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Next%- the ongoing debate

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  • ewc78 wrote: »
    I bought the Endorphin Speeds during lockdown in The Run Hub. Absolutely love them.

    Were your runs noticeably faster with them? I'm considering going for a pair.




  • Yevon wrote: »
    Were your runs noticeably faster with them? I'm considering going for a pair.

    I’m not a very fast runner, 5km PB around 21:30. The Endorphin Speeds aren’t going to suddenly turn me into a sub 20 5km runner.
    What they do though is make the effort it takes to run certain paces feel easier.Running Marathon Pace or half marathon pace miles in them just seems easier. At the end of long runs I sometimes throw in 3 or 4 miles at Marathon/half marathon pace and while tough to do it is always easier to do it while wearing the Speeds compared to another shoe.
    So yes they certainly can make you faster as you can do a better pace for the same effort it takes in another shoe at a slower pace.
    I’ve over 300km on mine now and they are still in good shape and I won’t hesitate to buy another pair. Probably the most comfortable shoe I’ve ever worn also. Can be worn for easy long runs and fast intervals and everything inbetween.




  • ewc78 wrote: »
    I’m not a very fast runner, 5km PB around 21:30. The Endorphin Speeds aren’t going to suddenly turn me into a sub 20 5km runner.
    What they do though is make the effort it takes to run certain paces feel easier.Running Marathon Pace or half marathon pace miles in them just seems easier. At the end of long runs I sometimes throw in 3 or 4 miles at Marathon/half marathon pace and while tough to do it is always easier to do it while wearing the Speeds compared to another shoe.
    So yes they certainly can make you faster as you can do a better pace for the same effort it takes in another shoe at a slower pace.
    I’ve over 300km on mine now and they are still in good shape and I won’t hesitate to buy another pair. Probably the most comfortable shoe I’ve ever worn also. Can be worn for easy long runs and fast intervals and everything inbetween.

    Interesting. I'd be around the same level, currently have the Asics Gliderides and I love them. I think the Saucony have a similar roller profile so tempted to try them.




  • ewc78 wrote: »
    I’m not a very fast runner, 5km PB around 21:30. The Endorphin Speeds aren’t going to suddenly turn me into a sub 20 5km runner.


    I was at the same time up to a few months ago. Trained my ass off in Hoka Cliftons all summer for Nov marathon. 5k time trial in October down to 20:07 and that route mostly cinderpath and gravel has very nasty short incline at 2k (13% at its worst). You spend the next 200 metres trying to catch your breath.

    If I run the same route in my Next% will I get under 20mins? Probably as the extra feedback for the last km will defo help. But a large part of me would prefer to run it my Hoka.




  • I was at the same time up to a few months ago. Trained my ass off in Hoka Cliftons all summer for Nov marathon. 5k time trial in October down to 20:07 and that route mostly cinderpath and gravel has very nasty short incline at 2k (13% at its worst). You spend the next 200 metres trying to catch your breath.

    If I run the same route in my Next% will I get under 20mins? Probably as the extra feedback for the last km will defo help. But a large part of me would prefer to run it my Hoka.

    Fair play doing that time in a pair of Cliftons. I had the Clifton 5 and found them clunky and certainly not a fast shoe. I’ve no doubt you’d go faster in the next%.
    I more meant the Endorphins weren’t going to turn me into a sub 20min 5k over night. I’ve absolutely no doubt though they would make the difference if I was as close to breaking 20mins as you are.


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  • ewc78 wrote: »
    Fair play doing that time in a pair of Cliftons. I had the Clifton 5 and found them clunky and certainly not a fast shoe. I’ve no doubt you’d go faster in the next%.
    I more meant the Endorphins weren’t going to turn me into a sub 20min 5k over night. I’ve absolutely no doubt though they would make the difference if I was as close to breaking 20mins as you are.


    It hurt...a poor elderly couple walking their dog got a glimpse of me dry wretching over a fence as I finished...:o


    3 days before I had to do the same route twice flat out on my own with a 5 minute break (21:04 and 22:03). I don't think my coach likes me.




  • I was at the same time up to a few months ago. Trained my ass off in Hoka Cliftons all summer for Nov marathon. 5k time trial in October down to 20:07 and that route mostly cinderpath and gravel has very nasty short incline at 2k (13% at its worst). You spend the next 200 metres trying to catch your breath.

    If I run the same route in my Next% will I get under 20mins? Probably as the extra feedback for the last km will defo help. But a large part of me would prefer to run it my Hoka.
    I came within 3 seconds of my all time 5km PB in my first run in the Next% without any specific training for it. Closest I came all year had been about 30seconds, not that I was constantly attempting to PB or anything but every now and then I’d do a 5km time trial though also without any specific training for it.
    I’ve no doubt with a bit of training for it I’d absolutely smash my PB wearing the Next%
    Is the reason you want to wear the Clifton over the Next% because you’d feel it more of an accomplishment doing it in the Cliftons and it wasn’t because of the shoe you were wearing?




  • Casey78 wrote: »
    I came within 3 seconds of my all time 5km PB in my first run in the Next% without any specific training for it. Closest I came all year had been about 30seconds, not that I was constantly attempting to PB or anything but every now and then I’d do a 5km time trial though also without any specific training for it.
    I’ve no doubt with a bit of training for it I’d absolutely smash my PB wearing the Next%
    Is the reason you want to wear the Clifton over the Next% because you’d feel it more of an accomplishment doing it in the Cliftons and it wasn’t because of the shoe you were wearing?

    Basically yeah. I would rather break 20min for the first time in Hokas. Now if I were to consistantly start running under 20 then I would be happy to revert to the Next% for the odd Parkrun.

    Marathon last month in Next% having trained 100% in Hoka. In the middle of that race I Pd in all of the following distances-

    Marathon
    30k
    HM
    20k
    20 mile
    15k
    10k
    2nd fastest mile
    3rd fastest 1km- there was a short fast decline after 22 km

    Make of that what you will...:o




  • ewc78 wrote: »
    I’m not a very fast runner, 5km PB around 21:30. The Endorphin Speeds aren’t going to suddenly turn me into a sub 20 5km runner.
    What they do though is make the effort it takes to run certain paces feel easier.Running Marathon Pace or half marathon pace miles in them just seems easier. At the end of long runs I sometimes throw in 3 or 4 miles at Marathon/half marathon pace and while tough to do it is always easier to do it while wearing the Speeds compared to another shoe.
    So yes they certainly can make you faster as you can do a better pace for the same effort it takes in another shoe at a slower pace.
    I’ve over 300km on mine now and they are still in good shape and I won’t hesitate to buy another pair. Probably the most comfortable shoe I’ve ever worn also. Can be worn for easy long runs and fast intervals and everything inbetween.

    Was going to wait and see if I can get a pair of the endorphin pro but this might have convinced me to go for the speeds




  • Basically yeah. I would rather break 20min for the first time in Hokas. Now if I were to consistantly start running under 20 then I would be happy to revert to the Next% for the odd Parkrun.

    Marathon last month in Next% having trained 100% in Hoka. In the middle of that race I Pd in all of the following distances-

    Marathon
    30k
    HM
    20k
    20 mile
    15k
    10k
    2nd fastest mile
    3rd fastest 1km- there was a short fast decline after 22 km

    Make of that what you will...:o

    What time did you do in Marathon?


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  • Basically yeah. I would rather break 20min for the first time in Hokas. Now if I were to consistantly start running under 20 then I would be happy to revert to the Next% for the odd Parkrun.

    Marathon last month in Next% having trained 100% in Hoka. In the middle of that race I Pd in all of the following distances-

    Marathon
    30k
    HM
    20k
    20 mile
    15k
    10k
    2nd fastest mile
    3rd fastest 1km- there was a short fast decline after 22 km

    Make of that what you will...:o

    I vaguely recall seeing some more updates from you here and thinking you were doing a disservice to the training and giving too much credit to the runners. Maybe I'm wrong but there was a noticeable difference in how you trained.




  • I'm going to treat myself after Christmas so just wondering if anyone can answer either of these two questions:

    1) What is the best non-Nike carbon plate shoe that is actually available? Particularly for 5k?

    2) Are there still lightweight racing flats around? My favourite racing flat was probably the Asics Piranha (about 110g). I've seen the Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pro listed as lighter but don't know anyone who's raced in one. Any others in that ballpark?




  • Sacksian wrote: »
    I'm going to treat myself after Christmas so just wondering if anyone can answer either of these two questions:

    1) What is the best non-Nike carbon plate shoe that is actually available? Particularly for 5k?

    2) Are there still lightweight racing flats around? My favourite racing flat was probably the Asics Piranha (about 110g). I've seen the Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pro listed as lighter but don't know anyone who's raced in one. Any others in that ballpark?

    Adidas adizero adios pro and saucony endorphin pro seem to be the top rated carbon plate shoes at the mo other than Nike. Not sure specifically for 5k though.

    In terms of racing flats, the Adidas sub 2 is the lightest shoe I've ever worn. I love it. Not sure how it weighs up against those you mentioned though. M&M direct had a great deal on them recently.




  • Adidas adizero adios pro and saucony endorphin pro seem to be the top rated carbon plate shoes at the mo other than Nike. Not sure specifically for 5k though.

    In terms of racing flats, the Adidas sub 2 is the lightest shoe I've ever worn. I love it. Not sure how it weighs up against those you mentioned though. M&M direct had a great deal on them recently.

    FerrisB is a big fan of the endorphin Pros I think, might take the plunge at some stage in the new year




  • Duanington wrote: »
    FerrisB is a big fan of the endorphin Pros I think, might take the plunge at some stage in the new year

    I bought a pair last month. A glorious shoe! I just need to test them out across 26.2 miles to get a proper feel for them ;)




  • I bought a pair last month. A glorious shoe! I just need to test them out across 26.2 miles to get a proper feel for them ;)

    Thought you weren’t allowed have them!!!




  • Adidas adizero adios pro and saucony endorphin pro seem to be the top rated carbon plate shoes at the mo other than Nike. Not sure specifically for 5k though.

    In terms of racing flats, the Adidas sub 2 is the lightest shoe I've ever worn. I love it. Not sure how it weighs up against those you mentioned though. M&M direct had a great deal on them recently.

    Thanks - I would probably go for Adidas adizero adios pro (based on results) but I don't think they're easy to get are they?

    The Adidas sub 2 is 177 grams, so about the same as the old Brooks Hyperion but a bit heavier than a really lightweight flat. I liked the old Hyperion but felt it was more of a half-marathon racer.

    I had a sub 2 a few years ago, not sure if it's the same version but I really couldn't get comfortable in it...just thought there was no life to it at all and wasn't light enough to feel dangerously fast. I bought it for a half-marathon but went with the Hyperions instead. Kept the sub 2s as an expensive walking shoe!




  • OOnegative wrote: »
    Thought you weren’t allowed have them!!!

    Wasn't allowed open them til Xmas day!




  • Sacksian wrote: »
    Thanks - I would probably go for Adidas adizero adios pro (based on results) but I don't think they're easy to get are they?

    The Adidas sub 2 is 177 grams, so about the same as the old Brooks Hyperion but a bit heavier than a really lightweight flat. I liked the old Hyperion but felt it was more of a half-marathon racer.

    I had a sub 2 a few years ago, not sure if it's the same version but I really couldn't get comfortable in it...just thought there was no life to it at all and wasn't light enough to feel dangerously fast. I bought it for a half-marathon but went with the Hyperions instead. Kept the sub 2s as an expensive walking shoe!

    Alltricks are good for finding some of the rarer runners. That's where I got the endorphins. I was worried as I hadn't used that site before but there were no issues and other posters on here have had no issues either.

    I figured when you mentioned the weight of some of the racing flats your probably much more experienced in that range than me. Adizero adios 3 was my racer for years but again that's not in the same league as the weights you mention.




  • Adidas adizero adios pro and saucony endorphin pro seem to be the top rated carbon plate shoes at the mo other than Nike. Not sure specifically for 5k though.

    In terms of racing flats, the Adidas sub 2 is the lightest shoe I've ever worn. I love it. Not sure how it weighs up against those you mentioned though. M&M direct had a great deal on them recently.

    Saw your post about the sub 2s at the time the deal was on. I bought a pair. I know next to nothing about runners but had heard about racing flats. So when I saw your post I figured I'd gamble on a pair. I didn't know myself running with them the first couple of times. They were what I was wearing when I ran 17:17 for the 5k (almost 30 seconds quicker than I expected to run that night). You're probably responsible for a few of those seconds, so thanks ;)


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  • Saw your post about the sub 2s at the time the deal was on. I bought a pair. I know next to nothing about runners but had heard about racing flats. So when I saw your post I figured I'd gamble on a pair. I didn't know myself running with them the first couple of times. They were what I was wearing when I ran 17:17 for the 5k (almost 30 seconds quicker than I expected to run that night). You're probably responsible for a few of those seconds, so thanks ;)

    I'll gladly take the credit. Haha. I must break them out at some stage for a TT. Definitely saving them for racing. They seem too good to waste in sessions.




  • Would anyone know if any real shops like Lifestyle etc are selling Vapourflys? Would like to pick up a pair but dont want to order online as not sure of the sizing of these...?




  • Nike are releasing the Vaporfly 2 next summer.




  • MY BAD wrote: »
    Nike are releasing the Vaporfly 2 next summer.

    I thought the alphafly was the vaporfly 3 :confused:




  • Murph_D wrote: »
    I thought the alphafly was the vaporfly 3 :confused:
    So did I :D




  • Maybe an admission that the vaporfly was the better design, now that some athletes seem to have rejected the alphafly.




  • So am I right in saying;
    4% = vaporfly 1
    Next% = vaporfly 2
    Alphafly = vaporfly 3




  • So am I right in saying;
    4% = vaporfly 1
    Next% = vaporfly 2
    Alphafly = vaporfly 3

    Could they not just keep it simple like the Pegasus 1-37 instead of stupid fancy names!!!




  • OOnegative wrote: »
    Could they not just keep it simple like the Pegasus 1-37 instead of stupid fancy names!!!

    I'll never question the marketing machine that is Nike. Its astonishing the money people have spent on these, mostly down to brilliant marketing.


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  • I believe it's actually the Vaporfly NEXT% 2 that's coming :)

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CJV0OL3nj21/?igshid=1hbitk3p1fr56


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