Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Charles Babbage · 22-12-2020 03:51PM

bladespin wrote: »

That's very circumstantial tbh, we can assume such but there's no evidence to prove it, you'd hope that there's be some seriously heavyweight evdience behind shutting a business down, a little more than that anyway.

Across the world there is plenty of evidence of transmission in pubs and restaurants.. But public health is concerned with aggregates, if an action reduces disease then you do that action, you do not futter around looking for "evidence" while people are dying.

never_mind · 22-12-2020 03:56PM

Absolutely horrible treatment of the hospitality sector. Ridiculous move and scapegoating yet again.

Bass Reeves · 22-12-2020 03:56PM

Poorside wrote: »

What Subset exactly are they looking at? And please elaborate on the others.

Penny and 1 euro knickers would be those that change there knickers regularly or maybe see a knickers as a disposable product..... That a joke.

However if transmission was mainly from clothes retailing and particularly from shops such as Penny's the Main early trsnsmission vehicle would have been females in the sub 40 age group.

Funeral would have seen outbreaks started on family sub groups mainly cousins , uncles aunts etc

Church gatherings would have seen a expodentially rise in an older sub group.

MOH · 22-12-2020 05:20PM

Allinall wrote: »

Majority of pubs close about 6 or 7 on Christmas eve anyway.

It's only a few hours earlier.

Get over it.

I've been limiting my contacts over the last couple of weeks so I could safely meet someone for dinner Christmas Eve at 6. That's my Christmas screwed.
I'm not getting over it.

hynesie08 wrote: »

Yes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1341347326003179520

Sofa King Great wrote: »

Somehow it is easier to think that there is a worldwide conspiracy against pubs than to think that they are contributing to the spread of covid

Dub81 wrote: »

Again im asking you and others to provide evidence and not just offer up
"opinions" and "what ifs"

This is the thing with the anti pub birgade, they are all opinions and what ifs but are unable to provide any sort of evidence, so i just cant take people like this seriously.

I am so sick to death of all the lies at this point that I took 5 minutes to scrawl on this in response to a shocking bit of misleading data manipulation in the main thread. Obviously the hospitality bit doesn't include non-food pubs but since people seem to be lumping them all in together at this stage:

(Source, which in turn is sourced from HSE data. Green and red annotations mine)

It's definitely all hospitality and nothing to do with schools. And everything was definitely going up until level 5 saved us all.

bladespin · 22-12-2020 05:22PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Across the world there is plenty of evidence of transmission in pubs and restaurants.. But public health is concerned with aggregates, if an action reduces disease then you do that action, you do not futter around looking for "evidence" while people are dying.

Are they dying though? Numbers are up, no argument there but the death rate etc is not, yet anyway, and yes if you're putting someone out of a job or closing their business, I'd want some proof.

weldoninhio · 22-12-2020 05:27PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They weren't given the powers

Absolute spoofer.

Gardai now have the power to close pubs and restaurants that breach public health rules.

The legislation has come into place after President Michael D Higgins signed the "Criminal Justice Enforcement Powers Covid-19 Bill" into law.

Sofa King Great · 22-12-2020 05:46PM

MOH wrote: »

I've been limiting my contacts over the last couple of weeks so I could safely meet someone for dinner Christmas Eve at 6. That's my Christmas screwed.
I'm not getting over it.

I am so sick to death of all the lies at this point that I took 5 minutes to scrawl on this in response to a shocking bit of misleading data manipulation in the main thread. Obviously the hospitality bit doesn't include non-food pubs but since people seem to be lumping them all in together at this stage:

(Source, which in turn is sourced from HSE data. Green and red annotations mine)

It's definitely all hospitality and nothing to do with schools. And everything was definitely going up until level 5 saved us all.

Per your graph, the numbers decreased significantly after level 5 was introduced at the end of October but the schools were still open. In fact, schools have been open for 4 months straight. If it was the case that schools were such a huge contributer, that line would have been continuing to go upwards since 1st September

aziz · 22-12-2020 05:50PM

Just seen the board failte “dine out safely this Christmas “ add on telly now
What a joke

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 22-12-2020 06:12PM

aziz wrote: »

Just seen the board failte “dine out safely this Christmas “ add on telly now
What a joke

It's a balmy 6 degrees and lashing here, you'd want to be mad.

IAMAMORON · 22-12-2020 06:22PM

aziz wrote: »

Just seen the board failte “dine out safely this Christmas “ add on telly now
What a joke

What a waste of an advertising budget more like?

We are all paying for it.

I see sheep · 22-12-2020 07:01PM

Can restaurants still do takeaway in new lockdown? Thanks

Sebastian Dangerfield · 22-12-2020 07:11PM

I see sheep wrote: »

Can restaurants still do takeaway in new lockdown? Thanks

Yes

alexonhisown · 22-12-2020 07:22PM

I see sheep wrote: »

Can restaurants still do takeaway in new lockdown? Thanks

According to gov.ie takeaway from 27th

MOH · 22-12-2020 07:45PM

Sofa King Great wrote: »

Per your graph, the numbers decreased significantly after level 5 was introduced at the end of October but the schools were still open. In fact, schools have been open for 4 months straight. If it was the case that schools were such a huge contributer, that line would have been continuing to go upwards since 1st September

I'm not sure I follow? The line did continue to go up from when schools opened until the L3 turned it around just before the L5 restrictions came in?

Or do you mean that schools remained open during L5 so the restrictions wouldn't have affected schools?

According to the HSE figure, over 80% of clusters begin at home (or that was the case last time I checked a while ago). Which, clearly, isn't possible - they have to come into a household from somewhere (unless it's in the drinking water in which case Irish Water have a lot to answer for).
If kids pick it up in school but are asymptomatic, but then pass it to their parents, that would still continue under level 5. But the opportunities for it to spread beyond the household would be curtailed by level 5, which is where the restrictions would have an effect.

And to be honest, I'm not the one who decided correlation is proof of anything. Our minister of health stated that the EY report showed "unambiguous" evidence that "wet pubs" were responsible for increases. And that was based on a 10% increase over two weeks, at a time when the the report noted other contributing factors such as "universities opening and specific sporting events".

So by that standard of proof, surely a 50% increase three weeks after schools opened is cast-iron proof?

Dickie10 · 22-12-2020 10:26PM

looks like the publican i chatted last week on the street was right he said mid may before any openings at the least. VFI were told paddys day, not a hope and this year i think its folllowed quick enough by easter so there afraid of that too. Hotels and family type holiday is what they want to open around easter, they said they actually dont want wet pubs as thier model for hospitality going forward. what the hell is up with them , they seem anti pub not anti drink, as if they were shops wouldnt be able to sell 24 cans of guinness for 20 euro, which is disgraceful

hynesie08 · 22-12-2020 10:56PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

looks like the publican i chatted last week on the street was right he said mid may before any openings at the least. VFI were told paddys day, not a hope and this year i think its folllowed quick enough by easter so there afraid of that too. Hotels and family type holiday is what they want to open around easter, they said they actually dont want wet pubs as thier model for hospitality going forward. what the hell is up with them , they seem anti pub not anti drink, as if they were shops wouldnt be able to sell 24 cans of guinness for 20 euro, which is disgraceful

So the vfi were caught unawares by todays announcement, but they have a leak who knows the governments plans for the next 7 months.....

Someone in this scenario is spoofing.

22-12-2020 11:02PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

looks like the publican i chatted last week on the street was right he said mid may before any openings at the least. VFI were told paddys day, not a hope and this year i think its folllowed quick enough by easter so there afraid of that too. Hotels and family type holiday is what they want to open around easter, they said they actually dont want wet pubs as thier model for hospitality going forward. what the hell is up with them , they seem anti pub not anti drink, as if they were shops wouldnt be able to sell 24 cans of guinness for 20 euro, which is disgraceful

Not half as disgraceful as what pubs got away with charging for one.

Scoondal · 23-12-2020 02:27AM

Normal pubs with people squashing up around the bar will not be seen for a couple of years. In 2021, they should get to "table service" bars like in most civilised countries.

23-12-2020 08:02AM

Scoondal wrote: »

Normal pubs with people squashing up around the bar will not be seen for a couple of years. In 2021, they should get to "table service" bars like in most civilised countries.

They’re not real bars.

Morries Wigs · 23-12-2020 08:07AM

Dickie10 wrote: »

looks like the publican i chatted last week on the street was right he said mid may before any openings at the least. VFI were told paddys day, not a hope and this year i think its folllowed quick enough by easter so there afraid of that too. Hotels and family type holiday is what they want to open around easter, they said they actually dont want wet pubs as thier model for hospitality going forward. what the hell is up with them , they seem anti pub not anti drink, as if they were shops wouldnt be able to sell 24 cans of guinness for 20 euro, which is disgraceful

lost interest when you said wet pubs-another victim of conditioning from media

Lux23 · 23-12-2020 09:21AM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What a waste of an advertising budget more like?

We are all paying for it.

Even if they pulled it, we would still be paying for it. Advertising is often locked in weeks in advance, that's why you see adverts for sold out gigs etc.

ShineOn7 · 23-12-2020 01:08PM

From a thread on the first page of Reddit Ireland today called We need to talk about the drink...

As it happens, I wrote a comment in another thread today with some facts and figures:
Ireland has a high per capita total alcohol consumption of 13 litres. That compares to 9.8 litres for the European average and 6.4 litres for the global average.

Alcohol consumption in Ireland almost trebled between 1960 and 2001, rising from 4.9 litres of pure alcohol per person (>15 yrs old) to a peak 14.3 litres.

37% of drinkers report that they binge drink on a typical occasion. 22% of drinkers were found to binge drink at least once a week, and 39% do so at least one a month.

In 2016, 37.8% of the total population in Ireland aged 15+years reported consumption of at least 60 grams or more of pure alcohol on at least one occasion in the past 30 days i.e. heavy episodic drinking.

Every day, 1,500 beds in our overcrowded hospitals are occupied by people with alcohol-related problems.

One in four deaths of young men aged 15-39 in Ireland is due to alcohol

Alcohol is responsible for 88 deaths every month in Ireland. That’s over 1,000 deaths per year.

The Drinkaware Index (2019) revealed complacent and complicit over-consumption of alcohol among Irish adults with 74% believing that drinking to excess is "just a part of Irish culture".

How many people say they are not problem drinkers, while also saying they don't have a single hobby or pastime to engage in now that pubs are closed?

I said it was pointless trying to debate with the majority of drinkers in this thread

But the points (and facts) raised in the Reddit Ireland post were too strong not to share

opinionated3 · 23-12-2020 01:11PM

So we have officially moved on to demonise those who choose to socialise via the local pub? My god, I think Tony can quit now, his work here is doneðŸ˜’

dominatinMC · 23-12-2020 01:35PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

From a thread on the first page of Reddit Ireland today called We need to talk about the drink...

I said it was pointless trying to debate with the majority of drinkers in this thread

But the points (and facts) raised in the Reddit Ireland post were too strong not to share

More nanny state rubbish, would one expect any less from Reddit, a circle jerk bastion of self-serving, left-leaning, latte-sipping urbanites. Big deal, Irish people like a drink. Note - we are not the worst offenders either, according to those statistics. There are people in this country whose sole objective is to demonise drink, who hate Irelands reputation and association with drink, and who want to usher-in this European style "cafe culture" utopia. Frankly it's pathetic. People should be free to live their lives, and have personal responsibility, we don't need the government to regulate every element of our existence. People who suffer from alcoholism need to accept the choices they made, and the whole industry should not be demonised due to unfortunate circumstances of a few.

Bass Reeves · 23-12-2020 01:38PM

opinionated3 wrote: »

So we have officially moved on to demonise those who choose to socialise via the local pub? My god, I think Tony can quit now, his work here is doneðŸ˜’

It's nothing about demonizing those that go for a pint. The reality is government have to make choices or else this epicdemic will get out of control. Its decision is that keeping certain sectors of the economy going. It considers that productive sectors, the food production sector, distribution sectors, construction factories and Education are priority. Essential retail is considered priority.

It has to make decisions. This time it is chancing that it can leave certain sections of non essential retail open. This is something it should have done in the last lockdown. It instructions to them is not go start massive sales which draw crowds. If a few irresponsible retailers do that then all the sector will close down again.

It considered wet pubs, gastro pubs and restaurants as well as hair and beauty saloons as higher risk and non essential to the economy at present. It's a decision that they have made along with a stay at home instructions. It may be wrong but that is there decision.

If schools are spreading it as much as pubs and restaurants but it can keep one open then it's decision is to keep schools open. The numbers have climbed it has to make a decision. It was interesting the the start of this pandemic the WHO said perfection and doing everything completely correctly was not the answer. Speed of decision was critical, you will make mistakes learn from them as you will not get everything right. That why lads looking at statics and expecting that these are the complete answers are not looking at the complete picture

expectationlost · 23-12-2020 01:40PM

were pubs and restaurants even making a profit during the few weeks they were open? ( a quicker shut down might waste supplies they bought)

Tenzor07 · 23-12-2020 01:44PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's nothing about demonizing those that go for a pint. The reality is government have to make choices or else this epicdemic will get out of control. Its decision is that keeping certain sectors of the economy going. It considers that productive sectors, the food production sector, distribution sectors, construction factories and Education are priority. Essential retail is considered priority.

And of course Gastropubs and Restaurants are a major customer for the Food production sector, purchasing millions of €uro in food and drink each week... now with that demand stopped it will lead to job losses and closures in food/meat producers....something most don't think about when they go on a rant about the Pint drinker...

ThewhiteJesus · 23-12-2020 01:48PM

if you don't feel safe in the pub, don't go !
I left one last week for this reason, but i felt alot more vunerable trying to get xmas shopping done in stores.
the whole management of this pandemic has been the biggest f up in Irish history, since the day we let the Brits back in Croke park.
Shamefull stuff

Tazz T · 23-12-2020 01:48PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

From a thread on the first page of Reddit Ireland today called We need to talk about the drink...

I said it was pointless trying to debate with the majority of drinkers in this thread

But the points (and facts) raised in the Reddit Ireland post were too strong not to share

You realise this is a coronavirus thread. This has zero relevance. I'm sure there's a thread on drink issues in Ireland somewhere else.

ShineOn7 · 23-12-2020 01:53PM

dominatinMC wrote: »

More nanny state rubbish, would one expect any less from Reddit, a circle jerk bastion

The only circle jerk I've seen online this week is among the drinkers in this thread. The mental gymnastics being done to justify social adult playgrounds staying open during a pandemic is quite something

Reddit Ireland has over 300,000 subscribers. And they're all "self-serving, left-leaning, latte-sipping urbanites"? Every single one?

This popped up too https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/kif9oq/friend_sent_me_this_today_dont_know_whether_to/

Some lads in Ireland were so desperate for a pint that they set up their own pub. In a fire truck

Any other year this would be fcuking hilarious. But now?

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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