Next%- the ongoing debate

OOnegative · 05-01-2021 5:19pm

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I've now had a combination of runs across the Next%, Endorphin Pro, Endorphin Speed and Adios Pro, I've found these all to be true to size and infact would consider going down half a size in Sauncony (I'm a narrow foot btw).

I'll work backwards:

Adios Pro, straight out of the box 2hr relatively easy run [16.3miles/7:22pace], lovely fit, just very comfortable to wear, easy to lock-in. No mechanical issues on the run, honestly felt like I was running 10-15 seconds slower. 1 mile TT [5:02], lacking a little something at this pace, doesn't have the pushing forward feel that you get with the Nike and Saucony if I was staring at the Run Fast Pro and these for a smooth tarmac road race I think I would pick the Reebok for their lightness and racing flat feel. Would consider these for 10 mile plus races.

Endorphin Speed, if I could only throw 1 shoe in my bag for the rest of my life I'd be happy if it was this, true all-rounder and great across the paces. It's so comfortable, feels like a traditional shoe, decent tongue, lovely fit. I did do a little head to head comparison versus the Nike.

Same course for the first 4k.
5k I wore the Nike VaporFly Next%, 4k I wore the Saucony Endorphin Speed

HR data, I'm working at a similar level, in fact, a little harder for the 4k.
Cadence I'm turning over a little quicker in the Saucony.
The Nike's, however, gave me an extra 3cm per stride, doesn't sound much, but when you equalize the cadence and stride length it's +1.5%.

I think I would probably choose the Speed for a marathon where I wanted to limit the bomb damage.

Endorphin Pro, not sure what to do with this, it's good, better than a lot that I've worn, it fits well but too stiff for a daily driver, fast but maybe not fast enough for races. I just haven't warmed to it and actually rarely use it, in fact I think I wear for some 200's tonight, haven't tested it on a short session.

Next%, have used for races, TT's and sessions (even on the treadmill). I just feel fast when I wear these. I've had ongoing injury challenges last year and when I'm up to doing a session I'll grab these because my times will be relatively close to what I should be running when fit.

Summary:

1M/3k: Run Fast Pro / Next%
5k/10k: Next% / Adios Pro
10M / HM: Next% / Adios Pro
Mar: Next% / Speed

How many pairs of runners now Dom?

BeepBeep67 · 05-01-2021 5:27pm

OOnegative wrote: »

How many pairs of runners now Dom?

Cona · 05-01-2021 11:55pm

Anyone have issues when ordering direct from Nike....the last three orders I’ve placed with them they seem to seriously mess up. I ordered Vapourfly on the 28th and see that the payment was reverted to my account today. The order status says they will be with me on the 13th but from past experience I know in a day or two they will cancel the order and send me some make up excuse...
Weird thing is they seem to have plenty of stock so I’m confused now...

They seem to be a seriously messed up company to order from, I know I can’t be only one with this experience

Cona · 05-01-2021 11:59pm

iancairns wrote: »

As an owner of the Nike Alph and Vaporfly's I can honestly say they were the best buys I could have made. Money well spent. Incredible performance, and I can compare to a lot of others competitors I've tried.

I’m a newb to the carbon plates but I’m opting for the Vapourflys instead of the Alphas. Any thoughts on which you would choose if u were buying now?

Ceepo · 06-01-2021 12:00am

Cona wrote: »

Anyone have issues when ordering direct from Nike....the last three orders I’ve placed with them they seem to seriously mess up. I ordered Vapourfly on the 28th and see that the payment was reverted to my account today. The order status says they will be with me on the 13th but from past experience I know in a day or two they will cancel the order and send me some make up excuse...
Weird thing is they seem to have plenty of stock so I’m confused now...

They seem to be a seriously messed up company to order from, I know I can’t be only one with this experience

I've ordered from them a few times over the years and ever had any issue's like you describe tbh,

and still ricky villa · 06-01-2021 12:31am

Their inventory management isn't great. I've had things go out of stock after paying for my size. Once on Vaporfly's and 3 times recently on trail shoes during the black Friday sale.
They seem to take more than one order for a single pair then fix it later.

Murph_D · 06-01-2021 11:50pm

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I've now had a combination of runs across the Next%, Endorphin Pro, Endorphin Speed and Adios Pro, I've found these all to be true to size and infact would consider going down half a size in Sauncony (I'm a narrow foot btw).

I'll work backwards:

Adios Pro, straight out of the box 2hr relatively easy run [16.3miles/7:22pace], lovely fit, just very comfortable to wear, easy to lock-in. No mechanical issues on the run, honestly felt like I was running 10-15 seconds slower. 1 mile TT [5:02], lacking a little something at this pace, doesn't have the pushing forward feel that you get with the Nike and Saucony if I was staring at the Run Fast Pro and these for a smooth tarmac road race I think I would pick the Reebok for their lightness and racing flat feel. Would consider these for 10 mile plus races.

Endorphin Speed, if I could only throw 1 shoe in my bag for the rest of my life I'd be happy if it was this, true all-rounder and great across the paces. It's so comfortable, feels like a traditional shoe, decent tongue, lovely fit. I did do a little head to head comparison versus the Nike.

Same course for the first 4k.
5k I wore the Nike VaporFly Next%, 4k I wore the Saucony Endorphin Speed

HR data, I'm working at a similar level, in fact, a little harder for the 4k.
Cadence I'm turning over a little quicker in the Saucony.
The Nike's, however, gave me an extra 3cm per stride, doesn't sound much, but when you equalize the cadence and stride length it's +1.5%.

I think I would probably choose the Speed for a marathon where I wanted to limit the bomb damage.

Endorphin Pro, not sure what to do with this, it's good, better than a lot that I've worn, it fits well but too stiff for a daily driver, fast but maybe not fast enough for races. I just haven't warmed to it and actually rarely use it, in fact I think I wear for some 200's tonight, haven't tested it on a short session.

Next%, have used for races, TT's and sessions (even on the treadmill). I just feel fast when I wear these. I've had ongoing injury challenges last year and when I'm up to doing a session I'll grab these because my times will be relatively close to what I should be running when fit.

Summary:

1M/3k: Run Fast Pro / Next%
5k/10k: Next% / Adios Pro
10M / HM: Next% / Adios Pro
Mar: Next% / Speed

Great post - thanks for that. Agree re sizing - I’ve always taken Saucony a half size smaller than Nike and Adidas.

and still ricky villa · 07-01-2021 4:51pm

What are people's experiences with longevity on any of these shoes?
I'm currently rotating two pairs of Vaporflys and keep them for race pace workouts only but will most likely ignore the heavily marketed 100 mile limit.
Show me a shoe that retains that cushion and spring for longer and I'll happily switch

BeepBeep67 · 07-01-2021 6:42pm

and still ricky villa wrote: »

What are people's experiences with longevity on any of these shoes?
I'm currently rotating two pairs of Vaporflys and keep them for race pace workouts only but will most likely ignore the heavily marketed 100 mile limit.
Show me a shoe that retains that cushion and spring for longer and I'll happily switch

Approximately 306.24 miles

on 1 pair, with plenty of miles left

and still ricky villa · 07-01-2021 6:58pm

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Approximately 306.24 miles on 1 pair, with plenty of miles left

On Vaporflys? Nice

The Spy Queen · 07-01-2021 7:02pm

Very little mileage on my vaporflys and the diamond shapes on rear of sould have fell off both shoes making them impossible to run on in wet conditions. Recently bought a pair of pegasus turbo , 10 weeks ago and the soul on them is lifting away from main body of runner. Never happened on any other shoes ive bought. So imo quality of nikes are not great.

skyblue46 · 07-01-2021 8:31pm

^ Not a new profile of mine :pac::pac:

Cona · 11-01-2021 6:23pm

So got the new vapourflys. Have only tried them on in the house so far. Must say they feel fast and comfortable. Excited to try them now.
Will wait a few weeks to test them though. Had a long layoff due to sickness over Christmas so want to be feeling fit before I wear them (weird I know)

boydkev · 14-01-2021 3:14pm

Query for all who have the Next% Vaporflys, I got a pair for Xmas and they were my usual Nike size of 8 (42.5) just my initial thoughts are they are quite tight around the widest part of my foot, so to check i ordered another pair in size 8.5 using my birthday code. So the 8.5 arrived today and the width seems to be better but my concern is they will loosen over time. i Now need to return one of them.

How do others feel these shoes fit on them, Should they be snug or should i be allowing for expansion as they will be used for marathon distance.

demfad · 14-01-2021 4:55pm

Cona wrote: »

Anyone have issues when ordering direct from Nike....the last three orders I’ve placed with them they seem to seriously mess up. I ordered Vapourfly on the 28th and see that the payment was reverted to my account today. The order status says they will be with me on the 13th but from past experience I know in a day or two they will cancel the order and send me some make up excuse...
Weird thing is they seem to have plenty of stock so I’m confused now...

They seem to be a seriously messed up company to order from, I know I can’t be only one with this experience

Serious issues in International shipping capacity at moment which would explain shoes suddenly becoming unavailable (no space on ship not no stock).

https://www.lloydsloadinglist.com/freight-directory/news/China-UK-rates-top-16000feu-in-ocean-auction/78256.htm?cl=article_1&elqTrack=true&mc_cid=c49b948955&mc_eid=425a13f1ba#.YABmc-iwk2y

peter kern · 15-01-2021 2:30pm

Cona wrote: »

No offence here, but people really need to differentiate their needs. Your post seems to imply that you didn’t want to pay for the Nikes and went the next best thing that was more affordable for you. Totally fine.
For me I’d hate that approach. If I’m paying good money for something, I want the best available (even if it’s just psychological)

At the moment, the Nike still holds the crown and until we see evidence and testing it will prob stay that way.

sorry this is not correct we are now in an area where it depends on a runner what shoe will be faster.
and at the half marathon distance adidas already has 4 shoes in the 3 fastest men and female all time times and nike only 2.
from some individual testing i have seen the nike seems to always come in the top 2 so it might still be the safest bet but it does not hold the crown alone.

FinnC · 15-01-2021 3:19pm

boydkev wrote: »

Query for all who have the Next% Vaporflys, I got a pair for Xmas and they were my usual Nike size of 8 (42.5) just my initial thoughts are they are quite tight around the widest part of my foot, so to check i ordered another pair in size 8.5 using my birthday code. So the 8.5 arrived today and the width seems to be better but my concern is they will loosen over time. i Now need to return one of them.

How do others feel these shoes fit on them, Should they be snug or should i be allowing for expansion as they will be used for marathon distance.

I’m also a size 8, well I’m a size 42.5 as size 8 can be different for different manufacturers. Size 8 in New Balance for example is a 42 so I have to get an 8.5.
Anyway I got size 42.5 for the Next% and they fit fine though I have them 4 months and have only put 11km on them!

and still ricky villa · 15-01-2021 5:35pm

boydkev wrote: »

Query for all who have the Next% Vaporflys, I got a pair for Xmas and they were my usual Nike size of 8 (42.5) just my initial thoughts are they are quite tight around the widest part of my foot, so to check i ordered another pair in size 8.5 using my birthday code. So the 8.5 arrived today and the width seems to be better but my concern is they will loosen over time. i Now need to return one of them.

How do others feel these shoes fit on them, Should they be snug or should i be allowing for expansion as they will be used for marathon distance.

I would say they are true to size. I'm a bog standard 11UK in all other runners I have and went 11 in the Vaporflys. They fit well and I've just finished my longest run in them yet at 22km and no issues. The 2nd smallest toe on my right foot is sore but that is probably to do with battered odd feet more than sizing

Tigerandahalf · 15-01-2021 6:42pm

I notice the heel is very narrow on these Vaplorflies. I am wondering are there issues for people who wear down either side of the heal?
Maybe all Nikes are like this?

healy1835 · 15-01-2021 7:01pm

4%'s and Next%'s have both been true to size for me anyway.

MY BAD · 15-01-2021 9:44pm

Nike Vaporfly Next % 2 via Nike talk

Only change is to the upper and laces

rizzee · 05-02-2021 8:38pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I notice the heel is very narrow on these Vaplorflies. I am wondering are there issues for people who wear down either side of the heal?
Maybe all Nikes are like this?

Nearly 400kms on my Zoomfly Flyknits and the outter side of each heel slightly worn. Touching 200kms in my Vapourlflys and barely worn despite the narrow heel. Maybe it's just me!!

ThebitterLemon · 05-02-2021 8:59pm

Stupid question but how do these shoes make you go faster and are there different types/levels?

I’ve worn Nike Zoom Vomero for years but I’d be prepared to try these if they genuinely worked?

Thanks

TbL

OOnegative · 05-02-2021 9:15pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Stupid question but how do these shoes make you go faster and are there different types/levels?

I’ve worn Nike Zoom Vomero for years but I’d be prepared to try these if they genuinely worked?

Thanks

TbL

Don’t, you’re a caveman like me!! These hipsters are not for us C........

ThebitterLemon · 05-02-2021 9:20pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Don’t, you’re a caveman like me!! These hipsters are not for us C........

didn’t even know that such witchcraft existed, do they come in black and scutter proof

TbL

Swashbuckler · 05-02-2021 9:36pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Don’t, you’re a caveman like me!! These hipsters are not for us C........

How have you let him run in Vomeros for years.... Some friend!

OOnegative · 05-02-2021 9:42pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

How have you let him run in Vomeros for years.... Some friend!

Because when a friend feels comfortable in something you stick by them, even if it’s leggings/shorts combo.......

rizzee · 05-02-2021 9:43pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Stupid question but how do these shoes make you go faster and are there different types/levels?

I’ve worn Nike Zoom Vomero for years but I’d be prepared to try these if they genuinely worked?

Thanks

TbL

I got a pair of VFs last year and first try in 5km, 10km, 10m, HM and Marathon I PB'd, and some very significantly - Marathon 40 mins albeit it was a year since the last one I completed and a lot of training since, did another 3 weeks later and beat it by 4 mins. Went over 5mins PB in HM, over 1 min on 5km 1st try and then beating it even further on both 2nd and 3rd attempts! Well worth the investment. Got the Alphaflys delivered today which I'm going to pop out on a 5km TT next week to see what the story is with them.

Nike 60 day returns if you don't like them too!

ThebitterLemon · 05-02-2021 9:49pm

rizzee wrote: »

I got a pair of VFs last year and first try in 5km, 10km, 10m, HM and Marathon I PB'd, and some very significantly - Marathon 40 mins albeit it was a year since the last one I completed and a lot of training since, did another 3 weeks later and beat it by 4 mins. Went over 5mins PB in HM, over 1 min on 5km 1st try and then beating it even further on both 2nd and 3rd attempts! Well worth the investment. Got the Alphaflys delivered today which I'm going to pop out on a 5km TT next week to see what the story is with them.

Nike 60 day returns if you don't like them too!

Thank you.

What’s the science beyond how they work?

How much did you pay?

TbL

Dubh Geannain · 05-02-2021 9:58pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Stupid question but how do these shoes make you go faster and are there different types/levels?

I’ve worn Nike Zoom Vomero for years but I’d be prepared to try these if they genuinely worked?

Thanks

TbL

Paging Murph.

This race has taken a sinister turn. I hope he's keeping an eye on the food and nutrition forum too.

Laineyfrecks · 05-02-2021 9:59pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Thank you.

What’s the science beyond how they work?

How much did you pay?

TbL

You'll be walking that catwalk in style in no time :cool:;)

ThebitterLemon · 05-02-2021 10:25pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

You'll be walking that catwalk in style in no time :cool:;)

Black and scutter proof I said...:)

TbL

FinnC · 05-02-2021 10:52pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Stupid question but how do these shoes make you go faster and are there different types/levels?

I’ve worn Nike Zoom Vomero for years but I’d be prepared to try these if they genuinely worked?

Thanks

TbL

From a Vomero to a Next% would be like going from a Toyota Corolla to a McLaren F1..!

ThebitterLemon · 05-02-2021 10:55pm

FinnC wrote: »

From a Vomero to a Next% would be like going from a Toyota Corolla to a McLaren F1..!

Thanks

I probably just need to upgrade to a Passat to beat Murph.

Where can you buy these magic carpets I can’t find them available on the web?

TbL

Murph_D · 06-02-2021 12:58pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Thanks

I probably just need to upgrade to a Passat to beat Murph.

Where can you buy these magic carpets I can’t find them available on the web?

TbL

I'd say a Lada would be good enough the way I'm going at the moment.

I can't believe TbL is only hearing about the VF / Next% now though. Is this a sinister ploy to make us all think he's losing his marbles?

C - the VFs are very hard to get at the moment, but a man who moves in your kind of circles should have no problems. And if you want to know how they work, read the thread, you lazy sod.

skyblue46 · 06-02-2021 1:40pm

I think it's so sad that someone who derides bright shoes and coloured laces would resort to sprung platform shoes in lurid colours just to get an edge...:(

PS...have a look at the Craft CTM Ultra Carbon

https://www.craftsportswear.com/global/ctm-ultra-carbon-male-multi-color-1910453-013000

ThebitterLemon · 06-02-2021 1:45pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

I think it's so sad that someone who derides bright shoes and coloured laces would resort to sprung platform shoes in lurid colours just to get an edge...:(

PS...have a look at the Craft CTM Ultra Carbon

https://www.craftsportswear.com/global/ctm-ultra-carbon-male-multi-color-1910453-013000

Those craft yokes only have pygmy sizes left and I’d look like a pygmy zebra to boot

TbL

Butterbeans · 06-02-2021 4:49pm

Sizewize, does anyone have any pointers on the Vaporflys Next%.
I've read they fit 1/2 size small. I usually take size 10, but the last pair of Nike I had (which was over 5 years ago) were 10.5, and I probably could have gone up a half size in them.

Murph_D · 06-02-2021 5:10pm

Butterbeans wrote: »

Sizewize, does anyone have any pointers on the Vaporflys Next%.
I've read they fit 1/2 size small. I usually take size 10, but the last pair of Nike I had (which was over 5 years ago) were 10.5, and I probably could have gone up a half size in them.

I find the sizing consistent with other Nike models.

ThebitterLemon · 06-02-2021 6:08pm

Murph_D wrote: »

I find the sizing consistent with other Nike models.

So you’ve been wearing these yokes...

TbL

Laineyfrecks · 06-02-2021 6:16pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

So you’ve been wearing these yokes...

TbL

Can't wait for this showdown...both in your VF's :cool::pac:

skyblue46 · 06-02-2021 6:23pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Can't wait for this showdown...both in your VF's :cool::pac:

It should be a race to sub 19 wearing those things...

OOnegative · 06-02-2021 6:29pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

It should be a race to sub 19 wearing those things...

TbL couldn’t run a sub 19 100m let alone 5k in cheat shoes......

Murph_D · 06-02-2021 7:35pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

So you’ve been wearing these yokes...

TbL

Post #2 in this thread. Keep up!

ThebitterLemon · 06-02-2021 7:53pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Post #2 in this thread. Keep up!

I’ll bate ya in these:

https://tenor.com/view/funinthesun-puertovallarta-neora-gif-19090555

TbL

Treviso · 06-02-2021 8:06pm

Has anyone approached Nike to sponsor this duel?

ThebitterLemon · 06-02-2021 8:13pm

Treviso wrote: »

Has anyone approached Nike to sponsor this duel?

Age Action Ireland are sponsoring the bibs, the eating ones not the running ones...

TbL

OOnegative · 06-02-2021 8:31pm

Pampers are sponsoring the shorts I hear........

Ferris B · 06-02-2021 8:48pm

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Stupid question but how do these shoes make you go faster and are there different types/levels?

I’ve worn Nike Zoom Vomero for years but I’d be prepared to try these if they genuinely worked?

Thanks

TbL

Highly recommend Saucony Endorphin Speed or Endorphin Pro.

Cheaper too.

ThebitterLemon · 06-02-2021 8:53pm

Ferris B wrote: »

Highly recommend Saucony Endorphin Speed or Endorphin Pro.

Cheaper too.

Jesus it appears all the auld lads have been wearing these magic carpets while I’ve been plodding around in manly breeze blocks

TbL

Next%- the ongoing debate

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