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Dublin - Significant reduction in rents coming?

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    #2342
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    BryanMartin21 wrote: »
    You seem to be trying to build a wall in order to block out how the price increases are being described.
    Nope, just trying to say that the description is accurate. You seem to be applying some emotional context to it which seems very strange and I don't understand it.
    BryanMartin21 wrote: »
    Would you describe the continued rental increases as a good or bad thing?
    In what context? Changes in rental prices is the same as changes to interest rates or share prices etc. You seem to be applying a personal perspective, and asking me to do the same but, from a personal perspective, it all depends on whether you are borrowing/saving or going long/short on a share.


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    #2343
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Ozark707 wrote: »
    Surely someone who would be interested in buying blocks would check out occupancy levels as part of their due diligence.
    More likley they are buying shares (or some fancy financial derivitive) for which the blocks are just one part. Smoke, mirrors, etc.


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    #2344
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Supply and demand. As another poster pointed out, it wasn’t that long ago when there was loads of supply and rents were much lower, no one complained that rents should be kept high when demand was low. Incidentally, rates of government assistance are a contributing factor to high rents. I do appreciate that saving is difficult when renting, but the reality is many people who rent could not afford to buy a house by themselves where they rent.


    I remember so many people, myself included delighted in the fact we were getting great rentals in great areas for tuppence.
    Saying you are mad to buy a house. Rent forever.
    The tide turned, as it always does. Pretty sure there will be a swing in the oppsoite direction at some point again. Put could be a year away could be decades away. Better off just going for certainty where you can.


    What would happen if governments just stopped paying landlords to rent their properties. Probably mass homelessness first. Followed by landlords and reits selling up and gtfo. Followed by house price crash, so cheaper houses and apartments for those who can afford to buy. Still leaving those who cant afford to buy homeless. There would be a hell of a lot of misery down that road.


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    #2345
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Ozark707 wrote: »
    Surely someone who would be interested in buying blocks would check out occupancy levels as part of their due diligence.


    You make it sound like they dont know their own business :)


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    #2346
    BryanMartin21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭BryanMartin21


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Supply and demand. As another poster pointed out, it wasn’t that long ago when there was loads of supply and rents were much lower, no one complained that rents should be kept high when demand was low. Incidentally, rates of government assistance are a contributing factor to high rents. I do appreciate that saving is difficult when renting, but the reality is many people who rent could not afford to buy a house by themselves where they rent.

    Yes, it is a supply and demand issue for sure. But not as a justification for market rent levels, instead an explanation for the hyper, bubble-type growth the last few years.

    There is nothing wrong with far more rentals than people would like, that would be the ideal scenario in fact. Asset owners still own the asset and renters have far more choice which would lead to a more stable rental market. I think we are generally in agreement that supply being muted and demand exploding is the reason for the curennt issues.


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    #2347
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    BryanMartin21 wrote: »
    Yes, it is a supply and demand issue for sure. But not as a justification for market rent levels, instead an explanation for the hyper, bubble-type growth the last few years.

    There is nothing wrong with far more rentals than people would like, that would be the ideal scenario in fact. Asset owners still own the asset and renters have far more choice which would lead to a more stable rental market. I think we are generally in agreement that supply being muted and demand exploding is the reason for the curennt issues.


    How are you going to get to that?


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    #2348
    Timing belt
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    How are you going to get to that?

    If the government actually built houses instead of paying HAP a lot of rental properties would become available. But the likely hood of that happening is slim to none.


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    #2349
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,268 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    BryanMartin21 wrote: »
    Yes, it is a supply and demand issue for sure. But not as a justification for market rent levels.

    Justification is exactly what it is. Property renting is a business with taxable income, so charging market rate (within regs) for a service in demand is no different to any other business sector. Would lowering rents if supply increased be justified?


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    #2350
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Timing belt wrote: »
    If the government actually built houses instead of paying HAP a lot of rental properties would become available. But the likely hood of that happening is slim to none.


    You make it sound so easy.
    I wonder why they havent done that :)


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    #2351
    Ozark707
    Registered Users Posts: 947 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    You make it sound like they dont know their own business :)

    Nice business so if you don't care so much about cashflow I suppose.


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    #2352
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Timing belt wrote: »
    If the government actually built houses instead of paying HAP a lot of rental properties would become available. But the likely hood of that happening is slim to none.

    Where do all the hap tenants live while they build thousands of houses?


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    #2353
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,268 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Where do all the hap tenants live while they build thousands of houses?

    Hapland?


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    #2354
    agoodpunt
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭agoodpunt


    Timing belt wrote: »
    If the government actually built houses instead of paying HAP a lot of rental properties would become available. But the likely hood of that happening is slim to none.


    Getting a large portion of that HAP allowance back in tax and having those tenancies managed by a private LL V cost of build, manage and an efficient rent collection current net arrears of 33m in dublin alone as of sept 20 HAP is still the cheapest option but does not have the forever choice location free house


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    #2355
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Hapland?
    Look, you can call it whatever you want, but it's still BallyFinglas :pac:
    Timing belt wrote: »
    If the government actually built houses instead of paying HAP a lot of rental properties would become available. But the likely hood of that happening is slim to none.
    They'll want Hapland built in D4, with D11 rents. Otherwise they'll turn down the recommendation, and stay where they are.
    agoodpunt wrote: »
    net arrears of 33m in dublin alone
    If there's no chance of eviction, why pay the rent?


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    #2356
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the_syco wrote:
    If there's no chance of eviction, why pay the rent?


    So where do they go then?


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    #2357
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    So where do they go then?

    Just garnish wages/social welfare so it doesnt happen.


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    #2358
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    DubCount wrote: »
    Just garnish wages/social welfare so it doesnt happen.

    maybe increase welfare, then deduct it at source


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    #2359
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    maybe increase welfare, then deduct it at source

    Give up collecting the rent altogether seems most likely


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    #2360
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    maybe increase welfare, then deduct it at source
    That means non-welfare renters have even less money.. :(


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    #2361
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    PommieBast wrote: »
    That means non-welfare renters have even less money.. :(

    how?


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    #2362
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,268 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    how?

    Where do you think money for increased welfare payment to cover rent comes from?


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    #2363
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Where do you think money for increased welfare payment to cover rent comes from?

    bond markets


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    #2364
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What do you think happens rents for people who pay their own rent, when people who get heavily subsidised get a nice rise?

    Come now, you know all this.


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    #2365
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What do you think happens rents for people who pay their own rent, when people who get heavily subsidised get a nice rise?

    Come now, you know all this.

    so if welfare gets an increase that equals rent rates, and this increase is paid directly towards rents at source, what will happen none welfare rental markets?


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    #2366
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,542 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    bond markets

    The government should stop taking PAYE out of my wages every week then shouldnt it?


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    #2367
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    The government should stop taking PAYE out of my wages every week then shouldnt it?

    how would that maintain our debt obligations, and sustain our economy?


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    #2368
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    bond markets
    Bonds is a captive market of pension funds and insurance companies who are legally required to buy them.



    Now guess why insurance pemiums are rocketing and pension fund yields underwater.


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    #2369
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    PommieBast wrote: »
    Bonds is a captive market of pension funds and insurance companies who are legally required to buy them.



    Now guess why insurance pemiums are rocketing and pension fund yields underwater.

    im sure the fact we have a highly dysfunctional property market has a good reason to do with it, with every younger generation requiring ever more of their income to service their property needs, rental and purchasing, means more are finding it difficult to get involved in pension markets earlier in life, and having less to invest in them also when they eventually do, thus leading to crap pension fund yields......


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    #2370
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    im sure the fact we have a highly dysfunctional property market has a good reason to do with it, with every younger generation requiring ever more of their income to service their property needs, rental and purchasing, means more are finding it difficult to get involved in pension markets earlier in life, and having less to invest in them also when they eventually do, thus leading to crap pension fund yields......
    Two distinct problems there, although admittedly they do both contribute to the same vicious circle.


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    #2371
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    PommieBast wrote: »
    Two distinct problems there, although admittedly they do both contribute to the same vicious circle.

    yup, these cycles need to be broken, and quickly


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