Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

Icyseanfitz · 22-01-2021 01:57PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

People in nursing homes *live* there. I would think having a home and not freezing to death is essential. Again, human body only lives so long without food and water. Education is not on a critical par with shelter and food.*Obviously you don't any serious points.
Also in the nature of life and people in harms way, are overwhelmed hospitals, having an even worse, non-covid related knock on effect.
Again, in Jan 2021 this shouldn't still need to be pointed out.
Christ, where are these covid conspiracists crawling out from under today.

Its utterly depressing that we still have to argue about covid being worse than the flu.

Responder XY · 22-01-2021 02:04PM

skippy1977 wrote: »

I don't know the numbers but 25 sounds plenty....were any of them related to you.

Not sure if 25 is right for under 55s, but per CSO the number is 22 for under 44s (as of last week)

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries20/

For context - in 2016, 46 people in the under 55 age category died of respiratory disease. hard to do a direct comparison due to the different age buckets used in the two CSO reports, but reasonable to say that Covid risk isn't completely out of kilter with risk from respiratory disease.

Whilst there is a real and very tangible increase in relative risk - the overall numbers remain very low and are a blip in total deaths for that age category which is over 1,700 people.

As a society we accepted the risk of getting a respiratory disease and dying before covid. The increase in relative risk makes some precautions very sensible. But we shouldn't over react when considering the impact on younger people.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-vsar/vitalstatisticsannualreport2016/deaths2016/

Responder XY · 22-01-2021 02:08PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

People in nursing homes *live* there. I would think having a home and not freezing to death is essential. Again, human body only lives so long without food and water. Education is not on a critical par with shelter and food.*Obviously you don't any serious points.
Also in the nature of life and people in harms way, are overwhelmed hospitals, having an even worse, non-covid related knock on effect.
Again, in Jan 2021 this shouldn't still need to be pointed out.
Christ, where are these covid conspiracists crawling out from under today.

There is no conspiracy in what I'm saying. I know covid can be bad.

I'm saying that in my view that on balance education should remain open. More harm is done by closing education than benefit.

I'm not in the pubs thread arguing this.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Its utterly depressing that we still have to argue about covid being worse than the flu.

It's depressing that you are arguing that against people who are not saing it isn't worse than the flu.

Stateofyou · 22-01-2021 02:09PM

Responder XY wrote: »

Not sure if 25 is right for under 55s, but per CSO the number is 22 for under 44s (as of last week)

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries20/

For context - in 2016, 46 people in the under 55 age category died of respiratory disease. hard to do a direct comparison due to the different age buckets used in the two CSO reports, but reasonable to say that Covid risk isn't completely out of kilter with risk from respiratory disease.

Whilst there is a real and very tangible increase in relative risk - the overall numbers remain very low and are a blip in total deaths for that age category which is over 1,700 people.

As a society we accepted the risk of getting a respiratory disease and dying before covid. The increase in relative risk makes some precautions very sensible. But we shouldn't over react when considering the impact on younger people.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-vsar/vitalstatisticsannualreport2016/deaths2016/

We also shouldn't ignore the fact that death is not the only undesirable outcome.

Stateofyou · 22-01-2021 02:11PM

Responder XY wrote: »

There is no conspiracy in what I'm saying. I know covid can be bad.

I'm saying that in my view that on balance education should remain open. More harm is done by closing education than benefit.

I'm not in the pubs thread arguing this.

It's depressing that you are arguing that against people who are not saing it isn't worse than the flu.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but many (most?) countries health experts and governments disagree with you. Including our own, as we have currently closed schools, again. And edit to add, education isn't closed. It's happening from home.

Responder XY · 22-01-2021 02:15PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

We also shouldn't ignore the fact that death is not the only undesirable outcome.

Not intending to ignore - but think it would be fair to say the non death implications is proportional to deaths for both covid and non-covid. So if the numbers were accessible there the same argument would hold true.

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but many (most?) countries health experts and governments disagree with you. Including our own, as we have currently closed schools, again.

Our government wants to open the schools I believe.

I think as a society we are putting a bit too much faith in health experts views on things which are not health. Health experts should advise on the health implications. Education experts should be lobbying the government as to how critical their role is and the government should then have to make a decision balancing the view of different experts.

Even the pubs try to make their case, even though they acknowledge it isn't a strong one right now!

Instead our education experts run and hide behind the health experts and don't even try to articulate the impacts of what they are doing on children.

Icyseanfitz · 22-01-2021 02:18PM

Responder XY wrote: »

There is no conspiracy in what I'm saying. I know covid can be bad.

I'm saying that in my view that on balance education should remain open. More harm is done by closing education than benefit.

I'm not in the pubs thread arguing this.

It's depressing that you are arguing that against people who are not saing it isn't worse than the flu.

I had a poster earlier essentially say it was nothing worse than the flu for most people

Murple · 22-01-2021 02:27PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Average teacher must take home what, 800 per week?

What would you define as ‘average teacher’?

Stateofyou · 22-01-2021 02:34PM

Responder XY wrote: »

Not intending to ignore - but think it would be fair to say the non death implications is proportional to deaths for both covid and non-covid. So if the numbers were accessible there the same argument would hold true.

Our government wants to open the schools I believe.

I think as a society we are putting a bit too much faith in health experts views on things which are not health. Health experts should advise on the health implications. Education experts should be lobbying the government as to how critical their role is and the government should then have to make a decision balancing the view of different experts.

Even the pubs try to make their case, even though they acknowledge it isn't a strong one right now!

Instead our education experts run and hide behind the health experts and don't even try to articulate the impacts of what they are doing on children.

We all want to open the schools? That doesn't mean is it possible during certain realities...

Those who's job it is to look after educational interests (Ministers for ed and DES) have been flapping about not doing anything tangible about remote learning and implementing safety measures that could allow education to continue, lining up supports, etc - as soon as health experts deem it possible.
Our education "experts" just run and hide, full stop.

Hellrazer · 22-01-2021 02:35PM

penny piper wrote: »

Why should Teachers be put on a lower salary if they are doing their job???
Plenty of people are working from home....no salary should be lowered if you are doing your job....People who are the pandemic payment cannot do their job...that's why they are on this payment.....

Some jobs you can do from home some you can't fact.

Teachers arent doing their job from home though.

I have 3 in secondary school - since they were told the schools werent reopening the 1st and 2nd years have has 2 HOURS of online schooling per day despite the school saying that online classes would be in line with their school timetable - last time I checked they were in from 8.30 to 3.30

My 6th year (LC) has at most gotten 3 hours per day and some of those so called "online classes" are teachers that basically just said to and I quote "work away on your own and keep studying for the exams"

So dont give me this crap they are doing their jobs and working from home.

They arent doing a tap..they are doing as little as possible and taking full wages. Put them all on PUP unless they prove they are doing a full days work...that will get them back into the schools quicker than any negotiations.

Typical public servants - we all lose our jobs and salaries and they get to sit at home doing **** all and getting paid for it.

Boils my blood!!!

/Rant over.

CapriciousOne · 22-01-2021 02:38PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Teachers arent doing their job from home though.

I have 3 in secondary school - since they were told the schools werent reopening the 1st and 2nd years have has 2 HOURS of online schooling per day despite the school saying that online classes would be in line with their school timetable - last time I checked they were in from 8.30 to 3.30

My 6th year (LC) has at most gotten 3 hours per day and some of those so called "online classes" are teachers that basically just said to and I quote "work away on your own and keep studying for the exams"

So dont give me this crap they are doing their jobs and working from home.

They arent doing a tap..they are doing as little as possible and taking full wages. Put them all on PUP unless they prove they are doing a full days work...that will get them back into the schools quicker than any negotiations.

Typical public servants - we all lose our jobs and salaries and they get to sit at home doing **** all and getting paid for it.

Boils my blood!!!

/Rant over.

Anecdotal and tarring a whole cohort with the same brush. Very poor post from a mod.

wirelessdude01 · 22-01-2021 02:38PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Teachers arent doing their job from home though.

I have 3 in secondary school - since they were told the schools werent reopening the 1st and 2nd years have has 2 HOURS of online schooling per day despite the school saying that online classes would be in line with their school timetable - last time I checked they were in from 8.30 to 3.30

My 6th year (LC) has at most gotten 3 hours per day and some of those so called "online classes" are teachers that basically just said to and I quote "work away on your own and keep studying for the exams"

So dont give me this crap they are doing their jobs and working from home.

They arent doing a tap..they are doing as little as possible and taking full wages. Put them all on PUP unless they prove they are doing a full days work...that will get them back into the schools quicker than any negotiations.

Typical public servants - we all lose our jobs and salaries and they get to sit at home doing **** all and getting paid for it.

Boils my blood!!!

/Rant over.

Ladies and gentlemen this is a mod, not a mod for this thread but this is the attitude shown by some on here. No wonder some feel they can get away with saying what they do when this is what a mod says.

Icyseanfitz · 22-01-2021 02:41PM

You would have fixed this whole "one school doing nothing, the other working properly"......... If the government had put a national remote plan in place.

Summer2020 · 22-01-2021 02:41PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen this is a mod, not a mod for this thread but this is the attitude shown by some on here. No wonder some feel they can get away with saying what they do when this is what a mod says.

Agree. An outrageous rant full of bluster and bitterness against teachers.

Hellrazer · 22-01-2021 02:44PM

CapriciousOne wrote: »

Anecdotal and tarring a whole cohort with the same brush. Very poor post from a mod.

Im not a mod in this forum so you are completely out of order on that one.

Also Im speaking of a father of 3 secondary school kids who personally has seen none of his children getting what they were promised in the way of "online classes"

You really need to learn what anecdotal means.

Icyseanfitz · 22-01-2021 02:46PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im not a mod in this forum so you are completely out of order on that one.

Also Im speaking of a father of 3 secondary school kids who personally has seen none of his children getting what they were promised in the way of "online classes"

You really need to learn what anecdotal means.

So maybe aim that vitriol where its deserved and not at educators.

All our students have 3-4 live classes a day, our sen students have sna access from 9-4.

Summer2020 · 22-01-2021 02:46PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im not a mod in this forum so you are completely out of order on that one.

Also Im speaking of a father of 3 secondary school kids who personally has seen none of his children getting what they were promised in the way of "online classes"

You really need to learn what anecdotal means.

You let the mask slip there with your rant, showing your bitterness against the public sector “typical public sector workers”...

Unfit to be a mod

CapriciousOne · 22-01-2021 02:49PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im not a mod in this forum so you are completely out of order on that one.

Also Im speaking of a father of 3 secondary school kids who personally has seen none of his children getting what they were promised in the way of "online classes"

You really need to learn what anecdotal means.

Anecdotal - "(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research."

Your post was anecdotal.

Stateofyou · 22-01-2021 02:50PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Teachers arent doing their job from home though.

I have 3 in secondary school - since they were told the schools werent reopening the 1st and 2nd years have has 2 HOURS of online schooling per day despite the school saying that online classes would be in line with their school timetable - last time I checked they were in from 8.30 to 3.30

My 6th year (LC) has at most gotten 3 hours per day and some of those so called "online classes" are teachers that basically just said to and I quote "work away on your own and keep studying for the exams"

So dont give me this crap they are doing their jobs and working from home.

They arent doing a tap..they are doing as little as possible and taking full wages. Put them all on PUP unless they prove they are doing a full days work...that will get them back into the schools quicker than any negotiations.

Typical public servants - we all lose our jobs and salaries and they get to sit at home doing **** all and getting paid for it.

Boils my blood!!!

/Rant over.

Hyperbolic over-generalisation much?

My kids primary teachers are playing a blinder. They have given lesson plans each week, uploaded maths videos to revise and teach new content, Irish lessons are uploaded, mental health activities and family activities are also put up as voluntary. Work is corrected each day and fairly quickly so we can revise anything needed same day. According to a couple of our friends they even correct into the evening as some work comes in later due to family circumstance. They seem to be at it all day...
We also have in the plans 1 live video meeting once a week so they can stay connected to their classmates & teacher, it's a bit of craic for them too (lessons not taught live due to broadband/equipment/time issues). Both my kids had pt meetings this week, last one was today. Both kids have areas identified by their teachers as being advanced in and they are sourcing additional materials to keep them challenged in the weeks ahead.
As far as I'm aware teachers have occasionally met parents outside at the school to hand out readers and other materials including printed out packets.
I could go on a bit more but I just wanted to put some balance out there.

billy_beckham · 22-01-2021 02:51PM

khalessi wrote: »

In October we were not dealing with multiple virulent strains heading out direction, such as B117 etc.

We also didnt have a 40% cut to cleaning budget.

As it stands with the latest strains, a face covering is not enough.

Strains have changed but how to protect from them haven't.. Its the same mantra...

This budget "cut" is BS as far as I'm concerned. Going back in September it was higher to fund installation of screens, mask dispensers, hand sanitisers etc. Obviously this is once off. Once they are there they just need topping up, so allowance per pupil dropped. This is perfectly logical to me.

Supply of whatever mask is required should be easy for schools to source.

22-01-2021 02:57PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

So nphet have made no recent statement regarding the safety of schools.

They haven’t changed their last advice which was schools are relatively safe but the epidemiological situation was such that even with that it wasn’t wise to open

Stateofyou · 22-01-2021 02:58PM

billy_beckham wrote: »

Strains have changed but how to protect from them haven't.. Its the same mantra...

This budget "cut" is BS as far as I'm concerned. Going back in September it was higher to fund installation of screens, mask dispensers, hand sanitisers etc. Obviously this is once off. Once they are there they just need topping up, so allowance per pupil dropped. This is perfectly logical to me.

Supply of whatever mask is required should be easy for schools to source.

Actually, in light of more contagious strains, we do need to change or double our efforts to protect people, especially in those crowded environments. In fact I just heard US Dr. Fauci speaking to that yesterday evening in their press conference.

There may be some once off purchases that were needed, but in light of ventilation being needed coming into the winter months, windows must be open and heating had to stay on longer. I heard many schools including our own absolutely ate through that budget. We should also be increasing measures, I read a great idea the other day about installing purifiers and uv lights that kill the virus (would help with ventilation control).

In my opinion, we should also be looking at masks for primary students. That should be a covered expense as well. And increasing testing/tracing resources.

Icyseanfitz · 22-01-2021 02:58PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Have I hit a nerve with our fearless public servants who think they are doing a great job.
Does the truth hurt much?

How can you be this childish and be a mod, unbelievable.

The truth is that like last lockdown some schools are doing well and some are not, the reason for this is not individual teachers. It is entirely the governments fault for not even considering to put a national remote or hybrid plan in place in the chances of schools having to close again.

Beasty · 22-01-2021 03:01PM

CapriciousOne wrote: »

Anecdotal and tarring a whole cohort with the same brush. Very poor post from a mod.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen this is a mod, not a mod for this thread but this is the attitude shown by some on here. No wonder some feel they can get away with saying what they do when this is what a mod says.

Summer2020 wrote: »

You let the mask slip there with your rant, showing your bitterness against the public sector “typical public sector workers”...

Unfit to be a mod

The poster is not a mod in this forum, and such commentary is entirely inappropriate

Comment on the post? - yes On the poster? - No

khalessi · 22-01-2021 03:03PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

So when will thr circular drop tonight. Or does the DES even do circulars anymore, and just tweet Carl o Brien their story.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/special-schools-may-be-permitted-to-reopen-on-a-voluntary-basis-1.4464671

This leaked to irish times schools maybe permitted to reopen on a voluntary basis.

I thought they were going to wait until decisions were definite

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 22-01-2021 03:04PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

So dont give me this crap they are doing their jobs and working from home.

They arent doing a tap..they are doing as little as possible and taking full wages. Put them all on PUP unless they prove they are doing a full days work...that will get them back into the schools quicker than any negotiations.

Typical public servants - we all lose our jobs and salaries and they get to sit at home doing **** all and getting paid for it.

Boils my blood!!!

/Rant over.

Started so politely.

If you have a problem with your children's schools, pick up the phone and contact them.

You lose credibility when you start making sweeping statements on all public sector workers and start going for the PUP argument.

Stateofyou · 22-01-2021 03:05PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Have I hit a nerve with our fearless public servants who think they are doing a great job.
Does the truth hurt much?

The only nerve that seems to be inflamed here is yours.
Your post comes across as unfairly mocking and derogatory.
Perhaps you should take it up with your kids' teachers instead of taking it out here on people who don't deserve it.

Icyseanfitz · 22-01-2021 03:07PM

khalessi wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/special-schools-may-be-permitted-to-reopen-on-a-voluntary-basis-1.4464671

This leaked to irish times schools maybe permitted to reopen on a voluntary basis.

I thought they were going to wait until decisions were definite

Another half measure to place all the blame on individual schools and teachers if they don't open or if they do open and have a cluster

wirelessdude01 · 22-01-2021 03:07PM

khalessi wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/special-schools-may-be-permitted-to-reopen-on-a-voluntary-basis-1.4464671

This leaked to irish times schools maybe permitted to reopen on a voluntary basis.

I thought they were going to wait until decisions were definite

Next step in the divide and conquer strategy has been unveiled.

khalessi · 22-01-2021 03:08PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Another half measure to place all the blame on individual schools and teachers if they don't open or if they do open and have a cluster

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Next step in the divide and conquer strategy has been unveiled.

Half assed effort

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Comments

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01