Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

CruelSummer wrote: »

Seems like that from this article. It also threw the vaccine rollout into chaos as GP’s will now have to be mobilised into mass centres to administer the mRNA vaccines instead of ringing their older patients to come into the surgery for the shot. Interesting that not one person on the committee was heard in relation to this, only Holohan.

i guess the other 39 members of nphet were busy drooling in the corner or something

Graham wrote: »

So there's a big fuss over potentially nothing.

Yes.

I think the word potentially is the issue here though.

There are two scenarios here Graham.

I) Holohan's decision and the government accepting his advice over NiAC's clear position is that it has absolutely no impact as to when all over 70' get vaccinated.

II) Holohan's decision and the governmwnt accepting his advice over NIAC's clear advice delays some over 70's getting a vaccine.

If scenario one plays out it still doesn't justify a wrong decision, that is just good luck.

If we adopt the good luck approach to legislation we may as well let a monkey throw darts at a dart board to make decisions.

Holohan's advice which the government is now enacting is clearly different from NIAC. Holohan is not the competent body to make a scientific decision in this field NIAC is.

If you have no problem with this process that is your prerogative, I have a huge problem with it as ultimately our CMO and the government is not following scientific advice.

Being lucky is not being a good government.

Deleted User wrote: »

These type of comments are just so witty and so clever.

Oh raind it in will you

Graham wrote: »

From what I see we are taking a cautious approach to scientific advice and some are getting all worked up because they don't know the detail and assume it's going to take longer.

An assumption not based on fact.

If we can take a cautious approach without significantly delaying the vaccinations, great. Win Win.

Any delay potentially causes someone getting ill or worse, that is not being cautious and directly contradicts NIAC.

I have a huge problem with the decision as it goes gainst scientific advice.

Holohan twisting the NIAC advice either shows the guy is incompetent as he believes his knowledge is superior to the body qualified to make these decisions or there are politics at play here where he is looking to retain control of decisions.

Neither make for a good CMO and government should recognise this and not follow his advice and follow NIAC's.

I will leave it at that Graham and we can agree to disagree.

I wonder what other people's opinion on Holohan over riding NIAC advice is ?

Graham wrote: »

So there's a big fuss over potentially nothing.

Are you suggesting a vaccine that has to be given in two doses, stored at -70 and just comes into Ireland in a trickle each week won’t cause a delay?

polesheep wrote: »

If I were a member of the NIAC, this weekend I would be considering my position.

I agree as Holohan has basically made it clear he has no respect for their competence.

How the government is not considering Holohan's position is beyond me.

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-one-in-government-has-appetite-to-push-back-against-holohan-1.4477368?mode=amp

Groundhog Day 2021. We’re here again with the Government not Governing and NPHET running the show with Covid as their only concern. Holohan throwing the vaccine campaign into chaos and the Government just stand idly by.
We’ve had this in the first lockdown, Oct/Nov and now.
Sinn Fein & opposition have destroyed any chance of it either by repeatedly stating ‘The Government went against Tony & NPHET’ at Christmas so the opposition are an even worse option.
After listening to Holohan at press conferences, I firmly believe he wants lockdown until the vaccines are administered. It’s his only idea & strategy.

And posters on here wonder why other posters here think the Govt doesn't want this to end.

polesheep wrote: »

If I were a member of the NIAC, this weekend I would be considering my position.

I wouldn't give Holohan any advice going forward. He wants to be a celebrity and the savior of Ireland so let him figure things out for himself.

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

I have a huge problem with the decision as it goes gainst scientific advice.

Keeping repeating something won't make it true you know.

But if you want show me the science on the vaccine efficacy in the over 65s.

In your own good time.

AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine should only be given to people aged between 18 and 64, Germany's vaccine committee STIKO has said in a draft update to its vaccine recommendation.

"There are currently insufficient data available to assess the vaccine efficacy from 65 years of age," the committee said in the resolution made available by the German health ministry

You might send a copy to the Germans as well when you get it.

Of course we are going further and recommending it for up to 70 year olds, some countries are not recommending it for over 55s.

I sense a narrative change coming soon.

Evil Tony demanding over 55s take unproven vaccine.

And round and round we go.

I think that Irish people were treated like not-very bright children by a paternalistic government, which implemented a number of lockdown and restrictions as advised by “experts” operating well outside of their own circle of competence. In simple terms nphet exceeded their authority and the government failed to stop them. Every lockdown represents a failure in leadership, as politicians hide behind bureaucracies instead of leading from the front.

Lockdowns are not primarily intended to halt the spread of the virus. If they were we would not be in the third one right now. The main purpose of a lockdown is to “flatten the curve” which has been said many times by many people. What has not been explained however is that total infections and deaths are about the same with and without the lockdown. Flattening the curve merely means elongating the curve. The peak load is lower, but the duration is much longer, and so the total cases and fatalities are defined by the total area under the curve, not by the height of the curve. With no vaccine on hand lockdown may in fact increase fatalities by delaying herd immunity and allow the virus to mutate multiple times.

It has been proven however that a lockdown can help with reducing the burden on a health-care system by reducing the peak load. Some patients will die if they cannot receive prompt and appropriate care and treatment – I don’t think that this fact can be disputed. Still there are better ways of dealing with the hospital admission overload than by country wide, blanket style lockdowns. Those measures must be limited by location and time, and applied to those areas or counties that are most likely to be overwhelmed. What is a point of locking down the whole country because a hospital or two in one hot spot are having difficulties in managing the situation? Is it really not smarter and more efficient to transfer staff over to those facilities to help out just as they did in 1918 with Spanish flu, and that was some pandemic to be dealing with? Disease containment works best when people choose freely to comply and can make their own judgment on an objective information of the nature of the virus and the risk associated. Implementing fines and penalties and enforcing the rules via police power is wrong, deeply worrying and counterproductive.

Nphet and the government failed deeply in informing the public of the reality of the situation and manipulated the truth and induced fear that were to give the compliance required for this living with covid strategy to work. The pure fact is that such approach while may work short term, long term leads to mistrust. You don’t manage truth, you tell the truth and treat citizens like your equals. It is that mistrust and fear that have taken hold and are threatening to break our society apart.

Lockdowns are measures that cause harm that is disproportional to the benefits. From immunity loss that comes from evading other viruses and bacteria that we normally encounter, through deaths from drug and alcohol abuse, suicides, domestic violence, deferred medical procedures and patient screening, to mental health issues from loneliness and isolation.

The economic effects are also staggering. The destruction of wealth, unemployment and economic recession.
And it is all thanks to all those epidemiologists and virologists who know very little of sociology, psychology, law, economics etc. Who were made empowered by the politicians who to put it colloquially – have no balls to lead.