Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Stormyteacup · 28-12-2020 03:27PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Because visiting a pub inevitably involves sharing the same indoor space, over a fairly extended period, with people outside your immediate family. Yes I know people have house parties, and in principle they are probably worse than pubs for spreading the virus, but that's only part of the consumption of shop-bought alcohol. Plus if people were really determined to drink at home they would stock up in Norn Iron or whatever...

Yes, the first part of your post was the main point I was trying to make - sharing an indoor space over an extended period of time with people outside your immediate family is the risk.

The same risk you encounter in a cafe or restaurant.

Separate to this risk is a perceived increased risk when alcohol is thrown into the mix. No doubt it’s true when large amounts of alcohol are involved, same as happens at some gatherings in a home.

But the pubs should have been afforded an opportunity to operate with the same restrictions as gastro pubs and restaurants. Every industry has examples of members flouting restrictions. Fines would be deterrent enough for most premises to conform.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 28-12-2020 03:30PM

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

I doubt it - I'd say there will be an even bigger appreciation for pubs when they are allowed open up again. The first few weeks will be like a festival of Paddy's days

Very unlikely mate.

Pubs will be shut til summer at least. I'm already seeing places being sold. Hynes on Manor Street, my usernames local haunt for example.

When pubs do open, it won't be a free for all. A lot of the licensing laws will be amended I reckon. Hopefully the 11pm closing time stays with us. No need for anyone to be out past that time getting hammered. A&Es and Garda drunk tanks have never been emptier. I think a lot on government are seeing the cost of a "pub culture" is a lot higher than what it brings in.

Not to mention the loss of productivity with lads heading to work hanging on a Monday morning.

I think our new society post-covid will be a lot healthier and happier.

If people want to insist on gulling down quantities of cheap cider they can do it in their own living rooms.

stephenjmcd · 28-12-2020 03:37PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Very unlikely mate.

Pubs will be shut til summer at least. I'm already seeing places being sold. Hynes on Manor Street, my usernames local haunt for example.

When pubs do open, it won't be a free for all. A lot of the licensing laws will be amended I reckon. Hopefully the 11pm closing time stays with us. No need for anyone to be out past that time getting hammered. A&Es and Garda drunk tanks have never been emptier. I think a lot on government are seeing the cost of a "pub culture" is a lot higher than what it brings in.

Not to mention the loss of productivity with lads heading to work hanging on a Monday morning.

I think our new society post-covid will be a lot healthier and happier.

If people want to insist on gulling down quantities of cheap cider they can do it in their own living rooms.

Programme for government actually has licensing laws becoming more modern in line with the rest of Europe and later opening hours.

To suggest that the 11pm close will stay is quite frankly foolish.

If you think things will change massively I think your in for a shock

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2020 03:45PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im not pretending to not understand anything. Heres my issue.

if the laws are about stopping people piling on top of each other - pennys and a lot of low end, non essential retail should be closed too

if the laws are about sitting around for a long time socialising causing infection spread - coffee shops should be closed too

if its about deciding what to close to just limit whats open in general then a lot more things including the pub should be closed.

The non food pubs in Dublin have been shut since march, no matter what angle or reason you put on it, if its about limiting infections, interactions, time spent socialising etc.. other things should also have remained closed in tandem with the pubs. Clearly that has not happened and I think the non food pubs should have had the same rules as coffee shops and food pubs, all open or all closed.

The non food pubs have absolutely been used as a punching bag by the government during this.

Still pretending you don’t get the actual issue? Props for the dedication to your doublethink.

You know the real reason (the main difference between a pub and a cafe) and you didn’t include it in your list because you’re playing pretend. This reflects very badly on you and a poster. Very disingenuous.

dominatinMC · 28-12-2020 04:22PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Covid has seen a shift in the way people work, with working from home and a hybrid approach being totally accepted.

I really think we're going to see a shift in the drinking culture here too. There'll be far less of lads spending their "Stephenses" day packed in to a depressing pub watching English soccer and drinking large quantities of mass produced lagers.

A more reasoned approach to drinking with families popping by to the local gastro pub which has a nice selection of local brews or good wines to grab a nice meal of local produce. It will probably cost a lot more, but people will go less often. Pubs will be fewer but they will be better and more welcoming and inclusive spaces.

That for me is a big positive from all this.

Two Paddy's days when Dublin city isn't full of bumbling drunkards is a great thing too. 2022 before the next "wet" Paddy's Day and I think things will be much changed by then.

The irony of this post being it resembles the kind of incoherent, stream of consciousness ramble one would hear from a local propping up a bar in a traditional pub.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Despite your obvious disdain for traditional pubs, and wishing them into irrelevance, I don't believe that will happen for a minute. As another poster rightly pointed out, there will be an even greater appreciation of them when they open. The habit of a lifetime won't be changed.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2020 04:25PM

Tantric Cola wrote: »

You seem to find it difficult to resist attacking posters personally. You should take time to consider why that is.

As a general rule if someone has a valid argument they should be able debate the points being made using those arguments and not resort to attacking people personally.

Ah yeah, but pretending to understand the fundamental reason for treating pubs and cafes differently (the central point of the thread) is bad behaviour, and should be labelled as such.

kippy · 28-12-2020 04:43PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im not pretending to not understand anything. Heres my issue.

if the laws are about stopping people piling on top of each other - pennys and a lot of low end, non essential retail should be closed too

if the laws are about sitting around for a long time socialising causing infection spread - coffee shops should be closed too

if its about deciding what to close to just limit whats open in general then a lot more things including the pub should be closed.

The non food pubs in Dublin have been shut since march, no matter what angle or reason you put on it, if its about limiting infections, interactions, time spent socialising etc.. other things should also have remained closed in tandem with the pubs. Clearly that has not happened and I think the non food pubs should have had the same rules as coffee shops and food pubs, all open or all closed.

The non food pubs have absolutely been used as a punching bag by the government during this.

Why have them all open or all closed if the risk profiles and environmental factors are completely different.
In reality the safest environment is the one we had back in late March. Everything closed, 2k limits etc but for various reasons it's not feasible or appropriate to maintain that.

I note you've still not addressed the query imposed earlier today.

weldoninhio · 28-12-2020 05:29PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Very unlikely mate.

Pubs will be shut til summer at least. I'm already seeing places being sold. Hynes on Manor Street, my usernames local haunt for example.

When pubs do open, it won't be a free for all. A lot of the licensing laws will be amended I reckon. Hopefully the 11pm closing time stays with us. No need for anyone to be out past that time getting hammered. A&Es and Garda drunk tanks have never been emptier. I think a lot on government are seeing the cost of a "pub culture" is a lot higher than what it brings in.

Not to mention the loss of productivity with lads heading to work hanging on a Monday morning.

I think our new society post-covid will be a lot healthier and happier.

If people want to insist on gulling down quantities of cheap cider they can do it in their own living rooms.

May as well dream here as in bed buddy.

Coillte_Bhoy · 28-12-2020 05:51PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I think a lot on government are seeing the cost of a "pub culture" is a lot higher than what it brings in.

So what are you basing this observation on? Have you been talking to people in Govt or what?

Pintman Paddy Losty · 28-12-2020 06:20PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So what are you basing this observation on? Have you been talking to people in Govt or what?

I'm in a FG WhatsApp group and there's been some talk of a new approach to public alcohol consumption post covid. Nothing decided obviously but the benefits are obvious.

kippy · 28-12-2020 06:29PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm in a FG WhatsApp group and there's been some talk of a new approach to public alcohol consumption post covid. Nothing decided obviously but the benefits are obvious.

An FG WhatsApp group......
Seriously.....if you are here as a WUM try not to be so obvious

Eric Cartman · 28-12-2020 06:36PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Still pretending you don’t get the actual issue? Props for the dedication to your doublethink.

You know the real reason (the main difference between a pub and a cafe) and you didn’t include it in your list because you’re playing pretend. This reflects very badly on you and a poster. Very disingenuous.

you keep saying 'the real reason' without explaining it.

what, in your mind is the difference between a cafe and a non food pub with regards risk.

and if you insist on the fantasy world where everyone in the pub is blotto drunk, I'm insisting on the fantasy world where everyone in the coffee shop is a 15 year old kid out with their mates from different houses and not giving a hoot. We either play the game accurately where those extremes are a tiny minority (the reality) or we play it where both extremes are in full swing.

MOH · 28-12-2020 06:36PM

kippy wrote: »

Alcohol impacts human behaviour. Human behaviour impacts virus transmission.

Do you deny either of the two facts above?

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

its highly unlikely you would see many people leave a coffee shop head stright for a cramped over crowded takaway all at the same time espically at night hang around town until 5 am and forget compleatly about this whole pandemic lark

Allinall wrote: »

people tend to spend a lot longer in pubs, and tend to drink alcohol which lowers inhibitions, which in turn increases the chances of picking up, or spreading the virus.

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

so people would have still gone out at 10pm had the pub being alowed open untill 11:D

look people would have just started drinking earlier if the pubs were closing earlier

None of these are relevant to opening all pubs with the same restrictions as restaurants and food pubs - 105 minutes, limited groups, no multiple table bookings, etc.

kippy · 28-12-2020 06:39PM

MOH wrote: »

None of these are relevant to opening all pubs with the same restrictions as restaurants and food pubs - 105 minutes, limited groups, no multiple table bookings, etc.

Of course alcohol is relevant......
And unfortunately the fact that some people don't seem to be able to comprehend this is also another reason the choices have to be taken away from people.....

hynesie08 · 28-12-2020 06:48PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm in a FG WhatsApp group and there's been some talk of a new approach to public alcohol consumption post covid. Nothing decided obviously but the benefits are obvious.

I'm in a FF WhatsApp group, they said FG are dry ****es who are FFs lapdogs and when everyone is vaccinated it's free into Coppers for a week......

Ted_YNWA · 28-12-2020 06:49PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm in a FG WhatsApp group and there's been some talk of a new approach to public alcohol consumption post covid. Nothing decided obviously but the benefits are obvious.

Mod

Don't post unsubstantiated rumours like this. All this is doing is trolling & winding posters up.

Post any evidence of this when it comes to pass. I heard it on Whatsapp is akin to ' man down the pub told me' (no pun intended)

cityboyjim · 28-12-2020 06:51PM

Everybody still missing the simple solution .Open with restricted numbers in covid free locations .Locations of new cases should be flagged every evening on a county by county map .Where there is a case nearby, close until its clear then open again with the restricted numbers .Sure we havent a clue where the cases are .

Ted_YNWA · 28-12-2020 06:51PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

I'm in a FF WhatsApp group, they said FG are dry ****es who are FFs lapdogs and when everyone is vaccinated it's free into Coppers for a week......

I heard it in a Mods whatsapp, parodies aren't funny the second time either

kippy · 28-12-2020 06:53PM

cityboyjim wrote: »

Everybody still missing the simple solution .Open with restricted numbers in covid free locations .Locations of new cases should be flagged every evening on a county by county map .Where there is a case nearby, close until its clear then open again with the restricted numbers .Sure we havent a clue where the cases are .

You reckon stocking and staffing can work under those ideal conditions? What about travel.....
Try all about an airy fairy solution.

Gardesana Pecher · 28-12-2020 06:54PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

I'm in a FF WhatsApp group, they said FG are dry ****es who are FFs lapdogs and when everyone is vaccinated it's free into Coppers for a week......

No mod notes on unsubstantiated rumours on this one? Or is it only FG whatsapp that's protected?

lukas8888 · 28-12-2020 06:54PM

kippy wrote: »

Of course alcohol is relevant......
And unfortunately the fact that some people don't seem to be able to comprehend this is also another reason the choices have to be taken away from people.....

Not much different than the bored mammy's gathering in groups at their overpriced coffee cafes gossiping for hours about their upcoming trips or newly purchased designer clothes.

hynesie08 · 28-12-2020 06:57PM

Gardesana Pecher wrote: »

No mod notes on unsubstantiated rumours on this one? Or is it only FG whatsapp that's protected?

2 posts above yours lad, I got my slap on the wrist, no need to call teacher.....

Ted_YNWA · 28-12-2020 06:57PM

Gardesana Pecher wrote: »

No mod notes on unsubstantiated rumours on this one? Or is it only FG whatsapp that's protected?

That was clearly a parody post. No mod note required.

And back on topic please.

cityboyjim · 28-12-2020 06:59PM

When your talking about stocking a Bar you forget it can be got at a days notice .An hours notice in most parts of Ireland .Remember your not stocking for weeks on end .A warm safe place for 15 local people to actually sit and chat .I am sure if there is no Powers they will drink Paddy .Not talking about a money making exercise either .Let the owner keep the PUP .Cannot see the difference between a busy shop and a safe well controlled Bar .Baffles me to be honest .

kippy · 28-12-2020 07:01PM

cityboyjim wrote: »

When your talking about stocking a Bar you forget it can be got at a days notice .An hours notice in most parts of Ireland .Remember your not stocking for weeks on end .A warm safe place for 15 local people to actually sit and chat .I am sure if there is no Powers they will drink Paddy .Not talking about a money making exercise either .Let the owner keep the PUP .Cannot see the difference between a busy shop and a safe well controlled Bar .Baffles me to be honest .

How does the barman implement the 'local' people rule?
There's a world of difference between them but not being able to see it, is part of the problem in the first instance

hynesie08 · 28-12-2020 07:03PM

cityboyjim wrote: »

When your talking about stocking a Bar you forget it can be got at a days notice .An hours notice in most parts of Ireland .Remember your not stocking for weeks on end .A warm safe place for 15 local people to actually sit and chat .I am sure if there is no Powers they will drink Paddy .Not talking about a money making exercise either .Let the owner keep the PUP .Cannot see the difference between a busy shop and a safe well controlled Bar .Baffles me to be honest .

That's a shebeen........

cityboyjim · 28-12-2020 07:08PM

A Shebeen is an unlicenced and unregulated premises that the authorities know nothing about .Big difference .The Publicans in rural Ireland know their customers .Three mile radius sorts that .

MadYaker · 28-12-2020 07:35PM

I think its worth remembering that since this started in March the vaccine timeline has been accelerating all the time and as more vaccines get approved by the EU it will continue to accelerate. I think pubs will be open as normal by autumn.

GazzaL · 28-12-2020 07:36PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

That's a shebeen........

Even the kids are at it.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2020 07:38PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you keep saying 'the real reason' without explaining it.

what, in your mind is the difference between a cafe and a non food pub with regards risk.

and if you insist on the fantasy world where everyone in the pub is blotto drunk, I'm insisting on the fantasy world where everyone in the coffee shop is a 15 year old kid out with their mates from different houses and not giving a hoot. We either play the game accurately where those extremes are a tiny minority (the reality) or we play it where both extremes are in full swing.

Eric, you’re embarrassing yourself by pretending you don’t know the difference between a pub and a cafe. But I’ll play the game and explain the reason to YouTube difference between a pub and a cafe, is the fact that a pub sells alcohol. Alcohol has the tendency to change people’s behaviour. It causes people to be less cautious, feel less vulnerable, overestimate their ability to do things and lower inhibitions.

I don’t assume anyone needs to be ”blotto drunk” for the same reason that we have drink driving laws that don’t only penalise divers who are “blotto drunk”. Alcohol significantly changes behaviour without anyone being “blotto drunk”. You can make any assumptions you think will help your case, I’ll just stick to reality.

Difference between a wet pub and dry pub is less dramatic. Food is somewhat essential, and drink isn’t. Food is necessary for a lot of people working who need to buy food. But I think dry pubs are lucky to be able to open, there’s a good case for treating them the same as all pubs.

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Comments