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Werewolf Post Game Feedback Thread

1…1012141516

Comments

  • #552
    fixXxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,330 ✭✭✭fixXxer


    The big explosion was beautiful. Kind of a relief too, really struggling to fit the last few WW games in. Enjoyed watching from the sidelines though, great work mods :)


  • #553
    Green&Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,432 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    LadySkunk wrote: »

    Overall though I really loved playing this game so well done mods, this will be one talked about for a long time. Congrats to Green&Red too on your mod debut, you done such a great job and I definitely wouldn’t say no to a you and Necro tag team again :D

    giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f2969da623b36c750c9e8871d1fcbc5d1403c79ba02&rid=giphy.gif


  • #554
    duffman13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,025 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Really enjoyed it, got caught up in the explosion and genuinely thought I'd be the only one voting that way but sure thems the breaks when ya cant get on around lynch.

    Mechanics were great and the kill rate was good! Nice combo on the supervig sub, worked well! Thanks mods, didnt get a chance to check back before today

    Also well done LadySkunk, serious performance from you


  • #555
    tusk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,882 ✭✭✭tusk


    It was a super game. With the loss of clodagh the decision to make a super vig was inspired. It balanced the game perfectly after Nuclear Tuesday ( someone says this elsewhere and I love it) .

    The low posting as skunk says is definitely starting to hurt things more. I was a culprit early on and just barely meet the 5 posts by the skin of my teeth. For any other game I will have bowed out, but this is the game I've been waiting for. I couldn't, so I tried to up my count as much as I could.

    I think as a community, we need to really look at ourselves and ask if we're going to be able to commit a reasonable minimum effort, and if not, then don't sign up or sub out as soon as it becomes apparent. Because really the energy and planning that mods go through, it's tough to see things flounder.

    This is in now way aimed at anyone, sure I've been a bad one on a few occasions, but it's definitely something we should try to be mindful of.

    I'm delighted there have been a few new players over the last while. I'm just coming up to a year since my first game and I have to say I love the community and how open everyone is with fresh meat. It's a joy to be a part of.


  • #556
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    I think a regular issue (Had this when modding Star Wars) is player reveal on thread. I’m not great at working out balance mechanics but it seems to be difficult to factor into games.

    When there is auto priest there is effectively no way for wolves to bluff a role. (I actually prefer auto priest as a player as I find it hard to keep up even in simple games). And RVs can just come out on thread which basically means RVs should seldom be mislynche., ok they may get killed (if no BG) after coming out but at certain points in a game, as a wolf you basically feel like you are waiting to die, particularly if more NRVs are being picked off which leaves you less room to hide.

    One suggestion is that you could try a rule whereby any role reveal will have a 50/50 chance of giving wolves a prize (for every reveal) or maybe one wolf team will get a prize until the BG dies.. To counter act the BG, this prize would not exist after the BG is gone. It’s basically to try and make coming out on thread more damaging because mass reveals and people revealing roles that can’t be disputed makes it a bit too easy for RVs.

    This means baddies can still soft role claim. Part of the problem of course is people trying to circumvent the rule by hinting at a role but can’t baddies start trying to do that?. I suppose we would have to just amend rules as we were trying to make them work.


  • #557
    Ectoplasm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭Ectoplasm


    Brilliant game Rikand. Really enjoyed the complexity and nuance.

    Things I loved about the game were being able to claim a role but not a character...I think that could have been really interesting with the replication of roles across factions.

    I really enjoyed the different factions but I'm not sure how much I liked not knowing how many factions there were. I can see both sides on this.

    One thing I do think though is that if you are going to have factions and not let people know the number, there should be some way of the teams working it out. It may be personal preference but I'm not a big fan of passive roles, because I think it can lead to strategic low posting...which leads me to my only real issue of the game, no/low posting.

    It is something that has been an issue in this and other games and one which is NOT the fault of the mods. I'm also not trying to have a go at any particular player here because know life can happen and it has happened to me but I think we need to introduce higher minimum posting counts/harsher penalties for non posting. I'm sure Rikand was scrambling for subs to keep things interesting but he shouldn't have to.

    I don't get to play as often as I would like (for which you all should be grateful :pac: ) so there is probably an element of personal frustration in this but I'd love to see low posting go away.


  • #558
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Feb Mods are looking at a few options for low posting / no shows. Still in development but hopefully we can find something that helps.


  • #559
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,421 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Ectoplasm wrote: »
    Brilliant game Rikand. Really enjoyed the complexity and nuance.

    Things I loved about the game were being able to claim a role but not a character...I think that could have been really interesting with the replication of roles across factions.

    I really enjoyed the different factions but I'm not sure how much I liked not knowing how many factions there were. I can see both sides on this.

    One thing I do think though is that if you are going to have factions and not let people know the number, there should be some way of the teams working it out. It may be personal preference but I'm not a big fan of passive roles, because I think it can lead to strategic low posting...which leads me to my only real issue of the game, no/low posting.

    It is something that has been an issue in this and other games and one which is NOT the fault of the mods. I'm also not trying to have a go at any particular player here because know life can happen and it has happened to me but I think we need to introduce higher minimum posting counts/harsher penalties for non posting. I'm sure Rikand was scrambling for subs to keep things interesting but he shouldn't have to.

    I don't get to play as often as I would like (for which you all should be grateful :pac: ) so there is probably an element of personal frustration in this but I'd love to see low posting go away.

    I'll try and address a few of these points if i can.

    I did have a mechanic in place for no posting and no voting, but I think there is a difference between someone who is strategically not voting/posting and someone who just disappears off the planet. I hope both Fixxxer and JGF are okay :)

    If I didnt have a sub for Phil WW, he would have been modkilled at 9PM that night and the village would have won with Katie giving up.


    Game Setup ::

    On the forum I come from originally, there are 3 standard styles of games ::

    Vanilla :
    Vanilla+
    Mish-Mash


    Vanillas::

    Vanilla are standard games where the only roles are wolves, villagers and seer(s) depending on the size of the games.
    They are apportioned in this fashion

    No. Of Players|Villagers|Wolves|Seer(s)|n0 Peek
    9|6|2|1|yes
    11|8|2|1|no
    13|9|3|1|yes
    15|11|3|1|no
    17|12|4|1|yes
    19|14|4|1|no
    21|15|5|1|yes
    23|17|5|1|no
    25|17|6|2|yes
    27|19|6|2|no
    29|20|7|2|yes
    etc|

    Even though thats only for vanilla games, I, and most mods on my home forum, keep to that design for all forms of werewolf




    Vanilla+

    Vanilla+ are where you would have a complex design that is known to every player playing the game. I have seen a lot of boards.ie games with this makeup. For example my game just gone, you would have seen the full make up of the village team, wolf team, and the neutrals. A 17 player game, there was 4 wolves and 1 seer as above - But with other powers given to both wolf and village teams to account for the variance of neutrals.



    Mish-Mash

    Everything is hidden and anything goes. Tend to still stick to the player design though which is tricky when you can have games of over 100 players. A 100 person game would have 4-5 seers and 20ish wolves.

    I prefer to create mish-mashes as I like the artistic licence, I like to leave people in suspense and I think Vanilla+ is tougher on the wolf teams. Although it was only presumed there was a godfather in my game and necro got lynched pretty hard on that assumption. Imagine how hard he would get lynched if you knew there were Godfathers! :D



    I would love to run a few vanillas though if there was a scope or a demand for them. Maybe on the weeks when there are no large themed games. They are a great way to introduce people to werewolf and get them immersed in the ways of it outside of large complex themed games :)


  • #560
    Neowise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭Neowise


    Ectoplasm wrote: »
    Brilliant game Rikand. Really enjoyed the complexity and nuance.

    Things I loved about the game were being able to claim a role but not a character...I think that could have been really interesting with the replication of roles across factions.

    I really enjoyed the different factions but I'm not sure how much I liked not knowing how many factions there were. I can see both sides on this.

    One thing I do think though is that if you are going to have factions and not let people know the number, there should be some way of the teams working it out. It may be personal preference but I'm not a big fan of passive roles, because I think it can lead to strategic low posting...which leads me to my only real issue of the game, no/low posting.

    It is something that has been an issue in this and other games and one which is NOT the fault of the mods. I'm also not trying to have a go at any particular player here because know life can happen and it has happened to me but I think we need to introduce higher minimum posting counts/harsher penalties for non posting. I'm sure Rikand was scrambling for subs to keep things interesting but he shouldn't have to.

    I don't get to play as often as I would like (for which you all should be grateful :pac: ) so there is probably an element of personal frustration in this but I'd love to see low posting go away.
    It should be policy to lynch low and no poster's, not rely on mods to get rid of them. I've seen it so many times in games, don't worry about xxx no poster, mod will get rid of them, where as, we should be policy lynching them.


  • #561
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Loved the game Rikand (and Neo). I'm 90% certain I actually have used that exact table for deciding game balance in the past, think it's available with a quick Google.

    Closest thing we have had here to a Mish-Mash would be South Park I'd reckon, we just don't have the player base to have a full out Mish-Mash game.

    The roles gelled extremely well with the source material and made for a very immersive experience. Agreed with Neo, we don't on Boards do it enough, policy lynching low posters and expecting mods to deal with them, so perhaps we are partly to blame for them then lasting to the end and impacting the game result.

    That being said sub-Phil was excellent, just a shame the original didn't get a chance to play fully. SnowyMay was fab when they came in for fixXxer as well, so kudos to the subs for playing their part.


    If I can though, I'd like to bring up the subject of recent games - it seems we are struggling to fill sign ups which is a concern. Even games with 15 slots aren't filling as of late, and usually a good theme such as Die Hard would bring in a few new players and fill up quickly but it just doesn't seem to be happening for anyone currently.

    It's not anyone's fault, players drift off and don't play again through real changes etc, and it's up to us as a community to market ourselves and continue to bring in new players.


    Forum Games is actually more popular than ever with the Tournaments, Sheep, MSPaint and various versions of Walrus that all of us love and mostly participate in as well.

    BUT - Werewolf seems to be going in the opposite direction. We did have a vibrant and active Feedback thread and after game discussion that has all but died nowadays. Off topic chat has kinda petered out a bit too.

    Personally I think we need to arrest that slide sooner rather than later or we will end up losing the game like what happened to Codenames and D&D.

    Mods are not going to want to build games that won't fill, so whilst we have a Schedule running until Christmas 2022 - we may indeed see times where a mod will pull their game rather than have 12, or 15 players play when they had a planned game for 20.

    And maybe that shouldn't happen either, flexibility as a game mod is invaluable - but we also need to give more credit to people who run the games, and indeed Boards as a website rather than running off to a discord server as soon as the game finishes and not having any discussion on the matter or providing the game mods with some feedback about what people liked, what they didn't like etc.


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  • #562
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,421 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Neowise wrote: »
    It should be policy to lynch low and no poster's, not rely on mods to get rid of them. I've seen it so many times in games, don't worry about xxx no poster, mod will get rid of them, where as, we should be policy lynching them.

    I am for policy lynches :)


  • #563
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,421 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Necro wrote: »
    Loved the game Rikand (and Neo). I'm 90% certain I actually have used that exact table for deciding game balance in the past, think it's available with a quick Google.

    Closest thing we have had here to a Mish-Mash would be South Park I'd reckon, we just don't have the player base to have a full out Mish-Mash game.

    The roles gelled extremely well with the source material and made for a very immersive experience. Agreed with Neo, we don't on Boards do it enough, policy lynching low posters and expecting mods to deal with them, so perhaps we are partly to blame for them then lasting to the end and impacting the game result.

    That being said sub-Phil was excellent, just a shame the original didn't get a chance to play fully. SnowyMay was fab when they came in for fixXxer as well, so kudos to the subs for playing their part.


    If I can though, I'd like to bring up the subject of recent games - it seems we are struggling to fill sign ups which is a concern. Even games with 15 slots aren't filling as of late, and usually a good theme such as Die Hard would bring in a few new players and fill up quickly but it just doesn't seem to be happening for anyone currently.

    It's not anyone's fault, players drift off and don't play again through real changes etc, and it's up to us as a community to market ourselves and continue to bring in new players.


    Forum Games is actually more popular than ever with the Tournaments, Sheep, MSPaint and various versions of Walrus that all of us love and mostly participate in as well.

    BUT - Werewolf seems to be going in the opposite direction. We did have a vibrant and active Feedback thread and after game discussion that has all but died nowadays. Off topic chat has kinda petered out a bit too.

    Personally I think we need to arrest that slide sooner rather than later or we will end up losing the game like what happened to Codenames and D&D.

    Mods are not going to want to build games that won't fill, so whilst we have a Schedule running until Christmas 2022 - we may indeed see times where a mod will pull their game rather than have 12, or 15 players play when they had a planned game for 20.

    And maybe that shouldn't happen either, flexibility as a game mod is invaluable - but we also need to give more credit to people who run the games, and indeed Boards as a website rather than running off to a discord server as soon as the game finishes and not having any discussion on the matter or providing the game mods with some feedback about what people liked, what they didn't like etc.

    I'm not sure if Kathleen will pop in or not but when i was looking for subs she said she would ask some friends who post on boards.ie...

    their response :: " Pfft, werewolf is only for boring nerds. "

    So there is definitely an image problem for werewolf in the wider boards.ie community. given how many sheepers and walrusers we have now, that image problem is perhaps within as well


    We could try a hydra game where we see about inviting all new players to try the game out and give them an experienced player to pair up with who would act as adviser or give them know how on reasoning the game out. Dont know if that would help or if even irish people in general would go for it or not :) Some Irish people tend to be more of an " I'll be grand, I dont need help" sort of a bunch


  • #564
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    I think there are a few historical habits we might need to modernise in the forum to be honest.

    The mod schedule is booked until the end of next year, but Necro is right we need to make sure we still have a player base by then.

    I think we should maybe look at giving priority to people who haven't modded so far in the calendar year rather than repeat mods (and I say this as perhaps the worst offender in recent years). I think we might also need to give priority to people who are actively (and definition of "actively" would need to be fleshed out) playing as well.

    I think we need a recruitment push and part of that is playing less complicated games and formalizing that into the schedule (somewhat as Rikand said). I believe the less complicated games are good ways to get new players on board, as well as keep regulars on board. I myself had to step away from playing because I just can't commit time and energy to some of the more complicated games, and the way we currently schedule them, there is no definite way to ensure a game will be vanilla or complicated with a view to vomitting to play. A good few former regulars have cited not being able to commit to a complicated game as the reason they haven't been playing.

    We have access to promotion in AH that we never had before and it's been great for tournament games, but not for WW, and I worry that's because the gamea are so complicated that grasping what's going on and picking it up seems inaccessible.

    And then conversely you have people waiting for so long to mod a game that they want that game to be innovative and action packed /role packed. So those two forces would seem to be at odds with one another.

    I agree the chat and post game analysis is gone from the forum, and that's a shame. I'll make a personal effort on that front but not sure at the moment what else can be done.

    I don't want to make changes for changes sake but I do think the forum mods perhaps need to take feedback from you in this thread and maybe look at some structures to make sure the game gets back to growing in future.

    I would encourage everyone to get your feedback down here so that we can identify issues and look at solutions where possible.


  • #565
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    One suggestion I might make for the future - not this year necessarily as the awards threads are running - is to combine the Wolfies and FG Awards into one combined effort.

    I think having the 'Wolfies' as a seperate entity can give off the idea that Werewolf is cliqueish and anyone not playing is not welcome.

    I have some other thoughts but that's one I wanted to put out there.


  • #566
    Ectoplasm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭Ectoplasm


    Neowise wrote: »
    It should be policy to lynch low and no poster's, not rely on mods to get rid of them. I've seen it so many times in games, don't worry about xxx no poster, mod will get rid of them, where as, we should be policy lynching them.

    Absolutely. I really wasn't trying to assign blame or anything like that with my post, more to have a bit of discussion which has happened and which I'm delighted with:)

    Didn't realise you were also involved in modding until today so thanks to you too for a great game. As I said, my chances for playing are limited and it's brilliant to play such an engaging game.


  • #567
    Ectoplasm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭Ectoplasm


    Regarding the comment on time commitments it is one that hits me...I can really only play around school holidays.

    I did play a game with closed nights that was much easier to manage...some modification of that schedule for an evening only, vanilla game might be a good introduction to Werewolf. I'd be happy to mod one (though I'd need help with game balance). It might help out some more experienced players who struggle for time too.

    Personally I love the complex themed games but I've also enjoyed the really basic short games.


  • #568
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87,500 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    I played Supernatural and Die Hard, both well done and organised for me, great fun
    https://forumofgames.com/




  • #569
    Neowise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭Neowise


    Maybe a part of sign ups we can have a boiler plate info section.

    Game type: open \ closed
    Player count needed to run:
    Conversion mechanic: yes \ no
    Some more questions ..... So players can gauge the type of game they are signing up for.


  • #570
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Ectoplasm wrote: »
    Regarding the comment on time commitments it is one that hits me...I can really only play around school holidays.

    I did play a game with closed nights that was much easier to manage...some modification of that schedule for an evening only, vanilla game might be a good introduction to Werewolf. I'd be happy to mod one (though I'd need help with game balance). It might help out some more experienced players who struggle for time too.

    Personally I love the complex themed games but I've also enjoyed the really basic short games.

    Thing with Werewolf is we don't utilise the weekends as much as we maybe should in some cases.

    Especially with lockdowns etc there's scope for a two day or even just one nighter game from Friday eve to Sunday.

    It might suit some people better to play a short game at the weekend as opposed to during the week when the main games are ran


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  • #571
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    My plans for this upcoming Jan game was to give 3 or 4 options

    1 fairly vanilla game with some mechanics.
    1 Role Madness game
    1 game with not too complex not too vanilla.

    Id like to have the night time closed and I can accommodate any suggestions mods or the community feel would aid numbers . Im flexible to provide what the people want esp to attract new players


  • #572
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Necro wrote: »
    Thing with Werewolf is we don't utilise the weekends as much as we maybe should in some cases.

    Especially with lockdowns etc there's scope for a two day or even just one nighter game from Friday eve to Sunday.

    It might suit some people better to play a short game at the weekend as opposed to during the week when the main games are ran

    I think how we schedule and decide on game types might be contributing to this. If anyone has info on how this is done on other sites that would be interesting. I can't imagine other sites use a first come first serve approach to managing game schedules and type.


  • #573
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Baggly wrote: »
    I think how we schedule and decide on game types might be contributing to this. If anyone has info on how this is done on other sites that would be interesting. I can't imagine other sites use a first come first serve approach to managing game schedules and type.

    It's difficult, because I've only played here, on MU (which is a dedicated WW site) and on another Irish forum (well Facebook too but that doesn't count).

    I don't think using MU as a comparison is fair to anyone here because that site's sole intention is to provide games of Mafia/Werewolf.


  • #574
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Necro wrote: »
    It's difficult, because I've only played here, on MU (which is a dedicated WW site) and on another Irish forum (well Facebook too but that doesn't count).

    I don't think using MU as a comparison is fair to anyone here because that site's sole intention is to provide games of Mafia/Werewolf.

    I'm not sure I understand though. The sub forums sole function is WW.... And we can do things whatever way we want to.

    If it's more games per month, we can do that; if it's slots for smaller gwmes; we can do that. If its more structure around scheduling a game as skeith mentioned thats fine too. If its basically a free for all and no advance scheduling we can try that too.

    We previously discussed the issue of games getting too complicated and yet Mods wanting to do a complex game because they are waiting so long. We kinda left it there because there didn't seem to be a solution that wouldn't unfairly impact on game Mods, but I'd wonder do we now need to try something / anything to make the game a little easier to pick up and join in on.


  • #575
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Ok, fair point.

    There are two schedules on MU - one is more in line with our own current schedule, they run big games twice a month with 'vetted' runners (basically you or I could not just show up and run a game over there, we would have to run a number of mini games first)

    The second is for shorter games. It's not a schedule as such, people can just start one and it starts when sign ups fill. Similar to the smaller games sKeith and later Neowise was running earlier in the year.


    The main issue is player base imo. Shorter games are a great idea but they can impact the main schedule as players feel a bit of 'burn out' from playing both. Because our games are mainly going to drag from the same pool of players for both, it could cause that issue rather than resolve it..

    I don't really have an answer tbh, mainly what we need is more players, starting there would be a good launch point


  • #576
    Neowise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭Neowise


    The issue i see with free for all is people subscribing to multiple games and only committing to one of them and leaving other games with zombies. Some people are well able to multi table though, so i would be against a ban on multi gaming.


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  • #577
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Fwiw I don't have a definite answer myself and I think this is an important discussion, so I'm going to send out some pms to game Mods from the schedule to try and get their 2c as well (since any decisions that get made will likely impact them)


  • #578
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Baggly wrote: »
    Fwiw I don't have a definite answer myself and I think this is an important discussion, so I'm going to send out some pms to game Mods from the schedule to try and get their 2c as well (since any decisions that get made will likely impact them)

    Yep, that's really important. It's not a case of Baggly or Necro throwing a few ideas around and solving it or even just the forum mods here sitting down and having a discussion.

    It's a wider community issue in all honesty. And we are all coming from the same place, trying to make the games better and more enjoyable for everyone.

    I don't even think there are that many issues around our own schedule tbh - but it's the fact the player pool is dwindling a little and how we start to try to build that back up again.

    So the more feedback the better.


  • #579
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    I think there is a link though. All the games are largely complicated, they are complicated because people have to wait so long to run them, because they are complicated the barriers to joining in are higher. Anyway I've put in my 2c. Appreciate all the feedback so far. Please keep it coming.


  • #580
    Trigger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,554 ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    Personally, I read all the werewolf games but just do not have the time to invest at present. I think to entice a few more people and make it more active would be to have a few smaller games or one dayers/nighters going on in between the big games.

    I can see from other posters that the big games can be mentally draining especially if you last towards the end of the game. Maybe having a short fun game can re-energise them for the next one. As you can also see that the really do love the game


  • #581
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,421 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Baggly wrote: »
    I think how we schedule and decide on game types might be contributing to this. If anyone has info on how this is done on other sites that would be interesting. I can't imagine other sites use a first come first serve approach to managing game schedules and type.

    When 2+2 was in its prime for hosting games, their schedule looked something like this ::

    Date | Game Type | Number of Players| Mod
    Monday 1st of January | Mish-Mash | 40+ | John
    Thursday 4th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Sean
    Monday 8th of January | Vanilla + | 20 | Timmy
    Thursday 11th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Sean
    Monday 15th of January | Mish-Mash | 60+ | Ray
    Thursday 18th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Sean
    Monday 22nd of January | Vanilla | 13 | Kev
    Thursday 25th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Sean
    Monday 29th of January | Mish-Mash | 50+ | Dave

    A mish-mash every 2 weeks with vanilla's starting on Thursday's or the monday in the middle for people who were killed in the mish-mash early. 2+2 lost a lot of players when MU was created and a forum which was dedicated to running werewolf was better than using a website where werewolf was a 2nd class citizen. Of course, then there were others (like myself) who just disappeared through burnout.


    problems with running werewolf on boards.ie in the same fashion


    We obviously dont have the playerbase yet to embark on an ambitious schedule like that. At 2+2's peak, there were 150 active players. We also dont have the forum tools to drag more people in. 2+2 in fairness to them accommodated werewolf as much as they could such as giving player accounts special privileges to their accounts to create threads, being able to lock and unlock the threads they created as necessary. I had a few accounts I used for modding games. However, we still encountered issues in that we could only make 1 post every 1 minute, so no possibility of rapid exchanges. You had to wait! Boards.ie wins there :cool:



    The way boards.ie is currently ran is very unaccommodating towards running werewolf such as only being able to send a PM to one person at a time, only able to send one once every minute and only able to send 5 PMs in a 10 minute period. Which all might seem like small things, but in any game with more than 10 people makes it a touch inconvenient unless you are going to have a forum mod assist you. The vote counter script i got JMurder from 2+2 to create for us could have been one such tool that might have made the games more enticing but that has some problems too with the way in which boards.ie is coded. I still use it in its current form because I would miss votes otherwise :D




    And of course, the people who run boards.ie should be able to run boards.ie how they choose. Werewolf is a very tiny population on boards.ie so no reason why they should accommodate us, but it is just another thing that might not be helping us. The security of their site is paramount.


    For me, I'm delighted to be able to play games here and to run games here. One of those reasons I can run them on a European schedule. 2+2 was a US based forum, so if I tried to run Euro-Friendly games, it was tough. A lot of the time I had to run games 1pm to 1am Irish time to suit the Americans who were signing up to my games. Which was **** when I had a real job to do too lol :D


    A schedule that could work for us to get started could be like this ::


    Date | Game Type | Number of Players| Mod
    Monday 1st of January | Mish-Mash/Vanilla+ | 20+ | John
    Monday 15th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Ray
    Monday 22nd of January | Vanilla | 13 | Kev
    Monday 29th of January | Mish-Mash/Vanilla+ | 20+ | Dave

    A weeks break after the larger games to give people time to recharge and then a couple of vanillas in between to keep people fresh and keep them in and for new people to join up and try out werewolf


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  • #582
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Baggly wrote: »
    I think there is a link though. All the games are largely complicated, they are complicated because people have to wait so long to run them, because they are complicated the barriers to joining in are higher. Anyway I've put in my 2c. Appreciate all the feedback so far. Please keep it coming.

    For me, when I was new, what attracted me to WW was the mystery. I love the sleuthing and solving what is happening.

    Complexity wasnt an issue. I dropped into the Simpsons game and while I had failed misserably, the level of complexity was just right to suck me in and learn how to play it. I loved figuring out the roles and mechanics.

    What would help old players return? May I suggest PMing players that havent played in 6 months plus to provide feedback as to what would encourage them to return?


  • #583
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,421 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Trigger wrote: »
    Personally, I read all the werewolf games but just do not have the time to invest at present. I think to entice a few more people and make it more active would be to have a few smaller games or one dayers/nighters going on in between the big games.

    I can see from other posters that the big games can be mentally draining especially if you last towards the end of the game. Maybe having a short fun game can re-energise them for the next one. As you can also see that the really do love the game

    We could run turbos

    These are games that happen on one night. Day phase is 20 minutes long, night phase is 10 minutes long. 9 player games work best. 9 players = 6 villagers, 2 wolves, 1 seer.

    Sign up thread is created and PM's sent out quickly. Tell the 2 wolves they can communicate however they wish (pm's, discord, skype, whatever... )

    Games last no more than 2 hours normally but great for people that only have a day or night to commit and cant commit to a full game :)


  • #584
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    beakerjoe wrote:
    What would help old players return? May I suggest PMing players that havent played in 6 months plus to provide feedback as to what would encourage them to return?


    Yeah I can do that.


  • #585
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Rikand I won't quote the full post nor can address all the points right now but forum mod support is available to send out PMs in bulk. If I'm playing we can always arrange something else with one of the others Mods.


  • #586
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    There's a good few of us that are mods in some shape or form now in the group. If I'm not playing I'm also quite happy to make myself available to issue PMs rapidly.*

    *Though I'll mostly be playing :pac:


  • #587
    Mollyb60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,637 ✭✭✭Mollyb60


    Ok so I haven't played much games at all this year and I think the main reason for it was burnout and complexity. I always find the evenings too hectic especially if I've been busy in work during the day and am expected to catch up on 20 pages of dicussion in a 2 hour window before a lynch. And if I don't get involved or have perfect reasons for voting for someone I get attacked on the thread. Closing the thread overnight would be a big plus for me personally.

    Also games with very complex roles and rules just takes too long for me to get my head around which I just don't like. The most fun I've had in games are where it's just a pretty simple game with a few roles thrown in for flavour. And I'm just gonna say it now, i HATE hidden roles and it's mostly what put me off the games this year. I just don't think it's fair to villagers when they already start on a back foot to be throwing in unexpected roles at the last minute. It just annoys me because it throws the village further into dissarray. But I do understand why they have become popular in games and why people like them.

    I like the suggestion of having a vanilla game in between bigger games. Is burnout for other players a real thing though? Would a schedule of one big game every 6 weeks/2 months be too long between games? With a smaller vanilla game in between?

    As for getting new players in, the most common comment from new players in the complex games is panic and confusion about what they're supposed to do. So I don't think complex games are ever gonna get new players in. Only the most dedicated and interested are gonna play in those. New players who are unsure of the format or unsure whether they even want to play would surely be put off by a 40 person game with 10 million roles and island switches and hidden characters and serial killers and minions?


  • #588
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,421 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Baggly wrote: »
    Rikand I won't quote the full post nor can address all the points right now but forum mod support is available to send out PMs in bulk. If I'm playing we can always arrange something else with one of the others Mods.

    BUt what if all forum mods wanted to play ? Or what if there were no forum mods around ? :)

    It's only a minor thing really. I do know that support is available as quicky helped us out before ;)


  • #589
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Rikand wrote:
    BUt what if all forum mods wanted to play ? Or what if there were no forum mods around ?

    The FG Mods have an arrangement in place that not all of us can play a game. Not specifically for sending out PMs but for other admin reasons. So one of us should be free.

    But yeah any boards.ie mod can do it, as its a tool of being a site mod that the restrictions are lifted.


  • #590
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    And, perhaps worryingly, I'm always around.


  • #591
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    What would help old players return? May I suggest PMing players that havent played in 6 months plus to provide feedback as to what would encourage them to return?

    While I can’t speak for other players not returning I stopped playing as the last 2 games I played in I felt I was over the top verbally abused. Players were going completely over the top with insults to the point in one game the person apologised for going over the top the following day as he really just wanted to win.

    I didn’t bother reporting the abuse at the time as I know one of the rules was don’t take it personally but the fact it was 2 games back to back killed the joy of playing it for me.

    I don’t know if it is still a trend but at the time aggressive abuse play became a running trend which for me wasn’t what the game was built on.


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  • #592
    Baggly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    I'm not sure of the timing loughc but each game has an abuse rule and procedure in it for dealing with such instances. There have been a few times it has been needed or a forum mod might have to send a PM, but they are the exception rather than the rule. If you did want to give it another shot, I would hope you wouldn't be disappointed.


  • #593
    JohnGreenFan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭JohnGreenFan


    Personally I would love to take part in a couple of vanilla games - just to try and improve my own werewolf skills. I had to sub out of Rikands game due to some personal issues at home that I hadn't expected when I signed up, and while I did intend on getting involved on day 2 I just couldn't commit the time to it, particularly when I was so lost after not playing day 1, when everyone seemed to be roled and I just couldn't catch up.

    I love the idea of the 2 hour games - everyone knows what they're signing up for and would hopefully eliminate the low posters or waiting for someone to come back online so the game can progress.

    The burnout from games is definitely real - particularly I think when you're new, you're else likely to be targeted by wolves because you don't really know what's going on, and then you end up in end game with no clue and all the experienced wolves are left playing you!! It can be tough to deal with it if it continuosly happens and you don't fee like you're improving at all.


  • #594
    Clarabel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Clarabel


    I have very strong views on policy lynching low posting new players.

    Leave then alone let them find their feet or paws


  • #595
    Clarabel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Clarabel


    Ectoplasm wrote: »
    Regarding the comment on time commitments it is one that hits me...I can really only play around school holidays.

    I did play a game with closed nights that was much easier to manage...some modification of that schedule for an evening only, vanilla game might be a good introduction to Werewolf. I'd be happy to mod one (though I'd need help with game balance). It might help out some more experienced players who struggle for time too.

    Personally I love the complex themed games but I've also enjoyed the really basic short games.

    I think this is a great idea. I also struggle with keeping up for the games during the week.


  • #596
    Clarabel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Clarabel


    Trigger wrote: »
    Personally, I read all the werewolf games but just do not have the time to invest at present. I think to entice a few more people and make it more active would be to have a few smaller games or one dayers/nighters going on in between the big games.

    I can see from other posters that the big games can be mentally draining especially if you last towards the end of the game. Maybe having a short fun game can re-energise them for the next one. As you can also see that the really do love the game

    Lady John Tuskabel needs another outing.

    I love modding and playing the short games too. They can be great fun. I'll happily put my hand up to help out with those


  • #597
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    With the feedback here in mind, please provide input for the Jan Game.

    All games will be new player friendly.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058146105


  • #598
    MrsFlushdraw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭MrsFlushdraw


    Rikand wrote: »
    When 2+2 was in its prime for hosting games, their schedule looked something like this ::

    Date | Game Type | Number of Players| Mod
    Monday 1st of January | Mish-Mash | 40+ | John
    Thursday 4th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Sean
    Monday 8th of January | Vanilla + | 20 | Timmy
    Thursday 11th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Sean
    Monday 15th of January | Mish-Mash | 60+ | Ray
    Thursday 18th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Sean
    Monday 22nd of January | Vanilla | 13 | Kev
    Thursday 25th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Sean
    Monday 29th of January | Mish-Mash | 50+ | Dave

    A mish-mash every 2 weeks with vanilla's starting on Thursday's or the monday in the middle for people who were killed in the mish-mash early. 2+2 lost a lot of players when MU was created and a forum which was dedicated to running werewolf was better than using a website where werewolf was a 2nd class citizen. Of course, then there were others (like myself) who just disappeared through burnout.


    problems with running werewolf on boards.ie in the same fashion


    We obviously dont have the playerbase yet to embark on an ambitious schedule like that. At 2+2's peak, there were 150 active players. We also dont have the forum tools to drag more people in. 2+2 in fairness to them accommodated werewolf as much as they could such as giving player accounts special privileges to their accounts to create threads, being able to lock and unlock the threads they created as necessary. I had a few accounts I used for modding games. However, we still encountered issues in that we could only make 1 post every 1 minute, so no possibility of rapid exchanges. You had to wait! Boards.ie wins there :cool:



    The way boards.ie is currently ran is very unaccommodating towards running werewolf such as only being able to send a PM to one person at a time, only able to send one once every minute and only able to send 5 PMs in a 10 minute period. Which all might seem like small things, but in any game with more than 10 people makes it a touch inconvenient unless you are going to have a forum mod assist you. The vote counter script i got JMurder from 2+2 to create for us could have been one such tool that might have made the games more enticing but that has some problems too with the way in which boards.ie is coded. I still use it in its current form because I would miss votes otherwise :D




    And of course, the people who run boards.ie should be able to run boards.ie how they choose. Werewolf is a very tiny population on boards.ie so no reason why they should accommodate us, but it is just another thing that might not be helping us. The security of their site is paramount.


    For me, I'm delighted to be able to play games here and to run games here. One of those reasons I can run them on a European schedule. 2+2 was a US based forum, so if I tried to run Euro-Friendly games, it was tough. A lot of the time I had to run games 1pm to 1am Irish time to suit the Americans who were signing up to my games. Which was **** when I had a real job to do too lol :D


    A schedule that could work for us to get started could be like this ::


    Date | Game Type | Number of Players| Mod
    Monday 1st of January | Mish-Mash/Vanilla+ | 20+ | John
    Monday 15th of January | Vanilla | 13 | Ray
    Monday 22nd of January | Vanilla | 13 | Kev
    Monday 29th of January | Mish-Mash/Vanilla+ | 20+ | Dave

    A weeks break after the larger games to give people time to recharge and then a couple of vanillas in between to keep people fresh and keep them in and for new people to join up and try out werewolf

    I forgot about the games on 2+2. A few of us from Irishpokerboards used to play there in between games years ago


  • #599
    MrsFlushdraw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭MrsFlushdraw


    My thoughts on the games.

    I started playing WW in 2010 I think it was. I played over in IPB. I was here from the first game and have mostly enjoyed the experience.
    I stopped playing on IPB because they thought it was really funny to kill me on day one. It got on my nerves and ruined it. So I stopped and played here instead.

    I like having both vanilla and complex, I understand that people go for complex when they have waited a while to showcase their mod/game skills. But we need to have more vanilla than the fancy in the mix. I think that I would have been put off by games here if I was new.

    I also hate DISCORD. This is an other thing that puts me off playing here. I loved back in 2017 I think it was, when we had COP just for the back rooms and the game was then discussed here afterwards or in the dead room.

    I also think that in a complex game, we should have a day/night schedule. And a Mod could maybe lock the thread between certain hours? I know we did in IPB, and it made it easier to keep on top. Nothing worse that waking up to 32413 posts! you then speed read, make a fark up as you did and everyone thinks you are a wolf!

    I think we need to do a bit of advertising. I did on FB years ago, no idea if anyone signed up because of it.

    With the high interest in Among Us, now may be the time to strike. It might be a COOL game to play instead of a nerdy one.

    And Happy New Year folks :)


  • #600
    beakerjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    MrsFlushdraw wrote: »
    My thoughts on the games.

    I started playing WW in 2010 I think it was. I played over in IPB. I was here from the first game and have mostly enjoyed the experience.
    I stopped playing on IPB because they thought it was really funny to kill me on day one. It got on my nerves and ruined it. So I stopped and played here instead.

    I like having both vanilla and complex, I understand that people go for complex when they have waited a while to showcase their mod/game skills. But we need to have more vanilla than the fancy in the mix. I think that I would have been put off by games here if I was new.

    I also hate DISCORD. This is an other thing that puts me off playing here. I loved back in 2017 I think it was, when we had COP just for the back rooms and the game was then discussed here afterwards or in the dead room.

    I also think that in a complex game, we should have a day/night schedule. And a Mod could maybe lock the thread between certain hours? I know we did in IPB, and it made it easier to keep on top. Nothing worse that waking up to 32413 posts! you then speed read, make a fark up as you did and everyone thinks you are a wolf!

    I think we need to do a bit of advertising. I did on FB years ago, no idea if anyone signed up because of it.

    With the high interest in Among Us, now may be the time to strike. It might be a COOL game to play instead of a nerdy one.

    And Happy New Year folks :)

    What can I do to lure you back for the Jan game?


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  • #601
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Thanks for the game Rikand, I actually watched Die hard the night I was lynched and die hard 2 the day after!

    I hadn’t played in awhile and to be honest initially feel maybe I won’t play for awhile again. I was really off my game this time around but I have to be honest and say I didn’t enjoy it. (Nothing to do with game mechanics or the theme). I really feel that I need to be full of energy to play WW and as somebody who suffers with sleep and mental health issues I find it very hard to know when the stars will allign for me to be able for a game. Last few times I’ve had to pull out as the game was draining what little energy I had!

    The best analogy To explain my stance is 5 aside and tennis. I play for fun, not to win (although winning is nice). I used to be wayyyyy more competitive but have mellowed out in old age. I stopped playing in overly competitive 5 aside games because I get competitive and don’t enjoy my mindset when I’m playing to win.

    I really look forward to werewolf games but when they go into over drive I get exhausted trying to keep up. I feel somewhat responsible to make a go of games as I know how much work goes into them. I had planned to have loads of fun in this game but was really thrown when I left such a quiet game to a what felt like A fair few insinuations by the time I returned. On day 1 it doesn’t take much to end up on a lynch so a couple of people targeting you is plenty to get you killed.

    I understand the way the game goes and totally accept I talked my way out on night one. But this isn’t sour grapes for my poor play, that started because I was having a laugh earlier in the day, it’s just kind of demoralising when you lose really early for just having some fun. There was practically no posting and I took it as fluff day, I was enjoying how slow it was going and looking forward to getting more into the game. But when I came back with multiple people using my fluff posts I knew the writing was on the wall. I over compensated by defending my corner but it’s really unsatisfying to end up dead because you were trying to have some fun when nothing was going on or had gone on to that point.

    But before anybody says “you were caught out suspiciously” I honestly didn’t realise I was effectively an enemy of the village. I was playing as if I was a villager , I thought team neutral meant I didn’t care if my team or village won and was playing as practically a roled villager. That’s my fault as I’m terrible at paying attention to detail but I’ve never been on a neutral team so wasn’t really familiar with it. Also my team mate didn’t show up until I was literally hung so never really had a chance to discuss it with them. Maybe the fact that I can be absent minded in the game (any mistakes I made were genuine mistakes with no insidious intentions behind them).

    What I find offputting is how quickly having a laugh can work against you. I suppose one of my weakness is I can’t help but plead my defence when I am being targeted. It’s hard not to take some stuff personally even though you understand the game. I actually prefer it most when I have a NRV role as I don’t feel any responsibility and can enjoy the game more comfortably and don’t mind as much getting killed.

    I prefer anon games as I find it distracting and very hard not to pre judge players. Maybe having more then one break during the day could be tried? So thread closed from 10.30 to 8am. Then thread closed from 11.30 to 4.30? Or something like that?! I hate anytime coming back to pages and pages of stuff to catchup on, it actually makes me sweat and curse the game. Would he asking a lot for mods to have a summary post of events each day but it would be great if this was easily done?! I know some people keep savage notes but I find games painful when I start keeping spreadsheets of stuff. Maybe I am just not cut out for the game.

    In terms of new players, maybe there could be some mechanic that helps them at least make it to day 2. Maybe some sort of random option for wolves on morning 1 munch that at least protects newbs to give them at least 2 full days. Is there any case for no death until night 1 lynch and a double munch on morning 2? Maybe to get people posting have a vote on say 0 (fluff day) and whoever tops the poll will compete in a 50/50 toss of a coin with whomever tops the vote on day 1? Or maybe some prizes can be won by both teams at random times between start day and first lynch?


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