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UK/Ireland Zero Covid Area

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    #62
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Firstly you would be relying on the EU as whole to cooperate.
    Best case scenario is the EU is to reduce internal travel to essential only and stopping all travel outside the block even then there would have to be some sort of essential travel.
    Secondly you would require the uk to singed up to the same agreement and time frame best of luck with that as soon as there numbers get better they would open up.
    At best this would only last till the end of may,you would have the likes of grease Italy and Spain wanting holiday season happening.
    France won't agree to anything with the uk they just don't trust boris or the Tories.
    Too many obstacles so many that you wouldn't be able to list them all.
    I don't think zero covid is a possibility for Ireland.


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    But, and I'll say this again, if the unionists arent on board with it, what do we do?!!

    By the way I've an economics degree and I'm also a doctor

    Boris says essential only travellers to UK/quarantining etc. We do the same. Whats to agree? They have no choice. Our border is left open.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Firstly you would be relying on the EU as whole to cooperate.
    Best case scenario is the EU is to reduce internal travel to essential only and stopping all travel outside the block even then there would have to be some sort of essential travel.
    Secondly you would require the uk to singed up to the same agreement and time frame best of luck with that as soon as there numbers get better they would open up.
    At best this would only last till the end of may,you would have the likes of grease Italy and Spain wanting holiday season happening.
    France won't agree to anything with the uk they just don't trust boris or the Tories.
    Too many obstacles so many that you wouldn't be able to list them all.
    I don't think zero covid is a possibility for Ireland.

    We will see.

    If eu leaders realise vaccination is not going to solve this in six months then what choice do they have. Penny is dropping.


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    #65
    breadmonster
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭breadmonster


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Firstly you would be relying on the EU as whole to cooperate.
    Best case scenario is the EU is to reduce internal travel to essential only and stopping all travel outside the block even then there would have to be some sort of essential travel.
    Secondly you would require the uk to singed up to the same agreement and time frame best of luck with that as soon as there numbers get better they would open up.
    At best this would only last till the end of may,you would have the likes of grease Italy and Spain wanting holiday season happening.
    France won't agree to anything with the uk they just don't trust boris or the Tories.
    Too many obstacles so many that you wouldn't be able to list them all.
    I don't think zero covid is a possibility for Ireland.

    We wouldn't be stopping people from the eu or the uk same rules apply -> covid hotel. Are you thinking we would run out of hotel space?
    No one is stopping the uk from opening up they going to be months ahead of us (fair play to them) but if you cross the border, test free or vaccination card.


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    #66
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Boris says essential only travellers to UK/quarantining etc. We do the same. Whats to agree? They have no choice. Our border is left open.

    The common travel area is exempt as stated by boris


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    #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ZX7R wrote: »
    The common travel area is exempt as stated by boris

    If UK goes zero covid.

    We follow with ours but as you say CTA is exempt.

    Im trying to find your problem.

    UK and ireland are stopping all others from simply flying in. Whats to agree?

    CTA is already in place (nothing to agree).

    UK stop all others from simply flying in.

    We do the same.

    McConkey thought of this 8 months ago.

    Its not that difficult once UK enforce travel restrictions which seems to be new reality. We piggy back off their system.


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    #68
    breadmonster
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭breadmonster


    we don't have to stop anyone flying in just make it really expensive for anyone wishing to do so they will soon change there mind, breaks no rules
    0 covid + hospitality sector back in business.


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    #69
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If UK goes zero covid.

    We follow with ours but as you say CTA is exempt.

    Im trying to find your problem.

    UK and ireland are stopping all others from simply flying in. Whats to agree?

    CTA is already in place (nothing to agree).

    UK stop all others from simply flying in.

    We do the same.

    McConkey thought of this 8 months ago.

    Its not that difficult once UK enforce travel restrictions which seems to be new reality. We piggy back off their system.

    Our borders would still be open unless the EU does the same at the same time.


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    #70
    sReq | uTeK
    Registered Users Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭sReq | uTeK


    begbysback wrote: »
    There is no such thing as zero covid, New Zealand is in Alice in wonderland, only permanently lockdown would achieve zero, let’s see what happens when prime minister explains that to the kiwis.

    They're covid free. They have stadiums packed with fans and people walking the streets and shops with no masks and no distancing. She achieved this by locking the boarders and forcing quarantine on arrival. Oh and you pay a fee for the pleasure of quarantine. Even citizens go through this process. I'm not saying we lock the boarder, that's impossible but we could absolutely improve how we deal with people coming in and our if this country especially those in high risk countries

    I know we cannot close rhe


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    #71
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    breadmonster wrote: »
    I don't see why the border with the north is a problem if you try and cross it you get a week in a covid hotel unless you have a test result or a vaccination card, there going to be vaccinated way before us so wont have much to complain about. Apply the same for belmullet or any other blackspot town shouldn't be allowed leave the area till its gone.

    This just won't work. Have you any idea how much border trade and workers cross the border every day? Including many nurses and front line staff working in hospitals and other essential services in the Republic?

    Then you have the problem of manning every border 24/7?
    Not to mention the political repercussions of all of that.

    Whatever about zero Covid working across a whole uk/Ireland zone, shutting the border to try and achieve this could never work IMO, especially if we are talking about keeping it closed for possibly years...


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    #72
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Its not all ireland. That would never work. Ireland goes zero covid. Uk goes zero covid. Done. There is not alot to agree. We can only go along with what UK are doing. If they go zero covid, we follow. Its that simple. We are beholden to UK whether we like it or not.

    Did you ever actually pay attention to Conservative backbenchers. There is more chance of UK following Swedish model than Zero Covid strategy. Neither is any other EU country as far as I can see.


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    #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Did you ever actually pay attention to Conservative backbenchers. There is more chance of UK following Swedish model than Zero Covid strategy. Neither is any other EU country as far as I can see.

    Did you actually listen to boris and eu leaders in last few days?

    Were have you been hiding?


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    #74
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Did you ever actually pay attention to Conservative backbenchers. There is more chance of UK following Swedish model than Zero Covid strategy. Neither is any other EU country as far as I can see.


    Not forgetting the population of the UK being 3 times that of Australia. The population density of Austraia is also 3 per square km. For the UK its 275. It is a lot harder to maintain low rates of community transmission with those sort figures


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    #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    Not forgetting the population of the UK being 3 times that of Australia. The population density of Austraia is also 3 per square km. For the UK its 275. It is a lot harder to maintain low rates of community transmission with those sort figures

    Population density of south korea/japan high = low covid.

    Population denisty belmullet mayo low = high covid.

    That population density argument has not aged well.


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    #76
    CorkRed93
    Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭CorkRed93


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    Not forgetting the population of the UK being 3 times that of Australia. The population density of Austraia is also 3 per square km. For the UK its 275. It is a lot harder to maintain low rates of community transmission with those sort figures

    Any update on how asia are doing? SK Japan Taiwan etc. If we can't do what Oz/Nz did why are we not looking at other places that have successfully dealt with this. Its quite clear current policy is futile. Its only prolonging the pain. If the people running the country had any balls theyd change things now so we can have a normal summer/life for the rest of the year while not hedging our bets on delayed doses of vaccines.


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    #77
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    CorkRed93 wrote: »
    Any update on how asia are doing? SK Japan Taiwan etc. If we can't do what Oz/Nz did why are we not looking at other places that have successfully dealt with this. Its quite clear current policy is futile. Its only prolonging the pain. If the people running the country had any balls theyd change things now so we can have a normal summer/life for the rest of the year while not hedging our bets on delayed doses of vaccines.


    Japan doesnt share a land border. I'd imagine it's pretty hard to cross the border from South Korea into North Korea as well. I dont know anything about Taiwan. Once again, if the DUP dont want to make travel reatricted from the UK, how the hell do we patrol our 300 road borders with northern Ireland?


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    #78
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Population density of south korea/japan high = low covid.

    Population denisty belmullet mayo low = high covid.

    That population density argument has not aged well.


    The border around belmullet is slightly more porous than the border around South Korea.

    And you're actually defeating your own argument there given that a lot of the problem with Belmullet was UK visitors......


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    Japan doesnt share a land border. I'd imagine it's pretty hard to cross the border from South Korea into North Korea as well. I dont know anything about Taiwan. Once again, if the DUP dont want to make travel reatricted from the UK, how the hell do we patrol our 300 road borders with northern Ireland?

    We form a british isles covid free zone.

    It depends on political will.

    That political will in UK seems to be there for first time.

    We are less than 10% of UK population.

    We are the minority interest in all of this.

    In effect we can only go as far as UK want to go which is why we have not pursued zero covid to date.


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    #80
    phater phagan
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭phater phagan


    Does anybody have any information on the UK mutant that seems to be so easily contagious?
    I heard a medical expert on radio saying that the reason there are more deaths is not because the that variant is more dangerous but because it is caught more easily: thus a higher proportion in hospital and consequently more deaths. Does that make any sense?
    I have noticed that people in the park where I walk are now wearing masks; whereas before, no one was wearing them. Is there any information about how it is so readily contracted? Are the 2 meter distance guidelines not a safe distance with the variant, and can it be transmitted in a wide open space where few people are merely passing one another on a path?
    I wish there was more information from the government on why it is so contagious.


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    #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    The border around belmullet is slightly more porous than the border around South Korea.

    And you're actually defeating your own argument there given that a lot of the problem with Belmullet was UK visitors......

    Im going to stop arguing with you. UK have not yet pursued zero covid. All borders in europe are wide open and its January. Which one is it with you borders or density?

    I think density argument is a garbage argument. USA is not densely populated. Point is borders are wide open. Borders are important in a global economy.


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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    phater phagan wrote: »
    Does anybody have any information on the UK mutant that seems to be so easily contagious?
    I heard a medical expert on radio saying that the reason there are more deaths is not because the that variant is more dangerous but because it is caught more easily: thus a higher proportion in hospital and consequently more deaths. Does that make any sense?
    I have noticed that people in the park where I walk are now wearing masks; whereas before, no one was wearing them. Is there any information about how it is so readily contracted? Are the 2 meter distance guidelines not a safe distance with the variant, and can it be transmitted in a wide open space where few people are merely passing one another on a path?
    I wish there was more information from the government on why it is so contagious.

    Philip Nolan said it well. High risk situations are now more high risk. Indoors/close contact. Out for a walk low risk and still is low risk. He compared it to a jourmalist that was 30 metres from him. Old variant million to one of catching it off journalist. New variant million to 1.3. High risk is more high risk and low risk is still low risk. Wearing a mask in high density populated park in winter is not unreasonable idea with high covid prevalence. If your walking in area with little people around then not needed so much.


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    #83
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Im going to stop arguing with you. UK have not yet pursued zero covid. All borders in europe are wide open and its January. Which one is it with you borders or density?

    I think density argument is a garbage argument. USA is not densely populated. Point is borders are wide open. Borders are important in a global economy.


    Let's just agree to leave it there


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    #84
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Did you actually listen to boris and eu leaders in last few days?

    Were have you been hiding?

    I heard it. That's still far from Zero Covid.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I heard it. That's still far from Zero Covid.

    Zero covid is essentially control your borders and make sure covid infected people from abroad dont get into your general population. Everything else UK/Ireland are doing the same things as austrailia have done.

    What else are they doing?

    Lockdowns for months. Weve done that many many times.

    UK will be quarantining people in hotels. Its a question of it will be ,done well or badly?

    It will not be done as well as austrailia but may help.


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    #86
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Zero covid is essentially control your borders and make sure covid infected people from abroad dont get into your general population. Everything else UK/Ireland are doing the same things as austrailia have done.

    What else are they doing?

    Lockdowns for months. Weve done that many many times.

    UK will be quarantining people in hotels. Its a question of it will be ,done well or badly?

    It will not be done as well as austrailia but may help.

    Covid 0 is also tightly control the cases in community and that's where most European countries will fail. It's a nice idea but it won't work and there is no appetite to try it by European political leaders. You also need all people to buy into it and do what they are told. EU has free movement of workforce and Ireland like other richer countries rely on migrant seasonal workforce. Everyone goes on about borders but it's the community transmissions inside the country that we never got on top of.


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Covid 0 is also tightly control the cases in community and that's where most European countries will fail. It's a nice idea but it won't work and there is no appetite to try it by European political leaders. You also need all people to buy into it and do what they are told. EU has free movement of workforce and Ireland like other richer countries rely on migrant seasonal workforce. Everyone goes on about borders but it's the community transmissions inside the country that we never got on top of.

    We got covid cases down to a handful per day. As McConkey said at the time the chances of getting covid in the community in late June were "one in a million".


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    #88
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,051 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Labour Party now rowing in behind zero covid, or 'aggressive suppression strategy' as Alan Kelly prefers to call it, as SDs and 'hard left' have already done. Says we need to do it within ROI if NI and rest of UK can't be brought on board.


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    #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    a case of community transmission in NZ today,an english woman with upto 30 points of contact 10 days after quarantine



    Last time they locked down entire north island for 6 community transmission cases, hopefully they can get on top of it again


    Zero covid is about to get its biggest test


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    #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Labour Party now rowing in behind zero covid, or 'aggressive suppression strategy' as Alan Kelly prefers to call it, as SDs and 'hard left' have already done. Says we need to do it within ROI if NI and rest of UK can't be brought on board.

    Never voted for left leaning party before but one of them will get my vote next time around.

    Centre parties are good in good times. We need a radical strategy/party in difficult times.

    As Keynes said " in the long run we are all dead". What he meant by this, economically was that in the long run the economy will rectify itself. His argument was at what price in the here and now?. The same applies now in slightly differenr context. In the long run coronavirus will be the common cold and causing little or no disruption. In the short term we have got to think radically to get through this. Airlines are collateral damage. Now get on with it.


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    #91
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    New Zealand and Australia can never reopen their borders normally because covid cases will flood in. Their tourism industries are destroyed. There are people being prevented from seeing their loved ones abroad for years, families separated because some dont have permanent status. I dont think that is a success. They have backed themselves in a corner now though and have to stay with it.


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