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My proposal for Dublin taxis & bus lanes

124

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,985 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You managed to park that car at B yet?
    sorry, this is clearly important to you. speaking on a personal basis, the standard examples where i can choose between public transport and a car, i have parking available. *however*, if i didn't, i don't believe this informs the debate on whether taxis should be allowed in bus lanes.
    you are referring again to the definition of a taxi as an SPSV or a PSV. to be clear, i don't think the definition of a vehicle as an SPSV or PSV is sufficient on its own, to allow it to use a bus lane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,891 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    That's why God gave us multi storey car parks.


    So your answer is to build multistory carparks to release the on street parking spaces for redevelopment, an interesting concept, interesting but not thought through, if you make parking even easier isn't that going to encourage more people to bring their cars to the city for the convenience of not having to wait for PT or sitting next to some junkie on the bus. Regardless of how much extra time they spend in traffic? And when the gridlock prevents the buses from turning right or left at a junction, what then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    I haven't said once that this would solve the city's PT problems

    I've said a few times now in the thread that there are other ways of helping ease congestion for buses more (proper enforcement, bus cameras), doesn't mean we can't discuss this one either though.

    A taxi does all that you're advocating (covering routes not workable on PT, avoiding parking issues, an option for people who may not be able to use PT) whether they use the bus lane or not though?
    It’s called “entitlement”! Nobody likes having their “rights” taken away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    So your answer is to build multistory carparks to release the on street parking spaces for redevelopment, an interesting concept, interesting but not thought through, if you make parking even easier isn't that going to encourage more people to bring their cars to the city for the convenience of not having to wait for PT or sitting next to some junkie on the bus. Regardless of how much extra time they spend in traffic? And when the gridlock prevents the buses from turning right or left at a junction, what then?

    Well we both agree that we shouldn't be encouraging people to drive in to town where possible at least.

    I think you ought to make walking, cycling and PT the most convenient option though, not taxis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,891 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    sorry, this is clearly important to you. speaking on a personal basis, the standard examples where i can choose between public transport and a car, i have parking available. *however*, if i didn't, i don't believe this informs the debate on whether taxis should be allowed in bus lanes.
    you are referring again to the definition of a taxi as an SPSV or a PSV. to be clear, i don't think the definition of a vehicle as an SPSV or PSV is sufficient on its own, to allow it to use a bus lane.

    No that part of the thread related to your assumption that people using a taxi doesn't help alleviate congestion.
    I'm saying it does and await your rebuttal with an example of how you using a car and parking it ( even at your designated place at work ) doesn't affect congestion by +1, where as using a taxi for the same journey would result in a congestion figure of -1

    As regards your " HOWEVER " then one would have to assume that if you didn't have your own parking space provided by your workplace then you would be using a public parking space further adding to the congestion.

    As regards the definition of SPSV/LSPV and should they be allowed to use the same road space, if you can figure a way to get DB etc. to quadruple the number of vehicles then I might agree with you but the amount of vacant space in a bus lane without a bus in it for a couple of Km is a colossal waste of the infrastructure which can be used for SPSVs


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,891 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Well we both agree that we shouldn't be encouraging people to drive in to town where possible at least.

    I think you ought to make walking, cycling and PT the most convenient option though, not taxis.

    Jeez how many times Taxis are PT!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,891 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I haven't said once that this would solve the city's PT problems

    I've said a few times now in the thread that there are other ways of helping ease congestion for buses more (proper enforcement, bus cameras), doesn't mean we can't discuss this one either though.

    A taxi does all that you're advocating (covering routes not workable on PT, avoiding parking issues, an option for people who may not be able to use PT) whether they use the bus lane or not though?

    But you'd penalise those whose option is to use a PT taxi by forcing them to sit in the traffic gridlock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Taxis are private cars for hire. It’s time they were reclassified in law as such.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    But you'd penalise those whose option is to use a taxi by forcing them to sit in the traffic gridlock.

    Yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    if that public need is to travel from A2B with the minimum of fuss then why even contemplate banning taxis from bus lanes.

    That's fair enough unless you getting from A2B with the minimum of fuss starts clogging up busy bus routes I guess.

    There is one bus lane I can think of that taxis are banned from, it's the stretch at Camden Court Hotel, driving south from Camden Street towards Rathmines. I'm pretty sure only buses can drive straight ahead, whereas all other vehicles including taxis have to go around the Bleeding Horse and by the Odeon.

    So perhaps, not a blanket ban, but a few more lanes in city centre or busy routes to be made bus only.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,891 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    a one passenger bus. god help us.
    all cars are buses now.

    Not all cars are SPSVs, subtle fundemental difference which you seem unable or unwilling to grasp.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,891 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    That's fair enough unless you getting from A2B with the minimum of fuss starts clogging up busy bus routes I guess.

    There is one bus lane I can think of that taxis are banned from, it's the stretch at Camden Court Hotel, driving south from Camden Street towards Rathmines. I'm pretty sure only buses can drive straight ahead, whereas all other vehicles including taxis have to go around the Bleeding Horse and by the Odeon.

    So perhaps, not a blanket ban, but a few more lanes in city centre or busy routes to be made bus only.

    Taxis are banned from all Contra flow bus lanes, did you not know that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Jeez how many times Taxis are PT!

    Well at least you didn't trot out the SPSV line again :D

    Taxis are the cherry on top of a functioning public transport system/network, they are not the cake or even the icing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Taxis are banned from all Contra flow bus lanes, did you not know that?

    I didn't. I'm not a taxi or bus driver so I just know I can't drive in bus lanes at certain times :)

    I'd noticed that one on Camden St as I thought the taxi driver was bringing me the long way around on purpose :pac:

    So then, there's a precedent there to have bus only lanes in some circumstances so maybe the could extend it a few other places - Camden/Aungier/Georges St and Leeson St. Now from what I can see on those stretches cars/delivery vans blocking are a huge issue aswell - get those bus cameras introduced!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Who knew that the C&T forum would be such an interesting place to argue about the rights and wrongs of taxis and cyclists and maybe buses causing all of our congestion problems because of an OP with a hangover. I salute you, OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    nudain wrote: »
    Who knew that the C&T forum would be such an interesting place to argue about the rights and wrongs of taxis and cyclists and maybe buses causing all of our congestion problems because of an OP with a hangover. I salute you, OP.

    Haha! I really did not expect to get 3 replies never mind 3 pages out of this.

    And there was no mention of cyclists - if taxis has raised this much ire, can you imagine where we'd be at if cyclists were brought in to the mix!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,985 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    As regards your " HOWEVER " then one would have to assume that if you didn't have your own parking space provided by your workplace then you would be using a public parking space further adding to the congestion.
    i don't know how many ways i need to say this.

    bus lanes are built on public infrastructure.
    parking places can be, but often are not, built on public infrastructure.

    i agree with you in some ways, actually. i think use of public roads for parking is a stupidly inefficient use of public roads and i'd argue that parking your car on a public road should incur a fee in the vast majority of contexts.

    but i *still* don't accept that a journey in a taxi which doesn't necessitate the use of a parking spot at the other end automatically should entitle the taxi to use bus lanes.

    otherwise, if you are arguing the converse - are you saying that if i can prove that i am going to park in a private parking spot when i get to my destination, that i *should* be allowed use bus lanes?
    is the argument about taxis using bus lanes constructed entirely on the debate about where to park the car?


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Anyway I only started this thread to suggest taxis switch to a sign along these sort of lines, not to ban altogether! (Although I feel I am becoming radicalised on that)

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    i don't know how many ways i need to say this.

    bus lanes are built on public infrastructure.
    parking places can be, but often are not, built on public infrastructure.

    i agree with you in some ways, actually. i think use of public roads for parking is a stupidly inefficient use of public roads and i'd argue that parking your car on a public road should incur a fee in the vast majority of contexts.

    but i *still* don't accept that a journey in a taxi which doesn't necessitate the use of a parking spot at the other end automatically should entitle the taxi to use bus lanes.

    otherwise, if you are arguing the converse - are you saying that if i can prove that i am going to park in a private parking spot when i get to my destination, that i *should* be allowed use bus lanes?
    is the argument about taxis using bus lanes constructed entirely on the debate about where to park the car?

    Taxis are meant to be on the move. That's the point. Letting them use bus lanes to get where they need to go as fast as possible is the point of getting a taxi. Otherwise...parking places are irrelevant to the discussion about getting from a to b in a taxi.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,985 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    nudain wrote: »
    Taxis are meant to be on the move.
    is that not the point of all transport? otherwise it's not transport.
    that's, uh, the point of transport.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Quote the rest of my post, maybe?


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Breaking a Red Light is not as binary as speeding. For example if you are within a junction and the light goes red, you still hold right of way and everyone else is obligated to allow you through. A picture will not capture when you entered the junction, just that you are present.

    Maybe have a read up on what red light cameras are and how they work?
    Traffic light (or ‘red light’) cameras detect vehicles which pass through lights after they’ve turned red by using sensors or ground loops in the road.

    When traffic lights are on red, the system becomes active and the camera is ready to photograph any car that passes over the trigger.

    It’s an offence for any part of your vehicle to pass the white stop line if a traffic light has turned red.

    The vast majority of red light cameras in the UK are made by Gatsometer.

    These Gatso RLC 36 units also have built-in radar technology, with dual speed and red light functions, so for the sake of safety and the law, avoid the temptation to put your foot down when they start to change.

    All you do is have an offset time between the red and the "arm" time. If the light is red and not just red you should be stopping, especially as theyre typically used in the CC where you won't be doing 80kph.


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Interesting. I don't if it's gotten worse in the last year or so, or am I only noticing it recently, but the amount of drivers that break red lights in Dublin is crazy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    And what do you do with your car at A and especially B?
    Spook_ie wrote: »

    And the bit you didn't answer, what do you do with your car when you get to B?

    Most people park, either in on-street parking or a private parking space. Whereas taxis drive around slowly with no passengers in them, getting ready to stop suddenly if there is a fare nearby. Or pull up at a taxi rank. If the taxi rank is full, no bother; they queue up in a nearby cycle lane (as happens at Parnell St, or in Raheny on the northside, where the illegal taxi rank is at least twice the length of the legal one).

    A taxi should not be allowed to use bus lanes, the same way that I can't use a bus lane if I am driving a friend somewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,563 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Does anyone actually think we'll get taxis out of bus lanes any time soon? I can't see it happening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Keep cyclists out of the bus lane, problem solved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,563 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    begbysback wrote: »
    Keep cyclists out of the bus lane, problem solved.

    elaborate please


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    begbysback wrote: »
    Keep cyclists out of the bus lane, problem solved.

    Are you advocating for more separated cycle lanes around the city?


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Dick Turnip


    Does anyone actually think we'll get taxis out of bus lanes any time soon? I can't see it happening.

    No, can't see it happening to be honest!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,563 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    At worst cyclists mean buses have to drive a bit slower from time to time, but they don't hold them up at all. Plus they usually just overtake you with millimetres to spare when they get a chance which can be pretty terrifying for someone on a bike.


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