Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Stateofyou

The Wordress wrote: »

If schools don't get back before Easter, then my child would have missed the equivalent of half a school year at school which is too much at a young age.

I do an awful lot of work at home with her but I still can't replicate school and what she is taught there.

When I see statements like this I often wonder what homeschool parents and children have to say.

Haven't there been enough studies on homeschooling to show that it can produce a fine education for children?

combat14

Clouron wrote: »

Makes sense to me. For both teachers and working parents the whole primary homeschooling double jobbing is very very wearing and not at all sustainable. Many burned out the last time and in the end, just told the schools they couldn't do it with full time jobs.

I can't imagine any of us getting a summer holiday this year anyway...



quote="Neagra;116020248"]why would you think it is pointless?

i thinks its a great idea. call the holidays now until schools return and then run school well into summer to make up the time.
and start next school year in September as usual

[/QUOTE]

brilliant idea cancel all online learning for everyone during winter and deny everyone a summer holiday at the best time of year - love it

wirelessdude01

Stateofyou wrote: »

When I see statements like this I often wonder what homeschool parents and children have to say.

Haven't there been enough studies on homeschooling to show that it can produce a fine education for children?

Nearly positive this poster is a teacher in a special class/school.

Ray Donovan

combat14 wrote: »

brilliant idea cancel all online learning for everyone during winter and deny everyone a summer holiday at the best time of year - love it[/quote]

“It’s a beautiful July day Dad, let’s go to the beach”

“Afraid not Johnny. Into school and long division for you. And into school and fractions for me”.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Critical mass of adults not expected to be vaccinated til September so putting off return in exchange for holidays won't make much sense.

Presume they'll try different year groups on different days after midterm. Go blended for remainder of year, not ideal but not many other options.

Otherwise next academic year could be months later in starting and this has a knock on effect on the following years etc.

Dayo93

Stateofyou wrote: »

When I see statements like this I often wonder what homeschool parents and children have to say.

Haven't there been enough studies on homeschooling to show that it can produce a fine education for children?

Probably , but Im sure them studies are off people who are home schooling and not trying to hold down a fulltime job too

Stateofyou

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Nearly positive this poster is a teacher in a special class/school.

Dayo93 wrote: »

Probably , but Im sure them studies are off people who are home schooling and not trying to hold down a fulltime job too

Both good points. And also, not everyone at home who is or isn't working full time will be suited to teaching either I suppose. People who make that choice to homeschool have no doubt decided they're capable of taking on the challenge.

But also, I do think it's possible to replicate a decent education at home too though, yes? It's shít that so much of regular life is closed though - libraries, museums, galleries, travel, sports, music etc that would probably normally supplement that lifestyle.

Neagra

its tough reading posts here by teachers who will not even consider holiday term now and working through summer to make up for it.
i hope all teachers not like this but maybe i am naive

History Queen

Neagra wrote: »

its tough reading posts here by teachers who will not even consider holiday term now and working through summer to make up for it.
i hope all teachers not like this but maybe i am naive

But there are some valid reasons not to. I'd consider it but when I look at it there are issues.

1. Students need midterms, weeks and weeks of school without a break isn't sustainable for most students (and I'd find it hard to be honest)
2. What if we are in a worse or similar situation when holiday time is over?
3. Do you reset the next school year or just start in September potentially running this school year in to the next?
4. What impact will this have on state exams?

Dayo93

Neagra wrote: »

its tough reading posts here by teachers who will not even consider holiday term now and working through summer to make up for it.
i hope all teachers not like this but maybe i am naive

As a parent I would not like to see the Schools open during July and August, Mine are only primary so i dont think it would be needed, however leaving cert is a different beast altogether.

am_zarathustra

Neagra wrote: »

its tough reading posts here by teachers who will not even consider holiday term now and working through summer to make up for it.
i hope all teachers not like this but maybe i am naive

They haven't even cancelled exams. I teach higher level maths to LC students, sure I'll tell them I'm downing tools.

Kids will need a break too and lord knows the vitamin D and exercise after the prolonged lockdown. The vast majority of secondary kids can learn online based on the rake of correcting I'm just about half way through currently, if they weren't I would have a lot less to correct. The LCs are just getting on with it, we went through choices and moved the course around so more procedural stuff is being done at home. They are fairly happy. The ones giving out don't represent all students. With the masks, distancing and worry the schools weren't exactly the most fun either. It takes a lot more work and equipment to teach effectively online but most teachers will rise to the challenge as usual.I'd be hopeful exam years will be back after midterm and the rest in some form of blended learning........if only the department had had notice this might happen!!!

A couple of months out of primary won't make much difference to a kid. Ii missed a day at least a week for most of primary or secondary for sport and extra curriculars. I got a very decent leaving. Special educational needs are another issue and money should be thrown at that area, I hope the stakeholders grab the attention currently on it and make hay while they can. Mostly people ignore the state of SEN in Ireland, having it in the headlines might give people pause for thought

Icyseanfitz

the kelt wrote: »

Parent of kids with additional needs here����*♀️. I especially need people who aren't parents of kids with additional needs to please listen to what I have to say. .

So this month our family's (and others like ours) desperate need for additional help and services has been used as a tool to score political points by Norma Foley and her pals. Teachers are not to blame here. They are being asked to risk their health for our children to return to education when really what our children need is consistent occupational, physio and speech therapy and access to psychology services and respite.

We have come to rely on school to make up for the failure of our health service to provide therapy and respite to our children. That's not what school is and that's not the job of teachers and SNAs.
If we are at breaking point because our children can't go to school, well we need to take a moment and appreciate that teachers are filling more than just the role of educators in our children's lives.

This is a stress test. The HSE have always failed our children. Disability services have never been good enough. Respite has never been good enough.

Please don't let them shift blame to the teachers. We've been fighting for services in court for years. This isn't a new problem.

Saw this today on Facebook , thought it was interesting.

In my experience the majority of people realise the real issues such as above but what’s sadder is the nasty little element of society who couldn’t give a rats arse about kids education but will take this opportunity to have a go at teachers and unions and I include many politicians in that boat, in particular those that are meant to be resolving this issue. It says everything that the people in charge think the only thing kids need is schools gate open!

She and her parties have done nothing to help these kids over the years, they’ve done nothing to help all kids since the beginning of this pandemic only bank on schools staying open and numbers down, failing that try to bully and bluster schools into opening whilst shifting the blame everywhere else they can away from them.

Fantastic post, hope you and your child are doing okay in these crazy times.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Neagra wrote: »

its tough reading posts here by teachers who will not even consider holiday term now and working through summer to make up for it.
i hope all teachers not like this but maybe i am naive

Big difference between not considering it and explaining how it won't work.

touts

km79 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1353020081341689857?s=08

If the schools don't go back until after St Patricks day then the Leaving Cert is over. It'll be predictive grading. And you might as well set them loose now because there is **** all chance the kids will do anything once they know it's all based on statistics anyway.

God help the Lecturers etc in Universities next year. Apparently this years intake were fairly poor but next year....

deiseindublin

alroley wrote: »

I think special schools/classes/children with AEN in mainstream as well as DEIS schools will be the priority before exam students. I think next Tuesday they will announce calculated grades and most students will be happy with that.

I haven't heard NF or JM mention DEIS yet. Tbh, DEIS is such a huge percentage of our school going population, I can't see DEIS being prioritised as a group.

km79

touts wrote: »

If the schools don't go back until after St Patricks day then the Leaving Cert is over. It'll be predictive grading. And you might as well set them loose now because there is **** all chance the kids will do anything once they know it's all based on statistics anyway.

God help the Lecturers etc in Universities next year. Apparently this years intake were fairly poor but next year....

Leaving certs will be back after the mid term. If not sooner

Bananaleaf

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Big difference between not considering it and explaining how it won't work.

Absolutely. Came here to write exactly that.

You can imagine the scenes if we went on holiday from Monday and then come April/May it still wasn't safe to go back.

Red Silurian

I don't blame the teachers, if you listen to them they all say they want to be teaching in the classroom, it's the unions seem to want to keep them out which I find very unfair because then the public backlash then is on the teachers... I know a few teachers considering leaving their union as a result

Bananaleaf

km79 wrote: »

Leaving certs will be back after the mid term. If not sooner

The more I think of this I believe this will be it.

I think it will be proposed that the LCs are back and it will be in order to get them a Leaving Cert.

If the unions don't agree to us being back for LCs this time, there'll be no Leaving Cert and I'd say it will even be put across to us and to the media in exactly those terms.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong before someone jumps on the post and says I'm refusing to go back. I'm stating what I think will be the outcome of the govt talks next week.

am_zarathustra

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Absolutely. Came here to write exactly that.

You can imagine the scenes if we went on holiday from Monday and then come April/May it still wasn't safe to go back.

The kids would be wild too. The structure of live classes, chats, breakout rooms, homework, assignments also gives purpose and structure to their day. Leaving kids with no schooling, in the middle of winter, stuck in their houses won't do any child much good.

Bananaleaf

am_zarathustra wrote: »

The kids would be wild too. The structure of live classes, chats, breakout rooms, homework, assignments also gives purpose and structure to their day. Leaving kids with no schooling, in the middle of winter, stuck in their houses won't do any child much good.

True enough. Hadn't even thought of that but yes you are right.

deiseindublin

C__MC wrote: »

Given that its going to the 17th, alot of students will be burned out via online I'm guessing

Some schools are being ridiculous about online classes. One of my kids had a double PE online during the week hwere they chatted. We had to cancel a walk planned for the middle of the day because it. By all means check in with pupils but that's akin to online detention. Followed by a double woodwork where they drew pictures of the various tools. I wish they'd let the 1st years pick options now and drop the extra ones. They are going to be squared eyed otherwise.

am_zarathustra

Bananaleaf wrote: »

The more I think of this I believe this will be it.

I think it will be proposed that the LCs are back and it will be in order to get them a Leaving Cert.

If the unions don't agree to us being back for LCs this time, there'll be no Leaving Cert and I'd say it will even be put across to us and to the media in exactly those terms.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong before someone jumps on the post and says I'm refusing to go back. I'm stating what I think will be the outcome of the govt talks next week.

I'm grand going back for my LCs in a couple of weeks when contact tracing is back up and running. They are old enough to follow rules correctly and will be responsible. Awkward enough given I'm live teaching other classes but it's workable. Everyone back is a bit reckless until numbers are way down.

Smacruairi

colmtheperson wrote: »

I don't blame the teachers, if you listen to them they all say they want to be teaching in the classroom, it's the unions seem to want to keep them out which I find very unfair because then the public backlash then is on the teachers... I know a few teachers considering leaving their union as a result

And I know a few teachers who if they were told to go into an unsafe environment would be champing at the bit to join a union.

Unions want school to go ahead, but safely. That's literally it. And with all of Normas bluster, there's no more "Don the green Jersey". We will be back in classes when they're back in the Dail, think that's a fairly decent level of comparison to make.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Bananaleaf wrote: »

The more I think of this I believe this will be it.

I think it will be proposed that the LCs are back and it will be in order to get them a Leaving Cert.

If the unions don't agree to us being back for LCs this time, there'll be no Leaving Cert and I'd say it will even be put across to us and to the media in exactly those terms.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong before someone jumps on the post and says I'm refusing to go back. I'm stating what I think will be the outcome of the govt talks next week.

LCs to go back, no problem as numbers are dropping. New varient highly infectious but hopefully reduced capacity will help.

What I do think will happen then is objections from secondary students union. Similar to pattern last year.

Lisha

deiseindublin wrote: »

Some schools are being ridiculous about online classes. One of my kids had a double PE online during the week hwere they chatted. We had to cancel a walk planned for the middle of the day because it. By all means check in with pupils but that's akin to online detention. Followed by a double woodwork where they drew pictures of the various tools. I wish they'd let the 1st years pick options now and drop the extra ones. They are going to be squared eyed otherwise.

My son (1st yr) was told to go for a 5km run , if kids couldn’t leave house they were told do various exercises.

I hear you on the cancelling walk, my sons teachers are going by time table... sometimes a full class takes place other times they might be given a task. But the week I work evenings I’d love us to go for a walk by day to get primary school daughter out as she is just doing as told on seesaw. He is more attached to house during school day. The routine goes help him he feels a lot more connected to school

Lisha

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I'm grand going back for my LCs in a couple of weeks when contact tracing is back up and running. They are old enough to follow rules correctly and will be responsible. Awkward enough given I'm live teaching other classes but it's workable. Everyone back is a bit reckless until numbers are way down.

I’ve heard some say that if all arent back then LCs shouldn’t go back as it’s not safe. I can’t understand that. Sure 100 in a school is safer than 600... this years LCs have missed a huge amount.

acequion

Today's numbers have dipped under 2k. That's a very positive sign coming from where we were.

All this hysteria about schools being closed until after Paddy's Day is premature imo. Now I'm well aware that came from MM himself but when have they ever been good at communication and when have they not flip flopped like Olympians!

It could be a different story by next week. Let's try to be more positive!

beggars_bush

acequion wrote: »

Today's numbers have dipped under 2k. That's a very positive sign coming from where we were.

All this hysteria about schools being closed until after Paddy's Day is premature imo. Now I'm well aware that came from MM himself but when have they ever been good at communication and when have they not flip flopped like Olympians!

It could be a different story by next week. Let's try to be more positive!

Wait until close contacts are tested

jimmytwotimes 2013

acequion wrote: »

Today's numbers have dipped under 2k. That's a very positive sign coming from where we were.

All this hysteria about schools being closed until after Paddy's Day is premature imo. Now I'm well aware that came from MM himself but when have they ever been good at communication and when have they not flip flopped like Olympians!

It could be a different story by next week. Let's try to be more positive!

The headline number is misleading. Its the nature of the new varients that have changed the game. If they're as infectious, as reported, it will run thro schools open at capacity.

Numbers need to be way down, and worth remembering contact tracing has collapsed.

Optimistic is all well and good but not a substitute for realism.