Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

billy_beckham

billy_beckham wrote: »

No reply to this point??



I do have children of my own, 2 in fact. As I said, my sons school were operating with windows open full blast. He has to wear a mask, not provided for by the school. My daughter in national school doesn't have to wear a mask, but if the public health advice changes for U12's and she has to wear one, it'll be myself and my wife paying.

The windows in your house bit was an analogy....But shur why not have the heating on full blast, not coming out of teachers pockets so who cares?

Also no reply to testing /tracing point?

40% cut = Fake News..:D

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So who do you think should be providing make to your child(ren)?

You do realise the vast majority of teachers have to buy their own as well.
I previously posted that I was given two, yes two reusable masks and a bottle of bleach.

I use three masks a day during the day.

Pretty clear who...if you bothered to properly read what i said..

wirelessdude01

billy_beckham wrote: »

Pretty clear who...if you bothered to properly read what i said..

I did ask WHO you think SHOULD as it appears that you seem to have an issue with paying for them.

Maybe less with the confused eyes and more attention to what you are replying to would be appropriate.

km79

http://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1352662551880998913

billy_beckham

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

With regards to the windows and heating comments. Not sure of the history of the discussion between both of you but are you are you arguing for Windows to be open or closed?

We've been told that windows need to be open. If you want any warmth in the classroom then the beating had to be on full blast. Yes most of it is probably going straight out the door and windows but without the hearing being on the room would be even colder.

I'm debating .... what I asked earlier was are schools aware of what air changes/hour are needed for the necessary ventilation or is it just open everything?

JP100

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I'm actually pleasently surprised by how well it's going. Great work from the senior kids, putting serious graft in and they love the individual feedback now I have a graphics pad up and running. Breakout rooms are class too! Kids getting way quicker at muting and unmuting, also a plus for interaction. One kid really struggling but a team effort from sna, tutor and me got it sorted and he was brilliant on the calls.

I've found that kids want to stay on sometimes for a minute after just for chats, like they would leaving the class, it's my birthday, got a new dog, whatever......I mostly teach senior higher level maths but youd actually miss their news.

I also like how half the kids have baby yoda, grogu, as their icon, it's gas......one had oprah but didn't know who she was ��

I was really worried with my exam classes but all then training we did and the time we spent getting the kids sorted is really paying off

I think in general schools are doing really well and especially given the lack of planning throughout this pandemic from the Department of Education and their constant lack of support towards schools.

billy_beckham

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I did ask WHO you think SHOULD as it appears that you seem to have an issue with paying for them.

Maybe less with the confused eyes and more attention to what you are replying to would be appropriate.

I have absolutely no issue with paying for them, merely pointing out to another poster who said they should be a covered expense, that in the secondary school my son goes to they are not.

The masks are mandatory in shops etc so its not like they have to be bought just to go to school. Surely teachers have a few lying around too for same purpose?

Lillyfae

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

So what was your positive to take from this weeks online learning as a parent/student/teacher?

As a parent, doing art with my senior infant was brilliant craic. His penmanship is finally coming on and he knows it so he’s much happier knowing his drawings are now recognisable

As a teacher one of my students sent me the most fabulous PM saying that maths is his favourite subject right now. And a teacher told me the ICT support zooms I’m leading are better than any training she has ever done before

That’s my takeaway from week 2!

This is one of the best posts I’ve read. Well done you.

wirelessdude01

billy_beckham wrote: »

I'm debating .... what I asked earlier was are schools aware of what air changes/hour are needed for the necessary ventilation or is it just open everything?

The direction we were initially given was all windows and doors open. Then I think it changed slightly to they need to be opened every 20mins or something similar but realistically to have any air flow they need to be open all the time.

Yes the windows being open all the time along with the heating on full blast is a waste of money but we've seen posters on this and previous incarnations of the thread screaming blue murder over windows not being opened and then others screaming blue murder over the windows being open and their children being cold. Rock, hard place, stuck comes to mind.

Beasty

Icyseanfitz's threadban lifted

wirelessdude01

billy_beckham wrote: »

I have absolutely no issue with paying for them, merely pointing out to another poster who said they should be a covered expense, that in the secondary school my son goes to they are not.

The masks are mandatory in shops etc so its not like they have to be bought just to go to school. Surely teachers have a few lying around too for same purpose?

I have my school masks and then my general usage masks. Guessing i've about 30 or so masks. 3 a day in school as I change at small break and then again at lunch break.

BonsaiKitten

billy_beckham wrote: »

I have absolutely no issue with paying for them, merely pointing out to another poster who said they should be a covered expense, that in the secondary school my son goes to they are not.

The masks are mandatory in shops etc so its not like they have to be bought just to go to school. Surely teachers have a few lying around too for same purpose?

They aren't covered by the school because you're a responsible parent and you ensure that your kid always has clean masks. Every school has the few ludramans who won't do it. So there does need to be at least a bit of provision for that.

mirrorwall14

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I'm actually pleasently surprised by how well it's going. Great work from the senior kids, putting serious graft in and they love the individual feedback now I have a graphics pad up and running. Breakout rooms are class too! Kids getting way quicker at muting and unmuting, also a plus for interaction. One kid really struggling but a team effort from sna, tutor and me got it sorted and he was brilliant on the calls.

I've found that kids want to stay on sometimes for a minute after just for chats, like they would leaving the class, it's my birthday, got a new dog, whatever......I mostly teach senior higher level maths but youd actually miss their news.

I also like how half the kids have baby yoda, grogu, as their icon, it's gas......one had oprah but didn't know who she was ��

I was really worried with my exam classes but all then training we did and the time we spent getting the kids sorted is really paying off

Some of the icons are too funny. The juniors are much more likely to have them changed!

Some kids have really come out of their shell, I’ve had more comments by one particular maths student in the last two weeks than they’ve made in all the time I’ve had them. I recognise his voice even without looking up to see who’s speaking to me (I’d be writing on the iPad). Online learning is working wonderfully for him at least.

Stateofyou

billy_beckham wrote: »

I have absolutely no issue with paying for them, merely pointing out to another poster who said they should be a covered expense, that in the secondary school my son goes to they are not.

The masks are mandatory in shops etc so its not like they have to be bought just to go to school. Surely teachers have a few lying around too for same purpose?

But really what it's about is you said the budget issue is a "red herring." I gave my reasons and examples for why it is not.

The reason I said schools should provide at least some masks is because we are dealing with kids here. I have them, you have them, we know what it's like. That's why we have carried around spare set of clothes for them for ages, or had to think ahead to how they might handle certain situations. And in light of that, things are going to happen to masks during the day. Break, get lost, forgotten, get soiled etc. And schools would need to provide replacement single use masks at least so that safety protocols are still adhered to. That's really what I'm saying.

Stateofyou

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The direction we were initially given was all windows and doors open. Then I think it changed slightly to they need to be opened every 20mins or something similar but realistically to have any air flow they need to be open all the time.

Yes the windows being open all the time along with the heating on full blast is a waste of money but we've seen posters on this and previous incarnations of the thread screaming blue murder over windows not being opened and then others screaming blue murder over the windows being open and their children being cold. Rock, hard place, stuck comes to mind.

Do you know if there isn't actually a Health and Safety requirement that workplaces (or even one specifically for schools/children) that the temperature in the room be at a certain level?

Qwertyminger

In my school if the temperature is consistently under 14°C we get a store heater now.

It used to be that we'd put everyone into one room to try and get the temperature up

wirelessdude01

Stateofyou wrote: »

Do you know if there isn't actually a Health and Safety requirement that workplaces (or even one specifically for schools/children) that the temperature in the room be at a certain level?

I do know that there is an INTO directive that the room temperature needs to be I think 16degrees or above by 11am(I think).

Obviously it's just ignored as a prefab will never reach that during winter and will be far far warmer during the early autumn/easy summer period!!

am_zarathustra

Stateofyou wrote: »

But really what it's about is you said the budget issue is a "red herring." I gave my reasons and examples for why it is not.

The reason I said schools should provide at least some masks is because we are dealing with kids here. I have them, you have them, we know what it's like. That's why we have carried around spare set of clothes for them for ages, or had to think ahead to how they might handle certain situations. And in light of that, things are going to happen to masks during the day. Break, get lost, get soiled etc. And schools would need to provide replacement single use masks at least so that safety protocols are still adhered to. That's really what I'm saying.

Also if you are in a DEIS school 20/30% of kids don't have them, because they don't really have actively adults in their lives providing them. We go through a shocking amount a week. There are a wide varieties of school environments. Your kids are lucky to have parents who are invested, not everyone is. Provision of laptop for disadvantaged kids would also have helped.

There is no stardisation in schools in ireland, if you've been in a few you'd know this. One size doesn't fit all. That's why special schools aren't open, they tried to just wave a wand whereas a huge amount of care will need to be taken with divvy out resources. What kids are the priority for the SET, how many students is the right amount given each child's needs, what level of ppe is required for each level of care? How is ventilation achieved if students have muscular or nervous issues that effect their circulation? Can multiple people be carried of the bus by the same driver? Windows open in the bus or van? And a hundred more......it's hardly surprising they couldn't say hey presto and open.....the scary thing is they thought they could

As I've always said, it was doable but it was always going to take time to figure it out and make sure everyone felt comfortable, that the correct safety measure were in place and that there would be a unifomity of approach.....announcing things and lying about the level of consultation was wreakless

tom1ie

Hi all,
Just wondering what sort of remote learning people’s children are receiving now?
In my experience it seems to be a lot more organised this time and I get a video every morning via seesaw with instructions on work thatI have to teach my 6 year old.
The video also shows pronunciation of Irish words, digraphs, etc etc.
There is one zoom call for 30 mins a week and then an assembly zoom call for both my 6 and 8 year old for 20 mins.
I have to be in the room for both calls.
I thought this was decent enough until I was talking to a couple of the lads on WhatsApp earlier.
One who is getting the same setup as me, but he’s not happy, and expects live classes for 40 mins in the morning and the same in the afternoon.
The other friend is a primary school teacher who is doing small live classes every day, multiple videos every day with work to do.
Work then gets submitted on seesaw and is corrected and sent back. (We have the work via seesaw with comments given by teacher but no live classes bar the one zoom call).
What are other people’s experiences?

wirelessdude01

tom1ie wrote: »

Hi all,
Just wondering what sort of remote learning people’s children are receiving now?
In my experience it seems to be a lot more organised this time and I get a video every morning via seesaw with instructions on work thatI have to teach my 6 year old.
The video also shows pronunciation of Irish words, digraphs, etc etc.
There is one zoom call for 30 mins a week and then an assembly zoom call for both my 6 and 8 year old for 20 mins.
I have to be in the room for both calls.
I thought this was decent enough until I was talking to a couple of the lads on WhatsApp earlier.
One who is getting the same setup as me, but he’s not happy, and expects live classes for 40 mins in the morning and the same in the afternoon.
The other friend is a primary school teacher who is doing small live classes every day, multiple videos every day with work to do.
Work then gets submitted on seesaw and is corrected and sent back. (We have the work via seesaw with comments given by teacher but no live classes bar the one zoom call).
What are other people’s experiences?

Pretty much all the scenarios that you listed above have been mentioned on here.

The question you have to ask yourself, are you children happy? That's the most important thing. Then a secondary question would be, are your children happy with their schooling? Not you, your children.

Your teacher friend, what class does he have?

Like I have 6th, my class are mostly self sufficient and as such require little or no parental support to join our daily zoom calls, access video tutorials and upload stuff to me.

I couldn't see how a teacher in the junior end could do what I am.

tom1ie

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Pretty much all the scenarios that you listed above have been mentioned on here.

The question you have to ask yourself, are you children happy? That's the most important thing. Then a secondary question would be, are your children happy with their schooling? Not you, your children.

Your teacher friend, what class does he have?

Like I have 6th, my class are mostly self sufficient and as such require little or no parental support to join our daily zoom calls, access video tutorials and upload stuff to me.

I couldn't see how a teacher in the junior end could do what I am.

Yeah he’s 5th so that’d be what 10 year old approx?

I think what your saying is of course correct but you have to bring on how the interaction with two parents who both have to wfh comes into this aswell.
I would really welcome a live 40 min class in the morning and afternoon once or twice a week, even just for the oldest one.

Smacruairi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Pretty much all the scenarios that you listed above have been mentioned on here.

The question you have to ask yourself, are you children happy? That's the most important thing. Then a secondary question would be, are your children happy with their schooling? Not you, your children.

"Regular engagement with pupils/students: It is important that teachers engage with
their pupils/students; in a primary setting this should, ideally, be on a daily basis; in
a post-primary context teachers should, as far as possible, engage with students as
per the normal school timetable."

This is the problem. This is what the DES came up with after 10 months. How you achieve consistency from child to child let alone class to class, to school to school, I dunno. Everyone wants something different, and that's the issue,it needed clear expectations set for everyone and then discuss with all parties. Instead they did nothing at all.

To be fair, I'm secondary, and like 90% of teachers I know at my level are just doing live timetables as best as they can.

Primary should try to do a call at least once a day in my opinion, though the issue is that parents are meant to be in the room for all calls which can be tricky too if parent isn't around. Defo should be prerecorded stuff too in my opinion,though I hear primary have really gotten into that as of late.

downthemiddle

I know of a principal in a large urban school who spent the day delivering workpacks to children who are unable to engage with online learning.
Amongst the households they visited were a family where the parent has mental health issues and addiction issues, a family of five where the parents don't speak English, the family of a healthcare worker where the parent has to isolate from the child because the child is high risk, the home of a convicted drug dealer who is Covid positive all topped off by a member of a minority community who was having a panic attack in front of her young son. The principal stayed with the mother for over an hour until help arrived.
But holidays, lazy teachers who don't care etc.

Loafing Oaf

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1352662551880998913

I don't believe the schools will be opening on February 1, but I don't see how this makes it any more definite.

Str8outtaWuhan

Stateofyou wrote: »

Do you know if there isn't actually a Health and Safety requirement that workplaces (or even one specifically for schools/children) that the temperature in the room be at a certain level?

16 C

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/General_Application_Regulations/gen_apps_workplace.pdf

wirelessdude01

Smacruairi wrote: »

"Regular engagement with pupils/students: It is important that teachers engage with
their pupils/students; in a primary setting this should, ideally, be on a daily basis; in
a post-primary context teachers should, as far as possible, engage with students as
per the normal school timetable."

This is the problem. This is what the DES came up with after 10 months. How you achieve consistency from child to child let alone class to class, to school to school, I dunno. Everyone wants something different, and that's the issue,it needed clear expectations set for everyone and then discuss with all parties. Instead they did nothing at all.

To be fair, I'm secondary, and like 90% of teachers I know at my level are just doing live timetables as best as they can.

Primary should try to do a call at least once a day in my opinion, though the issue is that parents are meant to be in the room for all calls which can be tricky too if parent isn't around. Defo should be prerecorded stuff too in my opinion,though I hear primary have really gotten into that as of late.

Similar to the new JC, totally up to interpretation.

We all were shouting for a common framework which sets expectations for all involved in this, students, parents and teachers. Instead you see some of the Instagram teachers doing more than they actually would during a standard school day, all of them doing their best to outdo each other with what they are achieving. Then you have us, who are trying our best to try and engage our pupils and keep them progressing along or bringing them towards mocks/proper exams and then of course you have the small lazy subset who will try to do as little as possible. The lazy as possible subset, probably use the likes of Aladdin to set work and send an email a day to cover their ar$es(maybe not even that).

That doesn't even allow for some parents who think that their child should get one to one teaching and don't realise that the vast majority majority of us are drowning under various seesaw, teams, classroom and email notifications.

Norma played this all perfectly. All the pupils, parents and school personnel are all pitted against each other with no common consensus, having a go at each other. All the while Norma sits in her ivory tower laughing at all us idiots for not directing our ollective ire at those who abdicated from their role in leading.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't believe the schools will be opening on February 1, but I don't see how this makes it any more definite.

I'd put my house on them trying to get 6th years and SEN in on Feb 1

uli84

Will schools be willing to allow the kid to repeat the year if a PARENT feels it’s needed (?)

Smacruairi

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'd put my house on them trying to get 6th years and SEN in on Feb 1

The pair of them need a win at this stage. Norma is now a meme, and Madigan, who fancied herself as a shrewd operator, is now being exposed for the vacuous blouse she is. Her past comments and campaigns are all being dredged up, and she needs to come out with something concrete.

How Harris has managed to avoid any scrutiny of his role with 3rd level is amazing actually.

History Queen

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I'd put my house on them trying to get 6th years and SEN in on Feb 1

Maybe not Feb 1st but probably this side of midterm. If the daily numbers would go down I think a lot of teachers would be happy to go back, or at least that's what my circle are saying.

brookers

tom1ie wrote: »

Hi all,
Just wondering what sort of remote learning people’s children are receiving now?
In my experience it seems to be a lot more organised this time and I get a video every morning via seesaw with instructions on work thatI have to teach my 6 year old.
The video also shows pronunciation of Irish words, digraphs, etc etc.
There is one zoom call for 30 mins a week and then an assembly zoom call for both my 6 and 8 year old for 20 mins.
I have to be in the room for both calls.
I thought this was decent enough until I was talking to a couple of the lads on WhatsApp earlier.
One who is getting the same setup as me, but he’s not happy, and expects live classes for 40 mins in the morning and the same in the afternoon.
The other friend is a primary school teacher who is doing small live classes every day, multiple videos every day with work to do.
Work then gets submitted on seesaw and is corrected and sent back. (We have the work via seesaw with comments given by teacher but no live classes bar the one zoom call).
What are other people’s experiences?

Too much, why would you bring that kind of stress into your lives, we are in a global pandemic, not competing for the nobel peace prize, your children will get to university, they will get great jobs and have a huge mortgage and we will all be old and frail. It is a few short months out of their long lives. We didnt stay for the second call today or yesterday, we headed to the beach, the sun was shining and they got their feet wet, the waves were fantastic, hopefully they will turn out to be well adjusted adults. I know another parent and their kids jumped into a lake today, got soaking wet and went home all soggy in the car.