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Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

1…326327328329330332»

Comments

  • #9932
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    What facts have you got to show that there is loads of crime caused by DP centres?

    Non EU migrants have exponentially higher offending rates than native Irish people
    poor people have exponentially higher offending rates than the gainfully employed.
    Less than 2% of the migrants entering europe have even set foot in a university, education is a big problem. Lower education leads to more crime.

    Just like the ingredients for fire are oxygen, fuel and heat, the ingredients for crime are often poverty, lack of education and whatever cultural attributes make non EU immigrants more crime prone, its the perfect formula for crime,

    I don't have a CSO document to say it specifically happens but every metric we know about the causes of crime suggests it would increase crime.


  • #9933
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Non EU migrants have exponentially higher offending rates than native Irish people
    poor people have exponentially higher offending rates than the gainfully employed.
    Less than 2% of the migrants entering europe have even set foot in a university, education is a big problem. Lower education leads to more crime.

    Just like the ingredients for fire are oxygen, fuel and heat, the ingredients for crime are often poverty, lack of education and whatever cultural attributes make non EU immigrants more crime prone, its the perfect formula for crime,

    I don't have a CSO document to say it specifically happens but every metric we know about the causes of crime suggests it would increase crime.
    So you don't have proof that the introduction of a DP center increases crime in an area...


  • #9934
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So you don't have proof that the introduction of a DP center increases crime in an area...

    I do have proof that non EU migrants increase crime...and what do DP centres house....


  • #9935
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I do have proof that non EU migrants increase crime...and what do DP centres house....

    That doesn't remotely guarantee that direct provision residents are more likely to commit crimes. By your logic anyone not from the EU are by default increasing the crime rate of an area(not specifically refugees btw). The risk of deportation to a country they're fleeing is more likely to put a person off committing crimes I'd suspect. The fact you could not produce a single link between increases in crime and direct provision means that your original claim is nonsense.

    Btw, the only increase in crime I've seen are increases in arson from racists... But you seem to view that as half justified.


  • #9936
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That doesn't remotely guarantee that direct provision residents are more likely to commit crimes. By your logic anyone not from the EU are by default increasing the crime rate of an area(not specifically refugees btw). The risk of deportation to a country they're fleeing is more likely to put a person off committing crimes I'd suspect. The fact you could not produce a single link between increases in crime and direct provision means that your original claim is nonsense.

    Btw, the only increase in crime I've seen are increases in arson from racists... But you seem to view that as half justified.

    the statistical evidence shows that they do. Well not from America or Norway, but Africa, South America and arab countries/ some asian countries yes.

    there is almost no risk of deportation and they well know it.

    as above, its no deterrent and one you definitely have no proof for.

    Heres just a handful of asylum seekers who spent time before a judge :
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/asylum-seeker-charged-with-trafficking-illegal-immigrant-39772778.html
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/bail-granted-to-asylum-seeker-1.165798?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fbail-granted-to-asylum-seeker-1.165798
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/woman-set-free-in-brothel-case-1.130162?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fwoman-set-free-in-brothel-case-1.130162
    https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/115774/Asylum-seeker-charged-with-assaulting-Limerick.html
    https://www.mayonews.ie/news/29328-asylum-seeker-accused-of-rape-not-a-flight-risk


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  • #9937
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I do have proof that non EU migrants increase crime...and what do DP centres house....

    Oh, really? What's the proof?

    Do the guards know this?

    I mean, do we need to have loads more guards stationed around the Gresham and the Shelbourne in March, when there are loads of non EU migrants around?

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  • #9938
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    the statistical evidence shows that they do. Well not from America or Norway, but Africa, South America and arab countries/ some asian countries yes.

    there is almost no risk of deportation and they well know it.

    as above, its no deterrent and one you definitely have no proof for.

    And you still haven't established that direct provision centers are responsible for crime in any area. It seems to be based on your Spidey sense more than anything which veers in particularly bigoted directions...


  • #9939
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I do have proof that non EU migrants increase crime...and what do DP centres house....

    No, you actually dont.


  • #9940
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    the statistical evidence shows that they do. Well not from America or Norway, but Africa, South America and arab countries/ some asian countries yes.

    there is almost no risk of deportation and they well know it.

    as above, its no deterrent and one you definitely have no proof for.


    Do we have a large Norwegian population?!

    You keep throwing out these "You have no proof!" statements then claiming "I have proof" - yet never seem to offer any of it.

    Do you know the % of successful and unsuccessful claims for asylum? The number of deportations made? The crime rates allegedly committed by people in DP? (Strange, you make no mention of the people in DP centres working in nursing homes, or volunteering with charities, or anything that benefits society... odd, that...)

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  • #9941
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Non EU migrants have exponentially higher offending rates than native Irish people
    poor people have exponentially higher offending rates than the gainfully employed.
    Less than 2% of the migrants entering europe have even set foot in a university, education is a big problem. Lower education leads to more crime.

    Just like the ingredients for fire are oxygen, fuel and heat, the ingredients for crime are often poverty, lack of education and whatever cultural attributes make non EU immigrants more crime prone, its the perfect formula for crime,

    I don't have a CSO document to say it specifically happens but every metric we know about the causes of crime suggests it would increase crime.

    Basically non existent waffle

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #9942
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I do have proof that non EU migrants increase crime...and what do DP centres house....

    You do in your sh ite

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #9943
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    You do in your sh ite

    https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mostly-true-asylum-seekers-and-refugees-are-clearly-over-represented-in-both-sexual-assaults-and-aggression-offences/

    https://www.irishprisons.ie/wp-content/uploads/documents_pdf/NATIONALITY-GROUP-Year-2007-to-Year-2019.pdf
    537420.jpeg

    from : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland
    Ethnic groups
    Irish 82.2%, Irish travellers 0.7%, other white 9.5%, Asian 2.1%, black 1.4%, other 1.5%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)[20]

    so Africans are over representing more than 2x in prisons,
    Asians 1.5x more
    Irish people under representing by stats.


  • #9944
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    You do in your sh ite

    Non-EU migrants are over represented in crime statistics (particularly of a sexual nature) whether you want to believe it or not. However, in specifically with regards to Ireland, whether this means that DP centres increase crime rates of the area they are in is debatable (I think it's unlikely).


  • #9945
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mostly-true-asylum-seekers-and-refugees-are-clearly-over-represented-in-both-sexual-assaults-and-aggression-offences/

    Firstly, this point seems relevant. Secondly, can you point to an increase in crimes as a result of direct provision centers? Cause last time I checked we're in Ireland rather than Germany. You're pushing a claim that you can't prove at all... Blind to your own hate tbh.
    The criminal statistics of the state Baden-Württemberg support Weidel’s claim. However, we rate this claim only as mostly true because it does not account for the fact that the vast majority of refugees and asylum seekers do not commit such crimes.


  • #9946
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Firstly, this point seems relevant. Secondly, can you point to an increase in crimes as a result of direct provision centers? Cause last time I checked we're in Ireland rather than Germany. You're pushing a claim that you can't prove at all... Blind to your own hate tbh.

    literally that was their only counter point, 'yeah they do lots more crimes, but not all of them are criminals' so its only 'mostly true'


  • #9947
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Non-EU migrants are over represented in crime statistics (particularly of a sexual nature) whether you want to believe it or not.
    Would you care to show these statistics please?


  • #9948
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    literally that was their only counter point, 'yeah they do lots more crimes, but not all of them are criminals' so its only 'mostly true'

    Weird, you're dodging providing proof that direct provision centers are responsible for an increase in crime in the locality in Ireland... If you're not gonna provide any, we can conclude you were pushing nonsense...


  • #9949
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Weird, you're dodging providing proof that direct provision centers are responsible for an increase in crime in the locality in Ireland... If you're not gonna provide any, we can conclude you were pushing nonsense...

    yet again, its a well considered fact that asylum seekers over represent in crime, non EU nationals over represent in prison stats.

    So how can you explain that taking a bunch of non EU asylum seekers and putting them in Ireland would not increase crime around where they live, especially in rural Ireland.


  • #9950
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    yet again, its a well considered fact that asylum seekers over represent in crime, non EU nationals over represent in prison stats.

    So how can you explain that taking a bunch of non EU asylum seekers and putting them in Ireland would not increase crime around where they live, especially in rural Ireland.
    It's incredible that they've increased crime in locality but nobody ever noticed.... You can't find stats, studies or anything to back it up for Ireland. That's pretty strange. But I'm inclined to say you're pushing nonsense that you assumed was true and are pushing it in spite of the fact that you can't prove it.


  • #9951
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's incredible that they've increased crime in locality but nobody ever noticed.... You can't find stats, studies or anything to back it up for Ireland. That's pretty strange. But I'm inclined to say you're pushing nonsense that you assumed was true and are pushing it in spite of the fact that you can't prove it.

    see heres the issue, if I got together 1, 5, 50, 100 people who had noticed , the evidence would be dismissed as anecdotal, Im not going to find a college in the land who would allow the result to pass as a thesis, the CSO aren't going to give me a table that directly correlates 'what ethnicities/nationalities do the most crime, so I had to use multiple reference points and build the conclusion from the well sourced tables above.

    There are lots of publications in Germany, the UK, Sweden, Norway who have the balls to call it out for what it is, but you won't accept that either. Our asylum seekers, despite originating from the same countries are magically different and won't over represent in crime like they have in the rest of europe.


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  • #9952
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There a lot of different factors that come into play in each country I imagine. You can't back up the claim, this is the reality... Perhaps some locations do have a minor increase in crime as a result of a tiny number of people but you can't even establish that. Whatever the case, you made out the Asylum seekers are dreadful for localities due to crimes.. This pretty clearly isn't the case.

    It's a tad sad to argue a point where you have a complete absence of evidence


  • #9953
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So how can you explain that taking a bunch of non EU asylum seekers and putting them in Ireland would not increase crime around where they live, especially in rural Ireland.

    Because it doesn't and it hasnt. There is no proof or evidence to your crazy ideas.

    You believe that non EU nationals are over represented in the Irish prison system, yes? Now, even if that is true, that does not mean that any crime has increased. Do you understand that?


  • #9954
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mostly-true-asylum-seekers-and-refugees-are-clearly-over-represented-in-both-sexual-assaults-and-aggression-offences/

    https://www.irishprisons.ie/wp-content/uploads/documents_pdf/NATIONALITY-GROUP-Year-2007-to-Year-2019.pdf
    537420.jpeg

    from : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland
    Ethnic groups
    Irish 82.2%, Irish travellers 0.7%, other white 9.5%, Asian 2.1%, black 1.4%, other 1.5%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)[20]

    so Africans are over representing more than 2x in prisons,
    Asians 1.5x more
    Irish people under representing by stats.

    That is not evidence that non EU migrants increase crime.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #9955
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,513 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    yet again, its a well considered fact that asylum seekers over represent in crime, non EU nationals over represent in prison stats.
    If it's a "well considered fact" provide some link/evidence

    If not, it's purely your opinion


  • #9956
    Beau Rich Luck
    Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Beau Rich Luck


    Just because it occurs there doesn’t mean it with here or other places.


  • #9957
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mostly-true-asylum-seekers-and-refugees-are-clearly-over-represented-in-both-sexual-assaults-and-aggression-offences/

    https://www.irishprisons.ie/wp-content/uploads/documents_pdf/NATIONALITY-GROUP-Year-2007-to-Year-2019.pdf
    537420.jpeg

    from : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland
    Ethnic groups
    Irish 82.2%, Irish travellers 0.7%, other white 9.5%, Asian 2.1%, black 1.4%, other 1.5%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)[20]

    so Africans are over representing more than 2x in prisons,
    Asians 1.5x more
    Irish people under representing by stats.


    Ah, right, so,
    a) you're assuming all black people are African;

    b) you're ignoring the fact that the prison population of people of African origin has fallen for the last three years; and

    c) if we were to apply your warped logic, we'd look for more Muslims to immigrate, as they're far less likely to end up in prison, per head of population.

    /golfclap

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  • #9958
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I started this thread only 18 months and 10k posts ago and now I can't even remember the time when she wasn't totally wacko


  • #9959
    Hellotonever
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 193 ✭✭Hellotonever


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mostly-true-asylum-seekers-and-refugees-are-clearly-over-represented-in-both-sexual-assaults-and-aggression-offences/

    https://www.irishprisons.ie/wp-content/uploads/documents_pdf/NATIONALITY-GROUP-Year-2007-to-Year-2019.pdf
    537420.jpeg

    from : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland
    Ethnic groups
    Irish 82.2%, Irish travellers 0.7%, other white 9.5%, Asian 2.1%, black 1.4%, other 1.5%, unspecified 2.6% (2016 est.)[20]

    so Africans are over representing more than 2x in prisons,
    Asians 1.5x more
    Irish people under representing by stats.

    I always wonder why Asians are an umbrella term that include primarily muslim nations. I dont know any Koreans or Japanese migrants committing crime here.


  • #9960
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,513 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    New thread here


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