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Bennett robbed at RTE sports awards

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    #182
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,374 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    COVID wrote: »
    Not casting any aspersions on Sam Bennet, his reputation is untarnished thus far.
    But I'm not surprised that the anonymous RTE panel didn't choose him as the 2020 'Sports Person of the Year', even if he was one of the official nominees.
    No amount of whataboutery can gainsay the fact that professional cycling's reputation as a 'clean' sport is still in the toilet.
    It's less than ten years since self-confessed doper supreme Lance Armstrong appeared on the Oprey Winfrey show stating: ''I didn't invent the culture, but I didn't try to stop the culture, and that's my mistake.''

    So now that there's a new generation of professional cyclists, its supporters and enthusiasts would have us - the slightly more sceptical - believe that it's all fine and dandy and that the performance-enhancing drug culture, endemic to pro-cycling and prevalent since the 19th century in cycle racing, has changed, and changed utterly, there's nothing to see here now, move along...the leopard in the room has changed his spots!

    Really?

    Btw, a quick glance through Wiki produced this comical gem: '' The acceptance of drug-taking in the Tour de France was so complete by 1930 that the rule book, distributed by Henri Desgrange, reminded riders that drugs would not be provided by the organisers.''

    OK all that is argument about the sport itself rather than the reputation of the individual. If Bennett as individual was legitimately questioned as a individual then I would understand.

    This line argument is brought into more contrast when you realise that Michelle Smith won the award in 1996. She was never proven as a drugs cheat, she was never stripped of her medals.

    All Smith was ever found guilty of was tampering with a sample. A very successful Barrister she is now instead....with a cert in Cert. in Bioethics (Law, Medicine & Ethics of Genetics & Reproductive Technologies) from Harvard.


    Also Conor McGregor, won the award in 2016 not what you would call a 'role model' and certainly morally questionable.


    In light of those two individuals on the winners list (IMO) they would still far over shadow any might's or maybes that some people would like to imply about Bennett. Just because of the history of the sport he competes in.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #183
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,908 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    COVID wrote: »
    Not casting any aspersions on Sam Bennet, his reputation is untarnished thus far.
    But I'm not surprised that the anonymous RTE panel didn't choose him as the 2020 'Sports Person of the Year', even if he was one of the official nominees.
    No amount of whataboutery can gainsay the fact that professional cycling's reputation as a 'clean' sport is still in the toilet.
    It's less than ten years since self-confessed doper supreme Lance Armstrong appeared on the Oprey Winfrey show stating: ''I didn't invent the culture, but I didn't try to stop the culture, and that's my mistake.''

    So now that there's a new generation of professional cyclists, its supporters and enthusiasts would have us - the slightly more sceptical - believe that it's all fine and dandy and that the performance-enhancing drug culture, endemic to pro-cycling and prevalent since the 19th century in cycle racing, has changed, and changed utterly, there's nothing to see here now, move along...the leopard in the room has changed his spots!

    Really?

    Btw, a quick glance through Wiki produced this comical gem: '' The acceptance of drug-taking in the Tour de France was so complete by 1930 that the rule book, distributed by Henri Desgrange, reminded riders that drugs would not be provided by the organisers.''


    A boxer won FFS definitely a sport with skeletons. Find me any sport doesnt have drug problems. One of the best soccer players of all time took growth hormones and even some of our own were at it
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-10079682.html


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    #184
    Redrum123
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Redrum123


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I, like many others here, had no idea who Bennett was before I opened this thread. He’s in a niche “sport”. It’d be like us having a badminton or ping-pong champ. Not enough people care about his sport for him to win the SOTY prize.

    Anyone who thinks cycling is a niche sport needs their head examined. Eight thousand Irish people have cycling Ireland racing licenses alone. Not to mention another 18,000 non competitive sportive riders that ride every weekend. Not to mention the mountain bikers, of which the majority will not be registered. Cycling is one of the biggest participation sports in the country and it is not as big here as it is in Europe. That makes it bigger than Boxing, MMA, swimming, tennis, gymnastics, darts, snooker, etc. Gaa, athletics (which is a bunch of different sports rather than 1) and soccer are about the only things bigger than cycling.

    Just because you are unaware of its popularity doesn't make it niche, it just shows your ignorance.


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    #185
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Bennett robbed at RTE sports awards.

    if it was a fancy bike he was robbed of, I heard a rumour it's for sale on adverts.


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    #186
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Redrum123 wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks cycling is a niche sport needs their head examined. Eight thousand Irish people have cycling Ireland racing licenses alone. Not to mention another 18,000 non competitive sportive riders that ride every weekend. Not to mention the mountain bikers, of which the majority will not be registered. Cycling is one of the biggest participation sports in the country and it is not as big here as it is in Europe. That makes it bigger than Boxing, MMA, swimming, tennis, gymnastics, darts, snooker, etc. Gaa, athletics (which is a bunch of different sports rather than 1) and soccer are about the only things bigger than cycling.

    Just because you are unaware of its popularity doesn't make it niche, it just shows your ignorance.

    Go away out of that. Stop 100 people on Grafton Street and ask them to name a current cyclist and no one would be able. You have MAMILs out at the weekend annoying the fcuk out of motorists and pedestrians, they aren't taking part in any sport. It'd be like me saying walking is the most popular sport because everyone I know like to go for a walk at least once a week.


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    #187
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,546 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Sam Hain wrote: »
    Neither boxing nor cycling are proper sports, they kinda just masquerade as sports.

    "There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games"
    - Ernest Hemingway

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #188
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,964 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Absolutely agree with the op


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    #189
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,546 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Its almost like rte didn't care, they put it on at a strange time slot, didn't have correct stock photos and obliviously hadn't much research done.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #190
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Go away out of that. Stop 100 people on Grafton Street and ask them to name a current cyclist and no one would be able. You have MAMILs out at the weekend annoying the fcuk out of motorists and pedestrians, they aren't taking part in any sport. It'd be like me saying walking is the most popular sport because everyone I know like to go for a walk at least once a week.

    We're getting to the nub of it.

    Whats the difference between a few fat lads on €3k bikes heading up a mountain for some cake, and a few lads kicking a bit of pvc around a field before a pint?

    All sports matter


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    #191
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    MikeOxsgreen wrote: »
    We're getting to the nub of it.

    Whats the difference between a few fat lads on €3k bikes heading up a mountain for some cake, and a few lads kicking a bit of pvc around a field before a pint?

    All sports matter

    Whats the difference between 2 biddies going for a walk? Is walking Ireland's most popular sport?


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    #192
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Whats the difference between 2 biddies going for a walk? Is walking Ireland's most popular sport?

    What was the thing Rob Hefferenan was good at. The auld ones are just slower


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    #193
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    MikeOxsgreen wrote: »
    What was the thing Rob Hefferenan was good at. The auld ones are just slower

    So we agree, walking is Ireland most popular sport.


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    #194
    a_squirrelman
    Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    So we agree, walking is Ireland most popular sport.


    But they didn't say cycling was the most popular sport, they said it was more popular than some other sports. Boxing, MMA, swimming, tennis, gymnastics, darts, snooker specifically.


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    #195
    a_squirrelman
    Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Go away out of that. Stop 100 people on Grafton Street and ask them to name a current cyclist and no one would be able. You have MAMILs out at the weekend annoying the fcuk out of motorists and pedestrians, they aren't taking part in any sport. It'd be like me saying walking is the most popular sport because everyone I know like to go for a walk at least once a week.




    And trying to say these lads are not taking part in a sport is nonsense :pac: those lads cycle some amount of kms, hop up on a bike there and come back to us after 60k and let us know how you get on.


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    #196
    bocaman
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭bocaman


    Yes Sam Bennett should have won it for 2020. But cycling just isn't that popular and Sam's achievements aren't appreciated.


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    #197
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    So we agree, walking is Ireland most popular sport.

    I'd argue you're agreeing with me!
    (If we accept walking is a sport)

    Haven't said anything to the contrary though AFAIR


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    #198
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    a_squirrelman wrote: »
    But they didn't say cycling was the most popular sport, they said it was more popular than some other sports. Boxing, MMA, swimming, tennis, gymnastics, darts, snooker specifically.

    Neither did I. But walking must be, people from toddlers to geriatrics and everyone in between does it. Watch a football or GAA game and you'll see athletes doing it inbetween having the ball. Pretty much anyone that can walk, does, at multiple times a day.


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    #199
    a_squirrelman
    Registered Users Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Neither did I. But walking must be, people from toddlers to geriatrics and everyone in between does it. Watch a football or GAA game and you'll see athletes doing it inbetween having the ball. Pretty much anyone that can walk, does, at multiple times a day.


    Eh....ok. :rolleyes:


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    #200
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If the award is to the person who has excelled the most in their respective fields, Bennet should have won it.

    Katie, excellent in her area, won two fights, with maybe a couple 100 girls boxing to a decent standard globally, out of about 20,000 who practise the sport.

    100s of 1,000s of cyclists globally, 10s of 1,000s professional/aspiring professionals of a decent standard. Millions of sumday morning MAMILS. Sam beat the best of them, several times this year.

    Open to correction on the numbers, point being far more high standard cyclists, then female boxers.


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    #201
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,908 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Montage of Feck wrote: »
    "There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games"
    - Ernest Hemingway


    Hemingway was a complete gobsh1te and a spoofer though


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    #202
    COVID
    Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭COVID


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    A boxer won FFS definitely a sport with skeletons. Find me any sport doesnt have drug problems. One of the best soccer players of all time took growth hormones and even some of our own were at it
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-10079682.html

    Classic whataboutery.


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    #203
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,908 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    COVID wrote: »
    Classic whataboutery.


    I know it was. The point was to highlight the pure whataboutery of your post.


    Cycling is full of drug cheats now because of a guy 20 years ago and a quote from the 1930s. That was your argument


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    #204
    Redrum123
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Redrum123


    COVID wrote: »
    Classic whataboutery.

    I think that was his point.....whoosh.

    As for your point about MAMILS. Yeah, they are the guys on leisure licenses (although most of them are not going to be registered with CI at all). There are 6,000 people who have race licenses who will be doing cycling to a far higher standard including time trials, stage races and day races. I know about 10 guys personally who put in 15+ hours a week training (well they would normally but not in Covid) . There are thousands of guys doing that or close to it in Ireland.

    Wouldn't it just be much more gracious of you to acknowledge that you don't really have a clue what you are talking about?


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    #205
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,140 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    I thought Sam had it in the bag, points classification in the Tour along with stage wins in it and the Veulta versus 2 fights.

    I wouldn’t begrudge Katie the award, has she won it before? If not it’s probably overdue.

    I think Sam achieved more in 2020.
    SAm had a career highlight in 2020. He may never equal that. It would have been fine if he got it.
    Katie has has a career that deserves to be award. She's currently holding all 5 top level titles in her division, and she is the only current fighter, male or female, to do so.


    Redrum123 wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks cycling is a niche sport needs their head examined. Eight thousand Irish people have cycling Ireland racing licenses alone. Not to mention another 18,000 non competitive sportive riders that ride every weekend. Not to mention the mountain bikers, of which the majority will not be registered. ...

    So 8000 who take part in the sport. That's not a big sport.
    And 18,000 train a bit but don't compete.

    There are over 180,000 registered golfers.
    The GAA has 300,000 register. Soccer about the same. Rugby maybe 150,000.
    Those are big sports .


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    #206
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mellor wrote: »
    SAm had a career highlight in 2020. He may never equal that. It would have been fine if he got it.
    Katie has has a career that deserves to be award. She's currently holding all 5 top level titles in her division, and she is the only current fighter, male or female, to do so.


    So 8000 who take part in the sport. That's not a big sport.
    And 18,000 train a bit but don't compete.

    There are over 180,000 registered golfers.
    The GAA has 300,000 register. Soccer about the same. Rugby maybe 150,000.
    Those are big sports .

    They're total players (kids/adults).
    I'd wager total adult rugby participants and cycling aren't too far apart.

    Anyway, your point does not invalidate the claim cycling isn't niche. Its not the most popular.
    Both points are true


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    #207
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,908 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Mellor wrote: »
    So 8000 who take part in the sport. That's not a big sport.
    And 18,000 train a bit but don't compete.

    There are over 180,000 registered golfers.
    The GAA has 300,000 register. Soccer about the same. Rugby maybe 150,000.
    Those are big sports .


    Golf requires almost all players to register due to it being built around a private members system and I would say a lot of those registered dont compete. For the other 3 those are the numbers who actually take part in leagues and would be way ahead of golf in casual playing numbers.


    Not trying to discredit your point though Ive been following cycling for years and its definitely way smaller than golf and the rest above


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    #208
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,140 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    MikeOxsgreen wrote: »
    They're total players (kids/adults).
    Yes players. As in people who compete in the sport.

    Why would we ignore kids?
    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Golf requires almost all players to register due to it being built around a private members system and I would say a lot of those registered dont compete.

    Regardless of whether they compete, they play the sport. The previous post was trying to include recreational cyclists. It’s a bit silly to try exclude them now from other sports.
    Not trying to discredit your point though Ive been following cycling for years and its definitely way smaller than golf and the rest above
    That’s all I’m saying. But 8000+18000 is not a very large number of people. You’d be surprised how many sports have 26000+ people taking part regularly.


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    #209
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,908 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Mellor wrote: »
    Regardless of whether they compete, they play the sport. The previous post was trying to include recreational cyclists. It’s a bit silly to try exclude them now from other sports.


    Not trying to exclude anyone Im just saying that figure would include all golf club members including the ones who rarely play or are involved for social aspects where as the GAA figures for instance are only registered players and dont include the non playing club members. Add to that golf would not have the same level of non member players even if you add pitch & putt and the ranges compared to the numbers playing tag,5 a side and whatever.
    Its hard to get a real comparison across sports that are so different in structure


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    #210
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mellor wrote: »
    Yes players. As in people who compete in the sport.
    Why would we ignore kids?

    Most of the cyclists will be adults.
    Its beside the point though , and I'm not sure are we discussing different points:
    you seem to be arguing cycling is a minority sport. No one is arguing it isn't.

    But it certainly isn't "niche", especially outside of Ireland.


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    #211
    megadodge
    Registered Users Posts: 5,313 ✭✭✭megadodge


    Arduach wrote: »
    The majority of boxing experts gave Persoon the fight. You are in the minority. There were numerous quotes and tweets by current and ex pros to that effect.

    And the Roy Jones analogy is one many made. KT's entourage made Persoon leave her hotel as they wouldn't share. But people aren't comfortable with hearing that.

    I respect boxers like Karl Frampton's opinion. With all due respect you're an anonymous poster.

    Ok then, rather than getting into a back and forth about the merits of using Twitter and sweeping statements to bolster your argument, from one anonymous poster to another, I'll ask you one question - How did you score the fight?


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