The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

NW_10 · 22-12-2020 01:56PM

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

The same figures for Dublin:

2011 total: 1,244,745
2016 total: 1,318,033
Increase: 73,288

Born in county 2011: 830,702
Born in county 2016: 880,457
Increase: 49,755

Source: https://data.cso.ie/table/E2040

So 67.9% of the increase was people born in Dublin. For Kildare it was actually minus 5.8%.

I was in Celbridge around the time of the last All-Ireland and there houses decked in Dublin flags. Kids wearing Dublin jerseys. They won't be growing up to support Kildare.

Enquiring · 22-12-2020 01:57PM

salmocab wrote: »

Really I’d wonder why there seems to be buy in from second generation kids from parents outside of Dublin and apparently isn’t from kids of Dubs living in Kildare as the poster said. That seems like a breakdown of some sort.

You asked a question. Got an answer with links and data backing it up. You didnt like that answer though so decided to ignore it and make some random claim instead.

Cilldara_2000 · 22-12-2020 01:58PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

The population increase in Dublin is foreign nationals and country folk moving to Dublin, so similar to the Meath and Kildare situation with population growth.

You literally posted this just after someone posted actual figures:

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

The same figures for Dublin:

2011 total: 1,244,745
2016 total: 1,318,033
Increase: 73,288

Born in county 2011: 830,702
Born in county 2016: 880,457
Increase: 49,755

Source: https://data.cso.ie/table/E2040

So 67.9% of the increase was people born in Dublin. For Kildare it was actually minus 5.8%.

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

In 2011, the population of Kildare was 208,783. In 2016 it was 220,693. The population born in the county in 2011 was 80,993, in 2016 it was 80,304.

More than two thirds of Dublin's population increase is people born in Dublin. Kildare's population born in Kildare decreased between 2011 and 2016.

salmocab · 22-12-2020 01:59PM

NW_10 wrote: »

I was in Celbridge around the time of the last All-Ireland and there houses decked in Dublin flags. Kids wearing Dublin jerseys. They won't be growing up to support Kildare.

Why not though? A good few of my mates are Dublin supporters and have parents from outside of Dublin. They played hurling and football for Dublin clubs and grew up supporting the Dubs. I really don’t get why it would be different.

NW_10 · 22-12-2020 02:03PM

salmocab wrote: »

Why not though? A good few of my mates are Dublin supporters and have parents from outside of Dublin. They played hurling and football for Dublin clubs and grew up supporting the Dubs. I really don’t get why it would be different.

But their kids aren't playing for Dublin clubs. They are playing for Celbridge. A Kildare club.

munster87 · 22-12-2020 02:03PM

Population, massive funding, home matches. All are disadvantages to Dublin GAA. Somehow.
Denial.

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 02:07PM

You have to laugh when Dubs say youngsters would be lost to the GAA without huge GDF.

As if there are no other sports in every other county.

The other excuse for gdf is usually Dublin underperforming. Dublin won 5 AIs from 1974-2000, second only to a Kerry team that really was once in a generation.

ArielAtom · 22-12-2020 02:11PM

munster87 wrote: »

Population, massive funding, home matches. All are disadvantages to Dublin GAA. Somehow.
Denial.

Funding is below quite a few counties. Figures were published here earlier. The initial funding that most posters refer to is from 2007 - 2017, this project ended. Dublin will always play their home games in Dublin, it's their away games that the opposition seek to play in HQ are your real issue, population has always been there.

Bass Reeves · 22-12-2020 02:12PM

Deathknell wrote: »

I tend to agree.
3/4 for Dublin
1 for Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, Derry, Belfast - Possibly Athlone/ Carlow, Laois, Kilkenny - Amalgamations would occur.

Ironically - Hurling - could actually benefit IMHO. After 100 years its still only a sport played by 8-10 counties at the HIGHEST standard.
You could have 2-3 pro teams north of the Dublin/ Galway Rd.

Look - its speculation and we are still along way from that - but it might be the ultimate end point if the county system is busted by urbanisation.

The other hope - is that this Covid thing, allows people to work from their homes and they dont have to move to the cities, and the trend to urban centres is stopped or reversed even. .

Professionalism would not allow both hurling and football to survive. The money is not available within the country to allow multiple teams to survive. Look at soccer and rugby. At professional level they have relatively few teams.

Football actually might have a slight better chance. With the large no of expats and historical emigration both the UK and US could support 3-4 teams between them. Then 3-4 based between Dublin and Leinster, 3-4 based between Ulster and Munster. Ulster might well have a better chance of two teams surviving rather than Munster unless the province was split into Cork and the rest based in Kerry. Then one in Connaught.

This gives 10-12 professional teams. But an average professional team would cost 20 million to run. It would rob club structures and there following similar to soccer and rugby at present. A draft would rob players of there club and county ethos that is there at present.

salmocab · 22-12-2020 02:14PM

NW_10 wrote: »

But their kids aren't playing for Dublin clubs. They are playing for Celbridge. A Kildare club.

I might have worded it badly but that’s my exact point, they are playing in Kildare but have Dublin parents whereas quite a few of my mates grew up in Dublin with parents from elsewhere (often going to matches of the parents home county during the summer) and they all grew up as Dubs supporters albeit with soft spots for where they’re parents are from.

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 02:15PM

Anyways the sport is ruined now, we can all agree on that. Its a Mickey Mouse sport that no-one including many Dubs take seriously.
We will continue to see declining interest and crowds which is very welcome.
People will have no interest forking out large sums for foregone conclusions, preparing to stick with sports where they don't know in advance the result!

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 02:18PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Professionalism would not allow both hurling and football to survive. The money is not available within the country to allow multiple teams to survive. Look at soccer and rugby. At professional level they have relatively few teams.

Football actually might have a slight better chance. With the large no of expats and historical emigration both the UK and US could support 3-4 teams between them. Then 3-4 based between Dublin and Leinster, 3-4 based between Ulster and Munster. Ulster might well have a better chance of two teams surviving rather than Munster unless the province was split into Cork and the rest based in Kerry. Then one in Connaught.

This gives 10-12 professional teams. But an average professional team would cost 20 million to run. It would rob club structures and there following similar to soccer and rugby at present. A draft would rob players of there club and county ethos that is there at present.

Done right there's no reason why professionalism can't be a success. But it would need competent administration instead of the rank amateurs in the GAA. It would also require a genuine effort to expand the sport into the UK. You'd imagine a professional franchaise based in London would attract big crowds among emigrants.

kilns · 22-12-2020 02:20PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You have to laugh when Dubs say youngsters would be lost to the GAA without huge GDF.

As if there are no other sports in every other county.

The other excuse for gdf is usually Dublin underperforming. Dublin won 5 AIs from 1974-2000, second only to a Kerry team that really was once in a generation.

Where is the meme for the guy shaking his head with his head in his hands when you need it

kilns · 22-12-2020 02:28PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Anyways the sport is ruined now, we can all agree on that. Its a Mickey Mouse sport that no-one including many Dubs take seriously.
We will continue to see declining interest and crowds which is very welcome.
People will have no interest forking out large sums for foregone conclusions, preparing to stick with sports where they don't know in advance the result!

It will with attitudes like that.

Come on to the forum and all you see is moaning about Dublin this and Dublin that and the only solution the want is defund Dublin, which is very short sighted. Its not just Dublin which is a problem there are fundamental problems with how the whole system and competition is devised.

I would love to hear proper solutions which would provide a level playing field for all, not just splitting Dublin and therefore in the short term boasting Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone

My suggestions would be:

1. Scrap the county system as we know it. Create 20-24 Franchises, for example Dublin 1, Dublin 2, Longford/Roscommon, Louth/Armagh, Cork 1, Cork 2 etc etc. It would take probably a generation to buy into it but it needs to be done

2. Scrap County boards and centralise everything. Lets be honest most county boards are useless and involves small time politics which holds back progression

3. Centralise Coaching and Games Development for the whole Island

4. Centralise club fixtures and the calendars

Just my suggestions

kilns · 22-12-2020 02:31PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Done right there's no reason why professionalism can't be a success. But it would need competent administration instead of the rank amateurs in the GAA. It would also require a genuine effort to expand the sport into the UK. You'd imagine a professional franchaise based in London would attract big crowds among emigrants.

Players need a decent wage if they are to survive and the revenue streams are simply not there for the number of players who would be receiving a wage. Look at Rugby they keep their head above water just about running 4 teams and the LOI cant support itself as it has no income

Cilldara_2000 · 22-12-2020 02:34PM

kilns wrote: »

It will with attitudes like that.

Come on to the forum and all you see is moaning about Dublin this and Dublin that and the only solution the want is defund Dublin, which is very short sighted. Its not just Dublin which is a problem there are fundamental problems with how the whole system and competition is devised.

I would love to hear proper solutions which would provide a level playing field for all, not just splitting Dublin and therefore in the short term boasting Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone

My suggestions would be:

1. Scrap the county system as we know it. Create 20-24 Franchises, for example Dublin 1, Dublin 2, Longford/Roscommon, Louth/Armagh, Cork 1, Cork 2 etc etc. It would take probably a generation to buy into it but it needs to be done

2. Scrap County boards and centralise everything. Lets be honest most county boards are useless and involves small time politics which holds back progression

3. Centralise Coaching and Games Development for the whole Island

4. Centralise club fixtures and the calendars

Just my suggestions

The problem with any solution that takes a generation to bed in is that in the meantime there's no income to sort out anything - gate receipts and TV income from club championships won't pay for too many coaches. A collection of armchair pundits (IE all of us posting here) can't be expected to be on top of what the best commercial solution which retains the income from the current senior inter county championships while also completely restructuring the GAA.

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 02:34PM

kilns wrote: »

Where is the meme for the guy shaking his head with his head in his hands when you need it

What part is false?
You call winning 5 AIs in 26 years underachieving?

Unless you think the sport should have been purposely rigged so Dublin were winning more often? Which of course is exactly what happened.

Rigging sport so the county with the biggest population wins a specific amont of AIs? The very definition of a corrupt sport.

A rigged corrupt sport, simply no other way to describe it.

ShyMets · 22-12-2020 02:35PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Anyways the sport is ruined now, we can all agree on that. Its a Mickey Mouse sport that no-one including many Dubs take seriously.
We will continue to see declining interest and crowds which is very welcome.
People will have no interest forking out large sums for foregone conclusions, preparing to stick with sports where they don't know in advance the result!

Please pass on the funeral arrangements. I'll send a wreath

Deathknell · 22-12-2020 02:35PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You have to laugh when Dubs say youngsters would be lost to the GAA without huge GDF.

As if there are no other sports in every other county.

The other excuse for gdf is usually Dublin underperforming. Dublin won 5 AIs from 1974-2000, second only to a Kerry team that really was once in a generation.

I think the funding was based on this premise - it was a false premise.

This number of winning titles 5 in 26 years between - 74-00 was underperforming for their population - but if you include losing finals, they lost 7 (Lost 4 to the great Kerry team & 4 finals between 83 & 95) but now they have reached a tipping point where the county is performing and probably above expectations.
Since 94, they have won all 9 finals they have been in.
9 wins and no losses is probably a statistical anomaly, but 6 in a row, is showing a pattern.
That is accentuated when you show Leinster Stats.
Many factors are going into this but - primarily probably due to the organisation of their clubs & academies, and their huge numbers, and what underpins all good organisations - investment, human & financial.

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 02:37PM

Deathknell wrote: »

I think the funding was based on this premise - it was a false premise.

This number of winning titles 5 in 26 years between - 74-00 was underperforming for their population - but if you include losing finals, they lost 7 (Lost 4 to the great Kerry team & 4 finals between 83 & 95) but now they have reached a tipping point where the county is performing and probably above expectations.
Since 94, they have won all 9 finals they have been in.
9 wins and no losses is probably a statistical anomaly, but 6 in a row, is showing a pattern.
That is accentuated when you show Leinster Stats.
Many factors are going into this but - primarily probably due to the organisation of their clubs & academies, and their huge numbers, and what underpins all good organisations - investment, human & financial.

Rigging a sport so a certain team should be winning more often is the very definition of corruption.

ShyMets · 22-12-2020 02:46PM

So has anyone explained how splitting Dublin gets the likes of Waterford, Antrim & Leitrim closer to winning a provincial title

Bass Reeves · 22-12-2020 02:47PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Done right there's no reason why professionalism can't be a success. But it would need competent administration instead of the rank amateurs in the GAA. It would also require a genuine effort to expand the sport into the UK. You'd imagine a professional franchaise based in London would attract big crowds among emigrants.

I would not call the GAA tank amateurs. There is great credit due to it and to the players and team management involved at all levels. Since June it ran a nationwide club championships with 7-8 finals accross two codes to be finalised. It ran and completed County, hurling, football in both ladies and men's codes as well as U20's. Minors will be completed by Jan/Feb. Professional sports are struggling with it.

Proferssion alone in football would cost 250 million per year to fund, 75% for teams within the country.

Deathknell · 22-12-2020 02:51PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Rigging a sport so a certain team should be winning more often is the very definition of corruption.

Frank - we all get it, you're angry. If you are here to wind up Dubs - so be it, thats what it looks like.. If you're actually interested in the sport, and wish to see more counties get the chance - then you'll need to make more cogent arguments.

jmayo · 22-12-2020 02:52PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Kerry had 7 away games and Dublin had 7 home games in 2019.

In what other sport apart from the farce that is gaelic football would that be fair?

This year Mayo played in Carrick, Roscommon, Galway and Croke Park twice.
No home game at all. !!!!!

Dublin played in Portlaoise and Croke Park 4 times.

In 2017 Mayo played in Castlebar, Galway, Castlebar, Ennis, Limerick and 5 times in Croker (2 replays).
Yes they were at fault because of going backdoor route.
And people then wonder why they spend so much on the team when most of it is on travel.

Dublin played 6 times in Croker (no replays).

Deathknell · 22-12-2020 02:53PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I would not call the GAA tank amateurs. There is great credit due to it and to the players and team management involved at all levels. Since June it ran a nationwide club championships with 7-8 finals accross two codes to be finalised. It ran and completed County, hurling, football in both ladies and men's codes as well as U20's. Minors will be completed by Jan/Feb. Professional sports are struggling with it.

Proferssion alone in football would cost 250 million per year to fund, 75% for teams within the country.

+1 - Its the best Organisation in the country (Outside of Revenue)
Are there badly organised sections, and things that can be improved... Hell yes..

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 02:55PM

ShyMets wrote: »

So has anyone explained how splitting Dublin gets the likes of Waterford, Antrim & Leitrim closer to winning a provincial title

Only professionalism would make the likes of Leitrim competitive and that would probably include recruiting 3-4 professionals from other counties. Aside from that massively disproportionate gdf and professional coaches in every club as well as a professional county board CEO and other officials would in time see Leitrim win provincial titles. But of course the likes of Leitrim have been starved of funds in recent years with money instead rolling into super rich Dublin.

tobefrank321 · 22-12-2020 03:00PM

Deathknell wrote: »

+1 - Its the best Organisation in the country (Outside of Revenue)
Are there badly organised sections, and things that can be improved... Hell yes..

I would call an organisation that made its premier competition uncompetitive rank amateurs. They have no vision, if they had, they would not have shot themselves in the foot.

Enquiring · 22-12-2020 03:01PM

Deathknell wrote: »

Frank - we all get it, you're angry. If you are here to wind up Dubs - so be it, thats what it looks like.. If you're actually interested in the sport, and wish to see more counties get the chance - then you'll need to make more cogent arguments.

Theres huge anger out there. I think Dubs like Gilroy and others need to read the current mood instead of lying and burying their heads in the sand. The deflection and accusations of jealousy used to work but more and more people are learning the facts about just how disgraceful the whole funding issue is.

All areas have been affected by the funding imbalance but probably Gaelic football and ladies football have been affected the most. Think of what it was like pre funding. The Leinster championship was an open competition with numerous winners, we had new All Ireland winners and a good spread. 22 counties have won provincial championships since the 90's. There was nothing wrong with Gaelic football and no talk of demoting counties or anything else.

How do we get back to that point. Obviously we split Dublin into 4 but along with that, we fund every county fairly and we sort out issues such as sponsorship pooling etc

Did you smash it · 22-12-2020 03:04PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Only professionalism would make the likes of Leitrim competitive and that would probably include recruiting 3-4 professionals from other counties. Aside from that massively disproportionate gdf and professional coaches in every club as well as a professional county board CEO and other officials would in time see Leitrim win provincial titles. But of course the likes of Leitrim have been starved of funds in recent years with money instead rolling into super rich Dublin.

Leitrim would cease to exist as a stand-alone county in professialism. It’s would be amalgamated into its region.

kilns · 22-12-2020 03:07PM

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

The problem with any solution that takes a generation to bed in is that in the meantime there's no income to sort out anything - gate receipts and TV income from club championships won't pay for too many coaches. A collection of armchair pundits (IE all of us posting here) can't be expected to be on top of what the best commercial solution which retains the income from the current senior inter county championships while also completely restructuring the GAA.

If you build it they will come

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1