Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

penny piper

mariaalice wrote: »

But that does not explain how the schools in NI are open even though they have had outbreaks?

What that says staff in NI understand there are risks and go with it as best they can.

The staff here want a risk-free environment or they will not reopen.

Why should the staff here not want a risk free/safe environment? They have families/parents/vulnerable relatives etc.....
What the staff do in n.ireland has nothing to do with it.....perhaps there would be less cases if they stayed at home.....pretty bad in the north...

jimmytwotimes 2013

mariaalice wrote: »

The staff here want a risk-free environment or they will not reopen.

That's probably an assumption on your part.

Staff worked in a risky environment from Sept to Dec.

History Queen

mariaalice wrote: »

Again can anyone explain how special schools in NI are open are the staff and pupils different there?

I posted a link to the issues with special schools being open there back the thread. It is not something we should be aiming for. Here it is again:

https://neu.org.uk/concerns-about-re-opening-special-schools


Below copied from the above link:

The announcement that special schools would remain open at a time of increased community transmission, public health restrictions and stark case numbers in schools has been met with shock, widespread anxiety and a feeling of being undervalued on the part of the teaching workforce. The teaching workforce appreciate the impact that the closure of schools has had on the families of children with complex needs. The valid concerns of the parents/carers have no doubt influenced the decision to deliver a directive for special schools to remain open.

Already, within the first week of reopening, special schools are managing symptomatic and positive cases, leading to the exact scenario which should have been avoided, or at least minimised, creating an unpredictability in terms of provision and an increased risk to health.

NEU, and NITC colleagues, have sought advice from its members, working in special schools, as to how improvements in the safety and sustainability of special schools can be provided. It is clear to us the current open school provision without additional mitigation is failing the whole special school community. The message of ‘limit your contacts’ and ‘maintain social distance of 2m’ are unable to be implemented in these facilities.

While class sizes may be perceived as small the complexity of needs of the pupils requires a higher number of adults than in mainstream schools.

Decisive action is needed now to reassure the workforce and parents that safe access to necessary pupil and school support is being considered by the Executive, and to this end, NITC request a review of the current policy on opening special schools.

Birdy

IMO They are using the new variant as an excuse. Schools were open from September to December. There were thousands of cases associated with schools but they stayed open.

Secondly, they didn't want to go back unless everyone was going back. Because it's NoT fAiR.

This was about supporting the vulnerable while MOST school staff and children stayed at home. The Education system has to cater for everyone.

byhookorbycrook

mariaalice wrote: »

But that does not explain how the schools in NI are open even though they have had outbreaks?

What that says staff in NI understand there are risks and go with it as best they can.

The staff here want a risk-free environment or they will not reopen.

Vaccine roll out in the north is also much quicker. At the webinar , it was stated that school staff will still be no.11 on the list here and that it will be at least April/May before this happens here.

We cannot be promised a risk free environment , because that’s not possible, but we would like a less riskier environment, with a plan that involves more than a minister shouting that schooos are safe . She had no plan . From March to January the plan b has been plan A only shout it more loudly .

Tpcl20

the corpo wrote: »

Here, one point about NI and the UK keeping their schools open is that... 1600+ people died of Covid in the UK yesterday. Should we really be following any example being set in those jurisdictions...

There have been cases of Covd in all 39 Special Schools in Northern Ireland.
The provision of Special Education is a very different thing there. 39 schools with 6,000 pupils I heard on the radio yesterday. That's 150 pupils in each setting so (I hope) about ten primary staff and a minimum of twenty more ancillary staff (not to mention bus drivers, escorts numbering in the 30s). I calculate 200+ at-risk in these settings.

Although it sounds like they are operating at 50% capacity (which wasn't in place here) and they are using PPE, being prioritised in the track and trace and vaccinations etc.

Hence why they could open but we couldn't.

DraftDodger

mariaalice wrote: »

Imagine if nurses said they are not going to work unless it's a completely risk-free environment.

Nurses signed up for health care

penny piper

mariaalice wrote: »

Imagine if nurses said they are not going to work unless it's a completely risk-free environment.

There is no comparison.....a nurse know what her job entails....dealing with the sick etc...

Teachers don't deal with pandemics...not part of the job description

Carazy

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

That's probably an assumption on your part.

Staff worked in a risky environment from Sept to Dec.

Schools were a safe environment then and are still classified as such

History Queen

Birdy wrote: »

IMO They are using the new variant as an excuse. Schools were open from September to December. There were thousands of cases associated with schools but they stayed open.

Secondly, they didn't want to go back unless everyone was going back. Because it's NoT fAiR.

This was about supporting the vulnerable while MOST school staff and children stayed at home. The Education system has to cater for everyone.

So you think it is fair that some students with special needs are accomodated but not others? Becausethat was theonly reference I saw to unfairness regarding who was going back.

jusvi2001

Tpcl20 wrote: »

https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/112368584/posts/3136638092

As I say, read this article for the detail.

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Not comparable settings and also not what's being discussed. It's almost as though you just want to complain about teachers salaries and don't actually care about considering the environment or the children in it.

Teachers were happy to accept NHPET recommendation to close the schools last year but not when NHPET recommends its safe to open schools.

TheValeyard

mariaalice wrote: »

Imagine if nurses said they are not going to work unless it's a completely risk-free environment.

You mean the people who are currently getting vaccinated, working in full PPE gear, who chose a career in helping very sick people?

Whiplash85

Birdy wrote: »

IMO They are using the new variant as an excuse. Schools were open from September to December. There were thousands of cases associated with schools but they stayed open.

Secondly, they didn't want to go back unless everyone was going back. Because it's NoT fAiR.

This was about supporting the vulnerable while MOST school staff and children stayed at home. The Education system has to cater for everyone.

You cant ignore the science. The conditions that existed to allow schools to be open before Christmas are not the same at they are at present. The new variant is becoming the more dominant one and is more transmissable especially amongst younger children. Govt have repeated this ad nauseum. I think we should give it until Easter and see where we are then.

Whiplash85

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Nurses have been vaccinated. Apples and oranges

Only in the last 3 weeks, its not comparing apples and oranges.

Carazy

Birdy wrote: »

IMO They are using the new variant as an excuse. Schools were open from September to December. There were thousands of cases associated with schools but they stayed open.

Secondly, they didn't want to go back unless everyone was going back. Because it's NoT fAiR.

This was about supporting the vulnerable while MOST school staff and children stayed at home. The Education system has to cater for everyone.

It's embarrassing for some teachers I know.
They want to go back and do feel safe. Some have their heels in and it's not fair to those who want to go back to teach tomorrow.

jusvi2001

penny piper wrote: »

There is no comparison.....a nurse know what her job entails....dealing with the sick etc...

Teachers don't deal with pandemics...not part of the job description

so as supermarket staff, drivers etc..they don't deal with pandemics and not in their job description.

byhookorbycrook

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Vaccine roll out in the north is also much quicker. At the webinar , it was stated that school staff will still be no.11 on the list here and that it will be at least April/May before this happens here.

We cannot be promised a risk free environment , because that’s not possible, but we would like a less riskier environment, with a plan that involves more than a minister shouting that schooos are safe . She had no plan . From March to January the plan b has been plan A only shout it more loudly .

They may be a quicker role out in NI but that has nothing to do with the fact that special schools in NI are open today and special schools here are not open.

SAMTALK

The webinar was a token gesture with absoutely no sound guidelines beyone wear a mask, wash your hands.

People comparing SNA / teachers to supermaket staff boils my blood. Do customers spit in their faces, do they hug staff, do they need help going to the toilet or been fed ?

Norma Foley has achieved what she out to do, transfer anger to unions/teachers/SNA's. The blame lays firmly at the feet of the Dept of Education for not putting anything in place for schools to re open. Government daily stating to stay at home, reduce contacts, dont move outside 5k, new variant more transmissable etc and yet telling SNA's it perfectly fine to have a child in your face , spitting, hugging etc. Cant have it both ways

the last opening was the correct thing to do but with the new variants around this all changes

DraftDodger

mariaalice wrote: »

Only in the last 3 weeks, its not comparing apples and oranges.

Yes the vaccine has only been around 3 weeks.

CapriciousOne

jusvi2001 wrote: »

so as supermarket staff, drivers etc..they don't deal with pandemics and not in their job description.

Supermarket staff, drivers, etc. don't have to provide intimate care to children who in a lot of cases are unable to wear masks or communicate if they are feeling unwell. This includes helping them to go to the bathroom, to eat, etc.

Find another strawman.

Tpcl20

Carazy wrote: »

Schools were a safe environment then and are still classified as such

A demonstration that if you tell the same lie often enough, gullible people actually start to believe it.

That sort of rhetoric and ignorant repeating of mantras gives a great indication who to put on the ignore list though.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Carazy wrote: »

Schools were a safe environment then and are still classified as such

Don't think so. Schools had covid cases, depends on how you define safe.

DraftDodger

jusvi2001 wrote: »

so as supermarket staff, drivers etc..they don't deal with pandemics and not in their job description.

What supermarket staff are expected to work in a small room with 30 kids. Or a small room with 5-6 kids who spit, hit, grab, sh1t themselves etc..

History Queen

jusvi2001 wrote: »

Teachers were happy to accept NHPET recommendation to close the schools last year but not when NHPET recommends its safe to open schools.

Which NPHET advice are you referring to?

https://twitter.com/dunne45/status/1351212081169780739?s=19

^Ronan Glynn said this two days ago

Whiplash85

Schools were perhaps a safe environment back in September initially and November but they are anything but now. Imagine being in Belmullet or Tramore and places like that where its estimated the 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 people in the community have the virus. You can extrapolate the risk of exposure yourself if you are in school now in this environment. Its not even the fear to teachers themselves but giving it to loved ones back home who may be more vulnerable.

penny piper

jusvi2001 wrote: »

so as supermarket staff, drivers etc..they don't deal with pandemics and not in their job description.

Well get the army out....food is essential....
Teaching can be done online ...

Carazy

History Queen wrote: »

Which NPHET advice are you referring to?


^Ronan Glynn said this two days ago

He's referring to ALL students.
SEN students (18,000) should be back from tomorrow.

Fair enough if SNA and teachers have issues.

But anyone or any organisation who is using this as a power play or who would use this issue to get at the department is the lowest of the low.

jrosen

CapriciousOne wrote: »

Supermarket staff, drivers, etc. don't have to provide intimate care to children who in a lot of cases are unable to wear masks or communicate if they are feeling unwell. This includes helping them to go to the bathroom, to eat, etc.

Find another strawman.

Just listened to a woman on the radio who said her son is in a special school and doesnt require any of the above. She said his class has 7 and they are well able to social distance.

Carazy

mariaalice wrote: »

Fair enough if SNA and teachers have issues.

But anyone or any organisation who is using this as a power play or who would use this issue to get at the department is the lowest of the low.

That is the most embarrassing and disappointing aspect of this.