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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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  • #8972
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    If they are holding Pfizer and Moderna for the over 70s, where are the AZ going now? I thought I saw yesterday they were going on healthcare workers but I thought they were largely done?
    They will do people from other groups, 4 & 6 notably. They may even start planning the over 65s.


  • #8973
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not sure what you're trying to do with this post, frighten yourself, the natives or just regurgitate a bad X-Men plot! The primary aim of vaccines is to prevent severe cases, in an ideal scenario it will block the disease entirely. Nobody will care if there are 50,000 of us with sniffles, if the severe cases are non-existent.
    You're very ambitious with the 2nd generation claims, end of Spring is May and boosters are not 2nd generation.

    Asymptomatic Covid is harmless?


  • #8974
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    frozen3 wrote: »
    Asymptomatic Covid is harmless?
    Why the question? It was your post.


  • #8975
    The_Brood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    Hmob wrote: »
    To be clear, what would you have done differently?

    I'm not disagreeing but what's your alternative solutions here?

    You are disagreeing if you ask the question that is music to politicians ears. They are counting on people believing this "no other solutions" narrative to save them.

    Some small island nations have handled this pandemic properly. Large island nations as well. Large mostly land-locked countries. Small land-locked countries. Countries with very difficult border situations. (Israel). Europe's attitude is no to strict measures but yes to endless economic lockdowns.


  • #8976
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Why the question? It was your post.

    You said it doesn't matter if 50,000 people have the sniffles

    I am asking is asymptomatic covid harmless then?


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  • #8977
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    frozen3 wrote: »
    You said it doesn't matter if 50,000 people have the sniffles

    I am asking is asymptomatic covid harmless then?
    About as harmful as a cold.


  • #8978
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    frozen3 wrote: »
    Data out of UK is leaning towards mRNA is more efficacious but not better at keeping people out of hospital once infected, why would that suprise you?

    The trials showed that, Israel are showing that, with 5% hospitalisations of infected

    AZ is a decent vaccine as is Pfizer, both have pros and cons

    If your going to suggest data is showing something then please link to any study or data available that states people who've had either Pfizer or Moderna are more likely to end up in hospital, until then its a pretty baseless claim

    In Israel hospitalsations in the age groups vaccinated are going down. Not sure how you can possibly argue against.

    The trials didn't show 5% ended up in hospital. The trials showed a prevention of severe covid. There was 1 in the Pfizer trial in 0 in Moderna.

    A 95% efficency doesn't mean the remaining 5% ended up in hospital, I think your getting confused there.

    https://twitter.com/segal_eran/status/1358154823590416387?s=19


  • #8979
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    If your going to suggest data is showing something then please link to any study or data available that states people who've had either Pfizer or Moderna are more likely to end up in hospital, until then its a pretty baseless claim

    In Israel hospitalsations in the age groups vaccinated are going down. Not sure how you can possibly argue against.

    The trials didn't show 5% ended up in hospital. The trials showed a prevention of severe covid. There was 1 in the Pfizer trial in 0 in Moderna.

    A 95% efficency doesn't mean the remaining 5% ended up in hospital, I think your getting confused there.

    https://twitter.com/segal_eran/status/1358154823590416387?s=19

    Real world data did

    317 in hospital, 16 infected

    It's an insanely good vaccine at preventing infection but people will still end up in hospital when infected

    Not confused btw, my post always said 5% of infected.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/israel-covid-vaccination-data-offers-hope-exit-pandemic


  • #8980
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    is_that_so wrote: »
    About as harmful as a cold.

    At least you have an opinion, right or wrong

    We will only know the answer in the future


  • #8981
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    If a vaccine has 90% efficacy does it mean that 10% of people are at risk of getting infected it or does it mean that everyone that gets is 90% less likely to get infected ? It always confuses me .


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  • #8982
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    frozen3 wrote: »
    Real world data did

    317 in hospital, 16 infected

    It's an insanely good vaccine at preventing infection but people will still end up in hospital when infected

    Not confused btw, my post always said 5% of infected.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/israel-covid-vaccination-data-offers-hope-exit-pandemic

    That was after the first shot only.

    Edit. A week after second shot. Point stands. Likely to have been infected prior to full protection


  • #8983
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    If a vaccine has 90% efficacy does it mean that 10% of people are at risk of getting infected it or does it mean that everyone that gets is 90% less likely to get infected ? It always confuses me .

    10% will get infected yes

    Israel data shows at moment in elderly

    90% efficacious
    10% can get infected

    5% or so of that 10% end up in hospital

    Example age 70 years +

    Pfizer vaccine

    1000 people
    900 don't get covid
    100 can get covid

    5 end up in hospital because of Covid

    99.5% won't go hosptial

    No vaccine

    1000 people
    1000 get covid
    150 end up in hospital

    85% won't go hospital

    As you can the Pfizer vaccine based on Israel data is pretty incredible


  • #8984
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    If a vaccine has 90% efficacy does it mean that 10% of people are at risk of getting infected it or does it mean that everyone that gets is 90% less likely to get infected ? It always confuses me .

    None of the vaccine manufacturers are claiming that their vaccines will prevent infection, just that they will prevent serious illness, (whatever serious means),
    I understand the 90% efficacy to mean that the vaccine does not work for 10% of those vaccinated, but I could be wrong about that.


  • #8985
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That was after the first shot only.

    Edit. A week after second shot. Point stands. Likely to have been infected prior to full protection

    Real world data man.

    Point stands


  • #8986
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    frozen3 wrote: »
    Real world data did

    317 in hospital, 16 infected

    It's an insanely good vaccine at preventing infection but people will still end up in hospital when infected

    Not confused btw, my post always said 5% of infected.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/israel-covid-vaccination-data-offers-hope-exit-pandemic

    A week after 2nd dose, highly unlikely to have full protection at all. Likely to have been infected before 2nd dose. You can't draw conclusions from that so no I don't think you point stands as there wouldn't be full protection in the timeline of the article linked.

    Let's see what the data shows a few weeks after 2nd dose.

    You are either purposely or unknowingly misrepresenting the data and making conclusions on 1st dose data and presenting that as fact.


  • #8987
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    frozen3 wrote: »
    Real world data man.

    Point stands

    No it doesn't as they were quite likely to have been infected prior to 2nd dose. Therefore only had partial protection and 2nd dose wouldn't have had a chance to kick in before infection.

    This has been discussed here numerous times with regards to being infected after vacination


  • #8988
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    A week after 2nd dose, highly unlikely to have full protection at all. Likely to have been infected before 2nd dose. You can't draw conclusions from that so no I don't think you point stands as there wouldn't be full protection in the timeline of the article linked.

    Let's see what the data shows a few weeks after 2nd dose.

    Full protection is 42 days

    In the real world people are not going to self isolate for 6 weeks after vaccine

    Are you going to stay inside for 6 weeks after your doses?

    They won't inject you at home anyway, you'll have to go out in the real world and risk infection at the vaccination location

    My wife as strange as it sounds got infected while being tested at her nursing home workplace

    They brought them all into a small room with no ventalation, masks off for the swabs and few days later an outbreak, alot of staff only came in for 5mins for testing

    They got the Pfizer vaccine 8 days before that routine test

    36 staff out of 45 now infected, 3 of that 45 had Covid previously


  • #8989
    eoinbn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    frozen3 wrote: »
    10% will get infected yes

    Israel data shows at moment in elderly

    90% efficacious
    10% can get infected

    5% or so of that 10% end up in hospital

    Example age 70 years +

    Pfizer vaccine

    1000 people
    900 don't get covid
    100 can get covid

    5 end up in hospital because of Covid

    99.5% won't go hosptial

    No vaccine

    1000 people
    1000 get covid
    150 end up in hospital

    85% won't go hospital

    As you can the Pfizer vaccine based on Israel data is pretty incredible

    Small correction - there is a difference between getting inflected with the virus and getting covid. All 1000 vaccinated people could potentially have got the virus but neutralised it before covid developed.
    We still need more data on transmission to know if the vaccines reduce it. AZ data suggests it is reduced but not eliminated.


  • #8990
    Cerveza
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭Cerveza


    Is it only 2% of population vaccinated?


  • #8991
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    eoinbn wrote: »
    Small correction - there is a difference between getting inflected with the virus and getting covid. All 1000 vaccinated people could potentially have got the virus but neutralised it before covid developed.
    We still need more data on transmission to know if the vaccines reduce it. AZ data suggests it is reduced but not eliminated.

    Thats true

    Data will be in soon.


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  • #8992
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    frozen3 wrote: »
    Full protection is 42 days

    In the real world people are not going to self isolate for 6 weeks after vaccine

    Are you going to stay inside for 6 weeks after your doses?

    They won't inject you at home anyway, you'll have to go out in the real world and risk infection at the vaccination location

    My wife as strange as it sounds got infected while being tested at her nursing home workplace

    They brought them all into a small room with no ventalation, masks off for the swabs and few days later an outbreak, alot of staff only came in for 5mins for testing

    They got the Pfizer vaccine 8 days before that routine test

    36 staff out of 45 now infected, 3 of that 45 had Covid previously

    Now your rambling and dealing in whataboutery.

    They got the vaccine 8 days before, again wouldn't have been enough time to offer protection from infection so why the surprise that there's cases now?

    Look I'm not going to indulge you any further to be honest its pointless & I think your purposely or unintentionally misrepresenting the first dose v second dose data and infection time and portraying it as real world data when in actual fact its incomplete data and an incomplete dosing schedule.

    Point stands we can't draw conclusions until the time period after vacincation as specified by regulators and manufacturers when dosing schedule is complete


  • #8993
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    No it doesn't as they were quite likely to have been infected prior to 2nd dose. Therefore only had partial protection and 2nd dose wouldn't have had a chance to kick in before infection.

    This has been discussed here numerous times with regards to being infected after vacination

    True that is likely

    Israel is only real world case study at the moment, that's all I have to speculate on.

    We will see after 42 days if hospilisations of 5% of infected is correct or not

    We can catch up on this in a few weeks


  • #8994
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Cerveza wrote: »
    Is it only 2% of population vaccinated?
    Heading for 5% on first shots and about 30% of those with second shots.


  • #8995
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 56,343 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mod:

    Can we get back on topic and stop the bickering please.

    Moderator: Current Affairs/IMHO, Soccer, Pro Wrestling



  • #8996
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Brian McCraith on the vaccine programme, a cautious approach.
    Chair of the Covid-19 vaccination taskforce Professor Brian McCraith has said they remain "very cautious" on specific targets given the recent setbacks with supply.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0207/1195600-covid19-ireland-vaccines/


  • #8997
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Brian McCraith on the vaccine programme, a cautious approach.



    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0207/1195600-covid19-ireland-vaccines/

    Yeah to be fair to him he's always been reluctant to put dates on it, the dates seem to come more from government.

    In parallel now other groups will probably get vaccinated quicker with AZ so dates wise it'll be a bit all over the place so what he's said there makes perfect sense


  • #8998
    afatbollix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,127 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    afatbollix wrote: »
    We can they have a 15 minute test but it's 92% correct. You can get them for about e8 each now.


    But seemingly 92% effectiveness is not good enough for mass testing.

    Just as I post this :pac: I see the UK is to offer these tests to every work place with over 50 employees.

    Be great when they start to open restaurants, you do one of these tests and your in if negative. An extra e10 on a meal wouldn't be too bad I'd be happy to pay that.


  • #8999
    frozen3
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 112 ✭✭frozen3


    afatbollix wrote: »
    Just as I post this :pac: I see the UK is to offer these tests to every work place with over 50 employees.

    Be great when they start to open restaurants, you do one of these tests and your in if negative. An extra e10 on a meal wouldn't be too bad I'd be happy to pay that.

    I started that conversation and got that reply

    Really can't believe its taken this long with our supposedly great modern technology to test for it

    Covid is spread by droplet's

    Shouldnt Covid be in those droplets

    Should be close to 100% accurate, cant understand how its only 92% btw.


  • #9000
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Aren't israel also in a lockdown ? So cases and hospitalisations will come down even without a vaccine


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  • #9001
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    My uncle in the states who’s 89 was to get his vaccination this week. Unfortunately he got the virus last week before he had the chance to get the jab. He spent 2 nights in hospital for observation. The old git has been discharged and recovering and is well again. He has heart problems, and is in remission from lymphoma and still beat it.


This discussion has been closed.
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