Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

LasersGoPewPew

Silentcorner wrote: »

No, stopping cancer screenings and missing heart disease diagnosis will have huge mid term issues for our health system and our death rate as these ailments affect most age adult age groups...we also know that Covid is hardest on people with these kinds of diagnosis....health problems don't disappear if you ignore them, in fact, they get worse!!!

It make's you wonder about people alright...how the f##k can you not see the massive health problem we are creating for ourselves that we will have to face...as sure as night follows day!

It is a shambles. No doubt there are countless people with health conditions going untreated due to this dung. My partner has a rare heart condition and got a procedure done private in October which failed to rectify the problem. Her followups have been cancelled twice and she desperately needs to get it fixed. Unless she collapses and is rushed to hospital, she won't get the specialist treatment she needs.

wakka12

Seweryn wrote: »

Switch off your telly for a moment and switch on thinking. What can you see around you including the numbers that would actually suggest that we have a pand...?

A significant increase in death rates comparing with previous years? No.
More overwhelmed hospitals than in other seasons? No.

Can you not see with your own eyes that there is something else brewing in the background and that all these things just don't add up?

Even if Ireland saw a huge jump in death rate in 2020 like Europe did, you'd still be saying same thing though. People like you in the UK saying exact same thing despite their excess deaths at probably 120,000+ by now from the last 11 months

What's brewing Seweryn? What? Like what brewed in Isle of Man that recently led to dropping of all restrictions? Or multiple other regions of the world that felt the virus was suppressed enough that the restrictions were no longer needed?

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

2.3 million dead so far.

How does that add up for you?

Let’s put some perspective on that Graham and remember 3 millions kids starve to death each year.

Perspective is important in this 1st world crisis

wakka12

dalyboy wrote: »

Ok.
What’s the difference from standard influenza & what you’ve copy and pasted above. ?
Bear in mind that influenza/ pneumonia etc has killed thousands upon thousands world wide seasonally for centuries. Influenza checks with those parameters too.

Also please tell me when we last burned entire economies to the ground and destroyed the fabric of our society.

Then try and tell me it’s not an over reaction.

Influenza epidemics are not unstable due to their low/predictable R0. Which separates it from being a pandemic.

Never said that it wasn't an overreaction.

normanoffside

Graham wrote: »

2.3 million dead so far.

How does that add up for you?

There are 7.8 billion in the world about 60 million die every year.
The world population is still growing rapidly.

Charles Babbage

Silentcorner wrote: »

No, stopping cancer screenings and missing heart disease diagnosis will have huge mid term issues for our health system and our death rate as these ailments affect most age adult age groups...we also know that Covid is hardest on people with these kinds of diagnosis....health problems don't disappear if you ignore them, in fact, they get worse!!!

It make's you wonder about people alright...how the f##k can you not see the massive health problem we are creating for ourselves that we will have to face...as sure as night follows day!

Of course I see the problem, it was only a few months before Covid that I was in that process myself. Did you even read my post? These cancer services are reduced because the health service is under pressure from Covid, yet these services were used as an excuse by another poster to reduce the restrictions that will reduce Covid. Doesn't this false associstion make you angry?

Ombudsman for children now expressing concern about the regression of children and their mental health during this pandemic. Great to hear that someone is thinking of our children as the gov. certainly seem to have forgotten them completely.

Graham

suicide_circus wrote: »

Do we know what the 'excess' figure is?

Here's a small selection for you. Obviously varies depending on the individual country and the robustness of the response.

niallo27

gansi wrote: »

Ombudsman for children now expressing concern about the regression of children and their mental health during this pandemic. Great to hear that someone is thinking of our children as the gov. certainly seem to have forgotten them completely.

It will make **** all difference, nphet only has one remit and that is covid and **** anybody and anything that's suggests otherwise.

niallo27

Graham wrote: »

Here's a small selection for you. Obviously varies depending on the individual country and the robustness of the response.

How come Sweden is so low, good spot from you with Sweden.

wakka12

Graham wrote: »

Here's a small selection for you. Obviously varies depending on the individual country and the robustness of the response.

What's goin on in Israel !

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

Here's a small selection for you. Obviously varies depending on the individual country and the robustness of the response.

We have no reference points for historical comparison for this data.

suicide_circus

gansi wrote: »

Ombudsman for children now expressing concern about the regression of children and their mental health during this pandemic. Great to hear that someone is thinking of our children as the gov. certainly seem to have forgotten them completely.

Acceptable collateral damage

Graham

niallo27 wrote: »

How come Sweden is so low, good spot from you with Sweden.

Pretty sh*t compared to their neighbours in fairness

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

It will make **** all difference, nphet only has one remit and that is covid and **** anybody and anything that's suggests otherwise.

You may be right but hope you are not.There’s a tsunami of mental health problems coming down the tracks, children and adults, depression, anxiety, people addicted to anti depressants, other addictions, probably obesity too and general unhealthiness. At what point is the cure worse than the disease??

FintanMcluskey

suicide_circus wrote: »

Acceptable collateral damage

This generation near retirement is making the decisions, and will ensure the ladder is up after them

growleaves

Graham wrote: »

Pretty sh*t compared to their neighbours in fairness

You forget to say 'Nordic'. They are the within the average of their EU neighbours.

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We have no reference points for historical comparison for this data.

Apart from where it tells you underneath the title and shows you on each graph?

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

Apart from where it tells you underneath the title and shows you on each graph?

No, the other reference points are averages.

We need comparison’s year on year.

Those graphs make perspective difficult

walus

dalyboy wrote: »

Ok.
What’s the difference from standard influenza & what you’ve copy and pasted above. ?
Bear in mind that influenza/ pneumonia etc has killed thousands upon thousands world wide seasonally for centuries. Influenza checks with those parameters too.

Also please tell me when we last burned entire economies to the ground and destroyed the fabric of our society.

Then try and tell me it’s not an over reaction.

Pneumonia and tuberculosis kill 5m per year.

Seweryn

Graham wrote: »

Apart from where it tells you underneath the title and shows you on each graph?

It says:

"Versus recent years" - which years? 2019? Which was the lowest in deaths in recent history or average from number of previous years? How many years?

Secondly - there are just death numbers with no relation to the annual population growth (and growing death rates). So, the basic maths need a bit of "tweaking".

Graham

Seweryn wrote: »

Secondly - there are just death numbers with no relation to the annual population growth (and growing death rates). So, the basic maths need a bit of "tweaking".

because we're pretending population growth is responsible for 18%/26%/59% jumps in deaths.

If you pull the other one, it jingles.

Seweryn

Seweryn wrote: »

It says:

"Versus recent years" - which years? 2019? Which was the lowest in deaths in recent history or average from number of previous years? How many years?

Secondly - there are just death numbers with no relation to the annual population growth (and growing death rates). So, the basic maths need a bit of "tweaking".

Death rates have been falling. Total deaths growing slower than population growth.

Euromomo excess death monitoring for 27 countries involved identified approx. 350k extra deaths in those countries. Covid deaths accounted for approx 400k deaths in those countries. The difference between the two numbers is within normal annual variation. The excess deaths were more than 3.5 times the highest since the monitoring system started. The next highest was when there was the combination of extreme cold all over Europe and a very active flu season

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

The excess deaths were more than 3.5 times the highest since the monitoring system started. The next highest was when there was the combination of extreme cold all over Europe and a very active flu season

What year did the monitoring system start?

normanoffside

Somebody's been reading the emails.

https://twitter.com/John_McGahon/status/1360552471345717249

The vast, vast majority of those excess deaths occurred in the over 65s. People who are in the main retired, and whose income from month to month is not dependent on their ability to work and be productive out in the world. They have their retirement locked in.

So by all means let them shelter. Set up temporary services and employ and train younger people to help those at risk by delivering groceries to them and so on. And let the younger generations, for which many of the excess deaths are deaths of despair, be it suicide, alcohol and drugs, at-home abuse and so on, get back to living their damn lives so that we don't impoverish our children and our children's children even more.

Anyone looking at excess death data and not finding themselves incredibly concerned by a peak in younger people that does not in any way correlate with the pattern of death from Covid-19 is operating in bad faith.

wakka12

Seweryn wrote: »

It says:

"Versus recent years" - which years? 2019? Which was the lowest in deaths in recent history or average from number of previous years? How many years?

Secondly - there are just death numbers with no relation to the annual population growth (and growing death rates). So, the basic maths need a bit of "tweaking".

Convention is 5 years..
Yes tweaking is necessary but 5 years is used because demographics don't generally change dramatically enough in that time that the prediction of the death in year X based on those averages becomes inaccurate or irrelevant.

Growing and ageing population does not always equal increased death rate. Influx of young migrants will have a proportionally smaller increase on the typical annual mortality rates of a European country and advanacements in healthcare also prolong life expectancy.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281478/death-rate-united-kingdom-uk/

The 5 year average of deaths per 1000 in UK in 2013-2018 was
9.08 , while the average deaths per 1000 in the UK in 2003-2007 was 9.72 , despite median age in the UK jumping from 37.8 yrs in 2005 to 40 yrs in 2015. By your claims about increasing mortality rates each year it makes no sense that the UK with growing and ageing population saw dramatically higher mortality rates in the early milennium than in the last ten years.
Not dismissing your point but it's not as black and white as you say..clearly! A lot more to mortality rates than ageing.

Penfailed

Seweryn wrote: »

Switch off your telly for a moment and switch on thinking. What can you see around you including the numbers that would actually suggest that we have a pand...?

A significant increase in death rates comparing with previous years? No.
More overwhelmed hospitals than in other seasons? No.

Can you not see with your own eyes that there is something else brewing in the background and that all these things just don't add up?

What's brewing in the background? What doesn't add up?

FintanMcluskey

walus wrote: »

Pneumonia and tuberculosis kill 5m per year.

Diarrhoea kills 1.6 million per year

Perspective is important

ypres5

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Diarrhoea kills 1.6 million per year

Perspective is important

this is a bit off topic to what youre saying fintan but in regards to this whole thing of a global vaccine rollout being necessary before we fully open up, does anyone else find the notion of places without running water or sewage systems with a myriad of diseases being a fact of life suddenly making a world of fuss about covid a bit ridiculous