Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Crocodile Booze

daheff wrote: »

Nobody wants to make anybody unemployed.
.

Tell that to the posters who keep Fecking PUPping every few pages.

billy_beckham

Stateofyou wrote: »

Actually, in light of more contagious strains, we do need to change or double our efforts to protect people, especially in those crowded environments. In fact I just heard US Dr. Fauci speaking to that yesterday evening in their press conference.

There may be some once off purchases that were needed, but in light of ventilation being needed coming into the winter months, windows must be open and heating had to stay on longer. I heard many schools including our own absolutely ate through that budget. We should also be increasing measures, I read a great idea the other day about installing purifiers and uv lights that kill the virus (would help with ventilation control).

In my opinion, we should also be looking at masks for primary students. That should be a covered expense as well. And increasing testing/tracing resources.

Well I heard our CMO saying during the week that although the strain has changed how to behave hadn't, the basics are still the same. But seems the HSE advice doesn't fit the teaching agenda.

So windows open and heating on .....not very clever. Have schools any idea of what air changes per hour is necessary? Don't think the 1 my son used to attend does.. Everything open full blast... If you were at home would you open all the windows and doors and have the heating on full?

On your last point, if the kids had to wear masks the parents would pay. If test/tracing was to be changed it wouldn't be the school paying for that either.

Budget cut is red herring!

St.Spodo

Right throughout the pandemic, our responses to the crisis have been characterised by underestimations the problem we are facing. In March 2020, we thought it would be fine to allow international travel involving people coming and going from mass gathering events here and abroad. In the summer up to September, we thought we had a template for living with the virus, which ended up being blown out of the water as we went on to spend 4 of the next 5 months in total lockdown. In December, we thought it would be fine to have a largely normal Christmas because we'd had a hard year and deserved it. Now, we are being primed for a return to schools with a rate of covid that is 35 times higher than it was in September and a strain that is 50-60% more transmissible because "schools are by their nature, safe environments". I see no reason why this move won't turn out to be another public health disaster, another act of fatally misplaced optimism. In this context, I would advise any teachers, SNAs and other school staff, particularly those with underlying conditions and who have high risk families, partners, etc to continue to exercise great scepticism about any kind of assurances that are made from this government.

Stateofyou

Hellrazer wrote: »

As I said Ive obviously hit a nerve here considering the reaction to my previous rant - anyone that reacted care to let us know if you are involved in the education of our children???

I was only saying what a lot of people are thinking.

I have my opinion and you have yours. I see no evidence of my childrens schools doing anything to help my children out especially my young lad in leaving cert or even give any sense of normality with online schooling.

Im sick of hearing about the poor teachers. They are paid to do a job and if they arent doing that job they should be put on the PUP like the rest of the country.

Mind you I have said the same about other public servants aswell so Im not just picking on the teachers.

I am a parent. Have we got that out of the way for you?

You can only speak for yourself, so let others do the same.

And I see plenty of evidence from my kids school that they are playing a blinder teaching from home. They're called anecdotes. But if I had a problem with the level of teaching received, I would take it up with their teachers instead of attacking the brilliant and hard-working teachers here, of which a HANDFUL of them have offered their individual help publicly on this thread to other posters as well as over pm. I've even been sent a powerpoint of a months worth of Irish work from a regular poster here, complete with translations for my children that we are using right now. I think your posts are totally out of order and unfair to the posters here.

It's clear youre angry. You've labelled yourself as having a rant. So if YOUR kids' teachers aren't doing what feel they are paid for, what has that got to do with anyone here and the derogatory way you are speaking to them.

Smacruairi

daheff wrote: »

but that if they were faced with a cut in wages that their stance may change.

Yeah that's illegal, you can't just threaten to Dock wages when you've a contract, and you're carrying out your duties.
Do you not think that Norma would have tried that already at this stage!? She's done everything else she pissed off absolutely everyone like.

It's just disappointing that yet again someone came on to have a rant about thr education sector, goaded people who bit, massively derailing the thread and here we are again, spinning wheels rather than any type of constructive posting. It's exactly the type of thing the DES has been criticised for doing over and over again.

Look. Forward to the circular at 9:32 tonight.

khalessi

daheff wrote: »

Nobody wants to make anybody unemployed.

the point being made is that some people don't feel teachers are too eager to get back to classroom teaching, but that if they were faced with a cut in wages that their stance may change.

Yes a feeling but no statisical evidence other than teachers are working from home.

As a matter of interest should I suggest my gp is put on pup. I cant see him working as he is only seeing people over the phone?

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Was it just me who understood previous instructions from one of the mods who moderates in here meant that mention of PUP, cutting teacher pay and the likes was banned and it was just said to flame things?

Did I just misunderstand that?

That’s what I understood but I see it hasn’t been implemented in that particular instance so I must have misunderstood.

Mrsmum

khalessi wrote: »

Yes a feeling but no statisical evidence other than teachers are working from home.

As a matter of interest should I suggest my gp is put on pup. I cant see him working as he is only seeing people over the phone?

That's not exactly true. GPs are seeing people that need to be seen. My nephew had his appendix out this year - seen by gp. My husband had a tetanus injection - gp. Someone else I know has severe depression - seen by gp three times in two weeks. Not that teachers should be on pup as they are obviously working. Just I've seen this written about GPs many times here and it's not the truth.

am_zarathustra

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s what I understood but I see it hasn’t been implemented in that particular instance so I must have misunderstood.

Jesus I was in live class all day, grabbing my lunch now.....are wireless and them banned?

This devolved. Kids are doing great, just off 2 1/2 hours with my LCs (I teach 2 subjects), they are flying it. I'm not sure if I was put on PUP they'd be able to teach themselves applications of calculas

BonsaiKitten

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s what I understood but I see it hasn’t been implemented in that particular instance so I must have misunderstood.

Same here, I must need help with the aul reading comprehension. Maybe under Norma's grand plan my school SET would have me in too!

Beasty

Following my earlier warnings I have been in discussion with all the threadbanned posters

History Queen's threadban is lifted

To everyone, discuss the underlying topic, and not other users or moderation or indeed anything else that derails the thread. If you have an issue with a post or poster report it and we will deal with it as we see appropriate. If you are not happy with our action or inaction PM one of the mods and we can discuss it privately

If I can get assurances from the other threadbanned users that they will follow this instruction their threadbans will also be lifted

penny piper

Hellrazer wrote: »

Teachers arent doing their job from home though.

I have 3 in secondary school - since they were told the schools werent reopening the 1st and 2nd years have has 2 HOURS of online schooling per day despite the school saying that online classes would be in line with their school timetable - last time I checked they were in from 8.30 to 3.30

My 6th year (LC) has at most gotten 3 hours per day and some of those so called "online classes" are teachers that basically just said to and I quote "work away on your own and keep studying for the exams"

So dont give me this crap they are doing their jobs and working from home.

They arent doing a tap..they are doing as little as possible and taking full wages. Put them all on PUP unless they prove they are doing a full days work...that will get them back into the schools quicker than any negotiations.

Typical public servants - we all lose our jobs and salaries and they get to sit at home doing **** all and getting paid for it.

Boils my blood!!!

/Rant over.

You have a very nasty attitude....my children are two secondary teachers and I see them working online very hard trying to help their students (just like the majority of teachers)....Just because you have /your children have had a poor experience it doesn't mean every other student in the country is experiencing the same....contact your school/complain.....

Regarding giving pup payments...that is for people who cannot do their job online or otherwise......teachers can/are working remotely.....

am_zarathustra

penny piper wrote: »

You have a very nasty attitude....my children are two secondary teachers and I see them working online very hard trying to help their students (just like the majority of teachers)....Just because you have /your children have had a poor experience it doesn't mean every other student in the country is experiencing the same....contact your school/complain.....

Regarding giving pup payments...that is for people who cannot do their job online or otherwise......teachers can/are working remotely.....

Report these teachers to management. Every job has people who skive off, report them and ask for more interaction. Email the principal and if that doesn't work, contact the BOM

Don't tar everyone with the same brush! Plenty of teachers doing their jobs

TTLF

On the topic, my online schooling has been great! Only complaints would be how its taught online rather than the actual timetable.

For example, I'm excelling in Maths, History, English and Business because we're kept busy with interesting questions and assignments to keep us ticking over, not tons of learning, but it's not the same thing everyday.

In Maths we're learning through an interactive whiteboard. I'm in OL maths (only OL subject though) and its fun being shown what to do, asking questions and learning.

Compare this to say, Geography, ironically my favourite subject, which I'm dreading to go to each class because it's painstakingly boring watching my teacher read off the slides and try ask us oral questions where I panic and forget the answer. Then the homework being to read the entire chapter, highlight and make my own notes to be checked 2-3 days later over Classroom. It's the worst. Funnily enough she teaches very well in a classroom environment and I average a H1 since I retain the info very well in class, but online I don 't think I've really retained anything honestly.

I think some people just can't teach properly online due to circumstances and it sucks to see my teacher struggling with her 2 younger kids in the background and her really laggy poor wifi where she's cutting out a good bit.

helpful

daheff wrote: »

Nobody wants to make anybody unemployed.

the point being made is that some people don't feel teachers are too eager to get back to classroom teaching, but that if they were faced with a cut in wages that their stance may change.

As judge Judy says if you want to talk about how you feel talk to Dr Phil. This should not be a conversation about how people “feel” teachers are doing working from home. In the midst of a global pandemic everyone is trying their hardest.
Yes it’s awful that SEN children are regressing but it’s better than dying or getting critically ill and needing an ICU bed that just isn’t there.
My brother in law has been working from home since last March and I know he doesn’t do the hours he’s paid for because between staff they have worked out a system that there is always someone doing the work and everyone gets an extra hour off etc.
This is not happening in my job nor would I want it to but people judging every teacher on the basis that one or two they know aren’t doing what they consider enough is wrong.
There is absolutely no plan in place from the government on how to teach online. From reading this thread alone some are happy some are not that’s just life. Bashing your child’s teacher won’t help. I have seen posts on Facebook about the same and often wonder if those people know that their child’s teacher might see them.
Putting every teacher on €350 to not do anything would just mean that there was absolutely nothing happening for any child and where would we be then?

Smacruairi

TTLF wrote: »

On the topic, my online schooling has been great! Only complaints would be how its taught online rather than the actual timetable.

For example, I'm excelling in Maths, History, English and Business because we're kept busy with interesting questions and assignments to keep us ticking over, not tons of learning, but it's not the same thing everyday.

In Maths we're learning through an interactive whiteboard. I'm in OL maths (only OL subject though) and its fun being shown what to do, asking questions and learning.

Compare this to say, Geography, ironically my favourite subject, which I'm dreading to go to each class because it's painstakingly boring watching my teacher read off the slides and try ask us oral questions where I panic and forget the answer. Then the homework being to read the entire chapter, highlight and make my own notes to be checked 2-3 days later over Classroom. It's the worst. Funnily enough she teaches very well in a classroom environment and I average a H1 since I retain the info very well in class, but online I don 't think I've really retained anything honestly.

I think some people just can't teach properly online due to circumstances and it sucks to see my teacher struggling with her 2 younger kids in the background and her really laggy poor wifi where she's cutting out a good bit.

It's actually a pain as a teacher to do certain things. Doing grammar in class can be boring as, but online it's easier because you can see everyone's answers in real time if you set it up that way. Conversely literature can be great in class but doing it online is a chore as you don't get the same discussions.

Don't be afraid to politely offer your teacher advice at the end. "miss could we maybe use x on Monday, it makes it a bit easier". 90% of time the teacher will be glad to get feedback and to try something else, and ask a colleague. When you're teaching inti the ether with just silence, it's hard to know how you're getting on, whereas in clasd you can see if someone is bored, or not getting it etc.

Beasty

mirrorwall14's threadban lifted - that's one that was not warranting a threadban in the first place - my apologies for hitting you in the crossfire

FishOnABike

TheValeyard wrote: »

My kids creche was one of these. One wobbler infected five kids and two staff, and then my kid infected me.

But, but, but.... schools are safe, kids don't get it, but if they do they don't get it nearly as bad and kids aren't likely to transmit it..... Norma told us. It must be true. :rolleyes:

Stateofyou

billy_beckham wrote: »

So windows open and heating on .....not very clever. Have schools any idea of what air changes per hour is necessary? Don't think the 1 my son used to attend does.. Everything open full blast... If you were at home would you open all the windows and doors and have the heating on full?

On your last point, if the kids had to wear masks the parents would pay. If test/tracing was to be changed it wouldn't be the school paying for that either.

Budget cut is red herring!

No, it's not very clever is it. But it's what has to be done in order to keep warmth in the classroom because the buildings mostly aren't fit for purpose with proper ventilation systems nor updated technology such as uv lights or air filtration devices.

But, luckily we're at home in our own bubbles so why would I need to open my windows at home with the heating on. I'm not teaching 30 students from my kitchen.

Have you kids of your own, or do you work with kids? Both my kids went to school with masks this year, as a small handful of others did as well. They each had a change in case the other one became dirty or too wet, etc. A couple times they've been lost or both got ruined (leaked water bottle in two instances). So at the very least, masks would need to be provided by the school to replace ones worn in the inevitability that kids will need a replacement.

Budget cut is not a red herring.

TTLF

Smacruairi wrote: »

It's actually a pain as a teacher to do certain things. Doing grammar in class can be boring as, but online it's easier because you can see everyone's answers in real time if you set it up that way. Conversely literature can be great in class but doing it online is a chore as you don't get the same discussions.

Don't be afraid to politely offer your teacher advice at the end. "miss could we maybe use x on Monday, it makes it a bit easier". 90% of time the teacher will be glad to get feedback and to try something else, and ask a colleague. When you're teaching inti the ether with just silence, it's hard to know how you're getting on, whereas in clasd you can see if someone is bored, or not getting it etc.

It's good advice but super awkward to ask personally since classes are silent. (I'm not sure why it is, but I get a weird feeling in my stomach when I think about it, like it's embarrassing for some reason?) I'm not really sure what else we could do right now to make it better because our field study is once again going to be postponed and we've just been going over the non-indepth chapters of Coastal and Glaciation for short questions.

My teacher knows we're trying to learn, but I think about 40-50% of the class don't do the homework, or if it is done, its rushed and at a poor standard. She constantly calls out students in calls asking for their homework to be submitted lol.

I think she's on a tight ship because she's two kids seemingly under 6 and a really crappy laptop/poor broadband she's working with (I've had to help her with her laptop tech issues in class a lot because she isn't a techy person.) We ask her to put up the PowerPoint on classroom so we can go through it ourselves, I think at this point I would learn it better reading it myself and watching videos to get an idea. We're being tested on it probably next week or the week after but I think the idea behind that test is that we'd be in school, which doesn't look likely.

I really wanted to do the field study in the mountains too, I love taking photos up there when I visit and it would've been an epic trip, and my only trip of final year.

FishOnABike

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

An announcement on the leaving cert is long overdue. It's quite frankly ridiculous that kids who missed a sizeable chunk of last year and this year are going to be asked to sit an exam that they can't possibly be prepared for.

I'm not sure if the continuous assessment model is the best way to go, but surely for this years LC students it's the only show in town.

This year's LC students are in a worse position than last year's.

It is a damning indictment on the Department of Education and Skills and on the minister that proper contingency plans were not put in place and the school year structured so that either a traditional LC exam or some form of continuous assessment / improved predictive grade system were both possible, with all schools having a common approach, equally prepared and it being equally possible to do one or the other depending on circumstances at the time.

Instead we have a department and minister that appear to have stuck their head in the sand for the last year and utterly failed to prepare for circumstances which were clearly possible and predictable.

As a result we now have a department and minister who are pig headedly trying to force through plan A, which a blind man could see is not realistic, because the department and minister have no plan B.

There should have been a plan B running in parallel from the start of this academic year to give flexibility to adapt to circumstances. Even trying to play catch up with a belated plan B at this stage would now be a poor second to what it could have been. The lack of forward planning on the behalf of the department and the minister in this is beyond incompetence.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Just out of last online lesson for the day.

Students in great form and know there's not much they can do about all the uncertainty. We'll continue to get our work done and deal with announcements as they arise.

Great to see how they've adapted to all this.

Very little of what I've ever read here, or seen on Prime Time, reflects the reality I'd see in an online learning environment or when we're in the building.

Students having a bit of fun, bit of teasing each other, figuring out a few new platforms to learn or test the class etc. Just a nice atmosphere. Lucky they lack the bitterness that seems so common in adults.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Smacruairi

Yeah if she's stressed you obvs don't want to push her over the edge alright. Even a little email then just to say "hey thanks for x, it might help if we did y". As I always say to my lads from ty on - the senior cycle years are also about learning to get what you want and need from ppl in higher up roles than you. Negotiating with someone who has all the power is an important skill, and mammy will only make it worse!

If you want to dm me about best approach, fire away. When working as a year head etc ive often had to offer advice to a colleague up against it.

mirrorwall14

My second years refused to get off the call today they were too busy asking questions I had to practically boot them off. The fifth years only four of them bother answering. They’re going to get the land of their life on Monday because I’m sick of talking to myself so I have a PLAN lol.

So what was your positive to take from this weeks online learning as a parent/student/teacher?

As a parent, doing art with my senior infant was brilliant craic. His penmanship is finally coming on and he knows it so he’s much happier knowing his drawings are now recognisable

As a teacher one of my students sent me the most fabulous PM saying that maths is his favourite subject right now. And a teacher told me the ICT support zooms I’m leading are better than any training she has ever done before

That’s my takeaway from week 2!

jimmytwotimes 2013

Breakout rooms, on whatever platform you're on, are a good way to get students to talk as there would be only 2/3 per room. They open up a bit more then, once I assign a task or online quiz I'd arrange breakout rooms to chat to them.

mirrorwall14

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Breakout rooms, on whatever platform you're on, are a good way to get students to talk as there would be only 2/3 per room. They open up a bit more then, once I assign a task or online quiz I'd arrange breakout rooms to chat to them.

Yeah unfortunately we haven’t got the enterprise google meet so there’s only the truly horrible looking extension for chrome to manually create meetings.

But I’m going to try both the jam board and spiral.ac to get them responding next week. I particularly like that spiral responses can be anonymous because they will be braver then

am_zarathustra

I'm actually pleasently surprised by how well it's going. Great work from the senior kids, putting serious graft in and they love the individual feedback now I have a graphics pad up and running. Breakout rooms are class too! Kids getting way quicker at muting and unmuting, also a plus for interaction. One kid really struggling but a team effort from sna, tutor and me got it sorted and he was brilliant on the calls.

I've found that kids want to stay on sometimes for a minute after just for chats, like they would leaving the class, it's my birthday, got a new dog, whatever......I mostly teach senior higher level maths but youd actually miss their news.

I also like how half the kids have baby yoda, grogu, as their icon, it's gas......one had oprah but didn't know who she was ��

I was really worried with my exam classes but all then training we did and the time we spent getting the kids sorted is really paying off

billy_beckham

billy_beckham wrote: »

Well I heard our CMO saying during the week that although the strain has changed how to behave hadn't, the basics are still the same. But seems the HSE advice doesn't fit the teaching agenda.

No reply to this point??

Stateofyou wrote: »

No, it's not very clever is it. But it's what has to be done in order to keep warmth in the classroom because the buildings mostly aren't fit for purpose with proper ventilation systems nor updated technology such as uv lights or air filtration devices.

But, luckily we're at home in our own bubbles so why would I need to open my windows at home with the heating on. I'm not teaching 30 students from my kitchen.

Have you kids of your own, or do you work with kids? Both my kids went to school with masks this year, as a small handful of others did as well. They each had a change in case the other one became dirty or too wet, etc. A couple times they've been lost or both got ruined (leaked water bottle in two instances). So at the very least, masks would need to be provided by the school to replace ones worn in the inevitability that kids will need a replacement.

Budget cut is not a red herring.

I do have children of my own, 2 in fact. As I said, my sons school were operating with windows open full blast. He has to wear a mask, not provided for by the school. My daughter in national school doesn't have to wear a mask, but if the public health advice changes for U12's and she has to wear one, it'll be myself and my wife paying.

The windows in your house bit was an analogy....But shur why not have the heating on full blast, not coming out of teachers pockets so who cares?

Also no reply to testing /tracing point?

40% cut = Fake News..:D

Beasty

wirelessdude01's threadban lifted

wirelessdude01

billy_beckham wrote: »

No reply to this point??



I do have children of my own, 2 in fact. As I said, my sons school were operating with windows open full blast. He has to wear a mask, not provided for by the school. My daughter in national school doesn't have to wear a mask, but if the public health advice changes for U12's and she has to wear one, it'll be myself and my wife paying.

The windows in your house bit was an analogy....But shur why not have the heating on full blast, not coming out of teachers pockets so who cares?

Also no reply to testing /tracing point?

40% cut = Fake News..:D

So who do you think should be providing masks to your child(ren)?

You do realise the vast majority of teachers have to buy their own as well.
I previously posted that I was given two, yes two reusable masks and a bottle of bleach.

I use three masks a day during the day.

With regards to the windows and heating comments. Not sure of the history of the discussion between both of you but are you are you arguing for Windows to be open or closed?

We've been told that windows need to be open. If you want any warmth in the classroom then the beating had to be on full blast. Yes most of it is probably going straight out the door and windows but without the hearing being on the room would be even colder.