Schools closed until February? (part 3)

blanch152 · 10-12-2020 05:37PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

That is inaccurate. Not all of them are rostered every day, and in the lead up to Christmas Day. However, all teachers must work all the days school is open. Teacher's may have two weeks off, but it's only the one day, Christmas Day, which matters most here. Very disingenuous post, Blanch.

Do all those groups work less than five days a week?

Last I checked most of those groups spent more time in a working environment than teachers who have the ability to do preparation work safely at home. The exposure of secondary school teachers to pupils is around 30 hours a week, while all of the above would have close to 40 hours a week exposure to risk.

As I said, none of them get two weeks off at Christmas, and an awful lot of them will be working on Christmas Day while teachers spend it with family.

blanch152 · 10-12-2020 05:38PM

JimmyVik wrote: »

Its not about the teachers getting holidays.
Why cant people get past that.
It has been explained on this thread by numerous people that its a chance to limit close circulation early for long term gains.
Move the holidays to before Christmas. Just move them, not add to them.

You could keep some of the teachers in work during the holidays to mind the kids of healthcare workers or people who cannot cope, if the holidays are brought forward. Maybe that might let people see past the "teachers are getting time off" blinkers.

You would have to mix classes then, exponentially increasing the risk. Not a good idea.

wirelessdude01 · 10-12-2020 05:44PM

See a school in Portlaoise was told by the HSE that the best thing for all concerned was to shut now until after Christmas.

Boggles · 10-12-2020 05:45PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

See a school in Portlaoise was told by the HSE that the best thing for all concerned was to shut now until after Christmas.

Did the plumbing go?

HerrKuehn · 10-12-2020 05:47PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

See a school in Portlaoise was told by the HSE that the best thing for all concerned was to shut now until after Christmas.

might be a good idea for it to close, but not sure what relevance it has for other schools.

wirelessdude01 · 10-12-2020 05:48PM

Boggles wrote: »

Did the plumbing go?

Maybe they got a call from Merkel ðŸ˜‚

Lillyfae · 10-12-2020 05:48PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Changed plans happen all the time. Including for sickness. What do parents do when the HSE rings them up and says you/your kid is a close contact, you must self isolate and for whatever period is required while testing is carried out?

Are you suggesting that this is on a par? Are you suggesting that potentially 50+ people should take unpaid leave for a day or 2 so you can have plans at Christmas?

wirelessdude01 · 10-12-2020 05:49PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

might be a good idea for it to close, but not sure what relevance it has for other schools.

Sure we might as well close the thread so.

HerrKuehn · 10-12-2020 05:54PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Sure we might as well close the thread so.

then you wouldn't have anything to do

hesaidshesaid · 10-12-2020 05:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That is absolutely standard in contact tracing in any setting - they are not primary contacts. The kids in the class with the index case will have been tested by the time the siblings would have become infectious if they contacted it in school.

That is not necessarily true if the 'index case' is not the actual index case. Considering that the vast majority of children are asymptomatic, it is very difficult to ascertain who the index case is. It could be another child in the class, ot could be a family member of the 'index case' identified. It would be useful to know how many kids, if any, test positive from this class. As far as I know (because we are not allowed to talk about it or ask any questions in school - Public Health / DES directive) we won't know the kids' results unless the parents choose to tell us. Does anyone know more about this?

the kelt · 10-12-2020 05:59PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

See a school in Portlaoise was told by the HSE that the best thing for all concerned was to shut now until after Christmas.

OMG there will be riots! How will the parents in that school survive?

Ours closed last Monday also. ESB gave notice on the friday before that power would be cut to the village so school had to close.

A few days notice for parents, and low and behold would you believe people managed!

World didnt fall apart, people had to rearrange things at short notice and everyone is alright.

According to some on here its something akin to a military excercise for a full scale invasion if they have to mind their own kids for a couple of days without months and months notice.

I do wonder how people manage really, it seems to be a mix of resentment towards teachers and having to rearrange a few things that might put them out that fuels the obsession not to have a couple of extra days off that might help with Virus numbers etc over Christmas.

pwurple · 10-12-2020 05:59PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Oh really. What do those children do for the the two weeks school is out, and every other break and summer holidays. Give over.

Those are scheduled expected breaks, planned for, leave rostered in months in advance.

Drop of the hat changes feck people over completely. That's when the kids end up going from neighbour to neighbour to granny to childminder to be minded. That's why it's riskier for some to keep them out, than send them in. School's aren't childminders, but the days are planned and schedules are set around them.

Give over? How about you come down out of your ivory tower there and into someone else's shoes for 5 seconds...

Stateofyou · 10-12-2020 05:59PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Probably struggle through as best they can, there have been a lot of situations like that this year. We don't really need to add any unnecessary ones.

I hear that point, I do. But I have thought about whether we can and should consider this in light of people needing/wanting to have a somewhat decent Christmas that is safer for one, and for 2, to try avoid a level 5 shutdown in January which is being predicted and will have disastrous consequences for a lot of people. I wouldn't say it's unnecessary.

Stateofyou · 10-12-2020 06:03PM

pwurple wrote: »

Those are scheduled expected breaks, planned for, leave rostered in months in advance.

Drop of the hat changes feck people over completely. That's when the kids end up going from neighbour to neighbour to granny to childminder to be minded. That's why it's riskier for some to keep them out, than send them in. School's aren't childminders, but the days are planned and schedules are set around them.

Give over? How about you come down out of your ivory tower there and into someone else's shoes for 5 seconds...

Calm down. I'm not in any ivory tower. I am a working parent of 3 in a two parent working household. I know what's it's like to struggle finding childcare in a pinch just as well as any other.

You know what else fecks people over completely? Level 5 restrictions and having people's livelihoods pulled out from under them again. Or having ill (or worse) family members or even being deemed someones close contact the more this spreads, meaning you have to self isolate days potentially weeks anyway.
Next time you may try and make reasonable points without resorting to insults.

HerrKuehn · 10-12-2020 06:04PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

I hear that point, I do. But I have thought about whether we can and should consider this in light of people needing/wanting to have a somewhat decent Christmas that is safer for one, and for 2, to try avoid a level 5 shutdown in January which is being predicted and will have disastrous consequences for a lot of people. I wouldn't say it's unnecessary.

You may also remember that we were having the exact same conversation about the midterm break, extending by an extra week would have a large benefit etc. We didn't extend and it was all fine. There is talk from ASTI about extending the break in January if cases increase (they will obviously). There will be talk about easter as well etc etc. It makes no difference to me by the way, I will be off the week before Christmas so I don't mind if the kids are off.

Stateofyou · 10-12-2020 06:06PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Are you suggesting that this is on a par? Are you suggesting that potentially 50+ people should take unpaid leave for a day or 2 so you can have plans at Christmas?

It's almost like you're deliberately missing the points I've made about the spread of covid most likely causing a level 5 restriction level in Jan, and allowing people to be able to visit their families over Christmas with a longer break between school and Christmas. :rolleyes:

Stateofyou · 10-12-2020 06:10PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

You may also remember that we were having the exact same conversation about the midterm break, extending by an extra week would have a large benefit etc. We didn't extend and it was all fine. There is talk from ASTI about extending the break in January if cases increase (they will obviously). There will be talk about easter as well etc etc. It makes no difference to me by the way, I will be off the week before Christmas so I don't mind if the kids are off.

It wasn't the exact same, no. This is Christmas time where people traditionally go out visiting and shopping and eating and spending time with friends and family. Not on any comparable scale were people planning to go spend a day with family-some of who would be higher risk-during the midterm break. Nor were they doing the level of movement that you would see at this time of year.

Blondini · 10-12-2020 06:24PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Can't believe this debate is still going on 3 months after schools have opened here.

99% of people happy to get on with life and kids get an education.

Teachers are happy.

Yet we still have the usual curtain twitchers going on about schools.

The fear is unbelievable.

Bolt yourselves into your house for your own sake.

Not at all JJ.

This is a great thread with good robust discussion from great posters on both sides of the debate!

Keep that "curtain twitching" type awful nomenclature for the restrictions thread please.

meeeeh · 10-12-2020 06:25PM

the kelt wrote: »

OMG there will be riots! How will the parents in that school survive?

Ours closed last Monday also. ESB gave notice on the friday before that power would be cut to the village so school had to close.

A few days notice for parents, and low and behold would you believe people managed!

World didnt fall apart, people had to rearrange things at short notice and everyone is alright.

According to some on here its something akin to a military excercise for a full scale invasion if they have to mind their own kids for a couple of days without months and months notice.

I do wonder how people manage really, it seems to be a mix of resentment towards teachers and having to rearrange a few things that might put them out that fuels the obsession not to have a couple of extra days off that might help with Virus numbers etc over Christmas.

I hear to break it to you but service industry, health care and so on don't depend on one person staying at home. If everyone has to stay at home at the same time it is completely different than when one person is staying at home. Some of us are accused we don't have a clue what is going on in schools. In your case it is clear you don't have a clue how businesses have to plan and operate. If they are expected to provide services to people before Christmas then they need people to do the work in those services.

Jinglejangle69 · 10-12-2020 06:28PM

Blondini wrote: »

Not at all JJ.

This is a great thread with good robust discussion from great posters on both sides of the debate!

Keep that "curtain twitching" type awful nomenclature for the restrictions thread please.

Sorry Blondini.

I popped in here for a look after months away and lo and behold.

The same argument and narrative been re hashed over and over.

All while the schools are approaching 3.5 months open.

Thank god the vast majority are getting on with life.

HerrKuehn · 10-12-2020 06:33PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

It wasn't the exact same, no. This is Christmas time where people traditionally go out visiting and shopping and eating and spending time with friends and family. Not on any comparable scale were people planning to go spend a day with family-some of who would be higher risk-during the midterm break. Nor were they doing the level of movement that you would see at this time of year.

I think everyone needs to realise it isn't a normal christmas this year. If you have higher risk family, it would be best to wait until you have been off for a week to 10 days before seeing them. It is the same situation for everyone.

Stateofyou · 10-12-2020 06:41PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Sorry Blondini.

I popped in here for a look after months away and lo and behold.

The same argument and narrative been re hashed over and over.

All while the schools are approaching 3.5 months open.

Thank god the vast majority are getting on with life.

And lo and behold you're still stuck on the same track. I've never seen you get stuck in to conversation or debate here. You seem to just pop in every great once in a while regurgitating the same lines. I don't know why you bother.

Stateofyou · 10-12-2020 08:05PM

News from the UK government- rapid lateral flow tests to be introduced which give a result within half an hour in secondary schools in the seven boroughs with the highest infections rates in the hope to lower rates of infection and to prevent London going in tier 3 lockdown.

selectamatic · 10-12-2020 08:06PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

If it was really wanted, then it could have been taken into consideration when planning the school year- days can be moved around here and there. If it was already in the planning in September noone would have had any issues with it.

JDD wrote: »

If teachers want schools to close early before Christmas Day, so that they can restrict their movements on the run up to Christmas Day, well that's a different story. If enough teachers in the school wanted that, they could have put pressure on their Principal to close the school on the 18th, and make up the days on the other side of the Christmas holiday or at Easter. It would have been open for each Principal to do that, if the teachers had approached the Principal on time - like at least two months ago. It's a bit late now looking for extra days to self isolate with two weeks to go and a load of parents that would have to make emergency childcare arrangements.

I also suspect that their union would not have liked them to do this, as they were trying to negotiate extra holidays where the time would not have had to be made up at the end of the school holidays or at Easter. It's too late now to try and change that unfortunately.

It has been outlined on this very thread that this interpretation of "unforseen school closures" is wrong. And to you in particular Lillyfae.

This circular is in relation to things such as snow days, no electricity, no running water, flooded schools etc.

It is not for use in rearranging department set school holidays.

It has been made pertinently clear over the last few months that the dept will not tolerate individual principals making public health decisions even if there is a live outbreak in their school.

So they're hardly going to say shur belt ahead and close there if ye want to on health grounds just make the days up whenever ye can.

10-12-2020 08:22PM

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

That is not necessarily true if the 'index case' is not the actual index case. Considering that the vast majority of children are asymptomatic, it is very difficult to ascertain who the index case is. It could be another child in the class, ot could be a family member of the 'index case' identified. It would be useful to know how many kids, if any, test positive from this class. As far as I know (because we are not allowed to talk about it or ask any questions in school - Public Health / DES directive) we won't know the kids' results unless the parents choose to tell us. Does anyone know more about this?

It’s a myth that children are a symptomatic more often than adults. Just have milder symptoms

Boggles · 10-12-2020 08:50PM

Jaysus even Sweden has buckled.

Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven announced Thursday that high schools would switch to distance learning beginning Monday through early January to slow the rate of COVID-19 infections in the country

pwurple · 10-12-2020 09:24PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Calm down. I'm not in any ivory tower. I am a working parent of 3 in a two parent working household. I know what's it's like to struggle finding childcare in a pinch just as well as any other.

You know what else fecks people over completely? Level 5 restrictions and having people's livelihoods pulled out from under them again. Or having ill (or worse) family members or even being deemed someones close contact the more this spreads, meaning you have to self isolate days potentially weeks anyway.
Next time you may try and make reasonable points without resorting to insults.

State of you is right. Between telling me to Calm Down and Give over, apparantly I'm the insulting one... :rolleyes:

Sounds like you agree with me though here. Keep the risk down by everyone staying in their routine. Schools remain open as planned, work remains going as planned, everyone keep to their normal contacts and circle. We're all golden.

Job done, nice talking.

wirelessdude01 · 10-12-2020 09:34PM

Was it raind that mentioned earlier that their employer was paying for PCR tests for all their employees?

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/private-covid-tests-may-not-detect-virus-and-shouldnt-be-treated-as-a-christmas-quick-fix-hse-chief-warns-39849434.html

Jinglejangle69 · 10-12-2020 09:56PM

Boggles wrote: »

Jaysus even Sweden has buckled.

What's their numbers compared to ours?

Stateofyou · 10-12-2020 09:59PM

pwurple wrote: »

State of you is right.

Ah you're too kind

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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