Covid 19 Part XXIX-85,394 ROI(2,200 deaths) 62,723 NI (1,240 deaths) (26/12) Read OP

Necro · 15-12-2020 08:40PM

Stheno wrote: »

It's the communication style imo, it just doesn't set the right tone at all.

It's one of exasperation and condesencion

Yeah Glynn is much more relatable than Holohan. He can come across as snarky I do find.

Deeper Blue · 15-12-2020 08:41PM

I also think Holohan gets extra flak considering his history

ACitizenErased · 15-12-2020 08:42PM

Holohan is a public figure. He deserves both criticism and praise, why is this some big issue?

KrustyUCC · 15-12-2020 08:42PM

prunudo wrote: »

Absolutely, the government wouldn't be thanked for it. Just have a feeling nphet will push for tightening of some restrictions before the 6th of January.
I still think we're doing exceptional well and hopefully numbers will remain some what stable but given previous performances and the current language from the cmo it seems to be following a similar pattern to March amd October.

Yes NPHET probably will alright even though they also know the government won't act on that advice until the new year

WhiteMemento9 · 15-12-2020 08:44PM

Stheno wrote: »

It's the communication style imo, it just doesn't set the right tone at all.

It's one of exasperation and condesencion

If I wanted to set a tone then the one I would want to get across to people is ^^^. This isn't a time to be giving out gold stars and participation medials to the class.

Stheno · 15-12-2020 08:46PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Can you fecking blame him?

Necro wrote: »

Yeah Glynn is much more relatable than Holohan. He can come across as snarky I do find.

Exactly, I thought Glynns messaging about the vaccines this week was excellent, he explained things well and struck a good note

Seamai · 15-12-2020 08:48PM

Necro wrote: »

Yeah Glynn is much more relatable than Holohan. He can come across as snarky I do find.

I find Glynn way too indirect with his responses to questions, almost as if he's terrified of offending even the tiniest percentage of the population.

ACitizenErased · 15-12-2020 08:49PM

Stheno wrote: »

Exactly, I thought Glynns messaging about the vaccines this week was excellent, he explained things well and struck a good note

Glynn is miles and miles ahead, way more compassionate

Stheno · 15-12-2020 08:52PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Glynn is miles and miles ahead, way more compassionate

I think he is more relatable given his age, the fact he has young children etc.

Holohan at times appears to think the entire population are cretins

odyssey06 · 15-12-2020 08:57PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Holohan is a public figure. He deserves both criticism and praise, why is this some big issue?

It depends on whether it is criticising the way he conducts himself within the scipe of his role.

Or whether he is just used as a lightning rod for the restrictions themselves / without regard to how other countries responding eg calling him Dr Death

Necro · 15-12-2020 08:57PM

Seamai wrote: »

I find Glynn way too indirect with his responses to questions, almost as if he's terrified of offending even the tiniest percentage of the population.

Initially he was a bit 'rabbit in the headlights' when he had to step in for Tony but I thought he grew into it well.

I think people also feel he got a bit of a raw deal from the GAA directly calling him out a few months back.

Plumbthedepths · 15-12-2020 08:59PM

I see amnesia is rampant on this thread going by the last few pages.
Have people forgotten the advice Holohan gave to nursing homes whilst it was obvious whom the virus targeted? Have people forgetten the Cervical Smear scandal. Holohan was asked to resign twice in the past and it wasn't for kicks and giggles.

Necro · 15-12-2020 08:59PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

It depends on whether it is criticising the way he conducts himself within the scipe of his role.

Or whether he is just used as a lightning rod for the restrictions themselves / without regard to how other countries responding eg calling him Dr Death

That second part is absolutely silly alright. Especially the nicknames.

crossman47 · 15-12-2020 09:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

People don’t need any more guidance. Those of whom you speak know exactly what they are doing wrong. But they don’t care. There isn’t a human in Ireland who doesn’t know what they are supposed to be doing

I'm afraid there are plenty of them. Just talk to a teacher about parents who haven't a clue they are doing anything wrong even when breaching the most basic guidelines.

Ficheall · 15-12-2020 09:06PM

Necro wrote: »

That second part is absolutely silly alright. Especially the nicknames.

Like calling people doom-mongers and curtain-twitchers on here?

15-12-2020 09:07PM

crossman47 wrote: »

I'm afraid there are plenty of them. Just talk to a teacher about parents who haven't a clue they are doing anything wrong even when breaching the most basic guidelines.

There is a difference between genuinely not knowing the rules and being wilfully ignorant of the rules. Most of these people fall into the latter, and there is no amount of messaging at this stage that will make a difference

crossman47 · 15-12-2020 09:09PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I see amnesia is rampant on this thread going by the last few pages.
Have people forgotten the advice Holohan gave to nursing homes whilst it was obvious whom the virus targeted? Have people forgetten the Cervical Smear scandal. Holohan was asked to resign twice in the past and it wasn't for kicks and giggles.

Just think who wanted him to resign - opposition politicians looking for a scapegoat. I'm not going to bother explaining again that the so called cervical check scandal was one of communication and did not cost a single life. I was glad to see the doctor in charge made this clear again last week.

Necro · 15-12-2020 09:11PM

Mod:

Folks let's not drag the cervical cancer stuff into this thread again please. If you want to discuss it feel free to start a thread elsewhere. Let's keep things Covid related. Thanks

Plumbthedepths · 15-12-2020 09:15PM

crossman47 wrote: »

Just think who wanted him to resign - opposition politicians looking for a scapegoat. I'm not going to bother explaining again that the so called cervical check scandal was one of communication and did not cost a single life. I was glad to see the doctor in charge made this clear again last week.

Any thoughts on Holohans advice to the nursing homes back in March, when the elderly were dying in their dorves in Bergamo at the same time?

Arghus · 15-12-2020 10:04PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Any thoughts on Holohans advice to the nursing homes back in March, when the elderly were dying in their dorves in Bergamo at the same time?

A lot of things are stated here and elsewhere on the forum in relation to this and it's become a trump card - "nursing homes" - in a lot of arguments about him personally and NPHET as a whole.

In retrospect it's very clear that that NPHET overruling Nursing Homes Ireland about cancelling visits etc, etc was a mistake. They should have been more proactive and seen what was happening - but it is easy for us to say that now at a distance of several months.

The beginning of March was a pretty crazy time and there was a lot everyone didn't know then: the WHO hadn't even declared a pandemic at that stage, we hadn't really considered the risks posed by asymptomatic spread. Nobody really knew what was going on and there were a lot of decisions being made on the fly based on incomplete or totally lacking information. And most of the focus was elsewhere - hospitals rather than nursing homes.

NPHET were undoubtedly slow to act and it did end up costing lives. They deserve criticism in that regard - but I think they've improved and learnt from that experience. Since then I think their advice has been proactive and effective. Since the first wave we have on the whole managed the disease better than most other European countries. I think they deserve credit for that. This endless line of argument that NPHET are useless and don't know what they doing doesn't hold any water when you look at what elsewhere in Europe is dealing with right now.

caveat emptor · 15-12-2020 10:06PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Any thoughts on Holohans advice to the nursing homes back in March, when the elderly were dying in their dorves in Bergamo at the same time?

Yeah I didn't agree with it at the time. I'm sure in hindsight he'd say it was wrong. Lot's of people at the time were calling it inhumane to not allow people to visit nursing homes. I'm sure some still do. It's like the mental health argument vs public health argument. Both are very important. Mental health arguments usually used by many as a proxy for let everything back to normal.

I suspect those who struggled with mental health throughout this (probably the majority of people including myself) found solutions within the guidelines or outside them. I also suspect that's why they were guidelines. If a person is finding it hard doesn't mean we should throw out the public health measures and face systematic issues like other European countries. It would have been great to go to the pub /visit family etc last month but I'm glad there aren't queues of ambulances outside multiple hospitals here. If I were a publican I'd probably have a different opinion of course.

Plumbthedepths · 15-12-2020 10:14PM

Arghus wrote: »

A lot of things are stated here and elsewhere on the forum in relation to this and it's become a trump card - "nursing homes" in a lot of arguments about him personally and NPHET as a whole.

In retrospect it's very clear that that NPHET overruling Nursing Homes Ireland about cancelling visits etc, etc was a mistake. They should have been more proactive and seen what was happening - but it is easy for us to say that now at a distance of several months.

The beginning of March was a pretty crazy time and there was a lot everyone didn't know then: the WHO hadn't even declared a pandemic at that stage, we hadn't really considered the risks posed by asymptomatic spread. Nobody really knew what was going on and there were a lot of decisions being made on the fly based on incomplete or totally lacking information. And most of the focus was elsewhere - hospitals rather than nursing homes.

NPHET were undoubtedly slow to act and it did end up costing lives. They deserve criticism in that regard - but I think they've improved and learnt from that experience. Since then I think their advice has been proactive and effective. Since the first wave we have on the whole managed the disease better than most other European countries. I think they deserve credit for that. This endless line of argument that NPHET are useless and don't know what they doing doesn't hold any water when you look at what elsewhere in Europe is dealing with right now.

Absolute rubbish, are you seriously trying to suggest there was no fore knowledge of whom was most at risk? Patients were transferred out of hospitals straight into nursing homes without a test.
Someone on this thread was bemoaning the name calling by some using names like doomongers etc. A particularly nasty label was 'granny killer'. It seems the HSE and Nphet (based on who makes up this team) were the biggest killers of all.
I suspect however there will be an inquiry in the future as to what happened. I can write the findings now, 'systemic failures , lessons will be learned'. No one of course will be found culpable of any f**kup.

TonyMaloney · 15-12-2020 10:21PM

This will bore the tits off most of you, but i think it's interesting.
I've been doing a bit of amateur analysis of our recent Google Mobility data. Specifically trying to assess how we're doing right now compared with recent months.

Here's some findings.

1. On the 5th of Dec our public transport use was as high as it's been since the 3rd of Oct, prior to Level 3.

2. On Monday the 7th of Dec our use of non-essential retail, pubs, restaurants etc etc was only down 10% on what it would be normally, outside a pandemic. We hadn't seen anything like that since some time in the summer.

3. We're going food shopping at an unprecedented level. Often about 10% on what it would be normally, outside a pandemic.

4. We're staying at home less. On the 5th of Dec our levels were lower than they'd been since the 3rd of Oct, prior to Level 3.

5. Accordingly, we're going to workplaces more and more. Despite the continued request/restriction for us to work from home where possible.
On Friday the 4th of Dec we were -27% off baseline, we haven't had a Friday like that since perhaps the start of the lockdowns in March.
For those poor souls that work weekends, Saturday the 5th was a virtually normal December day, down only 5% on a normal year.

All that is to say that our current Level 3 doesn't seem to be being adhered to like it was back in October. In fact we're behaving a lot closer to how we were in the summer than in October.

Hopefully it all somehow won't matter

TomSweeney · 15-12-2020 10:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The amount of people still walking around with masks under their nose is one of the more obvious bits of evidence about why people need simple guidance.

Masks under their nose outside ?

Arghus · 15-12-2020 10:30PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Absolute rubbish, are you seriously trying to suggest there was no fore knowledge of whom was most at risk? Patients were transferred out of hospitals straight into nursing homes without a test.
Someone on this thread was bemoaning the name calling by some using names like doomongers etc. A particularly nasty label was 'granny killer'. It seems the HSE and Nphet (based on who makes up this team) were the biggest killers of all.
I suspect however there will be an inquiry in the future as to what happened. I can write the findings now, 'systemic failures , lessons will be learned'. No one of course will be found culpable of any f**kup.

Calm down.

No, I'm not disputing that they weren't aware of who was most at risk. Everyone knew even then that the elderly were most at risk - but I think obviously they underestimated the scale of the problem.

It's interesting that you mention the whole "straight into a nursing homes without a test" thing. Wasn't there a chronic shortage of the availability of testing kits the world over at that stage? It would have been impossible to test everyone who was being moved out of hospital at that time. You couldn't get a test even if you had symptoms.

And also has it actually been proven, definitely, that people been moved from hospitals into nursing homes was definitely the cause of the spread in nursing homes. It's stated a lot, but where is the proof? It's repeated a lot.

At the time the amount of Covid in hospitals was surely miniscule. It doesn't sound plausible to me that suddenly loads of presymtomatic Covid patients being moved was the root cause - I'm sure it happened in some cases, but I wonder if you totted up the amount of cases that can be attributed to someone being brought from hospital vs cases being brought in, innocently and unintentionally, by members of staff - instances of which have been documented multiple times - then where would we be?

KrustyUCC · 15-12-2020 10:34PM

Imagine that

Lock down people for six weeks then they will go out more while they can especially when threatened with lockdown again in January

TonyMaloney · 15-12-2020 10:36PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Imagine that

Lock down people for six weeks then they will go out more while they can especially when threatened with lockdown again in January

Exactly. They should never have reopened indoor dining/drinking.

I'm glad we're on the same page

MOR316 · 15-12-2020 10:36PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Imagine that

Lock down people for six weeks then they will go out more while they can especially when threatened with lockdown again in January

Like I said in these threads, it's almost like no one here has any grasp of sociology or human behaviour.

Scary

MOR316 · 15-12-2020 10:37PM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Exactly. They should never have reopened indoor dining/drinking.

I'm glad we're on the same page

No one is stopping you from staying indoors

hotmail.com · 15-12-2020 10:38PM

The public want the pubs and restaurants open.

Covid 19 Part XXIX-85,394 ROI(2,200 deaths) 62,723 NI (1,240 deaths) (26/12) Read OP

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