Club head speed

ClutchIt · 26-01-2021 11:37am

redzerdrog wrote: »

I briefly got to use one before lockdown but wanted to look into the numbers more but forgot.

Iv attached the images I think. My initial thoughts was that the CHS should have given better carry numbers but I was putting it down to strike. I haven't actually looked into how the device works though

Also last time I used a trackman was 4 or 5 years ago and my chs was 106mph

Yes, this is my concern as well. You had swing 111 and 150 ball speed, those are big numbers, you'd expect bigger carry. I'm confident in the units chs and ball speed readings so confused at carry numbers.

DuckSlice · 26-01-2021 12:01pm

Anything that doesn't track the ball flight using radar or cameras, I wouldn't be looking too much into the distance on them.
And you need to be looking at stirke also.

If you are swinging 111 and only getting 150 then you need to know if that's down to strike or not. If you hit it bang out of the sweet spot and its only 150 id say the machine is off as thats a smash factor of 1.35. a good strike should be 1.4+

redzerdrog · 26-01-2021 1:05pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Also, if the distances are accurate then I guess the clubhead speed doesnt really matter?

Distance will be an estimation based off a number of elements including CHS

redzerdrog · 26-01-2021 1:11pm

ClutchIt wrote: »

Yes, this is my concern as well. You had swing 111 and 150 ball speed, those are big numbers, you'd expect bigger carry. I'm confident in the units chs and ball speed readings so confused at carry numbers.

I would say it was down to strike more than anything. Also if you are hitting into a net you are not getting the feedback from seeing the ball flight so harder to know what was a good one.

You could draw a dot on the back of the ball to at least get feedback on strike location and see how that correlates to the numbers

kod12 · 26-01-2021 1:37pm

Has anyone found a cheaper bundle or alternative to the superspeed sticks and the PRGR radar. Bundle now priced at €416

fungie · 26-01-2021 2:22pm

kod12 wrote: »

Has anyone found a cheaper bundle or alternative to the superspeed sticks and the PRGR radar. Bundle now priced at €416

Best avoid superspeed at the moment. I bought it a month ago nearly (Jan 1 or 2). It was meant to be delivered from Ireland but it wasn't and been stuck in brexit limbo ever since. They also keep pushing back their irish warehouse date. It was meant to be from January, last week it was meant to be yesterday, now it Feb 1st. They keep pushing it back, I've no faith they will sort it anytime soon. I'm trying to get a refund.

kod12 · 26-01-2021 2:35pm

fungie wrote: »

Best avoid superspeed at the moment. I bought it a month ago nearly (Jan 1 or 2). It was meant to be delivered from Ireland but it wasn't and been stuck in brexit limbo ever since. They also keep pushing back their irish warehouse date. It was meant to be from January, last week it was meant to be yesterday, now it Feb 1st. They keep pushing it back, I've no faith they will sort it anytime soon. I'm trying to get a refund.

Thanks for that. I have a similar situation with another supplier very annoying hope they sort the refund

Russman · 26-01-2021 2:43pm

kod12 wrote: »

Has anyone found a cheaper bundle or alternative to the superspeed sticks and the PRGR radar. Bundle now priced at €416

There's another crowd with something similar, think they're called Swingspeed golf. Only real difference is the weights are interchangeable and you've only one "club" rather than the 3 clubs with Superspeed. Good bit cheaper than Superspeed too.

I think you can get one or other of Swingspeed or Superspeed from the likes of McGuirks, Halpenny etc.

DuckSlice · 26-01-2021 3:04pm

Russman wrote: »

There's another crowd with something similar, think they're called Swingspeed golf. Only real difference is the weights are interchangeable and you've only one "club" rather than the 3 clubs with Superspeed. Good bit cheaper than Superspeed too.

I think you can get one or other of Swingspeed or Superspeed from the likes of McGuirks, Halpenny etc.

McGuirks have the Swing speed ones, they used to have the superspeed but i didn't see them their just now.

MarcusP12 · 26-01-2021 4:42pm

On the launch monitor stuff, maybe it might interest some people and i know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but i came across a short video by Rick Shiels where he tests a free launch monitor app against the GCQuand that he uses himself....was interesting enough.....i think the free aspect of the app is quite basic in terms of the feedback and that you have to pay to get all the useful stuff like carry distance. Cant remember what the free part gives you, maybe swing speed and launch angle.....if i remember it, it did compare reasonably with the GCquad in term of accuracy......might be worth some people checking out before committing to a more expensive option?

Ivefoundgod · 26-01-2021 6:15pm

I've tried that app, its absolutely useless to be honest. You don't get swing speed or anything useful unless you pay for it and it misses almost every shot I took with it once I went past 7 iron. I think in absolutely optimal conditions, bright day, struck off grass not a mat and taking time to recalibrate it regularly it might be somewhat useful but I used it around November during daylight when ranges were allowed open and found it all over the place. As I said it was ok with PW-7i but still regularly missed shots. For anything beyond that it was hopeless. Told me my club speed was 122mph on a driver, said the carry was 285 while I watched with my own eyes as the ball hooked hard and landed at most 230

It was that bad most of the time, I don't think it ever captured accurate data from a shot beyond 7i. Even the 7i data was patchy at best, random spikes in club head speed and carry, I just wouldn't trust it at all.

Not worth the price IMO and I'll probably get a PRGR at some stage instead.

BoardsMember · 27-01-2021 4:21pm

Have any on here managed to significantly shift their swing speed?

Maybe I am being naive, but I would have thought most of us (recreational) amateur golfers have a natural speed/tempo to our swing. Is that not tight? Have people the ability, whether improving flexibility/biomechanics/strength to shift this in any significant way?

Or maybe it is down to changing equipment, getting a more suitable shaft that maximises how you swing the club.

Is the secret for maximising length not more in quality of contact? I'm not convinced I could, or should, look at swing speed improvements. I have my swing, I know when I nail the contact that the distance is good. Waywardness is much more a killer for me in shooting good scores. Realistically, how much extra distance do people think the can get by swinging faster, and at what cost?

Ivefoundgod · 27-01-2021 4:34pm

Difficult question to answer really as I would imagine it all depends on the person but in general I would say that most players can increase their swing speed through training. How you go about it might differ, for example you could go the Bryson route and hit the gym hard, combine that with some swing speed training and I think you are bound to see some improvements however not many people would have the time or the equipment required to do that. For most people I think a small increase in club head speed is achievable by utilising something like those swing speed trainers or changing how they swing the club. If you look at most modern players, particularly with driver they use their feet quite significantly, to the point of instability at times. I've rarely seen an amateur player do that and maintain any kind of accuracy or consistency but taking it a step back from that point could see gains. I intend on getting the swing speed sticks in the next few weeks, as much out of boredom as any great expectation of me being able to stripe the ball 300 yards.

Edit: to your final point about contact, I think with modern equipment if you are capable of hitting the driver relatively consistently the ability to hit the sweet spot is less important. TXG golf on YouTube are worth a watch, granted Matty is a very talented player but you can see just how good the modern clubs are at minimising the loss of distance and dispersion of mi****s.

Rich Shiels posted a video the other day which should be interesting to watch how he progresses. Not everyones cup of tea I know but it should be interesting.

ShivasIrons · 27-01-2021 5:13pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

Have any on here managed to significantly shift their swing speed?

Maybe I am being naive, but I would have thought most of us (recreational) amateur golfers have a natural speed/tempo to our swing. Is that not tight? Have people the ability, whether improving flexibility/biomechanics/strength to shift this in any significant way?

Or maybe it is down to changing equipment, getting a more suitable shaft that maximises how you swing the club.

Is the secret for maximising length not more in quality of contact? I'm not convinced I could, or should, look at swing speed improvements. I have my swing, I know when I nail the contact that the distance is good. Waywardness is much more a killer for me in shooting good scores. Realistically, how much extra distance do people think the can get by swinging faster, and at what cost?

There's multiple ways of increasing distance

Yes, increasing club head speed is one. Adding strength is another, more strength equals more power. Improving the sequence of the swing, power gets delivered more efficiently leading to more distance.

Yes, Improving contact is another, hitting the ball more in the middle of the face, and you're right this one is the best option.

Other ways, include equipment, as you've mentioned, going from equipment that doesn't suit to equipment that does, is the easiest way to increase distance. It requires no work from the golfer.
Changing attack angle can increase distance, going from downward to upward can lead to more distance.
Spin loft, approximately the difference between attack angle and dynamic loft of the club, changing this can also lead to more distance.

As with all of golf, different solutions suit different golfers better.

As for your last point of whether you would be able to increase speed, it's very very unlikely that you couldn't. Golfers' speeds are limited by what they did growing up, if you didn't develop speed in the different speed windows of opportunity you won't have jet fuel or rocket fuel in your system but that doesn't mean you can make a petrol or diesel engine go faster, you can, they just won't be as fast as rocket or a jet.

Adding 5-10 mph to anyone is doable and also desirable for nearly all golfers.

chalky_ie · 27-01-2021 6:09pm

The majority of golfers that haven't played the game from a young age(and some that have) will swing the club in an inefficient manner. If you took lessons with a focus on building speed with your legs etc, as mentioned above, you would swing the club faster, without feeling like you're breaking your natural tempo/slashing at the ball. I would say that nearly everyone has not maxed out their current physical ability when it comes to how much clubhead speed they could potentially generate.

Russman · 27-01-2021 6:34pm

Not directly related to speed, but I just saw the Shot Scope have added Strokes Gained to their app, very interesting to say the least !:eek::D

monkeybutter · 27-01-2021 7:32pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

There's multiple ways of increasing distance

Yes, increasing club head speed is one. Adding strength is another, more strength equals more power. Improving the sequence of the swing, power gets delivered more efficiently leading to more distance.

Yes, Improving contact is another, hitting the ball more in the middle of the face, and you're right this one is the best option.

Other ways, include equipment, as you've mentioned, going from equipment that doesn't suit to equipment that does, is the easiest way to increase distance. It requires no work from the golfer.
Changing attack angle can increase distance, going from downward to upward can lead to more distance.
Spin loft, approximately the difference between attack angle and dynamic loft of the club, changing this can also lead to more distance.

As with all of golf, different solutions suit different golfers better.

As for your last point of whether you would be able to increase speed, it's very very unlikely that you couldn't. Golfers' speeds are limited by what they did growing up, if you didn't develop speed in the different speed windows of opportunity you won't have jet fuel or rocket fuel in your system but that doesn't mean you can make a petrol or diesel engine go faster, you can, they just won't be as fast as rocket or a jet.

Adding 5-10 mph to anyone is doable and also desirable for nearly all golfers.

Power is not relevant, only swing speed

You can add all the strength you want if it doesn't increase club head speed then you won't increase distance

ShivasIrons · 27-01-2021 7:46pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

Power is not relevant, only swing speed

You can add all the strength you want if it doesn't increase club head speed then you won't increase distance

You're not correct. Power is strength and speed combined, increase either and power increases, more power is more distance.

Who do you think can have more speed/power, the stronger golfer or the weaker golfer?

monkeybutter · 27-01-2021 9:30pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

You're not correct. Power is strength and speed combined, increase either and power increases, more power is more distance.

Who do you think can have more speed/power, the stronger golfer or the weaker golfer?

So you think you can get more distance without increasing clubhead speed

So two different people with the same club head speed can get different distances

Is that what you think

Cause you separated the two

Power and speed

ShivasIrons · 27-01-2021 11:16pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

So you think you can get more distance without increasing clubhead speed

So two different people with the same club head speed can get different distances

Is that what you think

Cause you separated the two

Power and speed

The mistake I made was not differentiating between club head speed and speed of the body, power is strength and speed combined, that is speed of the body, increase power you increase clubhead speed.

Power can be higher with increased speed of the body which is the what the systems such as superspeed do. Power can also be increased by getting stronger.

You can have golfers who move their body quickly but lack strength, think younger and some female golfers, and don’t have the same club head speed as stronger golfers who move their body a little slower.

redzerdrog · 27-01-2021 11:45pm

Russman wrote: »

Not directly related to speed, but I just saw the Shot Scope have added Strokes Gained to their app, very interesting to say the least !:eek::D

Very good! I love my Garmin Approach S62 but the Garmin golf app does seem to be getting left behind by the others.

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 10:59am

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The mistake I made was not differentiating between club head speed and speed of the body, power is strength and speed combined, that is speed of the body, increase power you increase clubhead speed.

Power can be higher with increased speed of the body which is the what the systems such as superspeed do. Power can also be increased by getting stronger.

You can have golfers who move their body quickly but lack strength, think younger and some female golfers, and don’t have the same club head speed as stronger golfers who move their body a little slower.

you aren't making a whole pile of sense at this stage

strength can allow you to move faster, that is all, if you don't the club won't

The power is in the club head

as I said, club head speed is king

DuckSlice · 28-01-2021 11:22am

redzerdrog wrote: »

Very good! I love my Garmin Approach S62 but the Garmin golf app does seem to be getting left behind by the others.

Hopefully they will update the app soon. There is strokes gained already in the app though I think isn't there?

Russman · 28-01-2021 11:49am

Interesting graph here

https://puredrivegolf.com/blog/handicap-vs-average-club-head-speed

Obviously plenty of caveats re cause and correlation but interesting all the same

Jimbee · 28-01-2021 11:54am

This obsession with swing swing speed is dominating you game. I can add 10mph to all your swings if you can measure your ss now and again on a hot summers day. Pga tour follows the sun they play in heat all the time.
We don't.! The weather affects your body movement speed and the ball speed off the face not to mention how the ball flies through the air with our humid/damp climate.
Your comparing yourselves with Dechambeau that's not realistic for anyone in this country.
But we are in lockdown so i guess we do need something to fill the void left but golf course closures, just don't let ruin you swing and contact with ball.

FixdePitchmark · 28-01-2021 12:02pm

Jimbee wrote: »

This obsession with swing swing speed is dominating you game. I can add 10mph to all your swings if you can measure your ss now and again on a hot summers day. Pga tour follows the sun they play in heat all the time.
We don't.! The weather affects your body movement speed and the ball speed off the face not to mention how the ball flies through the air with our humid/damp climate.
Your comparing yourselves with Dechambeau that's not realistic for anyone in this country.
But we are in lockdown so i guess we do need something to fill the void left but golf course closures, just don't let ruin you swing and contact with ball.

I don't think anyone is that delusional.

The graph just posted above is about all handicaps.

The advantage of swing speed plays out in any weather. In fact you could make an argument it is more important in irish conditions. Ground and air.

I see lads swinging a golf club and there is little or no effort. They are not going to get far with it. Some even walk slow.

The point is you can play golf . Float around and play off a mid to high handicap . But if you want to get lower . You need to think about swing speed . Getting the ball out there and hitting greens in regulation. Even walking faster would help some.

redzerdrog · 28-01-2021 12:50pm

etxp wrote: »

Hopefully they will update the app soon. There is strokes gained already in the app though I think isn't there?

Yeh there is a version of it alright but just not very clear in how they produce and show the data

benny79 · 28-01-2021 1:56pm

Yes but if you look at The Open. The big hitters are only driving it just over 300 yds the average drops way down compared to the PGA tour. As far as I remember anyway could be wrong. Why because of the climate obviously. Just like when you play in Spain or Portugal! The ball goes a mile plus the only time I ever get 300 yd drives Sadly

ShivasIrons · 28-01-2021 2:25pm

benny79 wrote: »

Yes but if you look at The Open. The big hitters are only driving it just over 300 yds the average drops way down compared to the PGA tour. As far as I remember anyway could be wrong. Why because of the climate obviously. Just like when you play in Spain or Portugal! The ball goes a mile plus the only time I ever get 300 yd drives Sadly

That's not related to swing speed, that's related to temperature and humidity, the ball flies differently at different temperatures, humidity and altitudes.

ShivasIrons · 28-01-2021 2:32pm

monkeybutter wrote: »

you aren't making a whole pile of sense at this stage

strength can allow you to move faster, that is all, if you don't the club won't

The power is in the club head

as I said, club head speed is king

I mightn't be explaining power properly but you said strength is not a factor in club head speed. This is not true. You are not explaining where club head speed comes from. You even have said that power is in the club head?

The club head is an inanimate object, there is no power in it. The power comes from the golfer and it comes from strength and speed, that is the speed the body moves. The golfer applies the power to the club.

Can you explain where club head speed comes from?

Club head speed

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