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Club head speed

  • 20-01-2021 4:53pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ ClutchIt


    Hi, I have ordered a simple mini launch monitor today for use with my golf net.

    If I wanted to play off a handicap of about 10, what distance should I be hitting the 5 iron?

    And then what 5 iron club head speed would be good to achieve this?

    Thanks all.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    ClutchIt wrote: »
    Hi, I have ordered a simple mini launch monitor today for use with my golf net.

    If I wanted to play off a handicap of about 10, what distance should I be hitting the 5 iron?

    And then what 5 iron club head speed would be good to achieve this?

    Thanks all.


    There is a correlation between how far you can hit the ball and how good your scores are. Golfers who swing faster have the ability to become good players.


    However, there are many ways to play golf so you can't really say that hitting a 5 iron 160, 170, 180, 190 yards means you will play off a certain handicap.


    But, in general, learn to swing as fast as you can first and then learn to control it after.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭ gypsy79


    I know a guy who plays off 10 who only drives the ball 180 yards so you definitely cannot say such a thing

    Short game is key!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,350 ✭✭✭✭ FixdePitchmark


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    I know a guy who plays off 10 who only drives the ball 180 yards so you definitely cannot say such a thing

    Short game is key!!

    In general you are right. But if you hit the ball far and hit lots of greens - you can reduce the impact of a poor short game. I'm in that boat myself. You can get to much / much lower handicap than 10.

    The guy you are talking about off 10 will never be off 5 or less.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    In general you are right. But if you hit the ball far and hit lots of greens - you can reduce the impact of a poor short game. I'm in that boat myself. You can get to much / much lower handicap than 10.

    The guy you are talking about off 10 will never be off 5 or less.

    This was literally me when i was a junior and got down to 10.....used to be decent tee to green and hit a lot in regulation so as you say, didn't need to rely on a decent short game to maintain that standard....if i missed a green, i'd likely bogey but not much worse so you can see how the absence of a short game can translate into a half decent handicap.....fast forward to now and a long absence from regular golf and its come back to haunt me....no feel or touch around the green so regularly duff or thin chips meaning a missed green can just as easily turn into a 6 instead of the 5 it used to be.....a lot of the guys who were of similar standard as me before but with significantly inferior long games started out with pitch and putt.......i was a hurler so swing speed and long game came naturally....


  • Registered Users Posts: 517 benji79


    Doesn’t matter completely about distance. If you only drive it 200 yards but straight every time you’ll score better than someone who hits it 280 but wild a few times per round and possibly OB.

    I’d say anyone that can hit a 5 iron somewhere between 150-200 can be a decent single figure handicap provided they have an acceptable chipping & putting game


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,350 ✭✭✭✭ FixdePitchmark


    benji79 wrote: »
    Doesn’t matter completely about distance. If you only drive it 200 yards but straight every time you’ll score better than someone who hits it 280 but wild a few times per round and possibly OB.

    I’d say anyone that can hit a 5 iron somewhere between 150-200 can be a decent single figure handicap provided they have an acceptable chipping & putting game

    Massive a range there. Someone hitting a 5 iron 200 yards - is a big difference to someone hitting one 150 yards.

    Your right - it doesn't matter completely. But it you are short and straight - you can be a great golfer - but it will be a struggle to get low low.

    Lads that get low low - can be long and straight.

    Of course short game is important. But distance and greens in regulation , is very underestimated by amateur golfers. Very clichéd about drive for show. Give me a lad on green in regulation ever day over a lad who is a master with a 60 degree lob wedge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭ Snotty



    The guy you are talking about off 10 will never be off 5 or less.

    My driver swing speed is 84mph and my world handicap is 6.0, so I'm 5 and less at plenty of courses. If I every practiced my short game I could be a good golfer:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    Snotty wrote: »
    My driver swing speed is 84mph and my world handicap is 6.0, so I'm 5 and less at plenty of courses. If I every practiced my short game I could be a good golfer:)

    How far do you hit your driver? You must be getting up and down a lot on par 4’s?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭ redzerdrog


    280 in the rough is gona hammer 200 on the fairway the majority of the time unless there is some serious deficits elsewhere I the first persons game


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭ gypsy79


    redzerdrog wrote: »
    280 in the rough is gona hammer 200 on the fairway the majority of the time unless there is some serious deficits elsewhere I the first persons game

    No if they are loosing 2 or 3 balls a round which they invariably will


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭ redzerdrog


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    No if they are loosing 2 or 3 balls a round which they invariably will

    280 in rough still wins the majority of the time


  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ ClutchIt


    Ok guys thanks for the input. I'm playing about 6 years so fairly experienced. I used the handicap of 10 just to give you an idea of what I'm looking for. Well aware of short game importance.
    I kind of know I need to be hitting 5i about 170 or 180.
    Anyone know what swing speed that would be? Cheers again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭ redzerdrog


    ClutchIt wrote: »
    Ok guys thanks for the input. I'm playing about 6 years so fairly experienced. I used the handicap of 10 just to give you an idea of what I'm looking for. Well aware of short game importance.
    I kind of know I need to be hitting 5i about 170 or 180.
    Anyone know what swing speed that would be? Cheers again.

    I think you are looking at it slightly wrong as a 5 iron travelling 170 or 180 a lot will depend on the loft of your 5 iron. 5 iron in one mans could be lifted the same as anything from 7 iron to 3 iron in another set.

    When looking at club head speed you are better off gauging from your driver club head spead


  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ ClutchIt


    redzerdrog wrote: »
    I think you are looking at it slightly wrong as a 5 iron travelling 170 or 180 a lot will depend on the loft of your 5 iron. 5 iron in one mans could be lifted the same as anything from 7 iron to 3 iron in another set.

    When looking at club head speed you are better off gauging from your driver club head spead


    Ok thank you. That makes some sense, but thats why i'm asking for club head speed, regardless of loft. Unfortunately driver is the one club I can't use on my net. Nowhere to tee the ball up. Cheers though.
    I found a chart online, that seems to have the club head speeds to aim for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,841 ✭✭✭ fred funk }{


    Dont get hung up on how far you're hitting a certain club. Just try get as much speed into your swing as you can, the accuracy will follow with practice.

    Also, as mentioned, the loft varies a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer. One could be 4 degrees different from another. Its a blight on the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭ redzerdrog


    ClutchIt wrote: »
    Ok thank you. That makes some sense, but thats why i'm asking for club head speed, regardless of loft. Unfortunately driver is the one club I can't use on my net. Nowhere to tee the ball up. Cheers though.
    I found a chart online, that seems to have the club head speeds to aim for.

    If you are trying to compare swing speed you are better off judging off your 7 iron as there will be more data available for comparison purposes. Pga tour average 7 iron swing speed is 90mph


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭ willabur


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    No if they are loosing 2 or 3 balls a round which they invariably will

    knowing your miss is key, someone who hits 280 and uses course management i.e. they aim at the fat part of the fairway or the look at the shape of the green / pin position from the tee is going to score alot better than someone who just trashes it 280 in a general direction down the fairway


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    i think the argument for distance over accuracy for an amature is a tricky one....I'm not convinced that distance at the expense of accuracy is whats best for a mid handicapper like me at least....i think when we look at the pros bombing it and not caring whether they end up in the rough or fairway can maybe skew our judgement a bit on this. At the end of the day pros have ball spotters to find their ball and they have the swing speed to gauge it out of most lies and still expect to hit the green....amatures certainly don't have ball spotters to help locate a wayward drive and most won't have the swing speed to hack it out and hit a green from anything more than semi rough i'd say....so the risk of clocking up a big score is higher with wayward driving i think.....i used to be awful with the driver and eventually went down to a punched 3 iron to keep myself in the hole and i found i scored much better with that approach...have since worked on my driving and invested in modern driver so i do play it when i can but i find that most holes i bomb out of are because of a bad miss with the driver....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    Dont get hung up on how far you're hitting a certain club. Just try get as much speed into your swing as you can, the accuracy will follow with practice.

    Also, as mentioned, the loft varies a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer. One could be 4 degrees different from another. Its a blight on the game.

    I'd agree with this....who cares how far you hit a 5 iron. What's important is that you know how far you hit each club consistency so that you can accurately club yourself for an approach shot....not how far it compares to the average of your handicap for example...getting your yardages right across your irons is far more important than how far you hit them relative to someone else....by all means work on that on the range but i wouldnt get hung up on it.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ Ronney


    Agree with most of the above,
    and I know there are dozens of low single figures guys who only Drive it 220 yds.



    Firstly I'd look at the top end of your bag.


    In Ireland off the mortals tees the longest par 4's (usually index 1 contenders) are in the 450 yds ball park
    Short Par 5's starting at 470 yds and long par 3's at the 200 yds mark.


    To give yourself the best chance you need enough in the bag to reach those long Par 4's in regulation or else your automatically giving up a shot to the course essentially.

    I reckon you need at least 3 clubs in the bag that can break the 200yd mark anything more is a bonus (and i'm not suggesting the Mickelson 2 Driver approach!)

    eg Driver - 250 yds
    3W 225 yds
    3i/Rescue - 200yds

    This means on the long par 4 at 450 yds you are hitting Driver + rescue but still have the 3w in reserve if your driver comes up short in the rough or its into the wind etc.

    Driver + 3W will have you up to take advantage of short par 5's and like the par 4's for the long par 3's you have a bit in reserve if needed.

    your next 7/8 clubs 4i-PW/GW should cover from 100yds to 200yds

    Leaving SW/LW/Putter looking after the short end


    Depending on course set up/length you might on occasion drop a wedge for a 5W or stronger rescue.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭ blue note


    The longer you hit it while under control the better. If you go offline and you're driving it 220 yards instead of 260, your chances of being in trouble are significantly less.

    As someone said above, if you want to get to 10, you don't need huge distance to get there. If you want to get down to 5, it would be very difficult if you're short. You'd really need to be average, hitting a driver about 240 yards I reckon. And then on the other extreme, if you're long and in control you can get down fairly low without a great short game. I used to play with a guy like this. I'd be strong enough for distance, but he was 20 yards longer than me from the tee and not remotely wild. I think he played off about 6 though, because his chipping and putting were fairly average. And without being wild, when you're that long you'll still be in trouble occasionally from the tee. A better player might get those shots back from a solid short game, but he didn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭ MarcusP12


    Ronney wrote: »
    Agree with most of the above,
    and I know there are dozens of low single figures guys who only Drive it 220 yds.



    Firstly I'd look at the top end of your bag.


    In Ireland off the mortals tees the longest par 4's (usually index 1 contenders) are in the 450 yds ball park
    Short Par 5's starting at 470 yds and long par 3's at the 200 yds mark.


    To give yourself the best chance you need enough in the bag to reach those long Par 4's in regulation or else your automatically giving up a shot to the course essentially.

    I reckon you need at least 3 clubs in the bag that can break the 200yd mark anything more is a bonus (and i'm not suggesting the Mickelson 2 Driver approach!)

    eg Driver - 250 yds
    3W 225 yds
    3i/Rescue - 200yds

    This means on the long par 4 at 450 yds you are hitting Driver + rescue but still have the 3w in reserve if your driver comes up short in the rough or its into the wind etc.

    Driver + 3W will have you up to take advantage of short par 5's and like the par 4's for the long par 3's you have a bit in reserve if needed.

    your next 7/8 clubs 4i-PW/GW should cover from 100yds to 200yds

    Leaving SW/LW/Putter looking after the short end


    Depending on course set up/length you might on occasion drop a wedge for a 5W or stronger rescue.

    Good summary above....gapping in your bag is pretty important which is why knowing your stock yardages is key....tweak your bag to suit especially at the top end of the bag...i changed for wedge line up to get a better more even gapping from pitching wedge distance down to lob wedge...

    The one thing i would add to the above though is to also consider course management. If you're struggling with the long game, especially the 200+ 2nd shots, on a par 5 consider playing for position on the second and leaving whatever distance you're comfortable with getting it on and even close with....for me that was usually full sand wedge so often i'd be hitting mid to short irons on second shots....its better than ballooning a wood or long iron where you don't want to go and then trying to scramble for a par...


  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭ ClutchIt


    redzerdrog wrote: »
    If you are trying to compare swing speed you are better off judging off your 7 iron as there will be more data available for comparison purposes. Pga tour average 7 iron swing speed is 90mph

    Thanks Redzer, thus was the kind of info I was looking for. The chart I found was for LPGA. 7i = 76mph, so this is a more realistic target.


  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭ NotCarrotRidge


    redzerdrog wrote: »
    280 in rough still wins the majority of the time

    Depends on the course, really. I can think of plenty of places where you're regularly on trouble if not on the fairway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    benji79 wrote: »
    Doesn’t matter completely about distance. If you only drive it 200 yards but straight every time you’ll score better than someone who hits it 280 but wild a few times per round and possibly OB.

    I’d say anyone that can hit a 5 iron somewhere between 150-200 can be a decent single figure handicap provided they have an acceptable chipping & putting game


    For the golfer who only hits it 200 yards but in the fairway all the time, when they play a 400 yard par 4 they can't reach it in regulation. The golfer who hits it 280 but less accurate only has a wedge into a 400 yard hole.


    Over a period of time the golfer who hits it 200 has no chance against a golfer who hits it 280, no chance whats so ever.


    Every 25 yards gained leads to a big jump in performance even with a loss of accuracy.


    Distance trumps accuracy.



    And I know, there's always someone's uncle John who hits it nowhere and plays off 10, 5 , scratch etc, imagine how much better they would be with 25 yards extra, never mind the 80 yards given in this example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭ monkeybutter


    For the golfer who only hits it 200 yards but in the fairway all the time, when they play a 400 yard par 4 they can't reach it in regulation. The golfer who hits it 280 but less accurate only has a wedge into a 400 yard hole.


    Over a period of time the golfer who hits it 200 has no chance against a golfer who hits it 280, no chance whats so ever.


    Every 25 yards gained leads to a big jump in performance even with a loss of accuracy.


    Distance trumps accuracy.



    And I know, there's always someone's uncle John who hits it nowhere and plays off 10, 5 , scratch etc, imagine how much better they would be with 25 yards extra, never mind the 80 yards given in this example.




    And then they hit it 280 out of bounds or lost in the trees, versus the plodder hitting it 200 in the fairway each hole, who wins then


    because that's what they said


    if you hit it 80 yards longer you need to be more accurate in general to keep out of trouble, sometimes the fairway might open up, but not typically that much


  • Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    And then they hit it 280 out of bounds or lost in the trees, versus the plodder hitting it 200 in the fairway each hole, who wins then


    because that's what they said


    if you hit it 80 yards longer you need to be more accurate in general to keep out of trouble, sometimes the fairway might open up, but not typically that much


    The golfer hitting it 280 will not hit it out of bounds or in trouble each time either,



    but let's say they hit in the trees on a 400 yard hole, they knock it 100 yards out of the trees toward the green, they now are in the same position as the 200 yard golfer who can't reach the green in two no matter what.


    A gain of 25 yards with a loss of accuracy leads to a big improvement in performance, are you really trying to argue that being 80 yards shorter but more accurate is a good thing? All other things being equal the golfer who hits it 80 yards further will be around 6-7 shots better


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    redzerdrog wrote: »
    280 in rough still wins the majority of the time

    Depends on what you mean by "In the rough"
    If thats a yard or two in then yeah, but if it also covers being in the trees or water then no.

    Lots of more modern courses are wide open and distance is king, but on many older courses if you are offline you are dead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Distance trumps accuracy.

    Only if you are accurate "enough".

    The definition of enough differs on each course.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭ blue note


    Surely it goes without saying that on average the golfer who hits it further will be better? In the same way as the golfer who hits it more on line will be better, the golfer who's up and down percentage is better will be better, the golfer who gets more putts inside 6 feet will be better, etc.

    As regards distance having the biggest correlation to handicap at amateur level.... I'm not convinced. I'm going from anecdotal evidence because I haven't seen any stats on it, but if I look at the guys who are very low, they will almost always have good distance. But they're never wild from the tee. Then thinking of guys from 7-12 handicaps - lots of people in that range who don't hit it far. You can't be short (ignoring real exceptions) but I'd say if you're driving it 225 and always in play you can easily be at the lower end of that range. If you're at the lower end of that range though, there's no way you're wild off the tee.

    People should remember as well when thinking about hole lengths that you rarely can't cut a bit off a hole. I've played 450 yard par 4s from the blue stone that I'd regard as straight and hit a 250 yard drive and ended up with 180 yards to the middle of the green. Some holes are a lot longer on the scorecard than in reality.


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