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Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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Comments

  • #8612
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    So Hospitality is still getting the blame ?

    Getting the blame for what? Hospitality doesn’t have to be responsible for all the transmissions to be sensible to not open them.

    Two main factors to consider are how many transmissions there are in an environment and how necessary that environment or business is. For example, the main place people get covid is in their own home from another family member who got it outside the house. After the home, the supermarket has the second highest number of transmissions.

    But homes and supermarkets are necessary and can’t be shut down. Pubs don’t have to have the highest number of transmissions because they are totally optional and non essential so not makes perfect sense to shut them.

    I’d also support more distancing measures in shops, particularly during this spike in transmissions.


  • #8613
    Ish66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭Ish66


    Look ! Pubs are closed, Offies open if you need a gargle. Get over it.


  • #8614
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    . After the home, the supermarket has the second highest number of transmissions.
    .

    Have you any evidence to back up this assertion?


  • #8615
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Stheno wrote: »
    Have you any evidence to back up this assertion?

    It was in the stats published recently. I don’t have it to hand. I’ll have a look.

    Edit: the data came from Public Health England and it wasn’t the location where people actually got covid. It’s the places people had been in the days before testing positive but it’s not conclusive.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-19/covid-supermarkets-revealed-as-place-visitors-and-workers-are-most-likely-to-be-exposed-to-coronavirus

    Why did you want to know?


  • #8616
    showpony1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭showpony1


    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    Extremely sobering figures coming out of Ireland tonight. I presume even the most foolhardy 'open the pubs' bore must now admit that was a supremely stupid and self-centred thing to be advocating for back in November and December? Lads getting maudlin about some fat man pouring them a pint of plain in the local while they watch Fulham vs Doncaster Rovers in the FA Cup.


    They certainly weren't sober.

    Meanwhile anyone with eyes who was in town in December saw thousands of people on Henry street packing into Penneys/JD Sports etc (buying their pyjamas & The North Face Jackets) which were left open for some reason as cases continued. This wasn't seen as a problem and they were left open even when things became "concerning".


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  • #8617
    showpony1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭showpony1


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    There was an article about people buying a cheap plane ticket so they could sit in the airport departures area and drink by and not get the flight.


    Lol that may be the saddest thing i've ever heard (and defo no one did this to be fair).


  • #8618
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    showpony1 wrote: »
    Lol that may be the saddest thing i've ever heard (and defo no one did this to be fair).

    A link to the article was posted in this thread - by people who were championing the idea that people were getting around the rules. Hard to imagine that people
    thought it was clever to get around the rules like that.

    It’s the difference of a few weeks. A couple of weeks ago there were posters advocating for opening the pubs! And ina few weeks they’ll be back advocating for the pubs being open the whole time.

    They’re often conspiracy theorists as part of the argument to open the pubs, but they’re on record in this very thread.


  • #8619
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,712 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It was in the stats published recently. I don’t have it to hand. I’ll have a look.

    Edit: the data came from Public Health England and it wasn’t the location where people actually got covid. It’s the places people had been in the days before testing positive but it’s not conclusive.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-19/covid-supermarkets-revealed-as-place-visitors-and-workers-are-most-likely-to-be-exposed-to-coronavirus

    Why did you want to know?

    I'm quite sure a large percentage of the adult population go to a supermarket at least once a week.


  • #8620
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    YFlyer wrote: »
    I'm quite sure a large percentage of the adult population go to a supermarket at least once a week.

    Ok. What’s your point? It’s not where people definitely caught covid as I said in the first post. I’ve corrected what I said in the post above.


  • #8621
    doublejobbing 2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭doublejobbing 2


    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    Extremely sobering figures coming out of Ireland tonight. I presume even the most foolhardy 'open the pubs' bore must now admit that was a supremely stupid and self-centred thing to be advocating for back in November and December? Lads getting maudlin about some fat man pouring them a pint of plain in the local while they watch Fulham vs Doncaster Rovers in the FA Cup.

    The decision to open hospitality at all was a serious error of judgement, and the figures would have been even worse if we had allowed Vinny Vinter to open his doors to every sort of soak, lush, and rummy.

    Any proof that the pubs were the primary vector for this? Even if they were it could be argued the government got it arseways- keep the pubs open from when they did open, let us all socialise in our usual groups (couples, two or three friends) then shut down as Christmas approached. Rather than opening in the timeframe that people who don't go to the pub often through the year like to get out, plus work drinks.

    The public have lost trust and stopped caring, or believing. I turned down three pub invites that probably would have brought me into contact with 20 people. I turned them down reluctantly and said I had a prior engagement- real reason was I didn't want to infect my now ageing parents on Xmas Day, but I didn't dare actually mention this as at this stage public distrust is such you would be labelled a sap for still believing the whole thing.

    Maybe Dr Holohan should have been more vocal in demanding that flights be completely halted for people returning from the US, UK and Europe.

    Nah. Course he wasn't.

    As we type, the people who brought it from the UK are returning back there, while plenty of people are carrying it back from Lithuania, Romania etc ready to start work across the country tomorrow.

    Holohan hasn't said a word about this. Still banging on with the 2% related to foreign travel no doubt.


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  • #8622
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    doublejobbing 2 wrote: »
    Any proof that the pubs were the primary vector for this?...

    Why would the pubs need to be the primary vector? Schools and supermarkets are likely to account for higher numbers of transmissions than pubs. But supermarkets are essential and schools are essential to the economy by allowing parents to go to work. Pubs are nice to have but are not essential so they should be closed.

    We know there will be transmissions from essential business and environments like supermarkets and schools. Supermarkets are completely ring fenced and schools are kept open if possible. So you have to clamp down harder on the other areas which aren’t essential. It’s unfortunate that pubs are closed as we all miss the pub, but it’s all pretty simple.


  • #8623
    PommieBast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    doublejobbing 2 wrote: »
    The public have lost trust and stopped caring, or believing. I turned down three pub invites that probably would have brought me into contact with 20 people. I turned them down reluctantly and said I had a prior engagement- real reason was I didn't want to infect my now ageing parents on Xmas Day, but I didn't dare actually mention this as at this stage public distrust is such you would be labelled a sap for still believing the whole thing.
    Pretty much the same reason why I've kept to the straight and narrow. The government stats are that only 2-4% of infections in my age group result in hospitalisation let alone death, so if I stayed in Ireland where I have no family there is no real incentive to stick to rules.


    The "six weeks to save christmas" was a big mistake as that was an open invite for christmas as usual.


  • #8624
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It was in the stats published recently. I don’t have it to hand. I’ll have a look.

    Edit: the data came from Public Health England and it wasn’t the location where people actually got covid. It’s the places people had been in the days before testing positive but it’s not conclusive.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-19/covid-supermarkets-revealed-as-place-visitors-and-workers-are-most-likely-to-be-exposed-to-coronavirus

    Why did you want to know?

    Because there hasn't been any real data proving supermarkets are high risk

    I was looking for you to back up.your statement which you have not done


  • #8625
    pottokblue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭pottokblue


    I was last in pub 19/12/2020 and am looking forward to going to pub again sometime 2021. I was talking to my southafrican cousin who has an offwork dose of C19 and in Southafrica they have curfew and no alcohol sales. If our gov was serious we should try a circuitbreaker 3-week prohibtion era close offliences as nonessential and shut the aclohol supermarket sections and see if it helps reduce spread...


  • #8626
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Stheno wrote: »
    Because there hasn't been any real data proving supermarkets are high risk

    I was looking for you to back up.your statement which you have not done

    Ok. Supermarkets are probably very low rate of transmissions but they’re high traffic areas so probably account for a relatively large number of transmissions. They have mitigations like sterilising stations, wearing masks and high ceilings. and usually plenty of space. In any case they’re essential so nobody is suggesting closing them even if they account for a relatively high number of transmissions.

    Pubs, on the other hand are not essential and we all know why it’s sensible to close pubs.


  • #8627
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    pottokblue wrote: »
    I was last in pub 19/12/2020 and am looking forward to going to pub again sometime 2021. I was talking to my southafrican cousin who has an offwork dose of C19 and in Southafrica they have curfew and no alcohol sales. If our gov was serious we should try a circuitbreaker 3-week prohibtion era close offliences as nonessential and shut the aclohol supermarket sections and see if it helps reduce spread...

    South Africa has unique reasons for banning alcohol sales which I don’t think really apply here. They said they were doing it to save the hospitals because of the high number of hospitalisations related to people being drunk. Not sure if that’s necessary here.


  • #8628
    pottokblue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭pottokblue


    Like mandatory maskwearing it could be a mandatory two week dry january it might achieve ****all or it might help. Who knows unless they try it. Plenty of alcohol admissions in Dublin EDs precorona and alcohol at times plays a role in selfharm and domestic abuse. Nevertheless I think that pubs should have been reopened back in June 2021 but am hopeful of a march 21 pub pints.


  • #8629
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,766 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    So many factors that go against Pubs of any kind opening

    Feb- we have the 6 nations
    Mar- Paddys day, start of the GAA national leagues
    Apr- Easter and GAA championships
    May/June/July- Sunmer pints, end of the soccer, GAA, concerts, holidays etc
    Aug/Sep- Holidays, students returning to college etc

    Handy scapegoats for the anti drinkers and NPHET will never recommend pubs of any description to open


  • #8630
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    So many factors that go against Pubs of any kind opening

    Feb- we have the 6 nations
    Mar- Paddys day, start of the GAA national leagues
    Apr- Easter and GAA championships
    May/June/July- Sunmer pints, end of the soccer, GAA, concerts, holidays etc
    Aug/Sep- Holidays, students returning to college etc

    Handy scapegoats for the anti drinkers and NPHET will never recommend pubs of any description to open

    I’m neither anti-drink nor part of NPHET, and I love going to the pub but I’m not in favour of opening them right now. Once it’s sensible to open pubs again, I’ll be in favour of it.

    It’s not a big anti-drink conspiracy.


  • #8631
    AnFeirmeoir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 397 ✭✭AnFeirmeoir


    People partied too much.(not most of us, but enough) Simple as that. Shopping, drinking and meeting up.
    Not goverments fault or foreigners or nphed.. our own fault.
    Every time you meet someone you increase risk.
    Hospitality pushing to be open was/is irresponsible even though it is very hard on their industry.
    All we can do now is what we are supposed to be doing all along.
    I think schools should be closed. Maybe open for leaving certs.


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  • #8632
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    pottokblue wrote: »
    I was last in pub 19/12/2020 and am looking forward to going to pub again sometime 2021. I was talking to my southafrican cousin who has an offwork dose of C19 and in Southafrica they have curfew and no alcohol sales. If our gov was serious we should try a circuitbreaker 3-week prohibtion era close offliences as nonessential and shut the aclohol supermarket sections and see if it helps reduce spread...

    And pack the hospitals with alkies going into toxic shock. Excellent idea.


  • #8633
    the rock29
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭the rock29


    Fine keep them closed what about staff who need there jobs are they going to extend the pup payment till people get back to work


  • #8634
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,610 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    the rock29 wrote: »
    Fine keep them closed what about staff who need there jobs are they going to extend the pup payment till people get back to work

    Yes, they've already announced it's extended till the end of February.....


  • #8635
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,766 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    One thing about the PUP is some are actually earning more

    Once the vulnerable are vaccinated open the pubs with the restrictions. Keep the early closes til later in the year


  • #8636
    the rock29
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭the rock29


    And if they don't more people on the dole


  • #8637
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,183 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Why would the pubs need to be the primary vector? Schools and supermarkets are likely to account for higher numbers of transmissions than pubs. But supermarkets are essential and schools are essential to the economy by allowing parents to go to work. Pubs are nice to have but are not essential so they should be closed.

    We know there will be transmissions from essential business and environments like supermarkets and schools. Supermarkets are completely ring fenced and schools are kept open if possible. So you have to clamp down harder on the other areas which aren’t essential. It’s unfortunate that pubs are closed as we all miss the pub, but it’s all pretty simple.




    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Ok. Supermarkets are probably very low rate of transmissions but they’re high traffic areas so probably account for a relatively large number of transmissions. They have mitigations like sterilising stations, wearing masks and high ceilings. and usually plenty of space. In any case they’re essential so nobody is suggesting closing them even if they account for a relatively high number of transmissions.

    Pubs, on the other hand are not essential and we all know why it’s sensible to close pubs.

    You are posting rubbish. During October/November we had schools, construction, supermarkets etc open. We got daily numbers down to below two hundred. Guess what we opened up non essential retail restaurants and pub. People partied like crazy.

    You only have to open your eyes to see what happened. Supermarkets had f@@k all to do with the expodential rise in numbers we saw over the last week. What happened was some people partied like f@@k and went home for Christmas dinner. CIVID us all.over the place at present and that is down to two things pubs and people meeting for Christmas dinner

    Stop trying to muddy the water with rubbish speculation

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #8638
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,457 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    You are posting rubbish facts. During October/November

    What’s during October/November?


  • #8639
    Aongus Von Bismarck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Aongus Von Bismarck


    My word, the numbers today are horrific and deeply worrying. I think it puts to bed the frankly idiotic idea that 'wet pubs' should have been allowed open. Hospitality shouldn't have been allowed open at all tbh, and it's a certainty that figures would be even worse if even Tom, Dick, and Harry was allowed waltz into some poorly insulated hellhole for a pint of tasteless lager.


  • #8640
    Tucker tunsel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33 ✭Tucker tunsel


    Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »
    My word, the numbers today are horrific and deeply worrying. I think it puts to bed the frankly idiotic idea that 'wet pubs' should have been allowed open. Hospitality shouldn't have been allowed open at all tbh, and it's a certainty that figures would be even worse if even Tom, Dick, and Harry was allowed waltz into some poorly insulated hellhole for a pint of tasteless lager.

    My local town has 3 wet pubs and the local hotel

    As the hotel was allowed open people were all stuck in the one location with it jammed to the bleeding rafters.

    Would it not of been better people were all spread out once the decision was made the hotel could sell alcohol ?


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  • #8641
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,852 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tucker tunsel wrote: »
    My local town has 3 wet pubs and the local hotel

    As the hotel was allowed open people were all stuck in the one location with it jammed to the bleeding rafters.

    Would it not of been better people were all spread out once the decision was made the hotel could sell alcohol ?

    We’re you all rounded up and shoved into the hotel bar?


This discussion has been closed.
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