Citroen Ami

unkel · 10-09-2020 1:34am

AMKC wrote: »

Faur play to the French. It's very progressive unlike us Irish and our aggressive restrictive laws. I do not see this doing well here unless it's very well priced and it would probably only sell in Dublin and Belfast.

And even at that it's too slow. They really need take that 45km/h restriction out if they want to sell here (or in any country that does not have a tradition of these slow "learner" cars)

Patser · 10-09-2020 1:38am

AMKC wrote: »

Faur play to the French. It's very progressive unlike us Irish and our aggressive restrictive laws. I do not see this doing well here unless it's very well priced and it would probably only sell in Dublin and Belfast.

Cheapest electric car going, probably only cost about €6k or €7k, but I don't see them being marketed at private sales in Ireland. Maybe as I said things like Go car (rent by the hour). But it'll be the sort of thing you'll see in resorts in Spain/France/Italy for cheap fun day hire to pootle around near a beach in.

And as said, a 14 year old in France gets his first car, complete with phone holder and Bluetooth speaker to zip around in

Lumen · 10-09-2020 6:10am

So much want.

slave1 · 10-09-2020 8:45am

LOL, want the Ami, loathe the Lucid, to each their own

Lumen · 10-09-2020 8:58am

slave1 wrote: »

LOL, want the Ami, loathe the Lucid, to each their own

I don't loathe the Lucid, I just think it will fail.

unkel · 10-12-2020 12:07am

Couple of UK reviews out today. The FullyCharged one is pretty crap. Not linking to that. Here's the one from Jonny Smith though. Decent as usual, includes tech specs and the price

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUEKtOGmpVI

Joseph SEE · 10-12-2020 10:48am

Apparently, there's a 75 per cent chance of it coming to the UK. It may make it's way here in that case.

Looking into the current regulations, there's little chance that Citroen will ever release a higher speed version. I don't think it's possible to do so with that particular vehicle and still meet L7e requirements.

Twizy traded doors for a hard rigid shell and airbag which they must have deemed critical for 80kph. They traded comfort for speed and needed more protection at said higher speeds.

Citroen are right on the 450kg weight limit (excluding battery) with the Ami. The total weight is 485kg including the 5.5kg battery. I'm guessing that the battery weighs 40kg all in.

For those reasons we won't see a 70/80/90kph version any time soon. You'd need uprated suspension, heavier padded seats, a larger motor and probably an airbag (if not two). It's probably only possible with a carbon fibre vehicle and you're not getting one of those cheaply.

What works fine for the Ami at 45kph probably won't be good enough at higher speeds.

Nothing stopping them from releasing a 10kWh version in future though.

unkel · 10-12-2020 12:26pm

Joseph SEE wrote: »

Looking into the current regulations, there's little chance that Citroen will ever release a higher speed version. I don't think it's possible to do so with that particular vehicle and still meet L7e requirements.

Why do you think that? What are the L7e requirements apart from the max weight (excl. batteries) of 450kg?

oinkely · 10-12-2020 2:42pm

i'd have that for my commute, just take the back road and stay off the motorway. Could be a cool replacement for my citroen c-zero in a few years. Kids could even get themselves to school in it at that stage. Pity my driveway is only big enough for 2 cars!

Joseph SEE · 10-12-2020 2:51pm

unkel wrote: »

Why do you think that? What are the L7e requirements apart from the max weight (excl. batteries) of 450kg?

Apart from weight, there are dimensional requirements, a max speed of 90kph and max power of 15KW.

Weight is the reason. They are basically on the limit with the Ami. You're going to have to add more weight if you want to go faster.

A bigger motor is a few kg more, you need a larger inverter, I think the suspension would need to be upgraded, the seats would probably need extra padding. I think those changes alone would breach 450kg.

I can't see Citroen releasing an 80kph or 90kph version without airbags. They're not going to risk their reputation. There's a huge difference between an impact at 45kph and an impact at 80kph. The Twizy has extra protection for higher speeds. Those add weight. I believe that's the real reason the Twizy doesn't have doors.

Markcheese · 10-12-2020 3:36pm

Joseph SEE wrote: »

Apart from weight, there are dimensional requirements, a max speed of 90kph and max power of 15KW.

Weight is the reason. They are basically on the limit with the Ami. You're going to have to add more weight if you want to go faster.

A bigger motor is a few kg more, you need a larger inverter, I think the suspension would need to be upgraded, the seats would probably need extra padding. I think those changes alone would breach 450kg.

I can't see Citroen releasing an 80kph or 90kph version without airbags. They're not going to risk their reputation. There's a huge difference between an impact at 45kph and an impact at 80kph. The Twizy has extra protection for higher speeds. Those add weight. I believe that's the real reason the Twizy doesn't have doors.

Ah ... I always wondered why there wasn't a slightly upgraded twizzy - slightly faster - slightly bigger battery , bigger charger ect ..
That explains it ..
I'd love a twizzy that could take 2 kids in the back , motorway speeds .. but I suppose that's a regular car by then ...

khalessi · 10-12-2020 3:38pm

Would love one of these

Joseph SEE · 10-12-2020 3:58pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Ah ... I always wondered why there wasn't a slightly upgraded twizzy - slightly faster - slightly bigger battery , bigger charger ect ..
That explains it ..
I'd love a twizzy that could take 2 kids in the back , motorway speeds .. but I suppose that's a regular car by then ...

Whatever about the rest, there's nothing to stop Renault releasing a version with a larger battery. The weight of the battery is excluded from the 450kg limit.

the_amazing_raisin · 10-12-2020 4:32pm

Something like this would be nice for a city car sharing scheme, like Dublin bikes without getting rained on

the_amazing_raisin · 10-12-2020 4:37pm

I feel like this is somehow simultaneously a good and bad idea. The concept of a super compact, super cheap EV for the city is great.

But whatever the licensing situation, this will be treated like a car. In other words, you'll need tax & insurance, and you'll have to drive it on the road and can't park it on a pavement the way a lot of motorbikes seem to do (whether legal or not)

And unlike an electric scooter, you can't bring it into your office or home, so you'll be stuck paying for parking.

So at that point why not go for an actual car like an E-Up (yes it's twice the price but the Ami doesn't seem to save you any hassle)

unkel · 10-12-2020 5:23pm

Joseph SEE wrote: »

You're going to have to add more weight if you want to go faster.

A bigger motor is a few kg more, you need a larger inverter, I think the suspension would need to be upgraded, the seats would probably need extra padding. I think those changes alone would breach 450kg.

Very much doubt you'd need a different motor or inverter for 12kW (compared to 6kW), possibly heavier duty cabling, but there wouldn't be huge weight in that. Also don't think you would need anything done to suspension to go 80km/h instead of 50km/h max. You do have a point about the airbags though, but again, they don't weigh that much

Agreed though that if Citroen wanted to have the option to bring out a faster version, they probably would have tried to make the current one a good 20-30kg lighter at least

This does leave options open for the enthusiast though

If I were ever to buy a Twizy (or an Ami), first thing I'd do is try overclock it a bit

the_amazing_raisin · 10-12-2020 10:51pm

unkel wrote: »

Very much doubt you'd need a different motor or inverter for 12kW (compared to 6kW), possibly heavier duty cabling, but there wouldn't be huge weight in that. Also don't think you would need anything done to suspension to go 80km/h instead of 50km/h max. You do have a point about the airbags though, but again, they don't weigh that much

Agreed though that if Citroen wanted to have the option to bring out a faster version, they probably would have tried to make the current one a good 20-30kg lighter at least

This does leave options open for the enthusiast though

If I were ever to buy a Twizy (or an Ami), first thing I'd do is try overclock it a bit

I suspect the power and speed are limited due to legal constraints rather than technical ones, the thing is classed as a motor scooter rather than a car

Now what you do is rip the motor out of a model 3 performance and put it in this and see what happens (probably nothing since the battery voltage is likely a lot lower

)

khalessi · 10-12-2020 10:53pm

Wonder how much they would be here, probably exhorbitant for the market

the_amazing_raisin · 10-12-2020 11:01pm

khalessi wrote: »

Wonder how much they would be here, probably exhorbitant for the market

Well they won't qualify for any EV grants, but VRT would presumably be very cheap considering it's calculated by engine cc for mopeds and the cc of this is 0

unkel · 10-12-2020 11:12pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I suspect the power and speed are limited due to legal constraints rather than technical ones, the thing is classed as a motor scooter rather than a car

Nope. Twizy is in the same class and has about twice the power and a top speed of about 80km/h

In France (and some other countries) you have two versions of the Twizy though, only the one with the top speed of about 45km/h, like the Ami, can be driven by 14 year olds / people without a driving license

My guess is the Ami is squarely marketed towards this group. Pity really, I would have been interested in one with more power / higher top speed

10-12-2020 11:29pm

unkel wrote: »

Nope. Twizy is in the same class and has about twice the power and a top speed of about 80km/h

In France (and some other countries) you have two versions of the Twizy though, only the one with the top speed of about 45km/h, like the Ami, can be driven by 14 year olds / people without a driving license

My guess is the Ami is squarely marketed towards this group. Pity really, I would have been interested in one with more power / higher top speed

Not a Citroen but perhaps this electric car will interest you although I doubt the solar panels will work optimally here in Ireland, they claim 1 kilowatt will be enough to cover 10 miles or 16 km with a max range of 1000 miles 1609 km. Certainly the design is unique anyway but I guess this is what a car designed for maximum efficiency looks like

https://www.businessinsider.com/aptera-opens-orders-no-charge-solar-powered-electric-vehicle-2020-12?r=US&IR=T

unkel · 10-12-2020 11:55pm

Yes I know about it. Cd is impressive but that yoke is ridiculously expensive for what it is.

11-12-2020 12:06am

26 cent to carshare per minute/12 euro per hour with Free2Move in Paris.
For those who are used to renting citybikes and scooters the learning curve for adoption won't be steep.

In France, Germany and Italy these quadricycles are treated kindly with regard to regulations for motor taxation and driving licences.

ted1 · 11-12-2020 12:42am

unkel wrote: »

Couple of UK reviews out today. The FullyCharged one is pretty crap. Not linking to that. Here's the one from Jonny Smith though. Decent as usual, includes tech specs and the price

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUEKtOGmpVI

About the same price as a electric cargo bike

https://www.greenaer.ie/product-category/electric-bikes/kids-cargo-bikes/

unkel · 11-12-2020 1:22am

Yeah I always thought the prices of those cargo bikes were insane. The electrics in them incl. battery cost just hundreds. Not thousands.

the_amazing_raisin · 11-12-2020 9:42am

unkel wrote: »

Yeah I always thought the prices of those cargo bikes were insane. The electrics in them incl. battery cost just hundreds. Not thousands.

The prices of the non electric ones were pretty insane to begin with as well

11-12-2020 11:01am

Eco-fundamentalists want to ban all cars from Cities.
Quadricycles and microcars like the Japanese Kei cars and Wuling electric cars in China could make the Metropolises of Europe much more pleasant places to be in the future.
Most modern cars are just too big for old European cities.

the_amazing_raisin · 14-12-2020 9:58pm

So if you don't need a license to drive one of these, does that mean you can't get penalty points?

unkel · 14-12-2020 10:59pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

So if you don't need a license to drive one of these, does that mean you can't get penalty points?

Penalty points for what? Doing 35km/h in a 30 zone? :pac:

Joseph SEE · 14-12-2020 11:54pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

So if you don't need a license to drive one of these, does that mean you can't get penalty points?

You're going to need a licence here.

Citroen Ami

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