The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

ShyMets

tobefrank321 wrote: »

And why not the Dublin model to other large population underperforming counties like Kildare in football or Galway in the hurling?

Blows a massive hole in the sport needs to be rigged to favour big population counties which is what you are advocating.

Its a rigged sport, and once that started to happen in favour of Dublin it was well on the way to being a dead sport.

In fairness to most Dubs they do not hide the fact Dublin needed a leg up from the GAA to be competitive.

The only other sport I know where the administrators rigged or turned a blind eye to an unfair advantage is cycling!

You're just on a wind up now

tobefrank321

ooter wrote: »

And they still won't win a senior hurling all Ireland.

Maybe not in 15 years but by 2050 its certain they will dominate hurling. Its only a matter of time.

ArielAtom

ShyMets wrote: »

You're just on a wind up now

Not on a wind up. There is a name for it, but I'd receive a yellow card.

tobefrank321

ShyMets wrote: »

You're just on a wind up now

The truth hurts..rigged sport, bought success.

dunnerc

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Maybe not in 15 years but by 2050 its certain they will dominate hurling. Its only a matter of time.

Its certain really ?Lets be frank here nothing in sport is certain :rolleyes:

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

You’re really beyond a joke with this nonsense at this point

Ladies football was dominated (really dominated) by cork before dublin. It was no more competitive in terms of variety of winner.

Since you want to use since the 90s as a benchmark, 5 Leinster counties have won the provincial title in that time. Munster by contrast has had 3 winners thanks to Tipp in this oddest of years (but it’s grand cause share its a hurling province right?). Connachts had 4 and, hailed as ultra competitive ulster has had 5

At AI level excluding dublin we’ve had 6 Kerry wins in that 21 years, 3 Tyrone and one each for Galway Antrim cork and Donegal. Not exactly an open spread when most teams are scrabbling for the odd scrap (but sure tell us how much you care about poor wee ulster)

As for funding every county fairly. Define that would be for you? What is you model for fair? Same for all? Per capita (which would increase Dublin funding)? **** or get off the pot mate, tell us how you’d share it out?

On the sponsorship pooling, why exactly would any county negotiate a best possible sponsorship deal and have their players show up to promotional events just to give the money away? I mean I thought it was surreal when the Kildare GAA exec asked for their cut of dublins sponsorship, but it looks like some people actually believe this ****. Why exactly can’t counties maximise their own sponsorship deals first? Cause most of them haven’t done so. What about “fundraising” (including expensive corporate dinners and”gifts). Would they be pooled too?

You are just rambling now. I was talking about the influence of the millions of euros pumped into Dublin GAA. Gaelic football, both men's and women's has been affected greatly, probably above all others. 22 counties have won provincial titles since the 90's. That shows that many counties can compete. Especially when competing on an equal footing as the other teams.

Dont forget that Dublin were spending 3 million on coaches while some other counties had 7,500. That's the opposite of fair. I've stated already that each county should get funding appropriate to them. This would involve having enough coaches necessary to develop hurling and football at club level but also a paid officer has to be in place to oversee it.

Pooled sponsorship is the fair way forward. You cant have some counties such as Dublin getting 1.5 million per year on top of everything else and still having fair competitions.

The Lost Sheep

tobefrank321 wrote: »

And why not the Dublin model to other large population underperforming counties like Kildare in football or Galway in the hurling?

Blows a massive hole in the sport needs to be rigged to favour big population counties which is what you are advocating.

Its a rigged sport, and once that started to happen in favour of Dublin it was well on the way to being a dead sport.

In fairness to most Dubs they do not hide the fact Dublin needed a leg up from the GAA to be competitive.

The only other sport I know where the administrators rigged or turned a blind eye to an unfair advantage is cycling!

Saying rigged is a terrible take on things. nothing malicious has happened.
I havent advocated anything. Its very simple premise that the sides/teams with biggest population will nearly always be the teams that win. They have biggest numbers going into their development systems and all that follows that. They will/should have biggest support so finances will be bigger
Comparing GAA/Gaelic football to cycling is horrendous.

tobefrank321

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Saying rigged is a terrible take on things. nothing malicious has happened.
I havent advocated anything. Its very simple premise that the sides/teams with biggest population will nearly always be the teams that win. They have biggest numbers going into their development systems and all that follows that. They will/should have biggest support so finances will be bigger
Comparing GAA/Gaelic football to cycling is horrendous.

But you agree Dublin were handed an unfair advantage circa 2002?

ooter

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Maybe not in 15 years but by 2050 its certain they will dominate hurling. Its only a matter of time.

I've heard of being born with a Hurley in your hand but this is taking it to a whole new level, this 2050 crop haven't even been born yet. Are Dublin going to genetically modify or Clone hurlers in the future?

The Lost Sheep

tobefrank321 wrote: »

But you agree Dublin were handed an unfair advantage circa 2002?

No they werent. The GAA saw a county that had/has well over 20% of the countrys population as needing help to counter and compete better with other sports which were getting much stronger and losing out in Dublin wouldnt have been good for the sport nationwide

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

You are just rambling now. I was talking about the influence of the millions of euros pumped into Dublin GAA. Gaelic football, both men's and women's has been affected greatly, probably above all others. 22 counties have won provincial titles since the 90's. That shows that many counties can compete. Especially when competing on an equal footing as the other teams.

Dont forget that Dublin were spending 3 million on coaches while some other counties had 7,500. That's the opposite of fair. I've stated already that each county should get funding appropriate to them. This would involve having enough coaches necessary to develop hurling and football at club level but also a paid officer has to be in place to oversee it.

Pooled sponsorship is the fair way forward. You cant have some counties such as Dublin getting 1.5 million per year on top of everything else and still having fair competitions.

The influence that enabled the lady footballers to travel back in time and win an AI before the funding started

That enabled the u21s to do the same

Cause that what you attributed to both of them in your previous posts.

Serious money if dublin are dealing in time travel now. They could even go back in time and erase the great Kerry team.

Or maybe you’re just talking bitter nonsense

Still no idea what your idea of fair allocation is btw, could you fill in some details on the how? Is it per player or does every county get the same for example?

On the sponsorship, do you really think teams will maximise revenue when there’s no benefit over what you get by letting everyone else do the work. I vaguely remember it was tried in Eastern Europe last century and wasn’t a great success tbh

ShyMets

tobefrank321 wrote: »

But you agree Dublin were handed an unfair advantage circa 2002?

Perhaps you should contact your county board and raise your concerns. Instead of spending a good deal of your time on an anonymous chat site ranting about Dublin.

County boards have the power to force change. Internet forums do not

Bass Reeves

tritium wrote: »

Your points above are fair but they also miss a number of additional al points

1 dublin also have a series of disadvantages including price of land and other facilities and a limited supply of available land. They also face competition for players and resources that doesn’t exist in many counties. Managing both advantages and disadvantages is the key to optimising output

2 many counties have badly managed their advantages- counties with 200-600k people are not being dwarfed by dublins population advantages in the way Leitrim with 30k is

3 Finance and access to resources is a longer term as broader GAA problem- the GAA has always been about haves and have nots


By the way I’m not expecting every county to sign deals with AIG. That said dublin went from Arnotts to Vodafone to AIG by maximising how they sold the brand. How many other counties have put in the work to so that? How many could be bothered? On that side dublin are extraordinarily professional and it’s not a bad thing

That’s not to say I do t want changes to funding or don’t agree that there’s issues. Equally though hobbling dublin to open up a pathway for other bigger counties like Kerry or Mayo, who also already have advantages over the pack doesn’t seem the right way to go. I’d rather a model that creates a proper competitive competition but that’s not easy in a county and provincial format. At a minimum the provincial format is past its sell by date.

On funding I’d hugely support increasing funds to weaker counties. I also want them to actually use it to develop their structures properly, from kids up I’d also support pooling a portion of revenue, maybe 50%, with allocation to smaller counties the priority, but I’d also want counties to maximise what they can get themselves and be a bit professional about it


Finally a lot of supporters need to get real on how quickly these things happen. We’ve had one poster blaming dublin funding for success in the early 2000s- it’s insane. Building something takes time and unless the investments are made on that basis it will always be a poor mouth model

There is only3 counties with populations greater than 200k Cork county 550k Galway 260k and Kildare225 accordance to the 2016 census. Meath was 195k and may have exceed it now.

If Dublin was put into is administrative district's Dublin City and Cork city and countym the biggest GAA county with 550k, followed Fingal 300k and South Dublin 280k. Galway 260k followed by Kildare and Dun Laoghaire next on 220k. Meath and Limeriick are at 195k

https://www.joe.ie/news/ireland-census-figures-584182

tritium

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is only3 counties with populations greater than 200k Cork county 550k Galway 260k and Kildare225 accordance to the 2016 census. Meath was 195k and may have exceed it now.

If Dublin was put into is administrative district's Dublin City and Cork city and countym the biggest GAA county with 550k, followed Fingal 300k and South Dublin 280k. Galway 260k followed by Kildare and Dun Laoghaire next on 220k. Meath and Limeriick are at 195k

https://www.joe.ie/news/ireland-census-figures-584182

You’re forgetting the north / 7 counties on the island with >200k, 3 or 4 more likely to be close to or over it by now. A few more heading that way steadily

Bass Reeves

tritium wrote: »

You know the GAA uses 32 counties right?

I was replying to

many counties have badly managed their advantages- counties with 200-600k people are not being dwarfed by dublins population advantages in the way Leitrim with 30k is

Beechwoodspark

So the consensus seems to be

Split dublin into 2 at least but preferably 4
Review funding
Reduce funding for dublin and bring up funding for rest so as to
Bring about a situation where a player in Roscommon or Carlow for example receives same funding as a dub, taking into account the inherent advantages dublin players benefit from

tritium

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I was replying to

many counties have badly managed their advantages- counties with 200-600k people are not being dwarfed by dublins population advantages in the way Leitrim with 30k is

that comment is about dublins population advantage in GAA terms, you can’t exclude the 6 counties

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I would really prefer not to split Dublin, and I was against the idea for a long time, but I increasingly wonder if there's any other option that would have a big impact.

salmocab

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I would really prefer not to split Dublin, and I was against the idea for a long time, but I increasingly wonder if there's any other option that would have a big impact.

The thing is for all the talk here it’s the only thing that won’t be happening.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

salmocab wrote: »

The thing is for all the talk here it’s the only thing that won’t be happening.

It probably won't happen unless things get really, really bad. I hope I'm wrong now and was right before and that things can be fixed.

ClanofLams

salmocab wrote: »

The thing is for all the talk here it’s the only thing that won’t be happening.

Declining interest already result in falling crowds and tv viewership. Leinster finals with Dublin used to be full houses. Dublin Tyrone All Ireland final couple of years ago wasn’t entirely full.

Covid may result in increased crowds this year assuming allowed back by summer as bit of novelty factor but long term Dublin will keep winning and that will result in interest levels falling further. GAA will eventually take action.

Enquiring

munster87 wrote: »

The damage has already been done at intercounty level with regards to the funding. It doesn’t matter that the project is ended. There are so many advantages and these have started the end of intercounty football in my opinion. A move towards some form of franchised teams over the next decade would be my hope.

The project hasn't ended anyway. Dublin are still spending close to 3 million on coaches every year.

salmocab

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

It probably won't happen unless things get really, really bad. I hope I'm wrong now and was right before and that things can be fixed.

I can’t imagine any other sets of people advocating for making the best worse instead of making other outfits better.
A proper review of what works and what doesn’t and how to increase the quality of adults playing the game by improving whatever is needed at underage and infrastructure wise should be done. There is a model in Dublin that parts of could be replicated but other parts won’t work elsewhere due to various factors like population density, size of clubs etc. Then money should be funnelled into enacting plans countrywide with county boards given certain criteria they have to meet.
I would think the first job would be to identify a group to investigate what Dublin do, what others do and what should be done, throwing money at it with no overarching plan would be a waste for a lot of the country. People like Pat Gilroy would be great to have involved.

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

The influence that enabled the lady footballers to travel back in time and win an AI before the funding started

That enabled the u21s to do the same

Cause that what you attributed to both of them in your previous posts.

Serious money if dublin are dealing in time travel now. They could even go back in time and erase the great Kerry team.

Or maybe you’re just talking bitter nonsense

Still no idea what your idea of fair allocation is btw, could you fill in some details on the how? Is it per player or does every county get the same for example?

On the sponsorship, do you really think teams will maximise revenue when there’s no benefit over what you get by letting everyone else do the work. I vaguely remember it was tried in Eastern Europe last century and wasn’t a great success tbh

You obviously don't know when the funding started!

Also, you clearly have no interest in fair play in Gaelic games. You're happy to see Dublin win no matter what. Millions of euros from taxpayers while everyone else get pittance and then add the sponsorship money gained off the back of it!

ooter

ClanofLams wrote: »

Dublin Tyrone All Ireland final couple of years ago wasn’t entirely full.

What was the attendance, and if you have the attendance for the 2018 hurling final could you provide that please?

Enquiring

ShyMets wrote: »

Perhaps you should contact your county board and raise your concerns. Instead of spending a good deal of your time on an anonymous chat site ranting about Dublin.

County boards have the power to force change. Internet forums do not

Why is it so hard for some Dubs to admit to some facts? They are facts, it's been shown to you over and over again but so many Dubs cant say, yes, we got multiple times the amount other counties got. It can't be that difficult to say.

Enquiring

salmocab wrote: »

I can’t imagine any other sets of people advocating for making the best worse instead of making other outfits better.
A proper review of what works and what doesn’t and how to increase the quality of adults playing the game by improving whatever is needed at underage and infrastructure wise should be done. There is a model in Dublin that parts of could be replicated but other parts won’t work elsewhere due to various factors like population density, size of clubs etc. Then money should be funnelled into enacting plans countrywide with county boards given certain criteria they have to meet.
I would think the first job would be to identify a group to investigate what Dublin do, what others do and what should be done, throwing money at it with no overarching plan would be a waste for a lot of the country. People like Pat Gilroy would be great to have involved.

3 million in average every year on professional coaches. Some counties had 7,500 to spend some years while Dublin were spending that. Close to 100 titles gained by Dublin post funding. You know this is the reason for people calling for a Dublin split, why are you pretending it's not?

Bass Reeves

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So the consensus seems to be

Split dublin into 2 at least but preferably 4
Review funding
Reduce funding for dublin and bring up funding for rest so as to
Bring about a situation where a player in Roscommon or Carlow for example receives same funding as a dub, taking into account the inherent advantages dublin players benefit from

No point in doing a half assed job. Splitting into its administrative districts. Then you split Dublin City area in two North and South of the Liffy. This would give five counties with less populations of between 2-300k

tritium wrote: »

that comment is about dublins population advantage in GAA terms, you can’t exclude the 6 counties

I not however I allowed for 51% Unionist population which cuts all counties by about half.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I would really prefer not to split Dublin, and I was against the idea for a long time, but I increasingly wonder if there's any other option that would have a big impact.

I would have as well. But there is no other effective. Method of reducing the effect and making the All Ireland competition fairly competitive again. I am not sure if splitting it in two would do that without seriously limiting. GAA funding

ClanofLams

ooter wrote: »

What was the attendance, and if you have the attendance for the 2018 hurling final could you provide that please?

The hurling was a full house, I was at it.

Per the Irish Times

"Dublin’s 2018 All-Ireland with Tyrone didn’t sell out and although this was not officially acknowledged, the weight of anecdotal evidence of empty seats in different areas of the stadium suggested otherwise."

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/as-dublin-stroll-to-another-final-when-will-the-gaa-say-the-system-is-broken-1.4428954

Less than one million watched RTÉ coverage last Saturday, down from 1.3 million when the teams last met in an All Ireland final. In all sports, domination leads to declining interest, even from supporters of the dominant team, as reflected in drop in attendance at Dublin games matching the overall fall in attendance.

jmayo

ClanofLams wrote: »

The hurling was a full house, I was at it.

Per the Irish Times

"Dublin’s 2018 All-Ireland with Tyrone didn’t sell out and although this was not officially acknowledged, the weight of anecdotal evidence of empty seats in different areas of the stadium suggested otherwise."

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/as-dublin-stroll-to-another-final-when-will-the-gaa-say-the-system-is-broken-1.4428954

Less than one million watched RTÉ coverage last Saturday, down from 1.3 million when the teams last met in an All Ireland final. In all sports, domination leads to declining interest, even from supporters of the dominant team, as reflected in drop in attendance at Dublin games matching the overall fall in attendance.

I will readily admit I was only guaranteed watching because it was Mayo.
If it was Kerry I would probably have watched to see the lie of the land, but at this stage anyone else would be probably be a no.

Asked the kids to check how the semi was going to see if Cavan were
doing anything.
Got the feedback and decided peeling the spuds for the dinner was more interesting.

Same when Kilkenny were dominating.
As it was All Ireland went to effort to travel to Irish pub in Brittany to watch one of their finals, it was their demolition of Waterford.
Lost interest half way through and decided to check out the town instead.

It is like watching the All Blacks take on Tonga or most other countries most of the time.
You know the outcome.
It's not your team and the underdog is just going to pummeled into submission.
You just wonder what's the point.

It's ending up like those meaningless WC games where the top Tier 1 Rugby nations are playing the no hopers there to make up the numbers.
You know the ones where the game is played in one of the mickie mouse stadiums because they know they won't attract massive crowd.