Dublin - Significant reduction in rents coming?

Dav010

Wanderer78 wrote: »

banks create credit, the majority of the money supply, and also forms the majority of the money used to build and purchase property, what could possible go wrong!

Wow. You must be very young.

Wanderer78

Dav010 wrote: »

Wow. You must be very young.

nope, how come?

Dav010

Wanderer78 wrote: »

nope, how come?

Because it isn’t that long ago since banks offering credit helped bring this country to its knees.

Wanderer78

Dav010 wrote: »

Because it isn’t that long ago since banks offering credit helped bring this country to its knees.

oh i know, hence why i believe we need to try prevent that from happening again, but we dont seem to want to, we dont want to seem to revert back to the states ability to borrow and create some of its own finances, defaulting to private sector created credit, which ultimately lead us into the previous 'credit crisis'

Timing belt

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I could never afford to buy a house in Dalkey.
Does that mean that the Dalkey house market is dysfunctional?

If my pay does not allow me to purchase something I will have to look elsewhere for cheaper. I don't have a right to buy a house in Dalkey.

I'd also like to purchase a Ferrari but I can only afford VW Passat. Is the car market dysfunctional?

Just get the government to borrow it on the bond market and give you a house dalkey and a Ferrari. As your at it give up your job and stop paying tax we can borrow for that as well with public debt.....meanwhile in the real world people work and pay tax.

Timing belt

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh i know, hence why i believe we need to try prevent that from happening again, but we dont seem to want to, we dont want to seem to revert back to the states ability to borrow and create some of its own finances, defaulting to private sector created credit, which ultimately lead us into the previous 'credit crisis'

Here is an idea maybe get more people working and paying tax so the burden is shared equally and government can provide the services needed. Just a thought as alternative to the government borrowing debt...you never know it might work

Wanderer78

Timing belt wrote: »

Just get the government to borrow it on the bond market and give you a house dalkey and a Ferrari. As your at it give up your job and stop paying tax we can borrow for that as well with public debt.....meanwhile in the real world people work and pay tax.

so the real world is governments buying ferraris and houses in dalkey, and encouraging people to give up working and stop paying taxes, yea?

Wanderer78

Timing belt wrote: »

Here is an idea maybe get more people working and paying tax so the burden is shared equally and government can provide the services needed. Just a thought as alternative to the government borrowing debt...you never know it might work

heres another idea, implement wealth taxes, including in relation to property and land, such as a land value tax, encouraging an increase in wage inflation, both should help to bring these two back in line, do you really think your approach will be able to fill the gap required?

Timing belt

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so the real world is governments buying ferraris and houses in dalkey, and encouraging people to give up working and stop paying taxes, yea?

No in the real world people should be trying to help themselves instead of expecting the government to provide everything

Wanderer78

Timing belt wrote: »

No in the real world people should be trying to help themselves instead of expecting the government to provide everything

true, but the reality is, we dont all have the same abilities or opportunities in life, once again, particular members of boards actually cant even hide their prejudices!

Dav010

Wanderer78 wrote: »

heres another idea, implement wealth taxes, including in relation to property and land, such as a land value tax, encouraging an increase in wage inflation, both should help to bring these two back in line, do you really think your approach will be able to fill the gap required?

Isn’t there income tax and property tax at the moment? And wouldn’t wage inflation inevitably lead to general inflation, including property?

Wanderer78

Dav010 wrote: »

Isn’t there income tax and property tax at the moment? And wouldn’t wage inflation inevitably lead to general inflation, including property?

they arent wealth taxes, theres virtually none in Ireland, particularly in relation to property and land. we re currently entering a period of deflation, central banks have been unable to achieve inflation via their programs, qe etc. we ve been experiencing a prolong period of high asset price inflation, most notably in property and land, and low wage inflation, hence our growing problems in these areas, its leading to growing anger, frustration, resentment and complex voting outcomes

Dav010

Wanderer78 wrote: »

they arent wealth taxes, theres virtually none in Ireland, particularly in relation to property and land. we re currently entering a period of deflation, central banks have been unable to achieve inflation via their programs, qe etc. we ve been experiencing a prolong period of high asset price inflation, most notably in property and land, and low wage inflation, hence our growing problems in these areas, its leading to growing anger, frustration, resentment and complex voting outcomes

There is tax on the income, inheritance and capital gains, these are taxes on wealth. There has always been anger, frustration and resentment about wealth and property, again, this is not a new phenomenon. As for complex voting outcomes, has anything changed?

Wanderer78

Dav010 wrote: »

There is tax on the income, inheritance and capital gains, these are taxes on wealth. There has always been anger, frustration and resentment about wealth and property, again, this is not a new phenomenon.

theres virtually no taxes on property and land in this country, such as an lvt. take a good look around, and not just in ireland, its the same problem, parties such as sf are on the move, if you dont want them in government..... we re all ending up in the same situation, the average earner being unable to get access to their property needs, this didnt happen by accident! we re all entering into unsustainable periods of rising wealth inequality, be prepared!

The_Conductor

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theres virtually no taxes on property and land in this country, such as an lvt. take a good look around, and not just in ireland, its the same problem, parties such as sf are on the move, if you dont want them in government..... we re all ending up in the same situation, the average earner being unable to get access to their property needs, this didnt happen by accident! we re all entering into unsustainable periods of rising wealth inequality, be prepared!

We need to up the LPT- however, we also need a proper local authority tax, paid by the residents of local authority areas, wholly separate to the LPT. The current situation where everyone expects everything handed to them on a silver platter, is unsustainable.

If interest rates ever rise, even to historically modest levels, in this country- we are so so screwed.

Manion

The_Conductor wrote: »

We need to up the LPT- however, we also need a proper local authority tax, paid by the residents of local authority areas, wholly separate to the LPT. The current situation where everyone expects everything handed to them on a silver platter, is unsustainable.

If interest rates ever rise, even to historically modest levels, in this country- we are so so screwed.

Increases in LPT in Dublin will always be unpopular as long as a portion of the collected tax in Dublin is transferred. Why would we need another local authority tax when the LPT was meant to cover same.

The_Conductor

Manion wrote: »

Increases in LPT in Dublin will always be unpopular as long as a portion of the collected tax in Dublin is transferred. Why would we need another local authority tax when the LPT was meant to cover same.

I'd suggest that the LPT be renamed into a 'wealth tax' (of sorts) and the local authorities actually be funded by a taxation paid for by the residents of the local authority (and the local authorities are free to set the level as they will- without any transfer to other LA areas).

Dublin property owners would undoubtedly pay a multiple of what other residents would pay based on the value of their property- however, residents of Leitrim or Galway or elsewhere- would pay a multiple of what Dublin residents would pay- for the LA tax, as the cost of supplying services is significantly higher in lower density areas.

The government have promised they would not increase income tax- so this would be a manner of safeguarding central exchequer funding, given the frankly ridiculous spending they have signed up for..........

Marius34

Property or Wealth tax unlikely to increase residential supply.
I can't see how rental prices would go significantly down without increase in supply.

Fol20

Marius34 wrote: »

Property or Wealth tax unlikely to increase residential supply.
I can't see how rental prices would go significantly down without increase in supply.

these taxes may decrease supply further. You need to entice people to join the ll side, not push them away

Ubbquittious

Property tax should be got rid of completely. It is terrible that you have to pay every year to live in your own house. Things were better before they foisted that nonsense upon us

Smouse156

Ireland is a country with low wealth taxes and high income taxes. Labour should be incentivised not land hoarding! High income taxes only encourages emigration.

I believe it would be very beneficial to society as a whole to increase the property taxes, heavily increase land taxes, actually implement the vacant site levy and look to lower income taxes.

Rich wealthy people have deluded people over time and in many countries into believing that land taxes are bad so they themselves can pay as little as possible and government funds are raised by higher and higher income taxes.

Think about logically. A vulture fund with 1000 apartments paying zero tax (bar pittance LPT) with 2000 rent slaves paying 50% on all income over 35k. If income taxes were lowered to 45% and the LPT increased, the vulture fund is the only loser (if supply and demand remain stable). But in Ireland, Hell No! Make the Vulture richer!

Dav010

Smouse156 wrote: »

Ireland is a country with low wealth taxes and high income taxes. Labour should be incentivised not land hoarding! High income taxes only encourages emigration.

I believe it would be very beneficial to society as a whole to increase the property taxes, heavily increase land taxes, actually implement the vacant site levy and look to lower income taxes.

Rich wealthy people have deluded people over time and in many countries into believing that land taxes are bad so they themselves can pay as little as possible and government funds are raised by higher and higher income taxes.

Think about logically. A vulture fund with 1000 apartments paying zero tax (bar pittance LPT) with 2000 rent slaves paying 50% on all income over 35k. If income taxes were lowered to 45% and the LPT increased, the vulture fund is the only loser (if supply and demand remain stable). But in Ireland, Hell No! Make the Vulture richer!

Think about it, vulture finds own a minuscule proportion of properties in Ireland. So, you want people who saved for years to buy a house in Dublin, which happens to be comparatively valuable, to pay higher property tax on it compared to a house 3 times the size outside Dublin?

Smouse156

Dav010 wrote: »

Think about it, vulture finds own a minuscule proportion of properties in Ireland. So, you want people who saved for years to buy a house in Dublin, which happens to be comparatively valuable, to pay higher property tax on it compared to a house 3 times the size outside Dublin?

Yes! This is the basis of a wealth tax! However, if there was a drop in income taxes this should more than offset this rise. Overall the vast majority of Irish residents would end up paying less tax overall, especially anyone working.

However, tax exiles with wealth here would be worse off

Dav010

Smouse156 wrote: »

Yes! This is the basis of a wealth tax! However, if there was a drop in income taxes this should more than offset this rise. Overall the vast majority of Irish residents would end up paying less tax overall, especially anyone working.

However, tax exiles with wealth here would be worse off

How about all those retired and unemployed people who don’t benefit from drops in income tax?

Unless you drop income tax more for people who live in Dublin and other locations with higher property values, ordinary people who saved to buy relatively modest houses in expensive areas pay more though drop in income tax is the same. Is this what you want?

Smouse156

Dav010 wrote: »

How about all those retired and unemployed people who don’t benefit from drops in income tax?

Unless you drop income tax more for people who live in Dublin and other locations with higher property values, ordinary people who saved to buy relatively modest houses in expensive areas pay more though drop in income tax is the same. Is this what you want?

Yes retired & unemployed people lose out! I never said it would benefit everyone, just society as a whole. Besides how many long term unemployed actually own their houses?

In relation to Dublin houses paying higher taxes, Dublin wages (outside public sector) are proportionally higher than the rest of Ireland and this is a contributing factor to higher house prices. Therefore they would benefit more from income tax reductions as they are likely to pay more income tax.

This is mainly about spreading the tax base and getting the richest to pay more on assets they cannot offshore. This would also make Ireland a more attractive location for high income earners who in turn pay higher taxes although it would create additional pressure on current housing market. However, long term having a larger group of high rate tax payers and having the rich paying more would benefit society as a whole.

Timing belt

Dav010 wrote: »

How about all those retired and unemployed people who don’t benefit from drops in income tax?

Unless you drop income tax more for people who live in Dublin and other locations with higher property values, ordinary people who saved to buy relatively modest houses in expensive areas pay more though drop in income tax is the same. Is this what you want?

Dublin has higher wages so would benefit more from a drop in income tax.

JimmyVik

Dav010 wrote: »

More nonsense.

There has never been a time where every person was able to buy a property in the area they prefer to live.

“Couples” are now the “plutocratic elements of society”?

There was.
2000 to 2006. But never any other time.
Problem now is everyone wants the buying power they had in those years.

JimmyVik

Smouse156 wrote: »

Yes retired & unemployed people lose out! I never said it would benefit everyone, just society as a whole. Besides how many long term unemployed actually own their houses?

In relation to Dublin houses paying higher taxes, Dublin wages (outside public sector) are proportionally higher than the rest of Ireland and this is a contributing factor to higher house prices. Therefore they would benefit more from income tax reductions as they are likely to pay more income tax.

This is mainly about spreading the tax base and getting the richest to pay more on assets they cannot offshore. This would also make Ireland a more attractive location for high income earners who in turn pay higher taxes although it would create additional pressure on current housing market. However, long term having a larger group of high rate tax payers and having the rich paying more would benefit society as a whole.

Do you know how much tax these older people paid so you could get your education and public services etc?

Dav010

JimmyVik wrote: »

There was.
2000 to 2006. But never any other time.
Problem now is everyone wants the buying power they had in those years.

No Jimmy, there wasn’t, you might think because credit was easy to get that every one who wanted to buy a house in the area of their choice was able to do so, they weren’t. The borrowing meant prices skyrocketed. But lots of people borrowed more than they could afford, thankfully the CB rules helped to curb that.

JimmyVik

Dav010 wrote: »

No Jimmy, there wasn’t, you might think because credit was easy to get that every one who wanted to buy a house in the area of their choice was able to do so, they weren’t. But lots of people borrowed more than they could afford, thankfully the CB rules helped to curb that.

Definitely in those years you could could get a house free with a box of cornflakes.
I remember I went into a broker and asked could I get a €350,000 mortgage.
They said to me, what are you at? You can get a mortgage for €700,000. Why dont you raise your expectations?


My friend came home from Australia in 2004. Worked for 3 months for a company for €600 per week, while his wife was unemployed. Applied for a mortgage and got approved and bought a 3 bed house for €250,000 with a small deposit.