No Time to Die Spoilers from post #1449 onward

pixelburp · 14-01-2021 3:29pm

I can sorta sympathise 'cos unlike other major studios, MGM don't have a streaming service (AFAIK) that they can simply move NTtD onto. That locks the film into a cinematic release come what may, there's no other box office potentiality to mine; may also explain the rumoured, slightly barmy figure bandied about that went across the desks of Netflix and Apple+.

DonnaNol · 19-01-2021 9:07am

I think the movie will be lame anyway...

pixelburp · 22-01-2021 3:56am

Officially delayed until 8th October via the Bind Twitter account. Seems like the earliest normality might return in earnest / at the earliest.

Big Gerry · 22-01-2021 4:05am

DonnaNol wrote: »

I think the movie will be lame anyway...

I don't understand why they didn't get rid of craig 5 years ago and bring in a new actor.

Coybig_ · 22-01-2021 5:32am

Everything about this movie screams that it is going to be a disaster.

The return of characters from the last installment which was not good. Specifically the completely uninteresting love interest (who he married?!?) and the worst Blofeld in any Bond movie ever.

A black woman (DIVERSITY) becoming the new 007, making fun of Bond and taking the p*ss out of him. Embarassing writing.

A sterile, mopey Bond who has remained stone faced and depressed for the previous 4 movies, with extraordinarily little character development.

The fact that Danny Boyle dropped out due to unhappiness with the script.

The fact that Pheobe Waller Bridge was brought in to perform rewrites. Any soundbites out of her tell you what everybodies priorities were on this guaranteed mess.

Pheobe - “There’s been a lot of talk about whether or not [the Bond franchise] is relevant now because of who he is and the way he treats women,”

Has there? Do James Bond fans go into movies worried about the way that he treats women? It's hardly a big worry for the audience.

Pheobe - “It has just got to evolve, and the important thing is that the film treats the women properly.”

Right, at least everybody has their priorities in order.

And here's Barbara Broccoli with more worrying sh*te :

Barbara - The Me Too movement has had a huge impact - rightfully, thankfully - on society, and these films should reflect that, as everything we do should

Yes, we need to make sure that the script, above all, respects and promotes the Me-Too movement.

ManOfMystery · 22-01-2021 10:24am

Coybig_ wrote: »

Everything about this movie screams that it is going to be a disaster.

The return of characters from the last installment which was not good. Specifically the completely uninteresting love interest (who he married?!?) and the worst Blofeld in any Bond movie ever.

A black woman (DIVERSITY) becoming the new 007, making fun of Bond and taking the p*ss out of him. Embarassing writing.

A sterile, mopey Bond who has remained stone faced and depressed for the previous 4 movies, with extraordinarily little character development.

The fact that Danny Boyle dropped out due to unhappiness with the script.

The fact that Pheobe Waller Bridge was brought in to perform rewrites. Any soundbites out of her tell you what everybodies priorities were on this guaranteed mess.

Has there? Do James Bond fans go into movies worried about the way that he treats women? It's hardly a big worry for the audience.

Right, at least everybody has their priorities in order.

And here's Barbara Broccoli with more worrying sh*te :

Yes, we need to make sure that the script, above all, respects and promotes the Me-Too movement.

You're not far off with all of this, especially the mopey Bond. I don't for a minute think he should be walking around with a perma-smile but Roger Moore and Sean Connery always came across (as deadly as they were meant to be) as enjoying their job and the *perks* of their job, whilst Craig looks like he's in permanent angst.

I don't know if that's how his character is written to behave, or if it's an idionsyncrasy of Daniel Craig in the role. His other roles have been very different so difficult to compare.

I'd like to see Henry Cavill give it a shot, he had an easy charm in Man from UNCLE (closest thing I can compare to Bond) - mix that with his aggression and physicality in Mission Impossible and you might have a Bond who's deadly but looks like he enjoys his work. If they're allowed to do that in this woke age.

pixelburp · 22-01-2021 10:29am

I don't get the impression Craig is that bothered with the role anymore, not least since Skyfall. I don't blame him; like the series or loath it, Bond isn't exactly much for an actor to bite into, bar a good payday. Skyfall did something interesting with the character, but then Spectre went into cookoo land with its own attempts at "drama". Craig probably should have been replaced a couple movies back, but then in the cold light of day, what has been the hit rate of Bond since Brosnan joined anyway? 2/4 for Craig, 1/4 for Brosnan. YMMY obviously for Invisible cars

I get it's not necessarily a popular opinion, and the box office may not reflect it, but the series kinda needs a rest IMO. Let it die (another day) for a decade, the appetite and energy come back 'cos they just feel so rote these days. Feels like a film series nobody cares to make.

mikhail · 22-01-2021 10:45am

I like Cavill, and he's great in UNCLE which is definitely a good point of comparison, but I'm not keen on them casting an American any more than the idea of casting a woman. They've been thinking about an American in the role forever though, to try to appeal better to the US market. Clint Eastwood, Adam West, and Burt Reynolds were considered for Diamonds Are Forever, and James Brolin for Octopussy, for example. At some point, the character ceases to have anything in common with Bond other than being an MGM-made spy movie, and maybe not even that if they manage to sell the company.

ManOfMystery · 22-01-2021 11:08am

mikhail wrote: »

I like Cavill, and he's great in UNCLE which is definitely a good point of comparison, but I'm not keen on them casting an American any more than the idea of casting a woman. They've been thinking about an American in the role forever though, to try to appeal better to the US market. Clint Eastwood, Adam West, and Burt Reynolds were considered for Diamonds Are Forever, and James Brolin for Octopussy, for example. At some point, the character ceases to have anything in common with Bond other than being an MGM-made spy movie, and maybe not even that if they manage to sell the company.

Cavill isn't American. He's British.

loyatemu · 22-01-2021 11:10am

mikhail wrote: »

I like Cavill, and he's great in UNCLE which is definitely a good point of comparison, but I'm not keen on them casting an American any more than the idea of casting a woman. They've been thinking about an American in the role forever though, to try to appeal better to the US market. Clint Eastwood, Adam West, and Burt Reynolds were considered for Diamonds Are Forever, and James Brolin for Octopussy, for example. At some point, the character ceases to have anything in common with Bond other than being an MGM-made spy movie, and maybe not even that if they manage to sell the company.

serious missed opportunity there :pac:

OU812 · 22-01-2021 12:08pm

They could fix the yawn around 007 quite easily by spinning off a couple of TV shows focusing on other characters.

Q Branch, Moneypenny, and another one or two double 0s to broaden the diversity. Have them all cameo in each other’s shows and explain the change of person who is James Bond through the shows.

The same way Agents of Shield or Mandalorian get to fill in background and re-invigorate the movies.

bigar · 22-01-2021 4:09pm

mikhail wrote: »

Clint Eastwood, Adam West, and Burt Reynolds were considered for Diamonds Are Forever.

loyatemu wrote: »

serious missed opportunity there :pac:

And he turned them down saying that Bond should be played by a Brit.

B.A._Baracus · 24-01-2021 2:14am

Big Gerry wrote: »

I don't understand why they didn't get rid of craig 5 years ago and bring in a new actor.

Personally I don't mind Craig but I reckon as to why he still has the gig is because his Bond movies are some serious earners. Skyfall made a billion alone in the box office. Hollywood really does take the mantra of 'if it ain't broken don't fix it' to heart.

flasher0030 · 24-01-2021 10:57am

Big Gerry wrote: »

I don't understand why they didn't get rid of craig 5 years ago and bring in a new actor.

I cannot understand how there could be negativity around Daniel Craig. After Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan's stint, the bond character had just morphed into a cartoon. Especially Brosnan's Bond. Just a sleazy smart-ass. Casino Royale thankfully changed all that. And something new and exciting was created. Maybe for some, the next 3 films didn't rise to Casino Royale. But for me, they were top notch. If I saw that Did Another Day or The World is Not Enough was on TV, it would cross my mind to watch it. But if any of Craig's movies were on, I would.
Have only watched Spectre the once when it was released. Must give it another look.

Dades · 25-01-2021 12:27pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

I cannot understand how there could be negativity around Daniel Craig...

Have only watched Spectre the once when it was released. Must give it another look.

I rewatched Spectre last year and don't plan to do so again for a long time.

Craig started off (really) great but has only become more joyless as his films progressed. I'm not saying there has to be eyebrow cocking and double-taking pigeons, but many have become weary of his weary face. The spark has gone.

Henry Cavill is my undoubted first draft pick for Bond.

Rodin · 25-01-2021 12:31pm

They don't see the irony of the film in that when the black woman can't handle it, the white man saviour swoops on?

loyatemu · 25-01-2021 1:10pm

Rodin wrote: »

They don't see the irony of the film in that when the black woman can't handle it, the white man saviour swoops on?

in the new film? Have you seen it?

Dades · 25-01-2021 5:09pm

Rodin wrote: »

They don't see the irony of the film in that when the black woman can't handle it, the white man saviour swoops on?

Better to keep casting white people for him to save I guess. Couldn't have a black face in there in case they needed Bond's help and Twitter got wind.

OU812 · 27-01-2021 8:59pm

Looks like they may be considering/have to do reshoots before release date to replace some of the tech/product placement in the movie

pixelburp · 27-01-2021 9:23pm

It says a lot about how fast the "Consumer Society" moves that a mere calendar year is enough to cause ructions in those paying for product placement. Given the year just past I"d not have thought there was that much new and shiny in the world of tech anyway, but there you go.

loyatemu · 28-01-2021 3:12pm

pixelburp wrote: »

It says a lot about how fast the "Consumer Society" moves that a mere calendar year is enough to cause ructions in those paying for product placement. Given the year just past I"d not have thought there was that much new and shiny in the world of tech anyway, but there you go.

it was originally due out in Nov 2019 and shooting started as long ago as April 2019.

MisterAnarchy · 28-01-2021 4:29pm

It could be particular phone models, laptops and cars .
All date pretty quickly.

pixelburp · 28-01-2021 6:24pm

loyatemu wrote: »

it was originally due out in Nov 2019 and shooting started as long ago as April 2019.

Fair point. I guess it's just surreal how wedded to product placement the series has become, that it's the only blockbuster I've read where reshoots have been because the gadget fashions are too outdated.

Not that product placement is ever subtle, but I hope the replacements aren't too egregious; a big green-screen Nokia floating in Bond's hand or something

CastorTroy · 28-01-2021 7:03pm

Maybe they had to have him make a TikTok video.

Makes me think of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KDeKut2uA

WoollyRedHat · 28-01-2021 11:16pm

Has this be on RTE yet?

peteeeed · 24-02-2021 6:22pm

release date moved to sept 30th

Atlantic Dawn · 07-03-2021 3:13am

Die Another Day was on tonight, it's the worst Bond movie ever made, complete and utter trash, I recall nearly walking out of the cinema after seeing it. It's the line where the franchise descended in to utter and complete sheite, the tech on the franchise was always a tad farfetched but this film was clearly made by idiots with no experience whatsoever of where the line should be drawn between potentially possible and impossible tech, an invisible car, a cgi windsurfing scene, we then had Daniel Craig up next with complete non tech Bond trying to sell it to a post Jason Bourne woke crowd, utter trash, we are now gradually returning to where Bond should be, hopefully No Time To Die doesn't disappoint.

MrStuffins · 07-03-2021 3:17am

I remember seeing this in the cinema and seeing a scene of Bond skiing downhill with CGI rivaling the Super Nintendo

FunLover18 · 07-03-2021 3:46am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Die Another Day was on tonight, it's the worst Bond movie ever made, complete and utter trash, I recall nearly walking out of the cinema after seeing it. It's the line where the franchise descended in to utter and complete sheite, the tech on the franchise was always a tad farfetched but this film was clearly made by idiots with no experience whatsoever of where the line should be drawn between potentially possible and impossible tech, an invisible car, a cgi windsurfing scene, we then had Daniel Craig up next with complete non tech Bond trying to sell it to a post Jason Bourne woke crowd, utter trash, we are now gradually returning to where Bond should be, hopefully No Time To Die doesn't disappoint.

Usually it's easy to tell what someone is referring to when they complain about "wokeness" in a film but I'm genuinely at a loss as what you perceived as "woke" in Casino Royale, generally regarded as one of the best Bond films that took the character back to basics.

Atlantic Dawn · 07-03-2021 3:51am

FunLover18 wrote: »

Usually it's easy to tell what someone is referring to when they complain about "wokeness" in a film but I'm genuinely at a loss as what you perceived as "woke" in Casino Royale, generally regarded as one of the best Bond films that took the character back to basics.

Casino Royale would bring it back to pre Goldfinger for non tech, it was off the wall as script, completely chasing the Bourne Identity fanbase.

flasher0030 · 07-03-2021 10:12am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Casino Royale would bring it back to pre Goldfinger for non tech, it was off the wall as script, completely chasing the Bourne Identity fanbase.

Casino Royale saved the Bond merchandise.
Great film. Watched it again recently.

pixelburp · 07-03-2021 10:46am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Casino Royale would bring it back to pre Goldfinger for non tech, it was off the wall as script, completely chasing the Bourne Identity fanbase.

Still doesn't explain what was "woke" about Casino Royale - or Bourne for that matter. The latter practically predates the whole wokeness paranoia being as it was a 2002 film

OU812 · 07-03-2021 11:02am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Die Another Day was on tonight, it's the worst Bond movie ever made, complete and utter trash, I recall nearly walking out of the cinema after seeing it. It's the line where the franchise descended in to utter and complete sheite, the tech on the franchise was always a tad farfetched but this film was clearly made by idiots with no experience whatsoever of where the line should be drawn between potentially possible and impossible tech, an invisible car, a cgi windsurfing scene, we then had Daniel Craig up next with complete non tech Bond trying to sell it to a post Jason Bourne woke crowd, utter trash, we are now gradually returning to where Bond should be, hopefully No Time To Die doesn't disappoint.

An invisible car existed just 10 years later in 2012.

https://www.theverge.com/2012/3/5/2845878/mercedes-f-cell-invisible-car-video

The tech isn’t that far fetched.

mikhail · 07-03-2021 1:52pm

Vesper is a great Bond girl, an actual character with great lines and agency instead of just a pin-up who provides reaction shots during the action scenes until she can **** him in a boat. I don't really see how anyone could object to her as a 'woke' decision. Halle Berry's character in Die Another Day is actual lazy pseudofeminist writing, as is Pam Bouvier in Licence to Kill for example, but Vesper and her role in Casino Royale is a bloody treasure and Bond as a franchise is far the better for that movie. And if he's not referring to Vesper, his grasp on the meaning of woke is even more tenuous than I suspected.

johnny_ultimate · 07-03-2021 2:07pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

Casino Royale saved the Bond merchandise.

This is either an incredibly apt typo or an entirely accurate, scathing critique :pac:

MisterAnarchy · 07-03-2021 2:15pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Still doesn't explain what was "woke" about Casino Royale - or Bourne for that matter. The latter practically predates the whole wokeness paranoia being as it was a 2002 film

I certainly wouldnt regard either Casino Royale or the Bourne Trilogy as being in any way woke.

I caught a bit Die Another Day last night, the first half of the film was decent enough, but the second half was poor.
The sword fighting scene was utterly ludicrous and from there on it deteriorates.

flasher0030 · 07-03-2021 3:03pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

This is either an incredibly apt typo or an entirely accurate, scathing critique :pac:

:D:D

Sorry. I meant franchise.

Dades · 08-03-2021 2:36pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Casino Royale would bring it back to pre Goldfinger for non tech, it was off the wall as script, completely chasing the Bourne Identity fanbase.

They definitely took cues from Bourne when they rebooted. But Casino Royale is brilliant so it doesn't matter. The later Craig movies have been hit and miss to say the least.

Also curious as to the wokeness!

loyatemu · 08-03-2021 2:58pm

The thing about DAD, is the plot is fine as Bond films go, it's got a decent villain, a good opening sequence, and I quite like the finale on the disintegrating plane (preposterous as it is). But all anyone remembers is the invisible car, and that terrible kite-surfing scene. And Madonna, both her crappy acting and her crappy theme song. John Cleese was poor choice for Q as well.

mikhail · 08-03-2021 3:38pm

loyatemu wrote: »

John Cleese was poor choice for Q as well.

R.

Yes, he was. The new guy is fine, but I miss Llewellyn's avuncular presence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIiWqow7zzk

ManOfMystery · 08-03-2021 3:38pm

loyatemu wrote: »

The thing about DAD, is the plot is fine as Bond films go, it's got a decent villain, a good opening sequence, and I quite like the finale on the disintegrating plane (preposterous as it is). But all anyone remembers is the invisible car, and that terrible kite-surfing scene. And Madonna, both her crappy acting and her crappy theme song. John Cleese was poor choice for Q as well.

It had its good moments, but the they were sadly outweighed by the cheese.

Bond films have always treaded a very thin line in terms of the balance between the serious (world threatened, multiple deaths, the toll his work takes on him, etc) and the ridiculous (the gadgets, some of the stunts, the OTT villains).

And occasionally they have gone a little too far in one direction (Roger Moore's films definitely had a more humorous angle) or the other (Casino Royale - as fantastic as it was - was also criticised by some purists for backing away too much from the gadgets and occasional humour of Bond films).

Brosnan's films came out at a time when they were competing with the likes of the Matrix, Mission Impossible, Ronin, etc. And to compensate, they went totally OTT with the gadgets, the cheesy one-liners, and the unbelievable stunt pieces.

It's a shame - I felt Brosnan was an absolutely brilliant choice for Bond as he had the look, the charm/suavity, and the physicality. I'd loved to have seen him in a more gritty take on the films like Casino Royale. I think that's why Henry Cavill ticks a lot of 007 boxes, in a way he has a lot of the attributes Brosnan had.

pixelburp · 08-03-2021 3:45pm

loyatemu wrote: »

The thing about DAD, is the plot is fine as Bond films go, it's got a decent villain, a good opening sequence, and I quite like the finale on the disintegrating plane (preposterous as it is). But all anyone remembers is the invisible car, and that terrible kite-surfing scene. And Madonna, both her crappy acting and her crappy theme song. John Cleese was poor choice for Q as well.

Eh; Die Another Day was still a poor movie all the same. Though I think Die Another Day and Skyfall are interesting to watch because both came out as "Anniversary" features, with wildly differing approaches to each landmark. One was a trainwreck, the other probably the franchise's most overtly "prestige" picture.

Die Another Day almost drowned under the excess of nods and lazy winks towards the franchise history, the constant Fan Service probably made writing a coherent script difficult to begin with. While Skyfall kept the nods to a minimum, instead pitching itself as an arguable Final Story, creating a satisfying thematic arc for Bond, M and the whole idea of "For Queen and Country". It never swallowed up the superficial thrills if that was what the viewer was here for, mind.

loyatemu · 08-03-2021 4:02pm

mikhail wrote: »

R.

that was a joke from the previous film where he was Llewllyns's assistant, he was Q in DAD.

MrStuffins · 08-03-2021 4:06pm

I still want to know where the "wokeness" was in Casino Royale!

loyatemu · 08-03-2021 4:06pm

ManOfMystery wrote: »

It's a shame - I felt Brosnan was an absolutely brilliant choice for Bond as he had the look, the charm/suavity, and the physicality. I'd loved to have seen him in a more gritty take on the films like Casino Royale. I think that's why Henry Cavill ticks a lot of 007 boxes, in a way he has a lot of the attributes Brosnan had.

I watched The World is Not Enough over the weekend and it's still pretty good, 2nd best of Brosnan's run, and a reasonably balance between the serious and the silly (though it also features an annoying turn by Cleese).

Dades · 08-03-2021 4:12pm

ManOfMystery wrote: »

It's a shame - I felt Brosnan was an absolutely brilliant choice for Bond as he had the look, the charm/suavity, and the physicality. I'd loved to have seen him in a more gritty take on the films like Casino Royale. I think that's why Henry Cavill ticks a lot of 007 boxes, in a way he has a lot of the attributes Brosnan had.

Pierce had his moment. It started really well but diminished every movie. Seems to be a common theme with each Bond.

We've had gritty now - Spectre was grim.
If anything I'd prefer Henry Cavill channel his Man From UNCLE and bring back the charm.

On topic.... I don't expect NTTD to be laugh-a-minute either.

loyatemu wrote: »

I watched The World is Not Enough over the weekend and it's still pretty good, 2nd best of Brosnan's run, and a reasonably balance between the serious and the silly (though it also features an annoying turn by Cleese).

Biggest problem with that is Denise Richards is less believable as a nuclear scientist than an invisible car. And Bond's hairdresser BMW.

FunLover18 · 08-03-2021 4:19pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

I still want to know where the "wokeness" was in Casino Royale!

Or in the Bourne movies.

CastorTroy · 08-03-2021 11:08pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

I still want to know where the "wokeness" was in Casino Royale!

Maybe the scene of Bond in the chair is considered symbolism for feminism?

mikhail · 09-03-2021 10:36am

CastorTroy wrote: »

Maybe the scene of Bond in the chair is considered symbolism for feminism?

Maybe Le Chiffre frequently bleeding without injury is a symbol of menstruation?

pixelburp · 09-03-2021 10:44am

At this stage, "woke" doesn't even mean anything anymore, just "things wot I don't like", usually revolving a degree of taste for women in stories with personal agency of their own.

I don't watch Bond expecting deep and meaningful personal arcs, just before folks go "it's just Bond blah blah", but the Craig films at least tried to recognise its female characters didn't need to only idiot blondes acting as trophies with tits. Well, with the glaring exception of Skyfall and Bond's sneak attack in the shower on a sexual abuse victim. Yeesh.

No Time to Die **Spoilers from post #1449 onward**

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No Time to Die Spoilers from post #1449 onward