2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

Hubertj · 11-02-2021 10:22PM

I do not understand a €5m price differential here.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/grianblah-26-palmerston-park-rathmines-dublin-6/4460604

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/ananda-st-georges-avenue-killiney-co-dublin/4483719

Cyrus · 11-02-2021 10:41PM

Hubertj wrote: »

I do not understand a €5m price differential here.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/grianblah-26-palmerston-park-rathmines-dublin-6/4460604

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/ananda-st-georges-avenue-killiney-co-dublin/4483719

I was looking at the Killiney one today in the paper , it’s never a 10m house , sea views but too far from the sea and up a very narrow road.

I’d have thought 5 was more like it .

That said I don’t think the Rathmines house makes 5m either .

Both were built by the owners I’m sure at great expense so there will be an element of that in the optimistic pricing .

hometruths · 11-02-2021 11:05PM

Hubertj wrote: »

I do not understand a €5m price differential here.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/grianblah-26-palmerston-park-rathmines-dublin-6/4460604

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/ananda-st-georges-avenue-killiney-co-dublin/4483719

I saw the Killiney one in the paper and surprised myself by thinking it is pretty awesome - definitely not normally something I'd like, but if you're going to go all out and build a Bond villain type of lair I reckoned the owner had made pretty good go of it!

The Rathmines one is bit pastiche I think. No doubt very expensively built, finest finishes etc, but it does not really have a wow factor. It's definitely not unique in the way the Killiney one is. IMO.

Re pricing I'd say the Killiney one is asking 10m on the strength of the fact Conor McGregor is looking at 10m houses in the area. Presumably that would be right up his street!

Ninap · 11-02-2021 11:09PM

schmittel wrote: »

I saw the Killiney one in the paper and surprised myself by thinking it is pretty awesome - definitely not normally something I'd like, but if you're going to go all out and build a Bond villain type of lair I reckoned the owner had made pretty good go of it!

The Rathmines one is bit pastiche I think. No doubt very expensively built, finest finishes etc, but it does not really have a wow factor. It's definitely not unique in the way the Killiney one is. IMO.

Re pricing I'd say the Killiney one is asking 10m on the strength of the fact Conor McGregor is looking at 10m houses in the area. Presumably that would be right up his street!

I agree. The Rathmines one is a fairly ugly pastiche, with poor sized rooms, no views and very average finishes. It's also half the size of the Killiney one. Which is, whatever one thinks of the design, spectacular. It also looks very well built

awec · 11-02-2021 11:11PM

schmittel wrote: »

I saw the Killiney one in the paper and surprised myself by thinking it is pretty awesome - definitely not normally something I'd like, but if you're going to go all out and build a Bond villain type of lair I reckoned the owner had made pretty good go of it!

The Rathmines one is bit pastiche I think. No doubt very expensively built, finest finishes etc, but it does not really have a wow factor. It's definitely not unique in the way the Killiney one is. IMO.

Re pricing I'd say the Killiney one is asking 10m on the strength of the fact Conor McGregor is looking at 10m houses in the area. Presumably that would be right up his street!

I agree. The Rathmines one is just another of many very large houses in Dublin with decent land around them, with very little imagination gone into it's design.

If I had 10 million to buy a house I'd buy that Killiney one tomorrow.

Hubertj · 11-02-2021 11:22PM

schmittel wrote: »

I saw the Killiney one in the paper and surprised myself by thinking it is pretty awesome - definitely not normally something I'd like, but if you're going to go all out and build a Bond villain type of lair I reckoned the owner had made pretty good go of it!

The Rathmines one is bit pastiche I think. No doubt very expensively built, finest finishes etc, but it does not really have a wow factor. It's definitely not unique in the way the Killiney one is. IMO.

Re pricing I'd say the Killiney one is asking 10m on the strength of the fact Conor McGregor is looking at 10m houses in the area. Presumably that would be right up his street!

I do agree the killings house is a lot nicer, more modern etc but €5m difference is hard for me to compute..... imagine havin mcgregor has your neighbour..... oh dear

hometruths · 11-02-2021 11:23PM

awec wrote: »

I agree. The Rathmines one is just another of many very large houses in Dublin with decent land around them, with very little imagination gone into it's design.

If I had 10 million to buy a house I'd buy that Killiney one tomorrow.

Yep, I think I would too. Pricing might be optimistic/opportunistic but it is totally unique. It's not like you could pass on this confident that something similiar/better would come on the market.

awec · 11-02-2021 11:29PM

schmittel wrote: »

Yep, I think I would too. Pricing might be optimistic/opportunistic but it is totally unique. It's not like you could pass on this confident that something similiar/better would come on the market.

Yea exactly, not too many of those sort of gaffs in Ireland.

Waking up every morning to that view, tonnes of light and windows everywhere yet totally private. The terrace right outside the kitchen etc.

Whoever built it has taste. I think it'll sell easily. Some lucky bastard will snap it up.

Cyrus · 11-02-2021 11:51PM

If this hasn’t sold in a couple of years at under 9 I can’t see that getting 10, it’s too far up the hill and away from the sea to be prime Killiney / Dalkey imo

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-summerhill-marino-avenue-west-killiney-co-dublin/184890

But maybe I’ll be proven wrong, you’d hardly get a Range Rover up glenalua road

Cyrus · 11-02-2021 11:54PM

schmittel wrote: »

I saw the Killiney one in the paper and surprised myself by thinking it is pretty awesome - definitely not normally something I'd like, but if you're going to go all out and build a Bond villain type of lair I reckoned the owner had made pretty good go of it!

The Rathmines one is bit pastiche I think. No doubt very expensively built, finest finishes etc, but it does not really have a wow factor. It's definitely not unique in the way the Killiney one is. IMO.

Re pricing I'd say the Killiney one is asking 10m on the strength of the fact Conor McGregor is looking at 10m houses in the area. Presumably that would be right up his street!

Is McGregor still looking? Thought that rumour died a year ago but maybe it’s back again. Some of The kinahans were supposed to be moving in to a new estate a few years back too

a rival developer lost the run of himself making up stories apparently .

hometruths · 11-02-2021 11:59PM

Cyrus wrote: »

Is McGregor still looking? Thought that rumour died a year ago but maybe it’s back again. Some of The kinahans were supposed to be moving in to a new estate a few years back too a rival developer lost the run of himself making up stories apparently .

I know for certain McGregor was more than a rumour. No idea if he is still looking though.

Cyrus · 12-02-2021 12:02AM

schmittel wrote: »

I know for certain McGregor was more than a rumour. No idea if he is still looking though.

Yeah he was out around at some stage and out on jet skis etc think that was 18 months back though.

He is in the k club I think.

woejus · 12-02-2021 12:13AM

Cyrus wrote: »

If this hasn’t sold in a couple of years at under 9 I can’t see that getting 10.

But maybe I’ll be proven wrong, you’d hardly get a Range Rover up glenalua road

Marino Avenue was being hawked across all the EAs international affiliates, was in the FT weekend property pages for years, it was an acquired taste, old-school decor etc

Before thepropertypin went full retard there was a great write up by Observer35 (iirc) on the high end gaffs in the area.

A few years back I was there when BMW did a launch for a 7 or 8 series up there... it's a big series of boxes and not really a €10m kind of place for reasons you mentioned; narrow road (George's Ave/Glenalua), it's not private in that Kenah Hill is on the same plot. For that kind of cash, I don't want to see any neighbours!

That and the frankly poxy fencing job between the plot and the knacker drinkers paradise that is Mullins Hill. If anything they should have fixed that at the very least!

thefridge2006 · 12-02-2021 12:47AM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Indeed. For the record I'm aware of an actual estate agent office where the whole staff were on wage supports, which did become a concern to staffmembers' own mortgage applications. It's not all baristas.

I do too actually

Galwayhurl · 12-02-2021 01:01AM

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

I get the impression if SF get anywhere near government and cant increase supply quickly they will have no problem 'kneecapping landlords' whether that be small time or institutional, i agree with you if the polls are going one way a large amount of supply will enter the market.

Financially kneecapping institutional landlords is precisely what we need. The amount of vacant properties they hold is criminal. All in the name of being able to state to their investors that the average market rent is much higher than it would be if they rented the vacant lots out.

There needs to be a flat rate of 30% tax on rental income country wide. Whether you're a PAYE worker or a REIT. 50% on a PAYE landlord while a REIT pays 5% or 10% is just unfair and bad for the market.

I'm not even a property owner and I recognise this. I'm saving for my first home.

PropQueries · 12-02-2021 01:27AM

Galwayhurl wrote: »

Financially kneecapping institutional landlords is precisely what we need. The amount of vacant properties they hold is criminal. All in the name of being able to state to their investors that the average market rent is much higher than it would be if they rented the vacant lots out.

There needs to be a flat rate of 30% tax on rental income country wide. Whether you're a PAYE worker or a REIT. 50% on a PAYE landlord while a REIT pays 5% or 10% is just unfair and bad for the market.

I'm not even a property owner and I recognise this. I'm saving for my first home.

Don’t fall for it. Small Landlords pay the exact same tax on their income as you do. If you pay 20%, so does the landlord if that’s all the income they receive.

They also get heavily subsidised by the state through HAP etc. Many of the government initiatives over the past ten years, from CGT tax reliefs to HAP have been introduced to benefit small Irish landlords.

The only reason they’re upset now is that they’re forced to register their rental property and must now pay income tax like most of the rest of us.

cnocbui · 12-02-2021 01:34AM

Hubertj wrote: »

I do not understand a €5m price differential here.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/grianblah-26-palmerston-park-rathmines-dublin-6/4460604

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/ananda-st-georges-avenue-killiney-co-dublin/4483719

I don't see the value, period.

https://www.sothebysrealty.com/eng/sales/detail/180-l-496-2fkzsn/7-hidden-island-road-queenstown-ot-9371

awec · 12-02-2021 01:41AM

PropQueries wrote: »

Don’t fall for it. Landlords pay the exact same tax on their income as you do. If you pay 20%, so does the landlord if that’s all the income they receive.

They also get subsidised by the state by HAP etc. Many of the government initiatives over the past ten years, from CGT tax reliefs to HAP have been introduced to benefit small Irish landlords.

The only reason they’re upset now is that they’re forced to register their rental property and must now pay income tax like most of the rest of us.

REITs are tax exempt for both corpo tax and CGT as far as I remember.

PropQueries · 12-02-2021 01:49AM

awec wrote: »

REITs are tax exempt for both corpo tax and CGT as far as I remember.

I was referring to his post where he believed small landlords were getting a bad deal. But I’ll go back and change the original post from “landlord” to “small landlord” for you to avoid further ambiguities

awec · 12-02-2021 01:55AM

PropQueries wrote: »

I was referring to his post where he believed small landlords were getting a bad deal. But I’ll go back and change the original post from “landlord” to “small landlord” for you to avoid further ambiguities

Sorry, I misinterpreted.

I actually agree with you on this.

When it comes to paying tax on income for landlords, I have no sympathy for any suggestion they're over-burdened.

Galwayhurl · 12-02-2021 02:02AM

PropQueries wrote: »

Don’t fall for it. Small Landlords pay the exact same tax on their income as you do. If you pay 20%, so does the landlord if that’s all the income they receive.

They also get heavily subsidised by the state through HAP etc. Many of the government initiatives over the past ten years, from CGT tax reliefs to HAP have been introduced to benefit small Irish landlords.

The only reason they’re upset now is that they’re forced to register their rental property and must now pay income tax like most of the rest of us.

I thought that if a small landlord is paying PAYE tax at the higher rate that the rental income they receive is at the higher rate of tax as well, no?

E.G. if a Garda/teacher/nurse owns a second property that they let out, and they are in the higher tax band, they pay 40% tax plus USC on their rental income?

Anyway, my point is that landlords, be they small or institutional, should pay the same tax on all rental income.

cnocbui · 12-02-2021 02:04AM

awec wrote: »

Sorry, I misinterpreted.

I actually agree with you on this.

When it comes to paying tax on income for landlords, I have no sympathy for any suggestion they're over-burdened.

Are the REITS paying much tax?

Villa05 · 12-02-2021 02:17AM

Some podcasts that may interest many here

Affordable Housing Bill Debate

Claire Byrne

How to fix the housing Market

David McWilliams
podcast following on from article discussed earlier

The Finacialization of the global economy

David McWilliams

Helps to understand whats happening with investment funds

Cyrus · 12-02-2021 08:53AM

Galwayhurl wrote: »

I thought that if a small landlord is paying PAYE tax at the higher rate that the rental income they receive is at the higher rate of tax as well, no?

E.G. if a Garda/teacher/nurse owns a second property that they let out, and they are in the higher tax band, they pay 40% tax plus USC on their rental income?

Anyway, my point is that landlords, be they small or institutional, should pay the same tax on all rental income.

Yes that’s correct but it would be the same if they got a bonus at work.

PropQueries · 12-02-2021 09:53AM

Timing belt wrote: »

If you throw enough sh1tt some of it will always stick lol

I only have one theory

and that's that the property demand/supply mismatch is not real.

The rest of my apparent "mud-slinging" etc. is to show how the state uses various methods to keep this pretence up. Eventually, primarily due to a lack of future resources, I believe the state will lose that game IMO

Hubertj · 12-02-2021 09:57AM

Villa05 wrote: »

Some podcasts that may interest many here

Affordable Housing Bill Debate

Claire Byrne

How to fix the housing Market

David McWilliams
podcast following on from article discussed earlier

The Finacialization of the global economy

David McWilliams

Helps to understand whats happening with investment funds

You referred to spoofer in the singular in an earlier post regarding the affordable housing bill debate. I presume that was a typo.

Listened to David McWilliams and some interesting perspectives in it alright. Good for people to listen to.

Cyrus · 12-02-2021 10:12AM

woejus wrote: »

Marino Avenue was being hawked across all the EAs international affiliates, was in the FT weekend property pages for years, it was an acquired taste, old-school decor etc

Before thepropertypin went full retard there was a great write up by Observer35 (iirc) on the high end gaffs in the area.

A few years back I was there when BMW did a launch for a 7 or 8 series up there... it's a big series of boxes and not really a €10m kind of place for reasons you mentioned; narrow road (George's Ave/Glenalua), it's not private in that Kenah Hill is on the same plot. For that kind of cash, I don't want to see any neighbours!

That and the frankly poxy fencing job between the plot and the knacker drinkers paradise that is Mullins Hill. If anything they should have fixed that at the very least!

yeah and thats kind of my point, i get that marino avenue will need to be revamped and depinked most likely but its an 1800s Victorian Italianate mansion on 5 acres with some of the best sea views in dublin, if they cant flog that at 10% less (and im sure there is a deal to be done :pac:) then there is no way the other place is 10m, its off by a good 2-3m at the very least.

anyway its nice to discuss actual properties for a change

and i agree with you, there used to be some wonderful posters on the pin before it went mental

one of the posters had a site, dublins great estates or something like that, it was very informative on these super high end gaffs.

Billythekid19 · 12-02-2021 11:17AM

McWilliams made a great point in that podcast. Along with covid, part of the reason people aren't selling their houses in 2021 is because prices are rising. Why sell my 500k house now when I can sell it for 525k in 12 months if the rising market continues.
It says more about our greed than anything else really. We see houses as investments as opposed to other countries who treat them as basic necessities.

MacronvFrugals · 12-02-2021 11:39AM

Some interesting points raised regarding retail and tourism going forward in today's IT -

Zombie businesses lurk beneath State supports for economy

Amazon is currently setting up camp just off the N7 in Dublin and when its same or next-day delivery services begin in Ireland, it is likely to lay waste to parts of the domestic retail sector. That part of the economy was already in enough trouble as it was. We’ve all become used to shopping at home in our boxer shorts at our laptops. That is a structural change in consumer behaviour and its effects will become fully apparent only after the pandemic recedes.

But it could be several years before foreign tourists return, and as they do, the staycationers that are currently the sector’s only nourishment will be forming orderly queues at the exit gates of Irish airports. Which of the tourism businesses among the totality that are currently on State life support will survive all the tumult to come? We’ll never know until they go. And that’s before we figure out what will happen to the corporate meetings market after the pandemic.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/zombie-businesses-lurk-beneath-state-supports-for-economy-1.4482353?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fzombie-businesses-lurk-beneath-state-supports-for-economy-1.4482353

Cyrus · 12-02-2021 11:40AM

Billythekid19 wrote: »

McWilliams made a great point in that podcast. Along with covid, part of the reason people aren't selling their houses in 2021 is because prices are rising. Why sell my 500k house now when I can sell it for 525k in 12 months if the rising market continues.
It says more about our greed than anything else really. We see houses as investments as opposed to other countries who treat them as basic necessities.

this gets trotted out a lot,

which are the countries where people treat houses as basic necessities? Where the main cities dont have more expensive houses than the more rural parts of the country?

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

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2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1