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My proposal for Dublin taxis & bus lanes

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    #62
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    #OnlyinIreland, except the issue of breaking a red light is contextual and a picture wouldn't present the context.
    How is breaking a red light contextual though?

    Dravokivich wrote: »
    That's a very loose way to interpret it. Would be suggesting rented cars can use'em.
    Do you mean taxis with a passenger in them? Or do you mean a rental car from Hertz or the like?

    Dravokivich wrote: »
    We don't need on street parking in a city. Its a poor use of space and it's good that Dublin City Council have started reclaiming it. It's a shame it took the pandemic and an expectation there'd be less need for on street parking, to be the driver for it.
    100% agreed


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    #63
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Dick Turnip wrote: »
    You keep saying SPSV. Legally a taxi is a Small Public Service Vehicle, grand - that's not in dispute here.

    I'm saying one person switching from their car to a taxi, does nothing for congestion on the streets, which is a major issue in Dublin. I think we can agree on that much?

    Taxis shouldn't have the same privilege as buses, as they do nothing to help the congestion in the city.

    Of course it does, it removes that persons car from the road and releases that persons parking space, if a taxi does 10 such journeys then they've removed 10 cars from the road and alleviated the need for 10 parking spaces. You should be encouraging more people to use taxis as well as LPSVs

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-licensing/other-bus-lpsv-licensing-contacts/
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi/


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    #64
    the boss of me
    Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭the boss of me


    I can't be arsed reading all the posts in this thread but I'm wondering where this idea is coming from ?? I suspect it's coming from cycling lobby I've never heard Dublin Bus or their trades unions having any issues with it.

    I've been driving buses in Dublin for the last 15 years and trust me ... It's not taxis slowing up buses its motorists. We need more enforcement of bus lanes. Illegal parking , cars queuing in bus lanes are a much bigger problem. Plus of course the new traffic light sequences that only allow one or two vehicles through before turning red again.


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    #65
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Carefull now, you'll be straying dangerously close to having cyclists holding up buses next.

    What holds buses up is actually (more often than not) other buses at bus stops.

    Other buses do hold them up yes, but there's nothing we can do about that really.
    Well there is, they should make buses cashless to decrease the time it takes to get passengers on.


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    #66
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Dravokivich wrote: »


    We don't need on street parking in a city. Its a poor use of space and it's good that Dublin City Council have started reclaiming it. It's a shame it took the pandemic and an expectation there'd be less need for on street parking, to be the driver for it.

    You need parking of some kind if people bring their cars into the city, a taxi frees up those spaces whether they are surface or multistory, SPSVs have their place alongside LPSVs, CoVid proved that when buses were forced to limit passenger numbers because of it.


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    #67
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    the boss of me wrote: »
    I can't be arsed reading all the posts in this thread but I'm wondering where this idea is coming from ?? I suspect it's coming from cycling lobby I've never heard Dublin Bus or their trades unions having any issues with it.

    I've been driving buses in Dublin for the last 15 years and trust me ... It's not taxis slowing up buses its motorists. We need more enforcement of bus lanes. Illegal parking , cars queuing in bus lanes are a much bigger problem. Plus of course the new traffic light sequences that only allow one or two vehicles through before turning red again.


    The idea is coming from me being hungover and not particularly arsed working today. Also, the main idea is that this is a discussion board so I thought we were allowed start any topic we wanted :)

    Yeah, like I don't think it's the #1 reason for congestion at all but it popped in to my head so thought I'd post!

    That's interesting to hear from your point of view though. I really think that using bus cameras to penalise cars using the bus lane would be such an easy win. I can't understand why Shane Ross ruled it out before. It's working in NYC.
    https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/08/07/bus-mounted-cameras-have-issued-40000-tix-since-october/


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    #68
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Dick Turnip wrote: »
    How is breaking a red light contextual though?



    Do you mean taxis with a passenger in them? Or do you mean a rental car from Hertz or the like?



    100% agreed

    Breaking a Red Light is not as binary as speeding. For example if you are within a junction and the light goes red, you still hold right of way and everyone else is obligated to allow you through. A picture will not capture when you entered the junction, just that you are present.

    Bigar suggested that the use of a taxi is just renting a private car. It would then be comparable to actually renting a car from someone like Hertz.
    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You need parking of some kind if people bring their cars into the city, a taxi frees up those spaces whether they are surface or multistory, SPSVs have their place alongside LPSVs, CoVid proved that when buses were forced to limit passenger numbers because of it.

    That's why God gave us multi storey car parks.


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    #69
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You need parking of some kind if people bring their cars into the city, a taxi frees up those spaces whether they are surface or multistory, SPSVs have their place alongside LPSVs, CoVid proved that when buses were forced to limit passenger numbers because of it.

    True they help, but they should just be a small tiny part of it. In your scenario you're assuming all these people in taxis would otherwise have drove their own car in, but lots, if not most could have got a bus/train/luas instead.


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    #70
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Breaking a Red Light is not as binary as speeding. For example if you are within a junction and the light goes red, you still hold right of way and everyone else is obligated to allow you through. A picture will not capture when you entered the junction, just that you are present.
    True enough, but the cameras could be used on buses for cars using the bus lane or for cars illegally parked at least.

    Also, for red lights could cameras be positioned so they are just catching cars breaking red lights entering a junction, so as vehicles in a yellow box waiting to turn right aren't caught.


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    #71
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Of course it does, it removes that persons car from the road and releases that persons parking space, if a taxi does 10 such journeys then they've removed 10 cars from the road and alleviated the need for 10 parking spaces. You should be encouraging more people to use taxis as well as LPSVs

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-licensing/other-bus-lpsv-licensing-contacts/
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi/

    But 1 bus removes 50 people doing so. I'm not saying taxis are of no use, of course they are but bus/luas/DART are way more efficient at what your advocating taxis for. And as Dublin streets are so congested, surely we should be pursuing the most efficient ways first.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    "So, have been thinking recently....it's crazy that taxis are allowed use bus lanes when they have no passengers. I'm coming around to the idea that they shouldn't be in them at all to be honest."

    It's not that crazy and an honest-to-god bus driver disagrees with you.

    Taxis are there for convenience. They serve a purpose. Don't you get that?

    Have fun with the hangover, OP. Maybe pick a better topic to argue next time. I'm out:-)


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    #73
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Deleted User wrote: »
    "So, have been thinking recently....it's crazy that taxis are allowed use bus lanes when they have no passengers. I'm coming around to the idea that they shouldn't be in them at all to be honest."

    It's not that crazy and an honest-to-god bus driver disagrees with you.

    Taxis are there for convenience. They serve a purpose. Don't you get that?

    Have fun with the hangover, OP. Maybe pick a better topic to argue next time. I'm out:-)

    Well, plenty of people agreed with it...and regarding the bus driver, they've only just joined the thread so it's not like I was arguing with them all this time? :confused: Anyway, I broadly agreed with what they were saying!


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    #74
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Dick Turnip wrote: »
    But 1 bus removes 50 people doing so. I'm not saying taxis are of no use, of course they are but bus/luas/DART are way more efficient at what your advocating taxis for. And as Dublin streets are so congested, surely we should be pursuing the most efficient ways first.

    Only if you devise a way for the Luas/Bus/Dart whatever to go from A (start) to B(dart/luas etc) to C(Dart/Luas/Bus to D (Destination ), rather than just the B to C

    Example to get from Portrane to Dublin UCD for 9.00

    First suggestion from TFI
    33B/41C/155 starting at 06.19 Duration 1hour 56 mins

    I suppose we could always put more buses on the road to cover all routes


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    #75
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Only if you devise a way for the Luas/Bus/Dart whatever to go from A (start) to B(dart/luas etc) to C(Dart/Luas/Bus to D (Destination ), rather than just the B to C

    Example to get from Portrane to Dublin UCD for 9.00

    First suggestion from TFI
    33B/41C/155 starting at 06.19 Duration 1hour 56 mins

    I suppose we could always put more buses on the road to cover all routes

    Taxi from Portrane to UCD? Jesus... if students can afford a taxi every day their doing well! :)


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    #76
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Only if you devise a way for the Luas/Bus/Dart whatever to go from A (start) to B(dart/luas etc) to C(Dart/Luas/Bus to D (Destination ), rather than just the B to C

    Example to get from Portrane to Dublin UCD for 9.00

    First suggestion from TFI
    33B/41C/155 starting at 06.19 Duration 1hour 56 mins

    I suppose we could always put more buses on the road to cover all routes

    You seem to think I'm saying ban taxis?


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    #77
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    IMO It’s a moot point. No point banning taxis from bus lanes. This morning on my commute there were at least 20 cars In the bus lane on the R139...not one of them was a taxi! As mentioned already, enforcement of existing rules and hefty fines /penalty points for those caught would do wonders.

    I also can’t understand why Dublin Bus aren’t campaigning for stricter enforcement? They don’t seem to care!


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    #78
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Yeah, you're probably right tbf.

    Bus cameras that can record offences and issue fines/points would surely sort out cars illegally using bus lanes pretty quickly.


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    #79
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    I also can’t understand why Dublin Bus aren’t campaigning for stricter enforcement? They don’t seem to care!

    Because Dublin Bus are just an operator. The NTA are in charge of Dublin Bus nowadays.


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    #80
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,361 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Taxis are not private cars they are by definition SPSVs, Small Public Service Vehicles
    so if we legally classified taxis as giraffes, they would by definition be large, long necked herbivores of the african savannah?
    this is not about what the legal definition of a taxi is.

    being a public service vehicle, and being allowed use a bus lane, are two different concepts anyway. i am allowed in the bus lane if i cycle, but my bike is not an SPSV. it's possible to discuss the idea of banning taxis from bus lanes without touching on the definition of SPSV.


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    #81
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Dick Turnip wrote: »
    You seem to think I'm saying ban taxis?

    No I think you are just suggesting that they don't perform the same thing as a bus, where as I say they do the function of a 1-8 passenger bus, do you want 53 seater buses running on all the roads, so that people can always get a bus, maybe quadruple the bus numbers so the waiting time at stops is reduced.

    You think you have solved the cities PT problems but in reality your sore head has no idea of the realities of the world.


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    #82
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Agree 100%! If the Gardai would accept video evidence from bus cameras, that would be a game changer! Once that happens we could then ban taxis from bus lanes! :)


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    #83
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,361 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the boss of me wrote: »
    I've been driving buses in Dublin for the last 15 years and trust me ... It's not taxis slowing up buses its motorists.
    you've never driven down george's street at 11pm so?
    i have walked faster from camden street to dame street late at night faster than buses have moved.


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    #84
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,361 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    they do the function of a 1-8 passenger bus
    a one passenger bus. god help us.
    all cars are buses now.


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    #85
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    GT89 wrote: »
    Because Dublin Bus are just an operator. The NTA are in charge of Dublin Bus nowadays.

    Ah ok... so why don’t the NTA look for enforcement of bus lane rules?


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    #86
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    a one passenger bus. god help us.
    all cars are buses now.

    Well we had double decker buses operating as 17 passenger buses until about 2 weeks ago. So under those guidelines a Hiace minibus should be a 3 passenger bus under 2m social distancing


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    #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    so if we legally classified taxis as giraffes, they would by definition be large, long necked herbivores of the african savannah?
    this is not about what the legal definition of a taxi is.

    being a public service vehicle, and being allowed use a bus lane, are two different concepts anyway. i am allowed in the bus lane if i cycle, but my bike is not an SPSV. it's possible to discuss the idea of banning taxis from bus lanes without touching on the definition of SPSV.

    Are you for real? You're a mod - and you're posting cr*p like this.


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    #88
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    so if we legally classified taxis as giraffes, they would by definition be large, long necked herbivores of the african savannah?
    this is not about what the legal definition of a taxi is.

    being a public service vehicle, and being allowed use a bus lane, are two different concepts anyway. i am allowed in the bus lane if i cycle, but my bike is not an SPSV. it's possible to discuss the idea of banning taxis from bus lanes without touching on the definition of SPSV.

    You managed to park that car at B yet? Just asking as you seem to be avoiding answering it.

    As to this post, this is where we differ, a public service vehicle ( large or small ) is so designated because it services a public need, if that public need is to travel from A2B with the minimum of fuss then why even contemplate banning taxis from bus lanes.


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    #89
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,361 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Are you for real? You're a mod - and you're posting cr*p like this.
    yes, this is 'rhetoric'.


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    #90
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,215 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You managed to park that car at B yet? Just asking as you seem to be avoiding answering it.

    I have! My “A” has a private driveway, my “B” has a private car park. Sometimes I stop at “C” on my way to “B”! “C” has free parking spaces just outside the door.


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    #91
    Dick Turnip
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No I think you are just suggesting that they don't perform the same thing as a bus, where as I say they do the function of a 1-8 passenger bus, do you want 53 seater buses running on all the roads, so that people can always get a bus, maybe quadruple the bus numbers so the waiting time at stops is reduced.

    You think you have solved the cities PT problems but in reality your sore head has no idea of the realities of the world.

    I haven't said once that this would solve the city's PT problems

    I've said a few times now in the thread that there are other ways of helping ease congestion for buses more (proper enforcement, bus cameras), doesn't mean we can't discuss this one either though.

    A taxi does all that you're advocating (covering routes not workable on PT, avoiding parking issues, an option for people who may not be able to use PT) whether they use the bus lane or not though?


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