Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

km79 · 23-01-2021 10:28PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If that's the case then the JC most definitely isn't happening.

It most definitely isn’t happening

daheff · 23-01-2021 10:42PM

JP100 wrote: »

What part of 'not testing close contacts' do you not understand?!

We can only go by the official numbers. Anything else is guess work on numbers.

There's capacity to test close contacts again now. Testing numbers hit circa 200k at one stage(over a week), but are now down to 150k over last 7 days.

Birdy · 23-01-2021 10:42PM

Blended learning until Easter could be a possibility.

Maybe a shortened school day to allow teachers to engage with pupils who are learning remotely.

This would take a lot of organisation but it seems like the only viable option judging by today's leak.

Str8outtaWuhan · 23-01-2021 10:43PM

So if JC doesn't happen I'm assuming Teacher assessment like last year? Big question then over why ever go back to a state exam at JC. Dept will be happy.

Leftwaffe · 23-01-2021 10:46PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

So if JC doesn't happen I'm assuming Teacher assessment like last year? Big question then over why ever go back to a state exam at JC. Dept will be happy.

I didn’t have JCs last year, what way we’re they graded??? Can’t remember.

I have them this year and I’ve been marking every single piece of work as there’s no way it’s happening.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 23-01-2021 10:48PM

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I didn’t have JCs last year, what way we’re they graded??? Can’t remember.

I have them this year and I’ve been marking every single piece of work as there’s no way it’s happening.

In a lot of cases you'd have the same class from 1st to 3rd year. Could grade them right now tbh

Smacruairi · 23-01-2021 10:50PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

In a lot of cases you'd have the same class from 1st to 3rd year. Could grade them right now tbh

Yeah to be fair you could almost predict what they would get from 2nd year Xmas test.

km79 · 23-01-2021 10:50PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

So if JC doesn't happen I'm assuming Teacher assessment like last year? Big question then over why ever go back to a state exam at JC. Dept will be happy.

And again reduce /abandon CBAs. I’d take that trade off. Waste. Of. Time.

mirrorwall14 · 23-01-2021 10:58PM

To be honest I’d happily lose the junior cert state exam in favour of exams in both fifth year and sixth year set and moderated externally by the SEC and with all students with at least one continuous assessment in every subject. Then we’d never end up in this state again

And I’m a teacher

km79 · 23-01-2021 11:02PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah to be fair you could almost predict what they would get from 2nd year Xmas test.

I could predict what 80% of JC students would get in most subjects across the country
Merit or Higher Merit

It’s a joke and the sooner it’s scrapped the better .

History Queen · 23-01-2021 11:03PM

km79 wrote: »

I could predict what 80% of JC students would get in most subjects across the country
Merit or Higher Merit

It’s a joke and the sooner it’s scrapped the better .

Omg... no more JCT....

Dickie10 · 23-01-2021 11:15PM

I cant see LC happening tbh. But as a teacher I would love if they gave a choice to those who want predicted grades or sit traditional LC in JULY. I think 50% would go predicted grades that would free up a lot of logistics/space etc. Make it a lot easier to run. But just dont see it happen

Leftwaffe · 23-01-2021 11:18PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

In a lot of cases you'd have the same class from 1st to 3rd year. Could grade them right now tbh

I only inherited these lot this year unfortunately but yeah I’ll have three groups next year for it that I’ve had since 1st year.

Random sample · 23-01-2021 11:20PM

I hate the thoughts of them being given a choice between predictive grades and sitting the exam. How do they decide? Based on whether their teacher will give them a good enough grade?

TTLF · 23-01-2021 11:31PM

Random sample wrote: »

I hate the thoughts of them being given a choice between predictive grades and sitting the exam. How do they decide? Based on whether their teacher will give them a good enough grade?

Think they get their predicted grade, not happy? sit the exam
least thats what students want

km79 · 23-01-2021 11:33PM

TTLF wrote: »

Think they get their predicted grade, not happy? sit the exam
least thats what students want

Same as last year so ?
Exams in November ?

TTLF · 23-01-2021 11:36PM

km79 wrote: »

Same as last year so ?
Exams in November ?

Not sure about WHEN exams would be, June is the hope, but that really depends on "if it's safe to do so"

We can't really compare last summers 7 daily cases to today as it's much different.

Stateofyou · 23-01-2021 11:43PM

Neagra wrote: »

we agree to close schools from now until march 22nd and then work right through until june 4th, close for one week and then reopen from june 14th until july 30th.

schools reopen early September

leaving cert to take place early june, to be taken in all the hotels, golf clubs etc currently closed across the country. invigilation to be privatised if necessary.
all exams to be computer based. this is the present, not the future.

every problem has a solution: you just need to discover it.

if schools are to remain closed for the foreseen future and the teachers and unions state remote and online learning works then i think we need to re-evaluate do we even need school buildings and do we need all those teachers.
if you take the social interaction out of schools is AI the answer we need to discover.

teachers and their union should be very careful where they end up pushing this.

That's a bit far-fetched I believe. I think we may be heading into hybrid remote learning systems alright, but schools still provide things online learning never can. Socialisation and friendships. I think most of us make life-long friends from school. The experiences we have at school mould us and teach us many things. We also benefit from group work and collaboration. Teachers praising or correcting behaviour shapes us and can inspire (or challenge us to grow). We learn a sense of community from our schools as well in how we interact within it, support it, and become integrated.

That last sentence is an empty threat, imo.

Bananaleaf · 23-01-2021 11:47PM

History Queen wrote: »

Omg... no more JCT....

They'll just rebrand themselves as the SCT - that reform is coming down the line sure.

Harder to get rid of them than this poxy virus!

rainbowtrout · 23-01-2021 11:51PM

khalessi wrote: »

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1191602/?__twitter_impression=true

This morning the Taoiseach said there was a failure in how the reopening of schools for students with additional needs has been handled, but he said "unions acted in good faith".

I await apologies from all those slagging off teachers and from Norma and Josepha.

Micheál is around long enough in politics to be able to read the room, and health fears aside is able to see that the public are generally not on the side of Norma when it comes to reopening schools. She has handled it woefully, and he knows it. She can't help herself. He would like to remain in government at the next election, she is expendable.

rainbowtrout · 24-01-2021 12:04AM

Dickie10 wrote: »

I cant see LC happening tbh. But as a teacher I would love if they gave a choice to those who want predicted grades or sit traditional LC in JULY. I think 50% would go predicted grades that would free up a lot of logistics/space etc. Make it a lot easier to run. But just dont see it happen

I disagree. There can't be an either or. The students have a contract of sorts with the SEC. They have a right to sit exams, it can't be either/or. If they opt for predicted grades, they can't have contact with teachers in order not to influence them. But they can't down tools in February, it's too early. Plenty would opt out at this point no doubt, but what purpose would it serve? They will have completed 5 months of Leaving Cert and had three months of schools online last year with wide variations in engagement. How is anyone supposed to assess that mess accurately?

And if students were to opt out now in favour of predicted grades, and later on decided to sit the exams because they weren't happy with predicted grades then they would have missed months of school. Not exactly conducive to doing well on a written exam for a course they had only completed half of.

Not to mind the fact that predicted grades were an absolute shit show last year, and with the way they panned out you can guarantee that grades submitted will be even higher this year.

Also many of these students intend on going to college next year and will spend an awful lot of time trying to catch up on material and survive in college if they don't complete their LC courses and don't have the groundwork completed in the relevant subjects.

km79 · 24-01-2021 12:21AM

TTLF wrote: »

Not sure about WHEN exams would be, June is the hope, but that really depends on "if it's safe to do so"

We can't really compare last summers 7 daily cases to today as it's much different.

The reason I asked was because you said students want to choose
They won’t have the results of the predicted grade process until August at the earliest

km79 · 24-01-2021 12:22AM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Micheál is around long enough in politics to be able to read the room, and health fears aside is able to see that the public are generally not on the side of Norma when it comes to reopening schools. She has handled it woefully, and he knows it. She can't help herself. He would like to remain in government at the next election, she is expendable.

And presumably returns to her day job .........

Neleven · 24-01-2021 12:27AM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I disagree. There can't be an either or. The students have a contract of sorts with the SEC. They have a right to sit exams, it can't be either/or. If they opt for predicted grades, they can't have contact with teachers in order not to influence them. But they can't down tools in February, it's too early. Plenty would opt out at this point no doubt, but what purpose would it serve? They will have completed 5 months of Leaving Cert and had three months of schools online last year with wide variations in engagement. How is anyone supposed to assess that mess accurately?

And if students were to opt out now in favour of predicted grades, and later on decided to sit the exams because they weren't happy with predicted grades then they would have missed months of school. Not exactly conducive to doing well on a written exam for a course they had only completed half of.

Not to mind the fact that predicted grades were an absolute shit show last year, and with the way they panned out you can guarantee that grades submitted will be even higher this year.

Also many of these students intend on going to college next year and will spend an awful lot of time trying to catch up on material and survive in college if they don't complete their LC courses and don't have the groundwork completed in the relevant subjects.

If schools/teachers draw up class rankings as were used in last year’s predicted grades, but do it now or very soon, then those who opt for predicted grades could be awarded grades standardised against the results of those who opt to sit the exams. It might be fairer that way. (Though admittedly the pressure would be intolerable in arriving at a ranking and deciding what criteria to use. No easy answers to this I feel.)

deiseindublin · 24-01-2021 12:31AM

Hopontop wrote: »

I’m a P.E. teacher and I’ve been doing live circuits with the juniors and TYs, I’m doing it really just so they have the option of exercise if they want to. I’d hate to think my holding the class would be like detention for kids and I think communication is key, if they don’t log in that’s fine (and if they don’t log in and are still exercising by going for a walk I think most teachers would be delighted!).

Bananaleaf wrote: »

This post is an excellent example of how you are damned if you do and damned if you don't

Ah, in fairness, I do agree, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I guess I'm just frustrated and trying to dovetail five schedules with us here working and schooling from home. I was just annoyed at the PE class keeping us in as such. I'd love if student choose to skip a few when it suited but as an eager first year would be terrified in case they got a 'black tick' iykwim.

rainbowtrout · 24-01-2021 12:34AM

km79 wrote: »

And presumably returns to her day job .........

To be a fly on the wall.......

rainbowtrout · 24-01-2021 12:42AM

Neleven wrote: »

If schools/teachers draw up class rankings as were used in last year’s predicted grades, but do it now or very soon, then those who opt for predicted grades could be awarded grades standardised against the results of those who opt to sit the exams. It might be fairer that way. (Though admittedly the pressure would be intolerable in arriving at a ranking and deciding what criteria to use. No easy answers to this I feel.)

Last year we taught students until 12th March. We continued to teach them online until May 8th. The year was done at that stage. They would have completed project work in most subjects, they would have done mocks, there would have been two years of tests to go on.

This year is completely different. No mocks (they do bring their own issues in assessing the veracity of the grade achieved), most project work is nowhere near completed and in some cases not started. A lot of language teachers do mock orals closer to the time of the real thing, that would not have begun yet. This year's cohort would have done summer tests at home last year so the validity of those grades is questionable. Many didn't engage at all last summer. There is far less to go on this year. This is the usual point in the year when you start to see students kick it up a gear, some from the mocks and some afterwards when reality starts to hit home.

Very hard to standardise predicted grades against those who sit exams. The DES weren't able to standardise grades accurately for the entire country last year

Bananaleaf · 24-01-2021 12:52AM

deiseindublin wrote: »

would be terrified in case they got a 'black tick' iykwim.

Any school that would even attempt to do something like this needs to have a word with itself. That is not on. Most are trying their best and if they need a day off or a class off here and there they should take it.

ac0607 · 24-01-2021 01:00AM

The half term is meant to be 15th feb, why not reopen on Feb 15th which would mean 5 weeks lost, but they were due to be off that week so that is one week back, and cancel the Easter Holidays 2 weeks meaning that 3 of the 5 weeks are pulled back and maybe extend the year by a week and suddenly we are back to almost a full year.

It is amazing that no politicians are suggesting this, I mean why would they need a half term when they have not been back to school?

mcgragger · 24-01-2021 01:01AM

ac0607 wrote: »

The half term is meant to be 15th feb, why not reopen on Feb 15th which would mean 5 weeks lost, but they were due to be off that week so that is one week back, and cancel the Easter Holidays 2 weeks meaning that 3 of the 5 weeks are pulled back and maybe extend the year by a week and suddenly we are back to almost a full year.

It is amazing that no politicians are suggesting this, I mean why would they need a half term when they have not been back to school?

I honestly don't think schools will be back before the end of April

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01