The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

ooter

In 2018 limerick had 2 home games and played in cork, Clare, Carlow, semple and croker and I didn't hear any cribbing from them.

tobefrank321

kilns wrote: »

It will with attitudes like that.

Come on to the forum and all you see is moaning about Dublin this and Dublin that and the only solution the want is defund Dublin, which is very short sighted. Its not just Dublin which is a problem there are fundamental problems with how the whole system and competition is devised.

I would love to hear proper solutions which would provide a level playing field for all, not just splitting Dublin and therefore in the short term boasting Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone

My suggestions would be:

1. Scrap the county system as we know it. Create 20-24 Franchises, for example Dublin 1, Dublin 2, Longford/Roscommon, Louth/Armagh, Cork 1, Cork 2 etc etc. It would take probably a generation to buy into it but it needs to be done

2. Scrap County boards and centralise everything. Lets be honest most county boards are useless and involves small time politics which holds back progression

3. Centralise Coaching and Games Development for the whole Island

4. Centralise club fixtures and the calendars

Just my suggestions

I don't disagree with most of that.

Personally I think those who founded the GAA would be shaking their heads today and saying something along the lines of "professionalise and break up the county model before its too late". The current model is one from the 19th century and colonial times. There's going to be a decline in interest and the question eventually will be not whether Dublin win finals, but will it be by 10 or 15 points, and there was already some of that talk this year. There is no-one remotely equipped to challenge Dublin, largely due to small player bases and other disadvantages.

Deathknell

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I would call an organisation that made its premier competition uncompetitive rank amateurs. They have no vision, if they had, they would not have shot thelselves in the foot.

I can agree with that. It was short-sighted, and based on a false premise. I think I've made that point.
Lack of vision as a whole has be-devilled the organisation - but that is due to its grassroots. Which is the strength of its organisation. There is a real catch 22 here, how do you impose a vision without top down leadership, which can be challenged and voted away.

What is the Vision that everyone can unite around? And if everyone agrees with the vision, would they agree with how it must be implemented, where there would be winners and losers.

To make it competitive in the next year or 2, the - the biggest loser would be the county competitions. Splitting Dublin, maybe the solution, but it will also set the competition back wholescale...

A huge task.

tritium

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Again, the vast majority of these population increases came from Dublin families. 99% of these families who had any interest in GAA continued to support Dublin. Some were even close enough to continue playing with their clubs in Dublin. A number of those younger players who did play with clubs in their new county ended up playing for Dublin underage e.g. Mick Deegan from Ashbourne, Glenn O'Reilly & Shane Clayton from Ratoath (though both transferred to Dublin clubs) and Mikey Quinn from Eadestown.
If you're a young lad and talented enough, who are you going to choose to play for? The county you've grown up wearing the jersey and supporting and watching them winning everything on offer or the relatively unsuccessful county you live in? Of course there are exceptions to this. The captain of our Leinster minor winning side in 2006 was a Dublin fanatic. However, his view was that he's living and playing club football in Meath, so it was only right that he'd play for Meath. But those exceptions are few and far between and it's a problem that the likes of Dublin do not have.

As another poster pointed out here previously Dublin built their entire GAA foundation on the back of “blow ins” from strong counties yet you couldn’t be bothered trying to leverage this in the opposite direction in other counties.

Dublin have already delivered a template for winning hearts and minds from other sporting opportunities that can be applied

Others have already complained that there’s too many players in dublin already for the opportunity available in terms of places

Yet it’s not worth looking at

What a cop out

tobefrank321

ooter wrote: »

In 2018 limerick had 2 home games and played in cork, Clare, Carlow, semple and croker and I didn't hear any cribbing from them.

How it that even remotely relevant?

Did they play 90% of games in Limerick including AI semi and final? Of course they didn't.

Did the GAA come up with some mathamatical formula years ago that because Limerick have a certain population, they should be winning an AI every x number of years? Again, nope.

ooter

Another poster mentioned away games and the cost of travel, just used limerick in 2018 as an example.
They did a fair bit of travelling.

Achebe

Most counties travel a lot apart from Dublin. Even if they don't travel much one year, they probably will the next.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Theres huge anger out there. I think Dubs like Gilroy and others need to read the current mood instead of lying and burying their heads in the sand. The deflection and accusations of jealousy used to work but more and more people are learning the facts about just how disgraceful the whole funding issue is.

All areas have been affected by the funding imbalance but probably Gaelic football and ladies football have been affected the most. Think of what it was like pre funding. The Leinster championship was an open competition with numerous winners, we had new All Ireland winners and a good spread. 22 counties have won provincial championships since the 90's. There was nothing wrong with Gaelic football and no talk of demoting counties or anything else.

How do we get back to that point. Obviously we split Dublin into 4 but along with that, we fund every county fairly and we sort out issues such as sponsorship pooling etc

You’re really beyond a joke with this nonsense at this point

Ladies football was dominated (really dominated) by cork before dublin. It was no more competitive in terms of variety of winner.

Since you want to use since the 90s as a benchmark, 5 Leinster counties have won the provincial title in that time. Munster by contrast has had 3 winners thanks to Tipp in this oddest of years (but it’s grand cause share its a hurling province right?). Connachts had 4 and, hailed as ultra competitive ulster has had 5

At AI level excluding dublin we’ve had 6 Kerry wins in that 21 years, 3 Tyrone and one each for Galway Antrim cork and Donegal. Not exactly an open spread when most teams are scrabbling for the odd scrap (but sure tell us how much you care about poor wee ulster)

As for funding every county fairly. Define that would be for you? What is you model for fair? Same for all? Per capita (which would increase Dublin funding)? **** or get off the pot mate, tell us how you’d share it out?

On the sponsorship pooling, why exactly would any county negotiate a best possible sponsorship deal and have their players show up to promotional events just to give the money away? I mean I thought it was surreal when the Kildare GAA exec asked for their cut of dublins sponsorship, but it looks like some people actually believe this ****. Why exactly can’t counties maximise their own sponsorship deals first? Cause most of them haven’t done so. What about “fundraising” (including expensive corporate dinners and”gifts). Would they be pooled too?

Hammer Archer

tritium wrote: »

As another poster pointed out here previously Dublin built their entire GAA foundation on the back of “blow ins” from strong counties yet you couldn’t be bothered trying to leverage this in the opposite direction in other counties.

Dublin have already delivered a template for winning heats and minds from other sporting opportunities that can be applied

Others have already complained that there’s too many players in dublin already for the opportunity available in terms of places

Yet it’s not worth looking at

What a cop out

Getting kids playing football and hurling over soccer and rugby is not remotely the same as getting kids already playing gaelic games to decide to represent their home county over the county they've been brought up supporting.
And Dublin used "blow ins" during times when even medium distant travel between counties was infinitely more difficult than today.

You seem to have lots of ideas, so I'll ask a question, how would you have attempted to convince the likes of Darren Daly, 4-time All Ireland winner with Dublin, to play his football in Meath where he lives rather than stay with his old club and play with Dublin?

ArielAtom

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Getting kids playing football and hurling over soccer and rugby is not remotely the same as getting kids already playing gaelic games to decide to represent their home county over the county they've been brought up supporting.
And Dublin used "blow ins" during times when even medium distant travel between counties was infinitely more difficult than today.

You seem to have lots of ideas, so I'll ask a question, how would you have attempted to convince the likes of Darren Daly, 4-time All Ireland winner with Dublin, to play his football in Meath where he lives rather than stay with his old club and play with Dublin?

Hammer, whilst I agree with you, the same can be said if lads in Dublin playing for their home club. Our GPO who has been with the club for over 10yrs still drives home to play with his local club. I admire his dedication as it is for the parish and not county.

munster87

ArielAtom wrote: »

Funding is below quite a few counties. Figures were published here earlier. The initial funding that most posters refer to is from 2007 - 2017, this project ended. Dublin will always play their home games in Dublin, it's their away games that the opposition seek to play in HQ are your real issue, population has always been there.

The damage has already been done at intercounty level with regards to the funding. It doesn’t matter that the project is ended. There are so many advantages and these have started the end of intercounty football in my opinion. A move towards some form of franchised teams over the next decade would be my hope.

tritium

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Getting kids playing football and hurling over soccer and rugby is not remotely the same as getting kids already playing gaelic games to decide to represent their home county over the county they've been brought up supporting.
And Dublin used "blow ins" during times when even medium distant travel between counties was infinitely more difficult than today.

You seem to have lots of ideas, so I'll ask a question, how would you have attempted to convince the likes of Darren Daly, 4-time All Ireland winner with Dublin, to play his football in Meath where he lives rather than stay with his old club and play with Dublin?

I’d ask him

And if he didn’t want to I’d ask the next kid

And the next


I’d make sure to offer the chance to every kid in every school, knowing well that some will want to play rugby or soccer or for dublin.

If Darren said no I’d find 3 other kids who said yes, knowing full well that I was also building something to attract the next generation of Darren’s

You’re think you want a darren daly, I’m thinking I want a hundred kids playing and I’ll find or make a Darren daly from somewhere in that group

Hammer Archer

ArielAtom wrote: »

Hammer, whilst I agree with you, the same can be said if lads in Dublin playing for their home club. Our GPO who has been with the club for over 10yrs still drives home to play with his local club. I admire his dedication as it is for the parish and not county.

Oh absolutely. Just to be clear, I'm not for a second criticising anyone for doing that. And likewise, I'm only using Darren Daly as an example as he lives in my area and, again, I'm not criticising him for sticking with Fingal Ravens. I'm just making the point that people lazily point out that Meath, Kildare etc. have seen a big population increase therefore should automatically be up there with the best teams in the country without considering where this population increase has come from and why a big portion of the county will never consider playing for their home county.

Deathknell

tritium wrote: »

As another poster pointed out here previously Dublin built their entire GAA foundation on the back of “blow ins” from strong counties yet you couldn’t be bothered trying to leverage this in the opposite direction in other counties.

Dublin have already delivered a template for winning hearts and minds from other sporting opportunities that can be applied

Others have already complained that there’s too many players in dublin already for the opportunity available in terms of places

Yet it’s not worth looking at

What a cop out

Tritium, I think you make some good points, and I'd be agreed that some counties are 'cop outs'. And instead of getting their house in order, it's easier to play the poor mouth.
You are rightfully defending your county and are doing so with gusto.
If you are a reasonable person however, you also must agree with the facts.
The facts as they stand are that Dublin's population was always the sleeping giant - That giant has awoken - thanks to organisation, backed up with plenty of money.

If you're goal here is to defend the status quo, and defend the false premise that Dublin is doing it because they try harder, then your as bad as windup merchants on the other side. Saying things like, why cant other counties get sponsorship like Dublin, is a cop-out in itself because you know the truth of why that is. The same reason Man Utd. can command 80 million for your name on their shirt, but Burnley would be laughed at. And lets not go down the splitting Kerry or KK rabbit hole. I would not want to see Dublin split for GAA. So lets get real.

There's 3 sides to every story, yours, theirs and the truth.

Unless we can agree on established facts then no agreed solution can be found.

Fact #1
Dublin GAA was financially assisted/doped. The numbers are irrefutable.
Fact #2
It was done with the best of intentions, but its backfiring big time. (Not on the field obviously)
Fact #3
Dublin did most of the work themselves internally and are a model on how to get your organisation working well.
Fact #4
Dublin have inbuilt social, infrastructural and demographic advantages over everyone else. With the inbuilt advantages Dublin have, this trend is set to continue unless there are changes.
Fact #5
Not everyone who points this out and wonders about the sustainability pf Dublin dominance is doing it out of spite and begrudgery. Most have the health of the game, and its premier competition in mind.


Conclusion:
Dublin will eventually be beaten, but thanks to Fact #4, they will win more than half of all senior football All Irelands for the next few decades. Give or take.
This will have a detrimental affect on the competition, which will lead to the retrenchment of Gaelic Football, both in participation and attendance - countrywide, including Dublin.

At no point have I attacked Dublin, or blamed them. I am looking for a reasonable reply, based on truths,

Do you concur with the facts and the conclusion?

Deathknell

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Oh absolutely. Just to be clear, I'm not for a second criticising anyone for doing that. And likewise, I'm only using Darren Daly as an example as he lives in my area and, again, I'm not criticising him for sticking with Fingal Ravens. I'm just making the point that people lazily point out that Meath, Kildare etc. have seen a big population increase therefore should automatically be up there with the best teams in the country without considering where this population increase has come from and why a big portion of the county will never consider playing for their home county.

Its reasonable to ask the questions of Louth, Meath, Wikclow & Kildare, who on the face of it, have benefitted by population - from Dublin's growth (I use the word benefit advisedly)
I accept that many of the people who have moved there are from Dublin - but thats not the whole story here. Many are from other traditional GAA counties.

I accept that you will see Dublin flags in those counties - but equally, you see hundreds of Mayo flags in Galway, Clare flags in Limerick, Kerry flags in Cork and so on and so on. I coach Hurling & Football in a semi urban commuter town near Galway - I see 6-12 different county jerseys every session. They all want to play for Galway.
I dont accept the opinion that the children of these people will want to play for Dublin only. I do accept the ones that were already playing with a Dublin club and moved to these counties, may want to stay with that club. I DO accept that their parents want them to shout for the Dubs when they're in the All Ireland - which is every year.
Anecdotal evidence of those people being a cuckoo in the nest, is exactly that - anecdotal.
Facts and numbers show these counties are underperforming when it comes to the provincial and All Ireland competitions - Its not insulting to ask why..

Hammer Archer

tritium wrote: »

I’d ask him

And if he didn’t want to I’d ask the next kid

And the next


I’d make sure to offer the chance to every kid in every school, knowing well that some will want to play rugby or soccer or for dublin.

If Darren said no I’d find 3 other kids who said yes, knowing full well that I was also building something to attract the next generation of Darren’s

You’re think you want a darren daly, I’m thinking I want a hundred kids playing and I’ll find or make a Darren daly from somewhere in that group

If it were that easy, why did Dublin need over a decade of games development funding (available to no others) to get kids playing gaelic games? Could they not have just asked?

dunnerc

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Again, the vast majority of these population increases came from Dublin families. 99% of these families who had any interest in GAA continued to support Dublin. Some were even close enough to continue playing with their clubs in Dublin. A number of those younger players who did play with clubs in their new county ended up playing for Dublin underage e.g. Mick Deegan from Ashbourne, Glenn O'Reilly & Shane Clayton from Ratoath (though both transferred to Dublin clubs) and Mikey Quinn from Eadestown.
If you're a young lad and talented enough, who are you going to choose to play for? The county you've grown up wearing the jersey and supporting and watching them winning everything on offer or the relatively unsuccessful county you live in? Of course there are exceptions to this. The captain of our Leinster minor winning side in 2006 was a Dublin fanatic. However, his view was that he's living and playing club football in Meath, so it was only right that he'd play for Meath. But those exceptions are few and far between and it's a problem that the likes of Dublin do not have.

Have to disagree 3 of my brothers , moved to Meath , Dunshaughlin , Ashbourne and Culmullen and raised there kids there , every one of those kids boys and girls are mad Meath supporters and cant stand Dublin Gaa

Cilldara_2000

Deathknell wrote: »

Facts and numbers show these counties are underperforming when it comes to the provincial and All Ireland competitions - Its not insulting to ask why..

It is more insulting to yourselves to blame the Dubs for that.

Pointing out that Kildare, Meath etc are underperforming by not being able to win a provincial championship against a team that has a 15 point winning margin in the province over the last ten years and has won eight of ten all Irelands in the same period is the most simplistic bit of analysis I've seen in this thread yet.

tritium

Deathknell wrote: »

Tritium, I think you make some good points, and I'd be agreed that some counties are 'cop outs'. And instead of getting their house in order, it's easier to play the poor mouth.
You are rightfully defending your county and are doing so with gusto.
If you are a reasonable person however, you also must agree with the facts.
The facts as they stand are that Dublin's population was always the sleeping giant - That giant has awoken - thanks to organisation, backed up with plenty of money.

If you're goal here is to defend the status quo, and defend the false premise that Dublin is doing it because they try harder, then your as bad as windup merchants on the other side. Saying things like, why cant other counties get sponsorship like Dublin, is a cop-out in itself because you know the truth of why that is. The same reason Man Utd. can command 80 million for your name on their shirt, but Burnley would be laughed at. And lets not go down the splitting Kerry or KK rabbit hole. I would not want to see Dublin split for GAA. So lets get real.

There's 3 sides to every story, yours, theirs and the truth.

Unless we can agree on established facts then no agreed solution can be found.

Fact #1
Dublin GAA was financially assisted/doped. The numbers are irrefutable.
Fact #2
It was done with the best of intentions, but its backfiring big time. (Not on the field obviously)
Fact #3
Dublin did most of the work themselves internally and are a model on how to get your organisation working well.
Fact #4
Dublin have inbuilt social, infrastructural and demographic advantages over everyone else. With the inbuilt advantages Dublin have, this trend is set to continue unless there are changes.
Fact #5
Not everyone who points this out and wonders about the sustainability pf Dublin dominance is doing it out of spite and begrudgery. Most have the health of the game, and its premier competition in mind.


Conclusion:
Dublin will eventually be beaten, but thanks to Fact #4, they will win more than half of all senior football All Irelands for the next few decades. Give or take.
This will have a detrimental affect on the competition, which will lead to the retrenchment of Gaelic Football, both in participation and attendance - countrywide, including Dublin.

At no point have I attacked Dublin, or blamed them. I am looking for a reasonable reply, based on truths,

Do you concur with the facts and the conclusion?

Your points above are fair but they also miss a number of additional al points

1 dublin also have a series of disadvantages including price of land and other facilities and a limited supply of available land. They also face competition for players and resources that doesn’t exist in many counties. Managing both advantages and disadvantages is the key to optimising output

2 many counties have badly managed their advantages- counties with 200-600k people are not being dwarfed by dublins population advantages in the way Leitrim with 30k is

3 Finance and access to resources is a longer term as broader GAA problem- the GAA has always been about haves and have nots


By the way I’m not expecting every county to sign deals with AIG. That said dublin went from Arnotts to Vodafone to AIG by maximising how they sold the brand. How many other counties have put in the work to so that? How many could be bothered? On that side dublin are extraordinarily professional and it’s not a bad thing

That’s not to say I do t want changes to funding or don’t agree that there’s issues. Equally though hobbling dublin to open up a pathway for other bigger counties like Kerry or Mayo, who also already have advantages over the pack doesn’t seem the right way to go. I’d rather a model that creates a proper competitive competition but that’s not easy in a county and provincial format. At a minimum the provincial format is past its sell by date.

On funding I’d hugely support increasing funds to weaker counties. I also want them to actually use it to develop their structures properly, from kids up I’d also support pooling a portion of revenue, maybe 50%, with allocation to smaller counties the priority, but I’d also want counties to maximise what they can get themselves and be a bit professional about it


Finally a lot of supporters need to get real on how quickly these things happen. We’ve had one poster blaming dublin funding for success in the early 2000s- it’s insane. Building something takes time and unless the investments are made on that basis it will always be a poor mouth model

ArielAtom

munster87 wrote: »

The damage has already been done at intercounty level with regards to the funding. It doesn’t matter that the project is ended. There are so many advantages and these have started the end of intercounty football in my opinion. A move towards some form of franchised teams over the next decade would be my hope.

Franchise will never work. Embedding quality management with clearly defined strategies on games development from 5-12yrs of age. This was the basis of the Dublin model, the mantra was about inclusion, development, fun etc. But it has worked, figures increased. County boards need professional help with regards to developing budgets, assigning appropriately sized budgets and managing the accordingly.

We need to get past the past funding Dublin received and look forward to developing counties that require assistance.

The Lost Sheep

kilns wrote: »

It will with attitudes like that.

Come on to the forum and all you see is moaning about Dublin this and Dublin that and the only solution the want is defund Dublin, which is very short sighted. Its not just Dublin which is a problem there are fundamental problems with how the whole system and competition is devised.

I would love to hear proper solutions which would provide a level playing field for all, not just splitting Dublin and therefore in the short term boasting Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone

My suggestions would be:

1. Scrap the county system as we know it. Create 20-24 Franchises, for example Dublin 1, Dublin 2, Longford/Roscommon, Louth/Armagh, Cork 1, Cork 2 etc etc. It would take probably a generation to buy into it but it needs to be done

2. Scrap County boards and centralise everything. Lets be honest most county boards are useless and involves small time politics which holds back progression

3. Centralise Coaching and Games Development for the whole Island

4. Centralise club fixtures and the calendars

Just my suggestions

Scrapping the county system makes no sense. Its part of the whole basic identity of the GAA and what has made the GAA the dominant force in sport in Ireland.
Scrapping county boards and centralising everyhing isnt feasible. How would that be better. Yes there is a lot of small time politics in the county boards but that would be the case with whatever system is in place.
When you say centralise coaching and games development What do you want done differently and how would you that be done?
How would you centralise club fixtures?
There is a calendar put in place but when you have to try base a clubs season around how the inter county team does then of course there will be issues.
In rugby/soccer players can know well in advance of the entire season what weekends they will definitely play and which they wont.

tobefrank321 wrote: »

What part is false?
You call winning 5 AIs in 26 years underachieving?

Unless you think the sport should have been purposely rigged so Dublin were winning more often? Which of course is exactly what happened.

Rigging sport so the county with the biggest population wins a specific amont of AIs? The very definition of a corrupt sport.

A rigged corrupt sport, simply no other way to describe it.

Nothing has been rigged in favour of anyone. The county with the biggest population should be expected to win most of the time. Thats natural and happens in virtually all sports.

ShyMets wrote: »

So has anyone explained how splitting Dublin gets the likes of Waterford, Antrim & Leitrim closer to winning a provincial title

It doesnt change a thing.

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Only professionalism would make the likes of Leitrim competitive and that would probably include recruiting 3-4 professionals from other counties. Aside from that massively disproportionate gdf and professional coaches in every club as well as a professional county board CEO and other officials would in time see Leitrim win provincial titles. But of course the likes of Leitrim have been starved of funds in recent years with money instead rolling into super rich Dublin.

It wouldnt make them competitive at the top level. A major problem is people think Leitrim etc should be always in the same competition as likes of Dublin and Kerry when they shouldnt. Colchester, Bury play in a cup competition with Man United/Chelsea. Their main competition of the year is several tiers below these sides. Something similar has to be in place in the GAA.

Enquiring wrote: »

Theres huge anger out there. I think Dubs like Gilroy and others need to read the current mood instead of lying and burying their heads in the sand. The deflection and accusations of jealousy used to work but more and more people are learning the facts about just how disgraceful the whole funding issue is.

All areas have been affected by the funding imbalance but probably Gaelic football and ladies football have been affected the most. Think of what it was like pre funding. The Leinster championship was an open competition with numerous winners, we had new All Ireland winners and a good spread. 22 counties have won provincial championships since the 90's. There was nothing wrong with Gaelic football and no talk of demoting counties or anything else.

How do we get back to that point. Obviously we split Dublin into 4 but along with that, we fund every county fairly and we sort out issues such as sponsorship pooling etc

What exactly is fair funding for each county. The interest in GAA will be bigger in lot of other counties in schools than many in Dublin because there is so much else on offer. Most parishes countrywide and the GAA clubs are much more closely linked so clubs will have people going into schools
Sponsorship pooling isnt really a good thing. AIG, Kerry Group will be less likely to give money if the money they invest isnt going to the team they are supporting.
The Leinster Football championship wasnt really that open a competition though. Just look at finals. 90s are a very big outlier to what usually has happened.

Deathknell

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Pointing out that Kildare, Meath etc are underperforming by not being able to win a provincial championship against a team that has a 15 point winning margin in the province over the last ten years and has won eight of ten all Irelands in the same period is the most simplistic bit of analysis I've seen in this thread yet.

As simple as blaming Dublin for their lack of competitiveness perhaps?
Sometimes simple is spot on and the truth is unpalatable.
There are other ways to perform - How have those 4 counties done in the back door or super 8s?
The facts are they have not done anything of note except Newbridge or nowhere.

Your argument is based on the Beal Bocht. We cannot perform because Dublin have all the money. But Mayo show you can at least compete.

Yes - every county has unique issues and different circumstances. Some get on anyway.

jmayo

ooter wrote: »

In 2018 limerick had 2 home games and played in cork, Clare, Carlow, semple and croker and I didn't hear any cribbing from them.

They played Galway in the final in Croker.
Did they have to play Galway in Galway with Galway basically playing all their matches in Galway?

You and others are damn fond of using the great Kerry and Kilkenny teams but let me ask you this.
How many of their games did they play in Kerry and Kilkenny respectively ?

Did they play all their provincial finals at home and have the other teams play the semi finals and finals in their counties as well ????

ooter

Since the 70s Kerry have played Dublin in 9 all Ireland finals. It was no bother when they were regularly coming up to bate the dubs in their own back yard and they weren't putting up much of a fight but the last 3 finals have all gone Dublin's way and suddenly the dubs have to be taken out of croker. Grand so.
By the way, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if that was to happen, work away and take the dubs out of croker.
Up to the 2011 final Kerry had won 8 out of 10 championship matches against dublin in croke park, same stadium in the same city.

Deathknell

tritium wrote: »

Your points above are fair but they also miss a number of additional al points

1 dublin also have a series of disadvantages including price of land and other facilities and a limited supply of available land. They also face competition for players and resources that doesn’t exist in many counties. Managing both advantages and disadvantages is the key to optimising output

2 many counties have badly managed their advantages- counties with 200-600k people are not being dwarfed by dublins population advantages in the way Leitrim with 30k is

3 Finance and access to resources is a longer term as broader GAA problem- the GAA has always been about haves and have nots


By the way I’m not expecting every county to sign deals with AIG. That said dublin went from Arnotts to Vodafone to AIG by maximising how they sold the brand. How many other counties have put in the work to so that? How many could be bothered? On that side dublin are extraordinarily professional and it’s not a bad thing

That’s not to say I do t want changes to funding or don’t agree that there’s issues. Equally though hobbling dublin to open up a pathway for other bigger counties like Kerry or Mayo, who also already have advantages over the pack doesn’t seem the right way to go. I’d rather a model that creates a proper competitive competition but that’s not easy in a county and provincial format. At a minimum the provincial format is past its sell by date.

On funding I’d hugely support increasing funds to weaker counties. I also want them to actually use it to develop their structures properly, from kids up I’d also support pooling a portion of revenue, maybe 50%, with allocation to smaller counties the priority, but I’d also want counties to maximise what they can get themselves and be a bit professional about it


Finally a lot of supporters need to get real on how quickly these things happen. We’ve had one poster blaming dublin funding for success in the early 2000s- it’s insane. Building something takes time and unless the investments are made on that basis it will always be a poor mouth model

ooter wrote: »

Since the 70s Kerry have played Dublin in 9 all Ireland finals. It was no bother when they were regularly coming up to bate the dubs in their own back yard and they weren't putting up much of a fight but the last 3 finals have all gone Dublin's way and suddenly the dubs have to be taken out of croker. Grand so.
By the way, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if that was to happen, work away and take the dubs out of croker.
Up to the 2011 final Kerry had won 8 out of 10 championship matches against dublin in croke park, same stadium in the same city.

Its the first and easiest bandaid. It should be done for the health of the competition, short term financial gain be-damned.. Leinster football Provincials games (if they exist in the near future) should be played on a strict home & away basis from that point of view - or a neutral venue.

It should be done for no other reason than the laugh it gives the rest of the country watching the poor Dubs trying to find their way around outside the M50.

tobefrank321

tritium wrote: »

As another poster pointed out here previously Dublin built their entire GAA foundation on the back of “blow ins” from strong counties yet you couldn’t be bothered trying to leverage this in the opposite direction in other counties.

Dublin have already delivered a template for winning hearts and minds from other sporting opportunities that can be applied

Others have already complained that there’s too many players in dublin already for the opportunity available in terms of places

Yet it’s not worth looking at

What a cop out

More of the "let them eat cake" advice!

There's been more "blow-ins" and their children in the last 30 years to Dublin than the population of Mayo and Kerry combined.

Dublin is projected to grow by 400,000 in the next 15 years further adding to the farce.

tobefrank321

ooter wrote: »

Since the 70s Kerry have played Dublin in 9 all Ireland finals. It was no bother when they were regularly coming up to bate the dubs in their own back yard and they weren't putting up much of a fight but the last 3 finals have all gone Dublin's way and suddenly the dubs have to be taken out of croker. Grand so.
By the way, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if that was to happen, work away and take the dubs out of croker.
Up to the 2011 final Kerry had won 8 out of 10 championship matches against dublin in croke park, same stadium in the same city.

You're right. And Dublin got sick of being beaten on a level playing field in their own backyard. Something clearly had to be done about this unfairness ie Kerry and Dublin competing on a level playing field.

tritium

Hammer Archer wrote: »

If it were that easy, why did Dublin need over a decade of games development funding (available to no others) to get kids playing gaelic games? Could they not have just asked?

Because it takes a decade to build something like dublin did, and longer to make it sustainable Why does everyone want the solution that sees their team competitive this year or next? Thats not what dublin have done. That’s not what building structures achieves. It’s a foundation that you build on.

ooter

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Dublin is projected to grow by 400,000 in the next 15 years further adding to the farce.

And they still won't win a senior hurling all Ireland.

tobefrank321

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Nothing has been rigged in favour of anyone. The county with the biggest population should be expected to win most of the time. Thats natural and happens in most sports

And why not the Dublin model to other large population underperforming counties like Kildare in football or Galway in the hurling?

Blows a massive hole in the sport needs to be rigged to favour big population counties which is what you are advocating.

Its a rigged sport, and once that started to happen in favour of Dublin it was well on the way to being a dead sport.

In fairness to most Dubs they do not hide the fact Dublin needed a leg up from the GAA to be competitive.

The only other sport I know where the administrators rigged or turned a blind eye to an unfair advantage is cycling!