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Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

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    #5492
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,867 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    EU have moved , and still the UK won't agree. They truly believe that a deal that the EU compromise on is the EU winning. You can't deal with people wit that mindset .


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    #5493
    Rrrrrr2
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Rrrrrr2


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    EU have moved , and still the UK won't agree. They truly believe that a deal that the EU compromise on is the EU winning. You can't deal with people wit that mindset .

    Absolutely- it would be something else next week- time to cut losses and move on


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    #5494
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Nate--IRL-- wrote: »
    I'm getting a feeling where the next brexit battlefield will be. The contingency plans will be deemed unacceptable by the true believers, and fought vociferously against. I see lots of comments in media that they are the level playing field by the back door. It is the last thing they can cling onto to stay playing the victim.

    Madness.

    Nate

    no battle there - if it gets to the contingency plans its everyman for themselves. EU are entitled to do as they wish IRO UK - they are a 3d party


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    #5495
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,275 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    What the heck were all the negotiations for over the last few years, if nothing is achieved even in compromise in the end? I don't get it.
    UK bought their own stories that EU would simply roll over to the pluck Brexiteers rolling in to Brussels to tell EU how the deal will be done. When reality started to show it's true colors that only meant that the negotiator was not trying hard enough, were a push over and a closet remainer because they knew EU would roll over, just wait and see. And when the next negotiator did not get it was simply because EU did all their deals last minute, just wait and they would give in because they knew that was how EU worked. And here we are today as it's slowly starting to dawn on the brexiteers that in fact their belief of reality as told by the UK newspapers does not match reality. The self awareness is coming very slowly and you can see how few, if any, brexiteers now want to "claim the victory" of brexit and all it's laurels and instead started about whatabboutery instead. Things will be fine "later", oh it's not a no deal it's a Australian deal, oh it's EU being so intrinsic it's really all their fault that things goes bad. Of course all of that ignores that if UK is sovereign how comes it's EU's fault? As UK is a sovereign nation is it not up to the sovereign UK parliament and PM to give a prosperous future since they can write all the laws after all?


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    #5496
    Nate--IRL--
    Registered Users Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    no battle there - if it gets to the contingency plans its everyman for themselves. EU are entitled to do as they wish IRO UK - they are a 3d party

    Oh that's understood, I should have been clearer, I was talking about internally in the UK, the battle to reciprocate or not to the EU contingency plans.

    All very myopic of course, as the good ship UK will have already been irreparably holed beneath the water line.

    Nate


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    #5497
    ElJeffe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ElJeffe


    Rrrrrr2 wrote: »
    Absolutely- it would be something else next week- time to cut losses and move on

    Glad people at long last seem to be realising this now. You are correct of course. We need to accept No Deal and move forward. It's going to be a long hard road but we've faced worse as a nation. Hopefully the EU can do their upmost to help us and negate the worst of the destruction to our economy.


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    #5498
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Rrrrrr2 wrote: »
    The photo opp in Belgium last night was terrible too- he looked subservient and clueless

    I don't think it looked that bad. Depending on what side of the fence can colour your view.


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    #5499
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    maebee wrote: »
    He looked, and is, way out of his depth.

    The dog who caught the car is now trying to figure out the controls while it hurtles towards a cliff-edge.


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    #5500
    ElJeffe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ElJeffe


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I don't think it looked that bad. Depending on what side of the fence can colour your view.

    People will see things differently when they are angry or upset. It's understandable.


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    #5501
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Nody wrote: »
    UK bought their own stories that EU would simply roll over to the pluck Brexiteers rolling in to Brussels to tell EU how the deal will be done. When reality started to show it's true colors that only meant that the negotiator was not trying hard enough, were a push over and a closet remainer because they knew EU would roll over, just wait and see./QUOTE]

    Am getting the exceptionalism and hubris from UK. But it went on for four years just the same.

    Can't get why they didn't just pull up the drawbridge ages ago.


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    #5502
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,172 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I don't think it looked that bad. Depending on what side of the fence can colour your view.

    Johnson and Frost looked a state. Johnson always does but there was a lack of sharpness and cut to their wear.

    That's applicable no matter what side of the fence you're looking at them from


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    #5503
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    ElJeffe wrote: »
    People will see things differently when they are angry or upset. It's understandable.

    Indeed, but it shouldn't let us accept false narratives and opinion as fact. Here and on Irish twitter there has been a twisting and spinning of a line that Johnson was cowed and humiliated by UVDL. It was nothing of the sort. At most you could call it an awkward encounter.

    And just so you know I despise Johnson and his English nationalist tories


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    #5504
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,336 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    https://twitter.com/timothy_stanley/status/1337124495518265344

    It pains me to think what world these people live in.


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    #5505
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,275 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Can't get why they didn't just pull up the drawbridge ages ago.
    Because they want a deal; both sides want a deal to be clear because both sides realize that a deal benefits their side. The problem is to agree what said deal will look like however and that's what it's been about since day 1. UK thinking they could pull a quick one over EU basically deal but the part they can't swallow the cost for getting a deal and basically trying to come up with a scheme to get around the pesky EU requirements to get that deal after all. That's why the negotiations are still going on, both sides hoping that for what ever reason the other side will suddenly, "aah well, let's do a deal on those terms then".


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    #5506
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Nody wrote: »
    Because they want a deal; both sides want a deal to be clear because both sides realize that a deal benefits their side. The problem is to agree what said deal will look like however and that's what it's been about since day 1. UK thinking they could pull a quick one over EU basically deal but the part they can't swallow the cost for getting a deal and basically trying to come up with a scheme to get around the pesky EU requirements to get that deal after all. That's why the negotiations are still going on, both sides hoping that for what ever reason the other side will suddenly, "aah well, let's do a deal on those terms then".

    OK, I'm a bit weary of this now.

    Reminds me of the all nighters the Unions here would pull to get a deal, while dining on goodies in the meeting rooms, playing a media game.


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    #5507
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,336 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1337093496407285761


    Again, I simply can not get over this. It is December 2020 and she says this today on TV...


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    #5508
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Oh god, John Redwood is on LBC now... will I last more than 30 seconds listening to his rubbish.


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    #5509
    Rrrrrr2
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Rrrrrr2


    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Glad people at long last seem to be realising this now. You are correct of course. We need to accept No Deal and move forward. It's going to be a long hard road but we've faced worse as a nation. Hopefully the EU can do their upmost to help us and negate the worst of the destruction to our economy.

    Our economy is genuinely open, we’ve done a lot of preparation for it the past 4 years as we have deep historical experience of “what they are like”. There are lots of opportunities and demand for our goods elsewhere- our dairy products for example are top notch, we have a robust pharma and IT sector.
    It’s definitely not the end of the world- even if no deal there’ll be emergency deals come Jan 01 onwards to unlock major issues.


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    #5510
    Gerry T
    Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    Obviously the meeting yesterday was a damp squib and no progress. With the EU signalling (for the first time mind you) that this Sun is the end of talks it seems to me Johnson would see the EU telling the UK that talks are over is a defeat for the UK. I expect Johnson to make a final call on it before then


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    #5511
    ElJeffe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ElJeffe


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Indeed, but it shouldn't let us accept false narratives and opinion as fact. Here and on Irish twitter there has been a twisting and spinning of a line that Johnson was cowed and humiliated by UVDL. It was nothing of the sort. At most you could call it an awkward encounter.

    And just so you know I despise Johnson and his English nationalist tories

    Fair point.


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    #5512
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Gerry T wrote: »
    Obviously the meeting yesterday was a damp squib and no progress. With the EU signalling (for the first time mind you) that this Sun is the end of talks it seems to me Johnson would see the EU telling the UK that talks are over is a defeat for the UK. I expect Johnson to make a final call on it before then
    If it happens at any time, tomorrow at 5pm, after markets close would seem the most likely.

    Announcements that tends to move markets gets released on Friday evenings to give traders time to absorb the news and act rationally.


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    #5513
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Shelga wrote: »
    Oh god, John Redwood is on LBC now... will I last more than 30 seconds listening to his rubbish.

    Just heard him, and the disinformation was so absurd really. But playing to his gallery who will never doubt him just the same.


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    #5514
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users Posts: 45,558 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Rrrrrr2 wrote: »
    Our economy is genuinely open, we’ve done a lot of preparation for it the past 4 years as we have deep historical experience of “what they are like”. There are lots of opportunities and demand for our goods elsewhere- our dairy products for example are top notch, we have a robust pharma and IT sector.
    It’s definitely not the end of the world- even if no deal there’ll be emergency deals come Jan 01 onwards to unlock major issues.

    Won't be the end of the world but it's going to be a big hit, especially with Covid. This article from RTE makes for a sobering read:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1210/1183700-brexit-no-deal-ireland/


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    #5515
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,540 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Consider what the vulture capitalists and tax-dodging billionaires must have riding on this - millions if not billions riding on the hardest possible Brexit, no deal preferred. Those bets must be pretty well locked in by now. The kind of people who are prepared to risk huge sums (and who don't care about the collateral damage) will find ways to bribe and/or threaten the likes of Johnson to do what is required to maximise their returns, no backsliding will be permitted.


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    #5516
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Gintonious wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1337123694326460416

    As we will probably hear more about this Australia style deal, good to clarify
    it.
    Let's clarify part of it.

    The EU has lots of deals and dealings with other countries that are better than the WTO terms the UK is heading for.


    There is a Sierra Leone deal     and the EU is giving lots of aid.



    Now do you mean Guam, a territory of the US ?
    The same US that bitch slapped the UK when it started mouthing about the WTO dispute, that massively affects Scotland because of the Whisky thing ?

    No, it can't be Guam because Guam can't do trade deals because it's a US territory so it must be GUAM.

    It will be left to the reader as an exercise whether those countries have a better trade deal with the EU than the UK would on WTO terms.


    Another thing : the GUAM countries, Libya, Sierra Leone and even Narnia all have had civil and or border wars. It's a ridiculously low bar for the UK to fail to meet.


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    #5517
    ElJeffe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ElJeffe


    Nody wrote: »
    Because they want a deal; both sides want a deal to be clear because both sides realize that a deal benefits their side. The problem is to agree what said deal will look like however and that's what it's been about since day 1. UK thinking they could pull a quick one over EU basically deal but the part they can't swallow the cost for getting a deal and basically trying to come up with a scheme to get around the pesky EU requirements to get that deal after all. That's why the negotiations are still going on, both sides hoping that for what ever reason the other side will suddenly, "aah well, let's do a deal on those terms then".

    Hope you are correct but i fear that is a very naive outlook. I think it's been Boris's plan all along to leave with no deal despite all he's said i think they want complete and utter control come what may.


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    #5518
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,293 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Won't be the end of the world but it's going to be a big hit, especially with Covid. This article from RTE makes for a sobering read:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1210/1183700-brexit-no-deal-ireland/

    Very good read but one of the stats is slightly confusing :

    The Irish Fiscal Advisory Council estimates Irish GDP could be 6% lower over the longer-term, equivalent to €21 billion.

    I'm assuming that's over a ten year period or something, definitely not the 2021 figure.


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    #5519
    MPFGLB
    Registered Users Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    So that is it...no deal

    Boris Johnson and cronies thought they could have it anyway they chose

    No matter what country the UK makes a deal with they have to compromise ...the word deal itself means a type of compromise

    Johnson did want a deal but didn't want to compromise.His arrogance thought he could breeze in,charm a few people ,tell a few porkies ...and get what he wanted ...afterall its worked for him till now


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    #5520
    AutoTuning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭AutoTuning


    It's really not looking great and will be a total mess for Northern Ireland by the looks of it.

    It's possible the NI protocol might end up being imposed on them by Biden in lieu of a US deal, rather than having been voluntarily done as part of a EU deal.


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    #5521
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    If there is a no deal situation come Jan 1st as is looking likely now, surely that doesn't mean no future deals will be possible. Maybe both will let the no deal scenario play out for a few months, maybe emergency rules, but then just return as two separate entities looking to negotiate a trade deal. I know it will still be complicated but eventually a trade deal between EU and UK will exist.

    Is that a possibility at this stage?


This discussion has been closed.
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