COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Deeper Blue · 07-02-2021 02:18PM

frozen3 wrote: »

Was that 49% a fair result? The SA strain took over as the main variant in January, well after Novavax trial begun, some regions might not have had that variant circulating at all.

From the Novavax website:

"Clinical efficacy demonstrated in Phase 2b South Africa trial with over 90% of sequenced cases attributable to prevalent South Africa escape variant"

Also the 49% figure was when HIV positive people were included. It was 60% for those without HIV. Plus there were no hospitalisations.

Lundstram · 07-02-2021 02:22PM

This is an embarrassment to Ireland and the EU as a whole. The apologists can spout all the nonsense they want in defending this but this speaks volumes.

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TheChizler · 07-02-2021 02:24PM

Lundstram wrote: »

This is an embarrassment to Ireland and the EU as a whole. The apologists can spout all the nonsense they want in defending this but this speaks volumes.

Great. Now do second doses.

is_that_so · 07-02-2021 02:28PM

Lundstram wrote: »

This is an embarrassment to Ireland and the EU as a whole. The apologists can spout all the nonsense they want in defending this but this speaks volumes.

A graph that says something something and an irate poster thinking it proves something something else. Do do have any bright solutions? I mean do you reckon we can just throw together a few vats of vaccine together to sort it, then?

gally74 · 07-02-2021 02:29PM

Lundstram wrote: »

This is an embarrassment to Ireland and the EU as a whole. The apologists can spout all the nonsense they want in defending this but this speaks volumes.

to the EU yes, but not to ireland, if you think we would have done any better on your own, forget it, We would probalby be locked out of international credit markets as an independant country, the 350 a week would be more like 80 a week,

Europe has messed up, but it will accelerate in Q2, and to be honest, being lighted on oxford might be a blessing in disguise,

is_that_so · 07-02-2021 02:30PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Great. Now do second doses.

Ah, will you stop! It's really not fair to include other facts in this "discussion"!

RugbyLad11 · 07-02-2021 02:36PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Great. Now do second doses.

It's been proven that the first dose provides sufficient protection.

Would you rather have a large number of people with decent protection or a small group of people with a bit extra protection?

07-02-2021 02:36PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Aren't israel also in a lockdown ? So cases and hospitalisations will come down even without a vaccine

Large portions of the Israeli population are not following guidelines due to religious (orthodox Jews) or political (Arab Israelis) reasons. The community most impacted by the the virus, the orthodox, are also not inclined to take the vaccine

never_mind · 07-02-2021 02:37PM

Can I just ask a question that I don’t understand? So Astra Zeneca isn’t recommended for over 65s. GP roll out is beginning Monday week for over 85s. So is that to say GP surgeries are getting the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines? I thought they were quite hard to transport/store?

Lundstram · 07-02-2021 02:39PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

It's been proven that the first dose provides sufficient protection.

Would you rather have a large number of people with decent protection or a small group of people with a bit extra protection?

You'd swear the first dose gives 5% protection and the second 95% the way some posters try to defend our vaccine numbers.

07-02-2021 02:40PM

Lundstram wrote: »

This is an embarrassment to Ireland and the EU as a whole. The apologists can spout all the nonsense they want in defending this but this speaks volumes.

Do a comparison against Australia, Canada, Japan, Korea, Russia, China
Behind the UK and a couple of other countries. Ahead of 90% of the world

RugbyLad11 · 07-02-2021 02:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do a comparison against Australia, Canada, Japan, Korea, Russia, China
Behind the UK and a couple of other countries. Ahead of 90% of the world

Half the countries in your list have f*uck all cases and/or have no lockdowns, so they don't really need to go as fast as we should be going...

political analyst · 07-02-2021 02:46PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-has-no-plans-to-buy-surplus-covid-19-vaccines-outside-eu-process-1.4476496

The Dept. of Health has confirmed that there are no plans to buy Covid vaccines outside the EU process and that it is not prevented by EU rules from seeking supplies from companies outside the EU portfolio.

A European Commission spokesman said of the proposal:

You cannot say at the moment whether it would be legal or illegal. The question of legality depends on the case at the time.

Whether Ireland could rely on one of the derogations in the legislation that allows for the use of unauthorised medicines would depend on the situation at that point in time [for example], a scarcity with regard to the product that has been authorised in the EU.

The Dept. also said that a process known as the EU “bazaar”, where countries bid for unused allocations of vaccines, was no longer operating as EU members were now taking up their full complement of the vaccine.

Some EU countries chose not to take their full allocation of certain vaccines, e.g. Moderna, which is the most expensive. Germany has sought to purchase some of this surplus, while France and Denmark have also been active in the market.

Irish ministers have said that the only constraint on the vaccination programme is the pace of supply but that there are currently no efforts underway to increase it.

Stephen Donnelly's spokesman said:

At this point in time we are not seeking to source vaccines from outside of the EU process. Ireland has benefitted from inclusion in the Team Europe procurement solidarity approach in terms of increasing negotiating power in a globally competitive environment. It is anticipated that the collective approach will continue to assess vaccine candidates for potential for inclusion in any future negotiations. Ireland’s vaccine programme is predicated on the use of safe and effective vaccines, authorised after thorough review and recommendation by the European Medicines Agency.

A government spokesman said that it was already clear that supplies would be more limited in the first quarter of the year before increasing from April. He also said that Ireland is expected to eventually have a surplus of vaccines.

Lundstram · 07-02-2021 02:46PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Half the countries in your list have f*uck all cases and/or have no lockdowns, so they don't really need to go as fast as we should be going...

And we don't share a land border with any of them.

is_that_so · 07-02-2021 02:48PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Half the countries in your list have f*uck all cases and/or have no lockdowns, so they don't really need to go as fast as we should be going...

How exactly can we go faster, given that we have used up the vast bulk of vaccines received to date?

lbj666 · 07-02-2021 02:50PM

never_mind wrote: »

Can I just ask a question that I don’t understand? So Astra Zeneca isn’t recommended for over 65s. GP roll out is beginning Monday week for over 85s. So is that to say GP surgeries are getting the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines? I thought they were quite hard to transport/store?

Its hard to transport but far from impossible. Once out of super cold storage they have 5 days to use it. Meaning GPs have to very very meticulous in making appointments ie not over/under book and deliveries really have to be on point.

Smaller GP clinics are teaming up with bigger ones as you need fridges for the 5 day storage.

Astra Zeneca can stay in a fridge for weeks so the plans gone from easy to hard but doable.

RugbyLad11 · 07-02-2021 02:51PM

is_that_so wrote: »

How exactly can we go faster, given that we have used up the vast bulk of vaccines received to date?

Maybe source extra vaccines ourselves like Hungary etc are doing?

ACitizenErased · 07-02-2021 02:52PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Maybe source extra vaccines ourselves like Hungary etc are doing?

You honestly think we're going to order the Russian vaccine?

Lundstram · 07-02-2021 02:54PM

is_that_so wrote: »

How exactly can we go faster, given that we have used up the vast bulk of vaccines received to date?

Go buy our own. There's no one stopping us despite what the EU says. Do a deal with the UK. Maybe the US? There's only 5 million on this island.

We are haemorrhaging money at the moment so what's another few billion.

never_mind · 07-02-2021 02:54PM

lbj666 wrote: »

Its hard to transport but far from impossible. Once out of super cold storage they have 5 days to use it. Meaning GPs have to very very meticulous in making appointments ie not over/under book and deliveries really have to be on point.

Smaller GP clinics are teaming up with bigger ones as you need fridges for the 5 day storage.

Astra Zeneca can stay in a fridge for weeks so the plans gone from easy to hard but doable.

Ah!! Ok, so I was under the impression the Pfizer and moderna vaccines just weren’t going to GPs and just to mass vaccination centres. This makes sense! Thanks

ACitizenErased · 07-02-2021 02:54PM

Lundstram wrote: »

Go buy our own. There's no one stopping us despite what the EU says. Do a deal with the UK.

We are haemorrhaging money at the moment so what's another few billion.

If only it was as simple as popping down to the factory and purchasing a load

is_that_so · 07-02-2021 02:54PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Maybe source extra vaccines ourselves like Hungary etc are doing?

Sputnik & Sinopharm, unapproved vaccines in the EU, are the right approach?

07-02-2021 03:00PM

Lundstram wrote: »

Go buy our own. There's no one stopping us despite what the EU says. Do a deal with the UK. Maybe the US? There's only 5 million on this island.

We are haemorrhaging money at the moment so what's another few billion.

From where? Do you think there are vast warehouses of vaccine just waiting for an order?

Look at the Russian vaccination numbers. If there were so many vaccines available why are they so low? Or even Hungary who have vaccinated below the European average in spite of some having the belief that have sourced vast amounts.

The reason there is a short supply of vaccines in the eu is because there is a short supply of vaccines. This is remedial stuff

astrofool · 07-02-2021 03:03PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

It's been proven that the first dose provides sufficient protection.

Would you rather have a large number of people with decent protection or a small group of people with a bit extra protection?

Lundstram wrote: »

You'd swear the first dose gives 5% protection and the second 95% the way some posters try to defend our vaccine numbers.

UK has 2.5 times our death rate per capita, they went against manufacturers recommendations due to how badly they dealt with the virus, they don't yet have data that supports what they are doing, but it is coming in slowly.

We didn't have that high death rate, and we can follow the guidelines according to what the data said.

I prefer to live in the country with 60% less deaths per capita, and is following the guidelines as instructed by the data.

Which do you prefer?

edit:
The other thing that helps us is that every person so far vaccinated in this country has been done with the more effective mRNA vaccines, and getting the second dose on schedule, and only those less likely to have severe symptoms will be getting the AZ vaccine (at least for the moment), this puts us in a much better long term position.

The reason for the pandemic is because of the people dying when they get the disease caused by the SARS-COV2 virus, if you protect the most vulnerable to the disease with a very effective vaccine, you can move on from the pandemic, that is what we've been doing.

Me, a healthy person in one of the last groups, getting a vaccine sooner, won't move us on from the pandemic and lockdowns.

Icantthinkof1 · 07-02-2021 03:44PM

astrofool wrote: »

and only those less likely to have severe symptoms will be getting the AZ vaccine (at least for the moment).

Doctors and frontline health workers with high/ higher risk medical conditions will also be given the AZ vaccine from next week

07-02-2021 03:53PM

astrofool wrote: »

UK has 2.5 times our death rate per capita, they went against manufacturers recommendations due to how badly they dealt with the virus, they don't yet have data that supports what they are doing, but it is coming in slowly.

We didn't have that high death rate, and we can follow the guidelines according to what the data said.

I prefer to live in the country with 60% less deaths per capita, and is following the guidelines as instructed by the data.

Which do you prefer?

edit:
The other thing that helps us is that every person so far vaccinated in this country has been done with the more effective mRNA vaccines, and getting the second dose on schedule, and only those less likely to have severe symptoms will be getting the AZ vaccine (at least for the moment), this puts us in a much better long term position.

The reason for the pandemic is because of the people dying when they get the disease caused by the SARS-COV2 virus, if you protect the most vulnerable to the disease with a very effective vaccine, you can move on from the pandemic, that is what we've been doing.

Me, a healthy person in one of the last groups, getting a vaccine sooner, won't move us on from the pandemic and lockdowns.

This is all complete whataboutery, same with the 'now include second doses' comments.

You can happily say we have handled the pandemic better than Britain and still say they are miles ahead of terms of vaccinations. Yes we all know the supply is the issue, but this doesn't change the fact they are miles ahead in vaccinations.

Its not even a slight on Ireland, its pretty much been out of our control..

Apogee · 07-02-2021 04:53PM

Irish Times wrote:

Up to 40 big vaccination centres will be put in place across the State to administer Covid-19 vaccines, according to Health Service Executive chief Paul Reid. He said some of these facilities could have 40 to 50 lanes, or places, for people to be vaccinated while others may have 10 to 20 such bays.
[...]
He said people over 70 will receive their first vaccination by mid-April and their second by mid-May. He said it had been planned that originally the first doses would have been provided to those over 70 by the end of March.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/up-to-40-large-vaccination-centres-to-be-introduced-across-the-state-hse-chief-says-1.4478346

Stheno · 07-02-2021 05:04PM

Apogee wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/up-to-40-large-vaccination-centres-to-be-introduced-across-the-state-hse-chief-says-1.4478346

If ten of these centres have 50 lanes and vaccinate 4 people per hour in each lane, operating 8am to 8pm 7 days a week thats 168000 jabs a week

20 weeks to fully vaccinate 1.6 million people in those ten centres alone

Another 30 with ten lanes operating on the same basis is another 1 million people fully vaccinated in 20 weeks

Add in GPs and pharmacies and you'd likely hit the 3.6 million we need to hit 80% in 20 weeks, not counting those already vaccinated, and assuming two doses required

If they start in April that's mid August to potentially achieve this if there are no supply issues

cameramonkey · 07-02-2021 05:05PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You honestly think we're going to order the Russian vaccine?

I think so.

07-02-2021 05:05PM

AdamD wrote: »

This is all complete whataboutery, same with the 'now include second doses' comments.

You can happily say we have handled the pandemic better than Britain and still say they are miles ahead of terms of vaccinations. Yes we all know the supply is the issue, but this doesn't change the fact they are miles ahead in vaccinations.

Its not even a slight on Ireland, its pretty much been out of our control..

In general though it’s the uk that’s the outlier, not the eu

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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