothing will change until something is done about our backline, consider the players we have there our back play is actually a complete joke.


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    #1013
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,058 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    You seem to be saying that this comparison means it’s okay for our coaching to be mediocre.

    I never at all mentioned coaches!


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    #1014
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,940 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    The pack and set-piece in general has been very good.

    The good news stops at number 8 though. Apart from Henshaw at 12 who's been good.

    Ringrose and Keenan have shown flashes of quality in both games too. But our backs as a unit are poor. There's nobody looking for offloads, cutting a line or even doing the basics of fixing a defender before passing. If it happens to a player once or twice a game you can chalk that down to individual error. But all the backs are making the same mistakes constantly. That's a major coaching issues.


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    #1015
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Utopia Parkway wrote: »
    The pack and set-piece in general has been very good.

    The good news stops at number 8 though. Apart from Henshaw at 12 who's been good.

    Hugo Keenan is good too, but needs more test experience. And when Larmour is fully recovered and Stockdale is back, the back 5 will be fairly solid.

    Billy Burns is great for Ulster but has been underwhelming in the last two matches, Ross Byrne more reliable and of course we have Jack Carthy and Iain Madigan too to choose from.

    JGP is better than Murray IMO, but I am not sure he quite fits into the Schmidt style of slow deliberate play. Farrell seems to be trying to move away from that style and into a more free flowing passing game, but they aren't there yet. Luke McGrath and John Cooney are better in form scrum halves at the moment IMO.

    Earls should probably be an impact sub at this stage in his career. It's neither fair to him nor to the squad to expect 80 mins of high octane rugby from him


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    #1016
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    walshb wrote: »
    Are you for real?

    A country the size of France with its history of Rugby, finances, professionalism and clubs and pools..

    You think an island of 5 million where GAA is completely dominant, followed by soccer is on the same playing field as France?

    Are you for real? There's nearly 7 million on our island and New Zealand have a much smaller population with huge interest in multiple sports. Stop talking $hite.


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    #1017
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,745 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Well today we had a glimpse of a future that is close (closer then some want) of a new landscape of new scrum halves and kicker. Should start now. Maybe we need to allow some to go abroad to get games and still let them be picked. Also in other opertunities pick the new players more and blood them in


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    #1018
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    walshb wrote: »
    No. I am not..

    Of course we should have a chance, and we clearly have going by our beating France and England many times..this shows how good we can be, even when clearly not having the same level of resources, professionalism, pool etc..

    I am saying that it is absolute no disgrace to lose a rugby match to the likes of France..

    There is serious buzz here: we win. The opposition were crap. We lose. We’re crap..

    But we were crap, based on passed performances and where we were at.

    France were not clinical today, we literally offered nothing going forward.

    We can do better and we should demand that of our national team.

    I wouldn’t say it’s a disgrace to lose to France at all but it is a disgrace to keep making the same boring decisions and play the same boring game plan. You can’t put that down to France being a bigger country and having more teams.

    Doing the same thing over and over again is the definition of insanity.


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    #1019
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Hugo Keenan is good too, but needs more test experience. And when Larmour is fully recovered and Stockdale is back, the back 5 will be fairly solid.

    Billy Burns is great for Ulster but has been underwhelming in the last two matches, Ross Byrne more reliable and of course we have Jack Carthy and Iain Madigan too to choose from.

    JGP is better than Murray IMO, but I am not sure he quite fits into the Schmidt style of slow deliberate play. Farrell seems to be trying to move away from that style and into a more free flowing passing game, but they aren't there yet. Luke McGrath and John Cooney are better in form scrum halves at the moment IMO.

    Earls should probably be an impact sub at this stage in his career. It's neither fair to him nor to the squad to expect 80 mins of high octane rugby from him

    Not sure I agree with your rating of JGP. He was erratic at best today. Granted he clears the ball faster from the ruck than Murray but he threw a few unsympathetic passes, was poor in the air, offered very little around the fringes and was caught out badly for the 1st try. Personally I'd rather see us back the likes of Craig Casey or Caolan Blade. Or John Cooney who would give us a goal kicking option too. It think Ireland learned today who isn't up to international level rather than found a few players who are.


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    #1020
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    walshb wrote: »
    I never at all mentioned coaches!

    Comparing teams is a mute point when the coaching comparison drops short.


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    #1021
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,300 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    But we were crap, based on passed performances and where we were at.

    France were not clinical today, we literally offered nothing going forward.

    We can do better and we should demand that of our national team.

    I wouldn’t say it’s a disgrace to lose to France at all but it is a disgrace to keep making the same boring decisions and play the same boring game plan. You can’t put that down to France being a bigger country and having more teams.

    Doing the same thing over and over again is the definition of insanity.

    what does that even mean?


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