Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

Carazy · 20-01-2021 11:14AM

CapriciousOne wrote: »

Bit hypocritical that.

Government to ignore Nphet advice and allow gastro-pubs and restaurants reopen

This doesn't explain why Unions are refusing to listen to the public health experts? (It shows the government going against it but in this case it is going with the correct approach with the advice)

Stateofyou · 20-01-2021 11:15AM

paddyirish23 wrote: »

And unions, let's give them a pass too while we are at it!
Both sides are to blame here let's be clear about that.

The Unions did their duty for what they are created to do. End of. And too right.

Carazy · 20-01-2021 11:16AM

mariaalice wrote: »

How are special schools in NI open

Teachers and SNA want special schools want to get back, in the main they usually know the children and families very well.

So it must be the unions? or what is going on.

Northern Ireland has schools open.
Teachers want schools open.
SNAs want schools open.
Parents want schools open.
Students want schools open.
Government want schools open.
NPHET say schools are safe.

Unions want schools to remain closed.

Stateofyou · 20-01-2021 11:19AM

jrosen wrote: »

Nepht have the luxury of only thinking about the virus and public health. The government don’t have that luxury. They are trying and often loosing to find a balance. People were up in arms with regular statements being made “give us a Christmas” the government made a decision which wasn’t the right one IMO because it was obvious people would take the piss. Which is Exactly what happens. But let’s not be stupid and lay the blame at the governments door when society played a big roll. The government line did not waver through December. It was still “limit your contacts” yet people didn’t in their droves and here we are. We are all paying for the mistakes of some both society wide and government

Humans are gonna human. Governments should know this. You can't give people an inch, they will take a mile. We aaaallll know this. Including the ones in charge; it was a political and emotional decision full stop. And the wrong one. That's not the only time they've made the wrong decisions for political or economic decisions either. Airports and border, changing definitions of close contacts in school because: agenda, anyone?

jusvi2001 · 20-01-2021 11:19AM

Hope Teachers and SNA's are allowed to keep their full salary.

looks like people working in supermarket, cleaners , drivers and healthcare staff, garda etc are not at risk at all.

Tpcl20 · 20-01-2021 11:22AM

mariaalice wrote: »

How are special schools in NI open

Teachers and SNA want special schools want to get back, in the main they usually know the children and families very well.

So it must be the unions? or what is going on.

https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/112368584/posts/3136638092

As I say, read this article for the detail.

We have provided guidance on how special schools can operate at 50 per cent capacity, to offer these students a return to learning, knowing that the vast majority of these students cannot engage in any way with remote learning.

50 per cent capacity in special schools still requires high levels of mixing in a setting where physical distancing and adequate sanitisation is not possible. Dr Tony Holohan said that when the levels of transmission in the community are high, the risk in all settings increases. While the hospitals are still operating at surge capacity, it is understandable that staff in SEN settings know that it is prudent to wait until they can at least be assured of a test in the event that they come into contact with somebody who has covid, or they can receive medical treatment if they become critically ill.

“We have provided guidance and flexibility in relation to staff members who are at high risk of Covid-19, to ensure their safety. We have put in place flexibility for schools to manage this situation and return to in-person learning over the coming days, to organise and manage their staffing in this context.

It warrants repeating that the announcements about school reopening were all made before any consultations with stakeholders (beyond the instruction to open) actually took place.

“The INTO represents teachers both here and in Northern Ireland. Many schools in the North are currently providing in-person teaching to children with special educational needs. It is regrettable that similar cannot be achieved here.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbzxemJZIc

Also worth noting:

“The Government has sought to agree an approach balancing the need to support our most vulnerable children while addressing the concerns of staff.

A worthy sentiment, but nobody is served by putting those vulnerable children and concerned staff at risk without putting the necessary safeguards in place. It would be a temporary political victory which would undoubtedly go on to have a far-reaching negative impact on many families, as did the secrecy and underhandedness which defined the school terms we have already experienced.

jusvi2001 wrote: »

Hope Teachers and SNA's are allowed to keep their full salary.

looks like people working in supermarket, cleaners , drivers and healthcare staff, garda etc are not at risk at all.

Not comparable settings and also not what's being discussed. It's almost as though you just want to complain about teachers salaries and don't actually care about considering the environment or the children in it.

DraftDodger · 20-01-2021 11:23AM

Foley "Teachers get back in to work, your essential frontline"

Teachers "Great so we'll be getting vaccinated like the other essential front line soon"

Foley " No you are 11th on the list not essential at all"

the corpo · 20-01-2021 11:23AM

Here, one point about NI and the UK keeping their schools open is that... 1600+ people died of Covid in the UK yesterday. Should we really be following any example being set in those jurisdictions...

DraftDodger · 20-01-2021 11:26AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Minister Foley surprisingly vocal this morning , normally she's adept at hiding, she's really not helping her cause, Teaching unions don't accept public health advice? and the real ouch comment, they don't see special needs education as essential?

This is not going to end well, I'm just amazed she's lasted this length of time.

She just keeps digging. I don't think iv'e seen a politician as unable to read the room as her in a generation.

Stateofyou · 20-01-2021 11:26AM

Carazy wrote: »

Northern Ireland has schools open.
Teachers want schools open.
SNAs want schools open.
Parents want schools open.
Students want schools open.
Government want schools open.
NPHET say schools are safe.

Unions want schools to remain closed.

Really poor go at a Haiku :pac:

Carazy · 20-01-2021 11:26AM

the corpo wrote: »

Here, one point about NI and the UK keeping their schools open is that... 1600+ people died of Covid in the UK yesterday. Should we really be following any example being set in those jurisdictions...

Populations and the procedures in place are nowhere near comparable.

Birdy · 20-01-2021 11:28AM

Josepha Madigan just compared it to Mother and baby homes debacle on Claire Byrne.

She is FUMING.

20-01-2021 11:29AM

The unions are not doing themselves any favors in this, especially as the special schools are open in NI.

https://www.rathoreschool.co.uk/ Newry open

https://www.stbrigidsschool.net/. Dundalk closed.

25km distance between each school.

Stateofyou · 20-01-2021 11:30AM

Birdy wrote: »

Josepha Madigan just compared it to Mother and baby homes debacle on Claire Byrne.

She is FUMING.

Spare us the faux outrage. :rolleyes:

CapriciousOne · 20-01-2021 11:30AM

Carazy wrote: »

This doesn't explain why Unions are refusing to listen to the public health experts? (It shows the government going against it but in this case it is going with the correct approach with the advice)

If you attended the webinar that was supposed to allay fears around the "schools are safe" mantra you'd have seen that it in fact did anything but that.

"It was reaffirmed clearly that schools with risk mitigation measures in place provide a safe environment for staff and students."

The above claim in last night's statement is a blatant lie and an attempt to turn the public against those who raised very valid concerns. There was no updated public health advice. The suggested mitigation measures were "wash your hands and wear a mask", and questions/statements suggesting that a lot of SEN kids cannot adhere to these measures were ignored.

Birdy · 20-01-2021 11:30AM

Josepha just said that SNA's cannot work remotely.

BonsaiKitten · 20-01-2021 11:35AM

Birdy wrote: »

Josepha Madigan just compared it to Mother and baby homes debacle on Claire Byrne.

She is FUMING.

Jesus, have they no shame. What an insult to the women and children who suffered in the homes.

20-01-2021 11:38AM

Again can anyone explain how special schools in NI are open are the staff and pupils different there?

byhookorbycrook · 20-01-2021 11:39AM

mariaalice wrote: »

How are special schools in NI open

Teachers and SNA want special schools want to get back, in the main they usually know the children and families very well.

So it must be the unions? or what is going on.

21 special schools in NÍ have had outbreaks . Teachers and SNAs in special educational settings want schools to reopen, once it is safer to do so. INTO and FORSA had agreed in principle to return face to face , but the ground swell of member opinion following the shambling wreck that was the webinar forced union chiefs to reconsider.

Chat was disabled for the webinar which Norma Foley has been touting as “ widespread consultation “ so no questions were possible. Due to The DES not making allowances for the number of people who wanted to attend , the webinar ran live on YouTube. As the secretary of the DES insisted that school staff wanted to be back in schools this minute , the lie was exposed by the 11,000 commenting on YouTube . Those comments have since been hidden, but not before Emma O’Kelly from RTE managed to see many of them .

The webinar had no new ideas , no fresh plans bar schools are safe , wear a mask . No questions were taken . With regards to highly risky procedure such as intimate care , “ public health advice guidelines “ were to be followed . These guidelines at present say , stay home , keep at least 2 m from anyone else , wear a mask.Many children with additional educational needs cannot wear masks , some will pull the masks off adults dealing with them, some may spit/ bite / scratch the person helping them .

The PPE grant has been slashed by 40% for this term. The DES , in their reopening schools guidelines in August had advised staff that masks hinder communication and said that of face coverings needed to be worn , a visor should be considered.
They have now revised PPE to being a mask and possibly gloves , though the same guidelines actually discouraged gloves.

Dr. Ronan Glynn spoke for around 3 minutes . He was never asked directly “is it safe to open schools right now ,” nor was anyone allowed to ask this , due to questions/chat being blocked .

lulublue22 · 20-01-2021 11:40AM

Birdy wrote: »

Josepha just said that SNA's cannot work remotely.

tbf josepha doesn’t know her arse from her elbow - very very poor choice of language in the dail , stating schools unequivocally reopening on the 11th of Jan ( can’t see a reason why they wouldn’t) and the clincher for me promising advocacy groups that remote learning would definitely go ahead for AN children whose parents did not want them to return to school despite 1. the published guidelines not providing remote learning once SE reopened nor 2. more importantly no staff on the ground to implement 2 parallel systems. How a gov minister for special ed did not know the details of the published return to school is shocking as is her lack of understanding of the practicalities on the ground. She seems to be a pure political hack how she got that ministry is beyond me.

Whiplash85 · 20-01-2021 11:42AM

Northern Ireland has much lower community transmission that we have here. Michael Ryan of the WHO stated that that is essentially the key to have schools back open. Government are happy to take a divide and conquer approach to this. Fuelling tensions in wider community and creating animosity towards teachers. But it has always been that way. In last week or so we have had some of worst covid rates in the world and the fear klaxon was sounded. Stay at home was the cry. Now all of a sudden it is safe to go back supported by data up to December and absolutely no efforts to mitigate risks for teachers by offering vaccines or even meeting with reps sufficiently with a coherent stance on why all of a sudden schools are safe. All you will get from media is continuous vox pops of calls with parents who will be asked "Do you feel let down", "Do you feel angry?, you must" and "Do you trust they have the best interests of _______ at heart". Its utter bull****.

penny piper · 20-01-2021 11:42AM

I think Norma Foley has really proved she is unfit for her job.....she is out of her depth....trying to turn the public against teachers/sna's ....saying Unions have said this....
No school should go back until these hospital/virus/icu numbers go down...and I'm sorry but I think special needs parents need to accept this....
It's time Ms.Foley decided what she's going to do about the LC as well......

lulublue22 · 20-01-2021 11:42AM

mariaalice wrote: »

Again can anyone explain how special schools in NI are open are the staff and pupils different there?

I’m not sure why you expect any to ? I doubt anyone here has any knowledge of the school system in NI ?

ELM327 · 20-01-2021 11:43AM

mariaalice wrote: »

Again can anyone explain how special schools in NI are open are the staff and pupils different there?

Bad decisions.

Carazy · 20-01-2021 11:43AM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The webinar had no new ideas , no fresh plans bar schools are safe , wear a mask . No questions were taken . With regards to highly risky procedure such as intimate care , “ public health advice guidelines “ were to be followed . These guidelines at present say , stay home , keep at least 2 m from anyone else , wear a mask.Many children with additional educational needs cannot wear masks , some will pull the masks off adults dealing with them, some may spit/ bite / scratch the person helping them .

Surely each school knows how to deal with each student and behaviours of some children as they had been while open? Discretion on this should be allowed.
These few reasons don't excuse that we now have a closure of ALL schools with SEN children tomorrow!

DraftDodger · 20-01-2021 11:43AM

Birdy wrote: »

Josepha Madigan just compared it to Mother and baby homes debacle on Claire Byrne.

She is FUMING.

Is capital letters fuming worse than normal?

ELM327 · 20-01-2021 11:44AM

Carazy wrote: »

Northern Ireland has schools open.
Teachers want schools open.
SNAs want schools open.
Parents want schools open.
Students want schools open.
Government want schools open.
NPHET say schools are safe.

Unions want schools to remain closed.

No they don't.

20-01-2021 11:44AM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

21 special schools in NÍ have had outbreaks . Teachers and SNAs in special educational settings want schools to reopen, once it is safer to do so. INTO and FORSA had agreed in principle to return face to face , but the ground swell of member opinion following the shambling wreck that was the webinar forced union chiefs to reconsider.

Chat was disabled for the webinar which Norma Foley has been touting as “ widespread consultation “ so no questions were possible. Due to The DES not making allowances for the number of people who wanted to attend , the webinar ran live on YouTube. As the secretary of the DES insisted that school staff wanted to be back in schools this minute , the lie was exposed by the 11,000 commenting on YouTube . Those comments have since been hidden, but not before Emma O’Kelly from RTE managed to see many of them .

The webinar had no new ideas , no fresh plans bar schools are safe , wear a mask . No questions were taken . With regards to highly risky procedure such as intimate care , “ public health advice guidelines “ were to be followed . These guidelines at present say , stay home , keep at least 2 m from anyone else , wear a mask.Many children with additional educational needs cannot wear masks , some will pull the masks off adults dealing with them, some may spit/ bite / scratch the person helping them .

The PPE grant has been slashed by 40% for this term. The DES , in their reopening schools guidelines in August had advised staff that masks hinder communication and said that of face coverings needed to be worn , a visor should be considered.
They have now revised PPE to being a mask and possibly gloves , though the same guidelines actually discouraged gloves.

Dr. Ronan Glynn spoke for around 3 minutes . He was never asked directly “is it safe to open schools right now ,” nor was anyone allowed to ask this , due to questions/chat being blocked .

But that does not explain how the schools in NI are open even though they have had outbreaks?

What that says staff in NI understand there are risks and go with it as best they can.

The staff here want a risk-free environment or they will not reopen.

20-01-2021 11:46AM

Imagine if nurses said they are not going to work unless it's a completely risk-free environment.

Whiplash85 · 20-01-2021 11:47AM

mariaalice wrote: »

Imagine if nurses said they are not going to work unless it's a completely risk-free environment.

Nurses have been vaccinated. Apples and oranges

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01