Dublin - Significant reduction in rents coming?

TSQ

Dav010 wrote: »

Those Airbnb owners must be the luckiest Landlords in Ireland, 70% of them rented their properties at time when thousands are empty and demand is at its lowest for years.

There are currently 4660 full rental properties listed on Airbnb in Dublin.

Where did you get that very exact figure from? Out of curiosity, I did a search for entire property in Dublin for a week in December and there is no indication on the Airbnb site of exactly how many properties are available (300+ stated, but that could be 301 or 10,000).

cameramonkey

Graham wrote: »

Anecdotally, plenty of ex-airbnb's on the likes of Daft would suggest a significant number were put up for long-term rent. A much more likely reason than 70% of 900 landlord forging tenancy agreements.

Would make sense given the impact of Covid, never mind the approaches by LAs.

Good to see all the same.

It says "The owners of the properties were required to provide the council with tenancy agreements with their new residents, to confirm they are operating as traditional landlords, providing tenancy agreements as".


It does not say those tenancy agreements where ever provided to the council.

Dav010

TSQ wrote: »

Where did you get that very exact figure from? Out of curiosity, I did a search for entire property in Dublin for a week in December and there is no indication on the Airbnb site of exactly how many properties are available (300+ stated, but that could be 301 or 10,000).

http://insideairbnb.com/dublin/

whatnext

As with all statistics the results derived are very much influenced by the questions asked and the sequence of the questions. If they were confident of their figures or the results they were going to achieve the results would be cross referenced with RTB data.
Signed,
An Airbnb owner.

Graham

cameramonkey wrote: »

It says "The owners of the properties were required to provide the council with tenancy agreements with their new residents, to confirm they are operating as traditional landlords, providing tenancy agreements as".


It does not say those tenancy agreements where ever provided to the council.

lol, you're right it doesn't say that.

“The copies of tenancy agreements we have got in show [the owners] seem to have gone for a three- or six-month period in the main to see where the market would go, but quite a lot of them have changed to 12-month leases as well,” Mr Fallon said.

We are continuing to trawl the various websites and pick out places at random where we feel that letting may still be taking place in a number of inner-city locations and we are proactively going after those people as well.

Great time to be an AirBnb 'host', those negative yields and threats of enforcement actions make for really sound property investments.

Meanwhile back in the real world, there does appear to be downward pressure on rents in previously popular STL hotspots.

My tuppence ha'penny worth;

good

Graham

Dav010 wrote: »

There are currently 4660 full rental properties listed on Airbnb in Dublin.

TSQ wrote: »

Where did you get that very exact figure from?

Dav010 wrote: »

http://insideairbnb.com/dublin/

Dublin: 821 entire home/apartment

Dublin City: 685 entire home/apartment

In Dublin City there are now only 240 single property hosts remaining.

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

Dublin: 821 entire home/apartment

Dublin City: 685 entire home/apartment

In Dublin City there are now only 240 single property hosts remaining.

http://insideairbnb.com/get-the-data.html

If you scroll down to Dublin you can view the data, including the listings on Airbnb on 19/10/20.

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

lol, you're right it doesn't say that.





Great time to be an AirBnb 'host', those negative yields and threats of enforcement actions make for really sound property investments.

Meanwhile back in the real world, there does appear to be downward pressure on rents in previously popular STL hotspots.

My tuppence ha'penny worth;

good

Y’know Graham, you just have to accept some owners don’t want to be landlords.
Maybe a significant number of Airbnb owners own their property mortgage free, maybe they are willing to accept the hit rather than risk letting to tenants. Maybe they are renting for less than 6 months so that tenants can be removed and revert to SLT next summer.

A Daft report a couple of months ago referenced the conversion of STLs to LTL, but said it was equivalent to approximately one days supply in Dublin.

I have an Airbnb, I still get bookings from people who want short lets for business/family visits/isolating, the hotels being closed meant STLs are needed. I have bookings up to 23/12, so it’s not all bad news.

There is now far more supply of rentals in Dublin then there has been for a long time, this disproportional interest some people have on what is a minuscule percentage of the rental property pool offering STLs is hard to understand.

Edit. Just watching Peter McVarry on TV3 saying that he wants the law to change banning evictions outright and putting right to housing in the constitution. That would send a shudder down the spine of LLs. And, despite the fact that properties are available, homelessness has gone down marginally, so not much point using that as an argument against Airbnb’s.

Ozark707

Looks like daft's site redesign is preventing scraping (it seems to have removed the price changes notifications).

It appears that it will not be possible to get any data after Novembers figures.

https://sites.google.com/view/prettycharts

We will have to rely on the Daft/CSO reports going forward which are not as frequent.

cgcsb

the search function on daft seems to be down entirely a few days, have people noticed this?

brisan

cgcsb wrote: »

the search function on daft seems to be down entirely a few days, have people noticed this?

working for me

brisan

https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/ashbrook-howth-road-clontarf-co-dublin/2592801
Not a hope they will get those prices
Its exceptionally rare to see this many properties in this complex come on stream at the one time
Normally only one or maybe two a a time and even then that's rare

Ozark707

brisan wrote: »

https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/ashbrook-howth-road-clontarf-co-dublin/2592801
Not a hope they will get those prices
Its exceptionally rare to see this many properties in this complex come on stream at the one time
Normally only one or maybe two a a time and even then that's rare

it indicates it is a new development, could it be a new phase there? Would they not get 1850 for a 2 bed?

brisan

Ozark707 wrote: »

it indicates it is a new development, could it be a new phase there? Would they not get 1850 for a 2 bed?

They are not new and 1850 is a high price for the area at the moment

https://www.daft.ie/property-for-rent/dublin-3-dublin/apartments?rentalPrice_to=1800&numBeds_from=2&from=20&pageSize=20

Ozark707

brisan wrote: »

They are not new and 1850 is a high price for the area at the moment

https://www.daft.ie/property-for-rent/dublin-3-dublin/apartments?rentalPrice_to=1800&numBeds_from=2&from=20&pageSize=20

Yes it is a bit pricey based on that.

brisan

Ozark707 wrote: »

Yes it is a bit pricey based on that.

This time last year you would have paid well over 2k for a 2 bed in Clontarf if you could get one

Ozark707

brisan wrote: »

This time last year you would have paid well over 2k for a 2 bed in Clontarf if you could get one

Same (% drop) seems to be replicated in D4 now. Will be interesting to see if this trend continues in the new year.

brisan

Ozark707 wrote: »

Same (% drop) seems to be replicated in D4 now. Will be interesting to see if this trend continues in the new year.

Clontarf was always very popular for rentals (proximity to city and coast ) but since the start of the year more rentals are coming on to the market at lower prices and staying up on DAFT for longer

Ozark707

brisan wrote: »

Clontarf was always very popular for rentals (proximity to city and coast ) but since the start of the year more rentals are coming on to the market at lower prices and staying up on DAFT for longer

If Clontarf was popular on Airbnb (I guess it was due to the proximity you cite) it would naturally have been badly affected by what happened in the STL market. I am not familiar really with the area but in the D2/4 area there has been quite a bit of new build that has or will soon enough hit the market. If employees come back from abroad in January (as there is some speculation) this should increase demand so prices might start to go back up.

I am on a FB group which is 95% ex pats. This time last year you hardly saw someone advertise for a spare room etc. In the last 3 months it is nearly one every 1 or 2 weeks. Some have even come back after a month with an almost 10% drop in the price of rooms.

brisan

Ozark707 wrote: »

If Clontarf was popular on Airbnb (I guess it was due to the proximity you cite) it would naturally have been badly affected by what happened in the STL market. I am not familiar really with the area but in the D2/4 area there has been quite a bit of new build that has or will soon enough hit the market. If employees come back from abroad in January (as there is some speculation) this should increase demand so prices might start to go back up.

I am on a FB group which is 95% ex pats. This time last year you hardly saw someone advertise for a spare room etc. In the last 3 months it is nearly one every 1 or 2 weeks. Some have even come back after a month with an almost 10% drop in the price of rooms.

I am not sure if there was a big Air b&b market in Clontarf
Maybe there was
However prices started dropping slightly and availability increasing late 2019
Covid only increased the pace of both

https://touch.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-150-howth-road-clontarf-co-dublin/2610418
These are a much better apartment complex .all rentals
Very quiet and very well managed with someone on site 9-5 (MKN OWNED )
Last year these were 2300-2500 for a 2 bed 2 bath apt
Shops .pub ,takeaways chemist 100yards away and the Dart a 5 min walk

Ozark707

brisan wrote: »

I am not sure if there was a big Air b&b market in Clontarf
Maybe there was
However prices started dropping slightly and availability increasing late 2019
Covid only increased the pace of both

https://touch.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-150-howth-road-clontarf-co-dublin/2610418
These are a much better apartment complex .all rentals
Very quiet and very well managed with someone on site 9-5 (MKN OWNED )
Last year these were 2300-2500 for a 2 bed 2 bath apt
Shops .pub ,takeaways chemist 100yards away and the Dart a 5 min walk

It would be interesting to know if they can even get asking now. One of the major differences between this year and last is that it is highly likely that you would have had to pay asking but now you might be able to secure a reduction on the asking.

brisan

Ozark707 wrote: »

It would be interesting to know if they can even get asking now. One of the major differences between this year and last is that it is highly likely that you would have had to pay asking but now you might be able to secure a reduction on the asking.

I know of one landlord who instead of reducing the headline rate is giving the last month of the 12 month lease free
Basically a 8% drop on asking but the headline rate stays the same for RPZ if rents increase again

Ozark707

brisan wrote: »

I know of one landlord who instead of reducing the headline rate is giving the last month of the 12 month lease free
Basically a 8% drop on asking but the headline rate stays the same for RPZ if rents increase again

Sensible move

brisan

Ozark707 wrote: »

Sensible move

At 1850 for a 2 bed apartment in Artane he was being very optimistic
It has however a fairly big courtyard and its one of only six apartments in well kept grounds
Near to shops buses DART etc

Ozark707

brisan wrote: »

At 1850 for a 2 bed apartment in Artane he was being very optimistic
It has however a fairly big courtyard and its one of only six apartments in well kept grounds
Near to shops buses DART etc

I agree it was optimistic but he is now getting 11/12's of 1850. I would call that a good deal for him.

brisan

Ozark707 wrote: »

I agree it was optimistic but he is now getting 11/12's of 1850. I would call that a good deal for him.

it is and keeping the headline rate is a nice sweetener

Ozark707

Big dip in availability on daft. Below 2900 now (for Dublin).

One of my personal searches which had ~55 listings in it 2-3 weeks ago now down at ~40.

Maybe a lot of the people who went home during Xmas are now coming back?

Claw Hammer

Ozark707 wrote: »

Big dip in availability on daft. Below 2900 now (for Dublin).

One of my personal searches which had ~55 listings in it 2-3 weeks ago now down at ~40.

Maybe a lot of the people who went home during Xmas are now coming back?

Christmas hasn't happened yet so I doubt if anyone is coming back. I was told by a letting agent that when she reduced prices of rentals they were taken by Dubliners moving out of home. These were people who previously hadn't rented because of the high prices but are now being tempted by the lower prices now available. There are also reports of landlords selling off rather than accepting lower rent. Some landlords have also decided to leave off advertising until after Christmas in the hopes of a pick up.

Patsy167

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/rents-grew-at-slowest-rate-in-almost-eight-years-in-last-quarter-1.4442735?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Frents-grew-at-slowest-rate-in-almost-eight-years-in-last-quarter-1.4442735

Rents grew at slowest rate in almost eight years in last quarter
Average rents up by 1.4%, or €17 per month, according to Residential Tenancies Board

It showed the average rent during the period rose to €1,256, as compared with €1,239 in the same period a year earlier.

The county with the highest standardised average rent in the quarter was Dublin (€1,758 per month), while the county with the lowest monthly rents was Leitrim (€600 per month).

brisan

https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2020/1221/1185810-rented-property-inspections-legal-action-councils-housing-standards/