Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

ohnonotgmail · 11-01-2021 08:21PM

briany wrote: »

Everyone has freedom of speech, assuming they have the mechanical capacity to speak or type or have any other way to communicate complex messages. What they don't have is freedom from consequences of that speech. That's really what Trump is complaining about, and that's what a lot of his followers are complaining about. They interpret 'freedom of speech' as 'freedom to say whatever I want without any comeback'.

and he is now finding out that he is wrong in that interpretation.

duploelabs · 11-01-2021 08:21PM

Overheal wrote: »

Ironically they don’t want you to look at “let’s have trial by combat” rhetoric

Or the challenges to the previous steaming dump they took on this thread earlier

Foxtrol · 11-01-2021 08:24PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Not quite the point I am making.

Yes, private companies can decide which political campaigns they want to fund. And that's fine.

But private companies preventing other companies/people from donating through their platform to someone they don't like is setting a dangerous precedent IMHO.

And some people have likened it to the gay cake controversy. I think it's closer to 'I'll bake your gay cake but not the other guy's gay cake'. A bakery either cooks or doesn't cook gay cakes. A platform like Stripe either allows political funding or doesn't allow political funding, it shouldn't decide which political funding they allow.

Where is the line? Should Trump's MAGA website be forced to allow me to sell anti-Trump merchandise to fund the democrats?

Each platform has rules and he broke them. It is pretty straight forward, it would be the same for any group that has done the same... (before someone goes there, no... BLM has never incited an attempted insurrection against a branch of the US government).

joe40 · 11-01-2021 08:29PM

Tell me how wrote: »

He doesn't have a right to undermine safety in society though, does he?

Absolutely, I have no problem with Twitter banning him too little too late.

I do wish there was more control over social media, they were instrumental in allowing hate to flourish in many parts of the world. Including providing Trump a platform to spread his lies.

It is naive to think these companies will behave in the greater good, they're still corporations and their prime imperative is to make money, not to make the world better or safer.

They're only dumping Trump now because it makes good business sense not some new found sense of altruism.

Ironically if you were to talk about controls the people complaining the loudest would have been reps. Their precious unfettered freedom whether in business or guns has a price.

namloc1980 · 11-01-2021 08:30PM

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

If Trump had won the election, there would have been violence on Wednesday the 6th, and it most certainly would have been far worse........

So this scenario, that you made up in your head, would've been far worse than an insurrection incited by the President of the United States and worse than the first time the Capitol in Washington DC was stormed since the the War of 1812 - including the savage murder of a policeman? Mmmmmm interesting, tell me more.

BobbyMalone · 11-01-2021 08:34PM

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

If Trump had won the election, there would have been violence on Wednesday the 6th, and it most certainly would have been far worse.

If we jump back to January 2017, a few months after Trump actually did win an election, we have a great comparison. There was no violence, no storming of a government building, no mob calling for people to be hanged. Yes, we had some tears, but we had tears this time as well. We also had dead bodies and a gallows erected outside the Capitol.

11-01-2021 08:39PM

The Quinnipiac Approval ratings for Trump are pretty interest, he's dropped to 33% approval ratings. 52% support for being removed from office. If further polls show similar then the Republicans may start viewing impeachment as their only way to recover any dignity.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3686

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 11-01-2021 08:42PM

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

If Trump had won the election, there would have been violence on Wednesday the 6th, and it most certainly would have been far worse. Democrats have been endorsing violence as a political tactic throughout the entire Trump Administration. Democrats have actively encouraged violence against Trump and his supporters, they've had four years of assaults and harassment by the left for liking a president but it in no way justifies what happened at the capitol. Flames have been fanned by the left and democrats and the media downplayed it BLM etc

Unchecked/unpunished violence, begets more violence. When laws are enforced unfairly, you get more anger, more distrust of the law enforcers. You don't get to the events of Wednesday without the likes of BLM riots setting examples and the politically calculated decisions that allowed violence on a mass scale. Nobody cared about the cities, businesses that were destroyed, and the people that were killed. It's the very people condemning the Capitol Hill riot as an "insurrection" & "terrorist" attack that were silent and encouraging of the uprisings last summer where BLM-Antifa extremists tried to burn down government buildings, claim territory & kill people. Wednesday the 6th was the reaction of the media and the politicians of the democrat party. Check the difference in reactions from the Seattle situation to the D.C. situation. The main issue lies with the double standards.

The people who chose to break-in, damage property & commit violent acts on that day should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The law should be applied to those who burned cities across America to the ground, those who damaged property, who looted, assaulted & racially abused people, and those. that committed violent acts. The law is only being applied to suit a certain agenda. Time and Time again we saw BLM and Antifa being released from jail.

It's the utter hypocrisy of it all!!

The same people are now decrying such actions as having also instigated such actions on their side, small example:

Ted Lieu, in 2018 repeatedly said people should “take to the streets” and threatened “widespread civil unrest” if Trump fired Muller.Many other Democrats followed suite saying Trump firing Mueller would result in a “firestorm … in the streets” many other Democrats Stated this on MSNBC

Sen. Cory Booker urged activists to answer a “call to action” to protest at the Capitol,

Hillary Clinton 2018 said civility was only an option if the Democrats controlled the legislative branch.

Former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder encouraged a group of liberal activists to fight back, a sentiment that was met with applause and laughter

In 2019, if Trump declared a national emergency about a government shutdown Rep. Joaquin Castro said Democrats would

Rep. Maxine Waters of California urged activists to physically confront the Trump administration in public places, saying,

In an interview with Joy Reid on MSNBC, Water was telling people to be

Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the House said that, in politics,

Sen. Jon Tester of Montana

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1347384139381698562

The nuclear codes situation. The only President who hasn't started a new war in 50 years is the one we should be afraid of using nukes now? He's had access for four years so why the big drama all of a sudden? Ah cause Trump is this major deranged, orange supervillain ffs. As always there is great irony in calling Trump a fascist or a dictor, neither of them can be censored or lose an election. Calling Trump either while you cheer for his censorship shows the lack of self-awareness in those cheering. The people who spent the last four years calling Trump a Nazi are now consolidating power into a single political party and punishing all dissent, and the irony is completely lost on them.

What was with this "Great Lie"? Biden is well versed in projection and would only know what it is to repeat the same lies over and over until they're taken as the truth. He does it better than Trump ever did or will ever do. That's 47+ years of practice. The uneducated morans comparing Wednesday to the likes of Kristallnacht are the same people who describe the events at Capitol like a genocide with representatives inside "escaping death", such melodramatic tripe. Synagogues were not burnt to the ground, Jewish businesses were not destroyed, nobody was deported to concentration camps, and hundreds were not murders. There was not a unified republican party that participated in the criminal acts on capital hill. But the above does sound alot like the BLM riots tho........

Yes last summer for America was huge out pouring of feelings by way of protests riots/murder...

What did trump do to unify that nation he was leading and still is leading?

fash · 11-01-2021 08:46PM

briany wrote: »

He didn't explicitly tell them to storm Capitol Hill. In fact, he did use the words 'peacefully and patriotically' in his address to that crowd re: going down to the Capitol building to, er, encourage lawmakers to, er, do the 'right thing'.

Actually the speech was carefully crafted so that the word "peaceful" was used hardly used, instead there was repeated violent imagery, repeated assertions that the other side had attacked the US,
Trumpists needed to save democracy, that Trumpists needed to fight and never give up, that those opposing Trump would learn their lesson, that the Trumpists would go up and see that the stolen election was made good etc etc. It's quite a tour de force of lies and propaganda
See around this part:
.

I just feel the need to point that out, because if you directly accuse him of telling the mob to attack the Capitol building, he can point to those three quoted words, which he probably knew what he was at by saying, and then call his critics 'hysterical', despite him riling up that crowd with the whole lie about the stolen election.

Agree with this- an actually masterfully crafted speech - I am honestly shocked he was capable of it - there is some advanced cunning manipulative sociopathy involved (i.e. beyond the mere malignant narcissism).

ohnonotgmail · 11-01-2021 08:49PM

fash wrote: »

Actually the speech was carefully crafted so that the word "peaceful" was used hardly used, instead there was repeated violent imagery, repeated assertions that the other side had attacked the US,
Trumpists needed to save democracy, that Trumpists needed to fight and never give up, that those opposing Trump would learn their lesson, that the Trumpists would go up and see that the stolen election was made good etc etc. It's quite a tour de force of lies and propaganda
See around this part:
.

Agree with this- an actually masterfully crafted speech - I am honestly shocked he was capable of it - there is some advanced cunning manipulative sociopathy involved (i.e. beyond the mere malignant narcissism).

you assume he wrote it himself.

robinph · 11-01-2021 08:51PM

BobbyMalone wrote: »

If we jump back to January 2017, a few months after Trump actually did win an election, we have a great comparison. There was no violence, no storming of a government building, no mob calling for people to be hanged. Yes, we had some tears, but we had tears this time as well. We also had dead bodies and a gallows erected outside the Capitol.

And more people participating in a peaceful march through DC the day after the inauguration than were there to see Trump being sworn in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Women%27s_March

briany · 11-01-2021 08:53PM

fash wrote: »

Agree with this- an actually masterfully crafted speech - I am honestly shocked he was capable of it - there is some advanced cunning manipulative sociopathy involved (i.e. beyond the mere malignant narcissism).

Trump may be a deeply ignorant man who is also a supreme narcissist, but I don't think it should ever be said that he's a truly stupid man.

joe40 · 11-01-2021 08:54PM

fash wrote: »

Actually the speech was carefully crafted so that the word "peaceful" was used hardly used, instead there was repeated violent imagery, repeated assertions that the other side had attacked the US,
Trumpists needed to save democracy, that Trumpists needed to fight and never give up, that those opposing Trump would learn their lesson, that the Trumpists would go up and see that the stolen election was made good etc etc. It's quite a tour de force of lies and propaganda
See around this part:
.

Agree with this- an actually masterfully crafted speech - I am honestly shocked he was capable of it - there is some advanced cunning manipulative sociopathy involved (i.e. beyond the mere malignant narcissism).

Reminds of how Ian Paisley used to be able to inflame his followers but was then able to claim innocence when violence happened.

Carfacemandog · 11-01-2021 09:00PM

TLDR:

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

namloc1980 · 11-01-2021 09:04PM

briany wrote: »

He didn't explicitly tell them to storm Capitol Hill. In fact, he did use the words 'peacefully and patriotically' in his address to that crowd re: going down to the Capitol building to, er, encourage lawmakers to, er, do the 'right thing'.

I just feel the need to point that out, because if you directly accuse him of telling the mob to attack the Capitol building, he can point to those three quoted words, which he probably knew what he was at by saying, and then call his critics 'hysterical', despite him riling up that crowd with the whole lie about the stolen election.

The word peaceful or peacefully was used once in the entire speech, that piece you quoted. On the other hand the word fight appears 20 times including this bit:

And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.

He used steal or stolen 7 times including this:

Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal.

There can be no doubt, coupled with the rhetoric for the last 2 months about stolen elections etc, what he was inciting the crowd to do.

11-01-2021 09:04PM

Couple of interesting ones, Trump is looking increasingly likely to face prosecution.

https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1348720134702026754

Meanwhile I think a state department employee is failing with Trump's biography. :pac:

Donald J. Trump's term ended on 2021-01-11 19:48:39.

https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/

briany · 11-01-2021 09:10PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

The word peaceful or peacefully was used once in the entire speech, that piece you quoted. On the other hand the word fight appears 20 times including this bit

Repeated use of 'fight' seems like a slam dunk, but, of course, he would undoubtedly claim he was using the word 'fight' as in to 'struggle', 'strive' or 'contend'.

I certainly do not disagree that he used a lot of fiery rhetoric, but I do think that if you accuse him directly of incitement to storm the Capitol, you give him and his lawyers an easy dodge.

Tony EH · 11-01-2021 09:10PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not a Trump fan nor am I a fan of armed protests but Corporate America shouldn't get to make decisions like deplatforming Trump.

There's a huge danger in allowing social media companies to dictate who has a voice and who doesn't.

As a private entity, they have every right to refuse access to their product. Not only that, if someone uses their product to knowingly spread lies and on the back of that, encourage stupid and dangerous people to violent action, they have a DUTY to refuse that access.

The only thing wrong with the actions of these corporations, is that it came far too late in the day.

super_furry · 11-01-2021 09:11PM

Breaking: PGA will be cancelling all tournaments and instituting a lifetime ban of ever holding events at Trump Courses including stripping Trump of hosting the 2022 PGA Championship, insider says.

That's going to hurt him more than anything even remotely related to the Presidency. The PGA blackballing him will actually break his heart.

ohnonotgmail · 11-01-2021 09:13PM

briany wrote: »

Repeated use of 'fight' seems like a slam dunk, but, of course, he would undoubtedly claim he was using the word 'fight' as in to 'struggle', 'strive' or 'contend'.

I certainly do not disagree that he used a lot of fiery rhetoric, but I do think that if you accuse him directly of incitement to storm the Capitol, you give him and his lawyers an easy dodge.

Somebody else posted a link to a twitter thread by Seth Abramson that pulls the speech apart. Seth is a lawyer. Long but worth a read.

11-01-2021 09:14PM

https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/

By all accounts he's gone :eek:

Love him or hate him....its been an insane 4 years

briany · 11-01-2021 09:16PM

super_furry wrote: »

The PGA blackballing him will actually break his heart.

Here's hoping.

nullzero · 11-01-2021 09:16PM

Fake news?

Padre_Pio · 11-01-2021 09:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/

By all accounts he's gone :eek:

Love him or hate him....its been an insane 4 years

By no accounts other than your link as 20.16.

11-01-2021 09:16PM

nullzero wrote: »

Fake news?

State department website though??

joe40 · 11-01-2021 09:17PM

super_furry wrote: »

Breaking: PGA will be cancelling all tournaments and instituting a lifetime ban of ever holding events at Trump Courses including stripping Trump of hosting the 2022 PGA Championship, insider says.

That's going to hurt him more than anything even remotely related to the Presidency. The PGA blackballing him will actually break his heart.

The PGA aren't exactly a bastion of left wing thinking. That will hurt him.

bennyl10 · 11-01-2021 09:17PM

Padre_Pio wrote: »

By no accounts other than your link as 20.16.

It’s live on the state department website?

It’s a hack or he’s gone

11-01-2021 09:17PM

Tony EH wrote: »

As a private entity, they have every right to refuse access to their product. Not only that, if someone uses their product to knowingly spread lies and on the back of that, encourage stupid and dangerous people to violent action, they have a DUTY to refuse that access.

The only thing wrong with the actions of these corporations, is that it came far too late in the day.

The thing is the fear Trump engendered if any of them has acted against him before this he had the power to make life very difficult if not impossible for the tec and social media companies. That is the scary thing about the power he had.

everlast75 · 11-01-2021 09:18PM

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1348722690895581193?s=19

McMurphy · 11-01-2021 09:18PM

Good riddance to the complete and utter bellend.

Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

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