Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

pm1977x · 13-02-2021 08:06PM

DaSilva wrote: »

Let's be real here. If they were "soft" on covid they are guaranteed to lose their seats at next election. Unfortunately the public will burn politicians for countries covid performance whether they are really responsible or even capable of influencing the numbers. The political reality is that they must appear "tough" on covid. So yeah they actually are prepared to "burn the economy to the ground" if they look virtuous for having done so

This sinister plot to ''burn the economy to the ground'' just doesn't add up, people hate higher taxes and cruddy public services more than they love ''virtuous'' politicians, they'll lose far more votes than they'll gain.

Boggles · 13-02-2021 08:10PM

ypres5 wrote: »

i mean in the way the government talk about their plans for opening up or the lack of them. a vaccine should bring an end to this but they're already talking about restrictions into summer and Autumn, only being able to visit a beach in your locality for the summer and more lockdown in winter 21 and continuing restrictions going into 2022

Vaccines will bring an end to this.

Governments will always be cautious, it's part of managing expectations.

Our last budget was framed around a no deal Brexit and no vaccines.

There will be some party when all this is over, I'm only jealous I'm not younger, with all the pent frustration out there, a young fella will need 2 mickeys to cope.

dalyboy · 13-02-2021 08:14PM

ypres5 wrote: »

i mean in the way the government talk about their plans for opening up or the lack of them. a vaccine should bring an end to this but they're already talking about restrictions into summer and Autumn, only being able to visit a beach in your locality for the summer and more lockdown in winter 21 and continuing restrictions going into 2022

It’s possible Israel will pave the way for the rest of the world. Just copy and paste (albeit at a slower pace) .

If we don’t follow their exit strategy over the coming 2-3 months then political heads should seriously roll. Enough of the stuttering and stammering and just get on with reopening the country FFS.

It’d be great to see some of these crackpot medical guys eating humble pie (like the BS 3-5 years restrictions mumbo jumbo) and needing to concede their dooms day narrative.

Silentcorner · 13-02-2021 08:17PM

dalyboy wrote: »

It’s possible Israel will pave the way for the rest of the world. Just copy and paste (albeit at a slower pace) .

If we don’t follow their exit strategy over the coming 2-3 months then political heads should seriously roll. Enough of the stuttering and stammering and just get on with reopening the country FFS.

It’d be great to see some of these crackpot medical guys eating humble pie (like the BS 3-5 years restrictions mumbo jumbo) and needing to concede their dooms day narrative.

There shouldn't be a Government TD, let alone Minister, who isn't being bombarded by media, local and national about our vaccination rollout, this should be what decides whether this Government falls or not...

pm1977x · 13-02-2021 08:18PM

ypres5 wrote: »

define the general selfishness of the ordinary citizens? being a bit ticked off at having to be living under restrictions for another year with several vaccines being rolled out and more to come? i don't understand your mindset anymore we're not talking about a few weeks or months of lockdown anymore

Where to start? shebeens, fake letters at the airport, fake dental appointments, GAA piss-ups because they lost/won, Belmullet at Christmas, goings on in Rathkeale, massive funerals wakes and afters, golfgate, Cheltenham, RTE going away party, people booking multiple tables to get around group restrictions, those dopes in Zoo Bar vs people quietly doing their bit to help their fellow man and try to end this sooner.

Charles Babbage · 13-02-2021 08:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi folks,
To the TD’s of Ireland

I am writing to you all today in the hope that at least somebody will finally start to listen to one of the many concerned citizens of this country. Come April, this country will have been in lockdown for 6 of the previous 7 months. And it is extremely unlikely that much will change then based on the words coming from our Taoiseach, Tanaiste and NPHET. We have already endured the longest and harshest restrictions in all of Europe but the goalposts appear to be shifting further and further apart everyday. Several experts are now saying that restrictions will still be required even after the country is vaccinated.

It goes without saying that these lockdowns are causing an avalanche of issues in society. And while I’d love to elaborate in detail on each point, I’d prefer to keep this mail concise so I’ll bullet point them below:

Half a million people currently unemployed
Almost 250 Billion Euro national debt
Cancer screenings and other treatments cancelled (Breast Check was down two thirds in 2020)
Children not receiving a proper education
All citizens prisoned within 5km of their homes
Mental Health deteriorating
Pregnant women not allowed to have birthing partners at appointments
People terrified by dishonest media reporting
Domestic abuse increasing
Construction closed for periods during the largest housing crisis the country has ever faced
Social Issues

Why is there so little vocal opposition or even questioning to all of this in the media and from our TDs? Surely there are more practical solutions that can be explored that don’t involve locking down an entire nation? Antigen testing, airport controls, increased ICU capacity, improved tracing to name just a few.

These lockdowns are inhumane and unsustainable on so many levels. Nobody is asking for the government to let the virus rip through the population and kill off the vulnerable. Nobody wants lockdown to end just so they can go and fill up on pints. But the 5km rule should be scrapped with immediate effect. People should be encouraged to go out and get fresh air. Meeting family and friends needs to be allowed in some form with immediate effect also. These are basic human rights. And schools should also reopen immediately so our children can get a normal education again. If we have more Covid related deaths as a result then so be it. There needs to be balance. The needs of the many must outweigh the needs of the few.

Nobody is asking for normality to return tomorrow. And people can appreciate that these are challenging times. But what we really need is some hope. Hope that one day life will be worth living again. Because at the moment, we are simply surviving with the country on life support.
And we already know what lies ahead… austerity.

Please do whatever you can to push for an end to this unsustainable, never ending lockdown.

An immediate sign of a false analysis which is designed to deliberately confuse rater than inform is the correlation of things like cancer tests with lockdown. These issues with the health service arise because it is under pressure and that pressure is reduced by lockdown. You can make the case that there is economic damage, you can make the case that there is health damage, but these are mutually exclusive and it is fundamentally dishonest to put both together as if they were the same thing. Yet this dishonest presentation has multiple thanks, it makes you wonder about people.

Silentcorner · 13-02-2021 08:24PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

An immediate sign of a false analysis which is designed to deliberately confuse rater than inform is the correlation of things like cancer tests with lockdown. These issues with the health service arise because it is under pressure and that pressure is reduced by lockdown. You can make the case that there is economic damage, you can make the case that there is health damage, but these are mutually exclusive and it is fundamentally dishonest to put both together as if they were the same thing. Yet this dishonest presentation has multiple thanks, it makes you wonder about people.

No, stopping cancer screenings and missing heart disease diagnosis will have huge mid term issues for our health system and our death rate as these ailments affect most age adult age groups...we also know that Covid is hardest on people with these kinds of diagnosis....health problems don't disappear if you ignore them, in fact, they get worse!!!

It make's you wonder about people alright...how the f##k can you not see the massive health problem we are creating for ourselves that we will have to face...as sure as night follows day!

ypres5 · 13-02-2021 08:24PM

Boggles wrote: »

Vaccines will bring an end to this.

Governments will always be cautious, it's part of managing expectations.

Our last budget was framed around a no deal Brexit and no vaccines.

There will be some party when all this is over, I'm only jealous I'm not younger, with all the pent frustration out there, a young fella will need 2 mickeys to cope.

i understand that the government aren't going to declare a bonanza any time soon but the government's messaging is just so pessimistic that if by some miracle everyone got vaccinated tomorrow morning it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to their planning

Nozebleed · 13-02-2021 08:28PM

pm1977x wrote: »

Where to start? shebeens, fake letters at the airport, fake dental appointments, GAA piss-ups because they lost/won, Belmullet at Christmas, goings on in Rathkeale, massive funerals wakes and afters, golfgate, Cheltenham, RTE going away party, people booking multiple tables to get around group restrictions, those dopes in Zoo Bar vs people quietly doing their bit to help their fellow man and try to end this sooner.

you're watching to much RTE propaganda.

ypres5 · 13-02-2021 08:31PM

pm1977x wrote: »

Where to start? shebeens, fake letters at the airport, fake dental appointments, GAA piss-ups because they lost/won, Belmullet at Christmas, goings on in Rathkeale, massive funerals wakes and afters, golfgate, Cheltenham, RTE going away party, people booking multiple tables to get around group restrictions, those dopes in Zoo Bar vs people quietly doing their bit to help their fellow man and try to end this sooner.

to be fair i think the vast majority of irish people have done the right thing and i think even the rule breakers have been much more under the radar than in other places. there were riots in spain and italy over restrictions

13-02-2021 08:36PM

Boggles wrote: »

Vaccines will bring an end to this.

Governments will always be cautious, it's part of managing expectations.

Our last budget was framed around a no deal Brexit and no vaccines.

There will be some party when all this is over, I'm only jealous I'm not younger, with all the pent frustration out there, a young fella will need 2 mickeys to cope.

Ya keep believing this, what's the odds on a new strain etc etc and keeping this horse crap going, it's been one year now and believe me the worst is yet to come. Start searching for the other side of the story and have a long hard think about where this is going in the long run

ypres5 · 13-02-2021 08:39PM

tommybrees wrote: »

Ya keep believing this, what's the odds on a new strain etc etc and keeping this horse crap going, it's been one year now and believe me the worst is yet to come. Start searching for the other side of the story and have a long hard think about where this is going in the long run

i must say this new variant guff is really getting me worried as to when they plan on ending this

SnuggyBear · 13-02-2021 08:39PM

tommybrees wrote: »

Ya keep believing this, what's the odds on a new strain etc etc and keeping this horse crap going, it's been one year now and believe me the worst is yet to come. Start searching for the other side of the story and have a long hard think about where this is going in the long run

I definitely agree this year will be worse than last year.

dalyboy · 13-02-2021 08:39PM

pm1977x wrote: »

Where to start? shebeens, fake letters at the airport, fake dental appointments, GAA piss-ups because they lost/won, Belmullet at Christmas, goings on in Rathkeale, massive funerals wakes and afters, golfgate, Cheltenham, RTE going away party, people booking multiple tables to get around group restrictions, those dopes in Zoo Bar vs people quietly doing their bit to help their fellow man and try to end this sooner.

Selfish ?
How dare human beings act and behave like human beings . Utterly outrageous, criminals every one of them.

13-02-2021 08:43PM

pm1977x wrote: »

Where to start? shebeens, fake letters at the airport, fake dental appointments, GAA piss-ups because they lost/won, Belmullet at Christmas, goings on in Rathkeale, massive funerals wakes and afters, golfgate, Cheltenham, RTE going away party, people booking multiple tables to get around group restrictions, those dopes in Zoo Bar vs people quietly doing their bit to help their fellow man and try to end this sooner.

What you have described right there to me seems to be, people making there own decisions and knowing the risks involved. If you don't wanna get involved in that kinda stuff then by all means stay at home with your Mask and social distance from the rest of us. We know the consequences so anybody that wants to go for a pint, haircut, travel 6km from home or play sports or go to a gym for there own mental health then we should absolu6have the choice to do so. HSE GETS OVER 21 BILLION TO RUN IT'S SERVICE FOR A POPULATION LESS THAN MANCHESTER, MAYBE THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE NEED TO START BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHERE THIS MONEY GOES.

dalyboy · 13-02-2021 08:46PM

ypres5 wrote: »

i must say this new variant guff is really getting me worried as to when they plan on ending this

To borrow a phrase from the great Alex Higgins. They can shove their “variant” virus up right up their jacksy.

pm1977x · 13-02-2021 08:54PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Selfish ?
How dare human beings act and behave like human beings . Utterly outrageous, criminals every one of them.

There's this thing called a pandemic? once in a lifetime event? you might have heard of it?

pm1977x · 13-02-2021 08:57PM

Nozebleed wrote: »

you're watching to much RTE propaganda.

nope. I have many varied sources of news, but it's the easy option to call something propaganda if it doesn't suit your own closed narrative.

dalyboy · 13-02-2021 09:01PM

pm1977x wrote: »

There's this thing called a pandemic? once in a lifetime event? you might have heard of it?

No , pandemic? sorry I’ve not heard of it at all.
If you are talking about the greatest over reaction in human history from a virus that kills 0.4% of the population then I think you need to reappraise the meaning of the word.

I know 20+ people who have had this farce BUG ranging from 25-80 years old and every one of them have had zero to slight symptoms (some of them said they felt tired earlier than usual for a couple of days other than that nada)

Pandemic? Give me a break will yah

pm1977x · 13-02-2021 09:05PM

dalyboy wrote: »

No , pandemic? sorry I’ve not heard of it at all.
If you are talking about the greatest over reaction in human history from a virus that kills 0.4% of the population then I think you need to reappraise the meaning of the word.

I know 20+ people who have had this farce BUG ranging from 25-80 years old and every one of them have had zero to slight symptoms (some of them said they felt tired earlier than usual for a couple of days other than that nada)

Pandemic? Give me a break will yah

Ah right, there is no pandemic, grand so, happy days! :rolleyes:

Boggles · 13-02-2021 09:09PM

ypres5 wrote: »

to be fair i think the vast majority of irish people have done the right thing and i think even the rule breakers have been much more under the radar than in other places. there were riots in spain and italy over restrictions

Was there?

I know there was a small protest by some anti-vax group in Madrid last month, but it was peaceful. The biggest protests in Spain have actually been health care workers.

Haven't heard any rioting in Italy.

There was a peaceful protest in Holland which was hijacked by racists and scum criminals who wrecked businesses and threw paving stones at police.

Small flair up in Denmark where some burned an effigy of the Prime Minister.

ypres5 · 13-02-2021 09:15PM

Boggles wrote: »

Was there?

I know there was a small protest by some anti-vax group in Madrid last month, but it was peaceful. The biggest protests in Spain have actually been health care workers.

Haven't heard any rioting in Italy.

There was a peaceful protest in Holland which was hijacked by racists and scum criminals who wrecked businesses and threw paving stones at police.

Small flair up in Denmark where some burned an effigy of the Prime Minister.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-54701042&ved=2ahUKEwi0yLiS2efuAhVFoVwKHSseDgUQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1xI5x1sVYaVqjsYj2KHYx7&ampcf=1

this was back in October but I remember there were some protests in southern Italy and Turin as well i think. i do think the appetite for lockdown is dying off a bit. i don't think you can put it all down to the far right kicking off and the protests in vienna seem to be very much made up of ordinary people

wakka12 · 13-02-2021 09:38PM

dalyboy wrote: »

No , pandemic? sorry I’ve not heard of it at all.
If you are talking about the greatest over reaction in human history from a virus that kills 0.4% of the population then I think you need to reappraise the meaning of the word.

I know 20+ people who have had this farce BUG ranging from 25-80 years old and every one of them have had zero to slight symptoms (some of them said they felt tired earlier than usual for a couple of days other than that nada)

Pandemic? Give me a break will yah

Definition of a pandemic does not indicate any level of severity of the illness . At what arbitrary cut off point of poor health outcomes does one get to declare it a pandemic? Pandemic just means an unstable/uncontrolled outbreak of a disease that becomes prevalent across the world, swine flu was a pandemic too and only killed 12,000 people in the US for example.

darconio · 13-02-2021 09:40PM

In italy, excluding the initial 3 months, they never really locked down everything again. They tailored restrictions based on the numbers of positive, and still the majority was able to get on with their lives. I'm thinking about cafes, getting an haircut, going to work and only recently they also reopened some ski resort.
You need to give something to people, I guess nothing happened here yet because they managed to put a lid on it by introducing and abusing the PUP. This will have to be repaid by the generations to come so not sure it has been a wise choice

Seweryn · 13-02-2021 09:44PM

pm1977x wrote: »

Ah right, there is no pandemic, grand so, happy days! :rolleyes:

Switch off your telly for a moment and switch on thinking. What can you see around you including the numbers that would actually suggest that we have a pand...?

A significant increase in death rates comparing with previous years? No.
More overwhelmed hospitals than in other seasons? No.

Can you not see with your own eyes that there is something else brewing in the background and that all these things just don't add up?

wakka12 · 13-02-2021 09:45PM

darconio wrote: »

In italy, excluding the initial 3 months, they never really locked down everything again. They tailored restrictions based on the numbers of positive, and still the majority was able to get on with their lives. I'm thinking about cafes, getting an haircut, going to work and only recently they also reopened some ski resort.
You need to give something to people, I guess nothing happened here yet because they managed to put a lid on it by introducing and abusing the PUP. This will have to be repaid by the generations to come so not sure it has been a wise choice

Italy has relaxed the rules for people within their local areas but very strict inter regional travel rules so that local restrictions can be applied within one region if needs be. I'm sure it's a nightmare for people who need to travel for work or whatever but maybe paying these people off to work from home rather than everyone and really enforcing the lack of movement between regions would be a better means of controlling spread nationwide while still allowing a vast majority of the population a somewhat normal quality of life.

Graham · 13-02-2021 09:47PM

Seweryn wrote: »

Can you not see with your own eyes that there is something else brewing in the background and that all these things just don't add up?

2.3 million dead so far.

How does that add up for you?

suicide_circus · 13-02-2021 09:55PM

Graham wrote: »

2.3 million dead so far.

How does that add up for you?

Do we know what the 'excess' figure is?

dalyboy · 13-02-2021 09:55PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Definition of a pandemic does not indicate any level of severity of the illness . At what arbitrary cut off point of poor health outcomes does one get to declare it a pandemic? Pandemic just means an unstable/uncontrolled outbreak of a disease that becomes prevalent across the world, swine flu was a pandemic too and only killed 12,000 people in the US for example.

Ok.
What’s the difference from standard influenza & what you’ve copy and pasted above. ?
Bear in mind that influenza/ pneumonia etc has killed thousands upon thousands world wide seasonally for centuries. Influenza checks with those parameters too.

Also please tell me when we last burned entire economies to the ground and destroyed the fabric of our society.

Then try and tell me it’s not an over reaction.

Seweryn · 13-02-2021 09:56PM

Graham wrote: »

2.3 million dead so far.

How does that add up for you?

It doesn't.

Just show us the overall excess deaths in number of deaths per million in a given period of time (i.e. one year) comparing with say average from the previous 5 - 10 years.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings