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Winter 20/21 - General Discussion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donegal Storm


    This has to be one of the longest spells of slate grey skies I can remember in recent times, honestly can't recall seeing the sun even once since two weekends ago. Another dank drizzly day today


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,091 ✭✭✭appledrop


    This has to be one of the longest spells of slate grey skies I can remember in recent times, honestly can't recall seeing the sun even once since two weekends ago. Another dank drizzly day today

    We have been exact same here on NCD.

    However about 10 minutes again sun started peaking out of clouds. We actually didn't know why room was getting bright because it has been so dull.

    I'm sure it will disappear again in 5 minutes but lovely to look at out the window!

    Edited: Yep it only lasted 5 mins, ah well bring on snow + hopefully some sunshine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Weather advisory for Eastern counties from Sunday till Wednesday


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    From reading this forum for the last 10/12 odd years or so, it has become clear that easterlies, while they tend to bring more snow to the more highly populated areas of the country than northerlies would, is also snow that tends to be very localised. (a dusting in Bray; 2 foot a couple of miles away). Northerlies and all their varying components bring heavier snows that cover a lot more of the country. We get snow from the east here occasionally here in Galway, but in terms of quality and intensity, it isn't a patch on snow from the north. However, after saying all of that, snow from the north has pretty much become a thing of the past.

    New Moon



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    There is unbelievably STILL multiple patches of snow lying about above 200 metres! Unbelievable given the constant rain we have had.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    No.. winds move from west to east.

    What do you mean no. Its a cold water current which runs down the Canadian east coast and has a moderating effect on the climate of the coastal lands in its path, making the summers there cooler, and winters more severely cold. Just like gulf streams keeps us mild. Anyway I'll say no more about it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Arduach wrote: »
    These are ocean currents:confused:

    Cold air is moved by advection (winds), not the ocean. Our air is primarily mild because the winds blow from the ocean.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    What do you mean no. Its a cold water current which runs down the Canadian east coast and has a moderating effect on the climate of the coastal lands in its path, making the summers there cooler, and winters more severely cold. Just like gulf streams keeps us mild. Anyway I'll say no more about it.

    The Gulf Stream isn’t directly responsible for our mild weather. It’s the winds.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Arduach


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Cold air is moved by advection (winds), not the ocean. Our air is primarily mild because the winds blow from the ocean.

    The ocean currents effect the temperature of the air where they pass.

    If the gulf stream was pushed south and we had westerly winds our air temps would be a lot colder than at present with westerlies.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Arduach wrote: »
    The ocean currents effect the temperature of the air where they pass.

    If the gulf stream was pushed south and we had westerly winds our air temps would be a lot colder than at present with westerlies.

    The Gulf Stream has a small affect on our ocean temperatures. The ocean still reaches 8-9c just off the coast of this island in winter months.

    https://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/contour/global.fc.gif

    If you look at charts of water to the west of the North Atlantic Current and to the east of the Labrador current, the water temperature is around 5c. So it wouldn’t be that much colder.

    As stated earlier the mild weather is caused by a westerly wind blowing off the ocean. If it was caused by the Gulf Stream, next weeks easterly wouldn’t be possible.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Arduach


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    The Gulf Stream has a small affect on our ocean temperatures. The ocean still reaches 8-9c just off the coast of this island in winter months.

    https://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/contour/global.fc.gif

    If you look at charts of water to the west of the North Atlantic Current and to the east of the Labrador current, the water temperature is around 5c. So it wouldn’t be that much colder.

    As stated earlier the mild weather is caused by a westerly wind blowing off the ocean. If it was caused by the Gulf Stream, next weeks easterly wouldn’t be possible.

    4C is a big difference Nqp when it comes to moderating air flows. Of course next week's airflow has far less ocean to travel over. But in general most weather coming from the other directions are being moderated by gulf stream ocean. Hence the difference between Labrador and Ireland being at the same latitude but their climate being much colder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Arduach


    Going very off topic but I know people from south and west Kerry who never saw lying snow until they came to the midlands. That's the gulf stream influence.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    The Gulf Stream is not the direct cause of mild weather. It is the source of the air mass and the direction of the wind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Arduach


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    The Gulf Stream is not the direct cause of mild weather. It is the source of the air mass and the direction of the wind.

    Ok if we didn't have the gulf stream what would our climate be like?

    It doesn't influence 'weather' coming from the east, which is very occasional, but it effects our climate, big time.

    Without it would we have more snowfall and cold, absolutely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    The Gulf Stream has a small affect on our ocean temperatures. The ocean still reaches 8-9c just off the coast of this island in winter months.

    https://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/contour/global.fc.gif

    If you look at charts of water to the west of the North Atlantic Current and to the east of the Labrador current, the water temperature is around 5c. So it wouldn’t be that much colder.

    As stated earlier the mild weather is caused by a westerly wind blowing off the ocean. If it was caused by the Gulf Stream, next weeks easterly wouldn’t be possible.

    I’ve spent a bit of time working in the waters around Newfoundland, the temps there are 5-10 degrees below ours. That’s the difference between rare enough snow events here and sea ice and snow on the ground for 4 months in Newfoundland.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Arduach wrote: »
    Ok if we didn't have the gulf stream what would our climate be like?

    It doesn't influence 'weather' coming from the east, which is very occasional, but it effects our climate, big time.

    Without it would we have more snowfall and cold, absolutely.

    It would be marginally cooler. But still mild because the wind is coming off the ocean.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Bogwoppit wrote: »
    I’ve spent a bit of time working in the waters around Newfoundland, the temps there are 5-10 degrees below ours. That’s the difference between rare enough snow events here and sea ice and snow on the ground for 4 months in Newfoundland.

    It’s not. The prevailing wind direction in Newfoundland is off the North American continent.

    https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/gander_canada_5959335


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    NFL lies just off the NE edge of one of the biggest land masses on the planet. A common westerly to them is similar to a rare easterly for us. If NFL was located off the west coast of Canada but on the same latitude as it currently is, its climate would be almost as bleak as ours.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 36 Seymour20


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »
    NFL lies just off the NE edge of one of the biggest land masses on the planet. A common westerly to them is similar to a rare easterly for us. If NFL was located off the west coast of Canada but on the same latitude as it currently is, its climate would be almost as bleak as ours.

    A bleak climate similar to ours on the west coast of Canada would be Haida Gwaii. Believe it’s pretty bleak climate wise.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Seymour20 wrote: »
    A bleak climate similar to ours on the west coast of Canada would be Haida Gwaii. Believe it’s pretty bleak climate wise.

    From that article:
    "Precipitation is typically extremely frequent (especially from autumn to mid-winter), occurring on around two-thirds of all days even in relatively shielded areas, and direct sunlight is scarce, averaging around 3 to 4 hours per day."

    Sounds like home from home.

    New Moon



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Arduach


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    It’s not. The prevailing wind direction in Newfoundland is off the North American continent.

    https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/gander_canada_5959335

    By that logic you would expect Labrador and Newfoundland to have warmer summers than us with wind blowing off a very warm continent.

    However the island of Newfoundland has an average summer temperature of 16°C (61°F), much the same as the southern half of ireland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Arduach


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    There is unbelievably STILL multiple patches of snow lying about above 200 metres! Unbelievable given the constant rain we have had.

    Could depend on what way the ditches are facing. I see it at home often enough, compacted snow with a high ditch sheltering the snow from rain. In February 1996 we had snow lying until the end of February that fell on the 30th January. Same with snow that fell around the 2nd Feb 2009, it was there until the end of the month in favoured spots. We're 336m asl.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    The Gulf Stream isn’t directly responsible for our mild weather. It’s the winds.

    Well without the gulf stream winters in this part of the world are estimated to be 5c or more cooler.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    Arduach wrote: »
    4C is a big difference Nqp when it comes to moderating air flows. Of course next week's airflow has far less ocean to travel over. But in general most weather coming from the other directions are being moderated by gulf stream ocean. Hence the difference between Labrador and Ireland being at the same latitude but their climate being much colder.

    I completely agree.

    St. John's newfoundland

    The average water temperature in St. John's in winter reaches 1°C/33.8°F, in spring 1°C/33.8°F, in summer the average temperature rises to 11°C/51.8°F, and in autumn it is 9°C/48.2°F.

    Average sea temperature in galway in winter is 8c. 10c in spring. 15c in summer.

    So a 7c difference in winter. Which has massive impacts. How often does cold air get modified travelling over the relatively mild ocean and we end with cold rain or sleet. 7c cooler you wouldn't have to worry about that. So the ocean currents make a massive difference.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭circadian


    Seymour20 wrote: »
    A bleak climate similar to ours on the west coast of Canada would be Haida Gwaii. Believe it’s pretty bleak climate wise.


    Pacific BC is both spectaculary wet and spectaculary beautiful.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Arduach wrote: »
    By that logic you would expect Labrador and Newfoundland to have warmer summers than us with wind blowing off a very warm continent.

    However the island of Newfoundland has an average summer temperature of 16°C (61°F), much the same as the southern half of ireland?

    No. The average summer highs is around 22-23c which is similar to southern England.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Falls-Windsor


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    Well without the gulf stream winters in this part of the world are estimated to be 5c or more cooler.

    I seriously doubt it. We would possibly be in between Reykjavik and Torshavn. Cold spells wouldn’t be moderated as much.

    But the ocean would still be relatively mild at 5c.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    I completely agree.

    St. John's newfoundland

    The average water temperature in St. John's in winter reaches 1°C/33.8°F, in spring 1°C/33.8°F, in summer the average temperature rises to 11°C/51.8°F, and in autumn it is 9°C/48.2°F.

    Average sea temperature in galway in winter is 8c. 10c in spring. 15c in summer.

    So a 7c difference in winter. Which has massive impacts. How often does cold air get modified travelling over the relatively mild ocean and we end with cold rain or sleet. 7c cooler you wouldn't have to worry about that. So the ocean currents make a massive difference.

    The air in Newfoundland doesn’t travel over ocean. It moves east from the Plains or SE from Baffin Island.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    I seriously doubt it. We would possibly be in between Reykjavik and Torshavn. Cold spells wouldn’t be moderated as much.

    But the ocean would still be relatively mild at 5c.

    Where are you getting your figure the ocean temperature would be 5c. Just a guess?

    BBC climate
    "The Gulf Stream brings warmth to the UK and north-west Europe and is the reason we have mild winters. Without this steady stream of warmth the British Isles winters are estimated to be more than 5C cooler, bringing the average December temperature in London to about 2C."


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    The air in Newfoundland doesn’t travel over ocean. It moves east from the Plains or SE from Baffin Island.

    You completed ignored what was said.

    The sea temperature is 1c at St johns New foundland in winter due to the cold labrador current. Its 8c in Galway due to the gulf stream.

    If we didn't have the gulf stream and a cold current instead like newfoundland our climate would be a lot colder due to much less modification of air masses.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    You completed ignored what was said.

    The sea temperature is 1c at St johns New foundland in winter due to the cold labrador current. Its 8c in Galway due to the gulf stream.

    If we didn't have the gulf stream and a cold current instead like newfoundland our climate would be a lot colder due to much less modification of air masses.

    It wouldn’t be a lot colder, it would be marginally colder as the ocean surface temperatures would still be in the “cool” category.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    You completed ignored what was said.

    The sea temperature is 1c at St johns New foundland in winter due to the cold labrador current. Its 8c in Galway due to the gulf stream.

    If we didn't have the gulf stream and a cold current instead like newfoundland our climate would be a lot colder due to much less modification of air masses.

    The mid Atlantic Ocean is not affected by an extensive ocean currents. The average sea temperature there is 4-5c.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    It wouldn’t be a lot colder, it would be marginally colder as the ocean surface temperatures would still be in the “cool” category.

    If the sea temperatures were 1c in Galway bay and all the way west across the Atlantic at Galway's latitude then any system coming over from Canada would make it here as wet snow right onto the coast too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    It wouldn’t be a lot colder, it would be marginally colder as the ocean surface temperatures would still be in the “cool” category.

    So by your own made up figure, a 3 to 4c reduction in sea temperatures around Ireland would only have a marginal impact on the climate. That's ridiculous. Anyway there's no hope or point.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    I just said that the mid Atlantic averages 4-5c


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Arduach


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    No. The average summer highs is around 22-23c which is similar to southern England.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Falls-Windsor

    An average night and day temperature of 16c in summer, same as Ireland. With air off the American continent it should be higher. Not because of the labrador current.

    https://www.newfoundlandlabrador.com/about-this-place/climate-and-weather


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Continental Climates have a greater diurnal range.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭eskimocat


    "Evening all!".... wanders in, looks about, yup..."Long time no see!"....well things seem to be the same old, same old,...the charts just don't seem to oconfidently bring the promise of a nationwide blanket of snow, and thus leaves us all with the 'who is gonna get what, when ?' ..... It feels like an old classic of a song that comes on the radio and before you know it you are humming along.... Beast from the East, When the North Wind doth blow, then we shall have snow...and fond memories of previous forecasts and events tumble around your head. Then you show up in the Weather forum of boards.ie :)

    Hope all the gang that I recognise on here are doing well, thanks for continuing to bring the interesting discussions and forecasting experience. To the newier crew, looking forward to seeing your insights and predictions. As for me, I'm just here for the F1 views, so i'll go back to lurking now. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭noobsnow95


    Would anyone be able to tell me what sort of scenario is best for Limerick in terms of snow? We never seem to benefit greatly from either easterlies or northerly fronts apart from a few flurries. Is a battleground scenario the most favourable?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    eskimocat wrote: »
    "Evening all!".... wanders in, looks about, yup..."Long time no see!"...

    Lockdown cans bring out the bravery in all of us! :D:D:D :pac:

    Welcome back, nice time for an "Eskimo" to turn up, hopefully you'll feel well at home this coming week! :p


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    noobsnow95 wrote: »
    Would anyone be able to tell me what sort of scenario is best for Limerick in terms of snow? We never seem to benefit greatly from either easterlies or northerly fronts apart from a few flurries. Is a battleground scenario the most favourable?

    For Limerick, the city I presume - you'd need a stalling Atlantic occluded front over Ireland positioned west of the Shannon.

    Limerick City, along with west coastal Waterford and East coastal Cork is one of the geographically unlucky areas for snow on this fair isle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭Clonmel1000


    Had what I think was about 10 mins sun today. God it was lovely and you could feel the rays. Some talk of icy cold weather again next week however unfortunately for those of us who don’t like cold rain and icy roads. February is still very much a winter month in fairness. For me Patrick’s Day is spring although how many parades have you been at where it’s been cold and wet! Syrah might have a rundown on Paddy’s Day for us closer to the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭noobsnow95


    Danno wrote: »
    For Limerick, the city I presume - you'd need a stalling Atlantic occluded front over Ireland positioned west of the Shannon.

    Limerick City, along with west coastal Waterford and East coastal Cork is one of the geographically unlucky areas for snow on this fair isle.


    Cheers Danno! Here's hoping for something around these parts during the cold snap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    I am teaching climate to my second years at the minute. i love the topic but i think some are getting lost , theres simply so much science involved hard for some 14 year old to take in dosent help if they have neighbours or snapchat banging away in background i guess.

    But i noticed sea currents seem to have a huge amount to do with climate. Only this week while researching the class i noticed that a lot of cold water curents that flow past continents inmid latitudes result in desert/dry climate. every day a school day !

    Have a few other locations i would love to find out more on thier climate, one such is Kamatchka Russia


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Arduach


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Continental Climates have a greater diurnal range.

    You said daily max average was around 22C. Again only a degree or so higher than us. Note my article about a short summer, 16c daily average. Despite wind from the very warm continent. It's obvious the labrador current cools down summers aswell as winters.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Nqp15hhu


    Is it just my area? I can hear transatlantic flights at 30,000 feet + very clearly. Almost as if they are 5,000 feet above. Very odd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    I am teaching climate to my second years at the minute. i love the topic but i think some are getting lost , theres simply so much science involved hard for some 14 year old to take in dosent help if they have neighbours or snapchat banging away in background i guess.

    But i noticed sea currents seem to have a huge amount to do with climate. Only this week while researching the class i noticed that a lot of cold water curents that flow past continents inmid latitudes result in desert/dry climate. every day a school day !

    Have a few other locations i would love to find out more on thier climate, one such is Kamatchka Russia

    Fantastic to read this - keep up the good work.

    Nothing beats a teacher who will inquisitively seek out a broader picture of what is a complex science and relay this to their students.

    Your students are lucky to have you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Had what I think was about 10 mins sun today. God it was lovely and you could feel the rays. Some talk of icy cold weather again next week however unfortunately for those of us who don’t like cold rain and icy roads. February is still very much a winter month in fairness. For me Patrick’s Day is spring although how many parades have you been at where it’s been cold and wet! Syrah might have a rundown on Paddy’s Day for us closer to the time.

    Interesting you point this out, one of two take away points of the Feb 2018 event for me was spending two hours out in the garden during a break between the streamers. Was with the kiddies building a snowman. I got sunburnt. That and the drifts from the big finale were the two memories.

    Getting sunburnt on Feb 27th/28th (can't remember which afternoon) is certainly a novelty!

    St. Patrick's day is probably a marker to the end of winter through a pagan calendar somewhere, but I'd never turn my back on snow till March is out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭Clonmel1000


    Nqp15hhu wrote: »
    Is it just my area? I can hear transatlantic flights at 30,000 feet + very clearly. Almost as if they are 5,000 feet above. Very odd.

    Same here I’ve been scrambling to flight radar a lot the last few days staring longingly at the screen wishing it was me up there.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,091 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Clonmel St. Patricks Day is always a strange one.

    We always went to parade in City Centre as a child + yes I can remember freezing cold ones but also remember plenty when you would be lovely and warm in sunshine.

    However I can 100% confirm that last few years have definitely been freezing cold/wet as I continue the tradition with my own child, apart from last year.


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