My proposal for Dublin taxis & bus lanes

Dick Turnip · 10-12-2020 2:08pm #1

So, have been thinking recently....it's crazy that taxis are allowed use bus lanes when they have no passengers. I'm coming around to the idea that they shouldn't be in them at all to be honest.

Obviously hard to police only allowing use of the lane if carrying a fare as it is, so you would need to change the taxi plates/light on the the roof. Change the plate so that instead of being yellow/blue as it is now, it would be bright red or green depending on whether available or not.

If the taxi is free, the plate is lit green, and shouldn't be in the bus lane. If the taxi has a fare, the taxi sign is lit red, and the taxi can use the bus lane.

Thoughts? Do you think the plate/light system could do with an upgrade? And do you think that use of the bus lanes by taxis should be curtailed or even banned?

Effects · 10-12-2020 2:10pm

Dick Turnip wrote: »

So, have been thinking recently....it's crazy that taxis are allowed use bus lanes when they have no passengers.

I didn't think they were?

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Change the plate so that instead of being yellow/blue as it is now, it would be bright red or green depending on whether available or not.

Majority of taxi drivers can't even figure out how to turn their light off when they have a fare. And now you want to complicate it even further.

Dick Turnip wrote: »

I'm coming around to the idea that they shouldn't be in them at all to be honest.

So instead of me taking a 20 minute taxi journey into town, at the cost of €18, you want my taxi journey to take over an hour and cost me about €60.
People would just drive their cars more and traffic would get worse.

cgcsb · 10-12-2020 2:12pm

If it were me, I'd just ban taxis from bus lanes between the hours of 7 and 7. The NTA are supposedly bringing in camera based enfocement for bus lanes anyway so that could be used to manage taxis also. With the roll out of 24hr buses the taxi industry looks like it's way to a greatly reduced business model. The bulk of taxi journeys are taken after midnight (pre covid).

Dick Turnip · 10-12-2020 2:42pm

Effects wrote: »

I didn't think they were?

Actually, you are correct but they all use the bus lanes at all times regardless of whether they have a fare or not.

Majority of taxi drivers can't even figure out how to turn their light off when they have a fare. And now you want to complicate it even further.

That really isn't reason enough not to introduce something, never mind this. Also, it's not a complication. It makes it easier to spot whether a taxi is in use or not. For the driver it's the same difference of flicking a switch surely? Basically a taxi would only be in the bus lane if their plate was lit red. The driver could put on the red light to use it, but they would be less likely to pick up a fare off the street then.

So instead of me taking a 20 minute taxi journey into town, at the cost of €18, you want my taxi journey to take over an hour and cost me about €60.
People would just drive their cars more and traffic would get worse.

Well, my suggestion was that the taxi could use the bus lane with a fare, so your 20 minute journey would be the same?

As to your second point here, the other option would be for you to get the bus/luas/dart? I want a functioning public transport system. A taxi takes up the same space as a private car. Taxis are great and convenient and all that, but I don't know why they are put on a similar standing as buses when they should be the same as any other car really. So what if you paid €18 for the privilege, the city is clogged because too many people drive instead of using public transport.

Dick Turnip · 10-12-2020 2:43pm

cgcsb wrote: »

If it were me, I'd just ban taxis from bus lanes between the hours of 7 and 7. The NTA are supposedly bringing in camera based enfocement for bus lanes anyway so that could be used to manage taxis also. With the roll out of 24hr buses the taxi industry looks like it's way to a greatly reduced business model. The bulk of taxi journeys are taken after midnight (pre covid).

That's actually probably the best suggestion in fairness. Taxis are great for nights out, but they should not be impeding public transport during commuting hours.

loyatemu · 10-12-2020 2:45pm

cgcsb wrote: »

If it were me, I'd just ban taxis from bus lanes between the hours of 7 and 7. The NTA are supposedly bringing in camera based enfocement for bus lanes anyway so that could be used to manage taxis also. With the roll out of 24hr buses the taxi industry looks like it's way to a greatly reduced business model. The bulk of taxi journeys are taken after midnight (pre covid).

ban them altogether - either a road is congested, in which case the buslane should be reserved for buses; or it's not congested in which case the taxis don't need to use the bus lane. They're not public transport, and when they're driving around with no passengers they're literally transporting no-one while taking up road space so are worse than private cars.

ED E · 10-12-2020 2:51pm

Lets be honest, the whole debate is moot when bus lanes mean diddly squat in Ireland.

Dick Turnip · 10-12-2020 2:59pm

ED E wrote: »

Lets be honest, the whole debate is moot when bus lanes mean diddly squat in Ireland.

Bus cameras should be used to enforce this. They do it in New York.

https://www.masstransitmag.com/bus/vehicles/press-release/21149377/mta-new-york-city-transit-mta-nycdot-announce-expansion-of-bus-lane-camera-enforcement

con747 · 10-12-2020 3:00pm

Dick Turnip wrote: »

That's actually probably the best suggestion in fairness. Taxis are great for nights out, but they should not be impeding public transport during commuting hours.

Try getting to a hospital or another such important appointment in a wheelchair or other disabilities that can't use public transport as has been pointed out numerous times in the news about buses passing people in wheelchairs by.

ED E · 10-12-2020 3:01pm

Yeah except the NTA, Gardai and Dept of Justice are still scrapping about it.

We have red light cameras, they're turned off. #OnlyInIreland

boombang · 10-12-2020 3:08pm

ED E wrote: »

Yeah except the NTA, Gardai and Dept of Justice are still scrapping about it.

We have red light cameras, they're turned off. #OnlyInIreland

The main issue for any rules is going to be enforcement. We're woeful at enforcement at pretty much anything in Ireland. I'd legislate to allow private companies do the enforcement. If you don't pay the fine, then private clampers can seize the vehicle take ownership. It would be brutal and unpopular, but very effective.

ED E · 10-12-2020 3:11pm

boombang wrote: »

The main issue for any rules is going to be enforcement. We're woeful at enforcement at pretty much anything in Ireland. I'd legislate to allow private companies do the enforcement. If you don't pay the fine, then private clampers can seize the vehicle take ownership. It would be brutal and unpopular, but very effective.

Dublin pays DSPS millions for enforcement and they do diddly squat. Private sector could do it if the contract managers in the civil service weren't so incompetent.

Dick Turnip · 10-12-2020 3:11pm

loyatemu wrote: »

ban them altogether - either a road is congested, in which case the buslane should be reserved for buses; or it's not congested in which case the taxis don't need to use the bus lane. They're not public transport, and when they're driving around with no passengers they're literally transporting no-one while taking up road space so are worse than private cars.

Yeah, people need to stop equating taxis with buses as another form of public transport option. They are in reality a private car hire

Effects · 10-12-2020 3:11pm

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Also, it's not a complication. It makes it easier to spot whether a taxi is in use or not. For the driver it's the same difference of flicking a switch surely?

Yeah, it's flicking a switch, which most of them can't even manage at the moment anyway. Changing the colour of the lights won't make much difference.

Well, my suggestion was that the taxi could use the bus lane with a fare, so your 20 minute journey would be the same?

I quoted you directly where you said:

I'm coming around to the idea that they shouldn't be in them at all to be honest.

So then my 20 minute journey wouldn't be the same within the parameters you had set out.

Dick Turnip · 10-12-2020 3:13pm

con747 wrote: »

Try getting to a hospital or another such important appointment in a wheelchair or other disabilities that can't use public transport as has been pointed out numerous times in the news about buses passing people in wheelchairs by.

They could still get taxis, but might have to allow for more time?

Effects · 10-12-2020 3:14pm

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Yeah, people need to stop equating taxis with buses as another form of public transport option. They are in reality a private car hire

But it's multiple people hiring that car over the course of a day. Rather than multiple people deciding to drive multiple cars instead, taking up space on the road, and then parking.

Effects · 10-12-2020 3:17pm

ED E wrote: »

We have red light cameras, they're turned off. #OnlyInIreland

Have you got a source for that?

10-12-2020 3:28pm

Effects wrote: »

But it's multiple people hiring that car over the course of a day. Rather than multiple people deciding to drive multiple cars instead, taking up space on the road, and then parking.

One passenger sitting in a taxi is taking as much road space as the same person driving their own car at any given time. That the taxi might make extra trips after doesn't reduce the amount congestion added, unless those people are sharing or something.
The taxi making extra trips to collect or reposition could even be adding to the amount of trips.

Dick Turnip · 10-12-2020 3:28pm

Effects wrote: »

Yeah, it's flicking a switch, which most of them can't even manage at the moment anyway. Changing the colour of the lights won't make much difference.

I quoted you directly where you said:

Sorry, probably badly worded in my OP alright. I was suggesting switching the lights as an easier way to enforce the bus lane use by taxis (if the will was there to enforce obviously). Also, red/green light would make it easier to spot a free taxi on the street if you needed one.

As an aside, I used to think it would be crazy to ban taxis from using the lane altogether, but I am coming around to the idea of it.

Effects wrote: »

So then my 20 minute journey wouldn't be the same within the parameters you had set out.

But back to this point - the other option is you could use the bus or luas?

Also the whole point is that emptier bus lanes -> buses become more attractive for people to use -> people switch to public transport more -> traffic eases a bit for people that need/choose to drive

Dick Turnip · 10-12-2020 3:31pm

Effects wrote: »

But it's multiple people hiring that car over the course of a day. Rather than multiple people deciding to drive multiple cars instead, taking up space on the road, and then parking.

Deleted User wrote: »

One passenger sitting in a taxi is taking as much road space as the same person driving their own car at any given time. That the taxi might make extra trips after doesn't reduce the amount congestion added, unless those people are sharing or something.
The taxi making extra trips to collect or reposition could even be adding to the amount of trips.

pg633 hit the nail on the head here

robertpatterson · 10-12-2020 3:34pm

If the taxi is on the way to pick up theyre allowed to use the bus lane i always thought?
That and also if theyre dropping a package off for a fare they can also as theyd be on the meter
Either case would be the driver in the car alone so i dont know what your solution to that is

Ashleigh1986 · 10-12-2020 3:58pm

So you want taxis to be stuck in heavy traffic while the customer waits at their house or place of business for same taxi to arrive ???.
Taxis have their place in the transport system .
To get people from a to b it's vital that taxis are allowed to operate in bus lanes .

Ashleigh1986 · 10-12-2020 4:02pm

loyatemu wrote: »

ban them altogether - either a road is congested, in which case the buslane should be reserved for buses; or it's not congested in which case the taxis don't need to use the bus lane. They're not public transport, and when they're driving around with no passengers they're literally transporting no-one while taking up road space so are worse than private cars.

TAXIS ARE NOT PUBLIC TRANSPORT ?????
Congrats on the most stupid post I've ever seen .
What or who do you think are in the taxis ?

cgcsb · 10-12-2020 4:09pm

loyatemu wrote: »

ban them altogether - either a road is congested, in which case the buslane should be reserved for buses; or it's not congested in which case the taxis don't need to use the bus lane. They're not public transport, and when they're driving around with no passengers they're literally transporting no-one while taking up road space so are worse than private cars.

I do agree with your sentiment but I'm more taking into account that the vast majority of bus lanes are only 7-7 anyway and it's only central areas and some inner suburbs that have notorious pinch points that will be enforced at all anyway.

loyatemu · 10-12-2020 4:15pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I do agree with your sentiment but I'm more taking into account that the vast majority of bus lanes are only 7-7 anyway and it's only central areas and some inner suburbs that have notorious pinch points that will be enforced at all anyway.

well that's a problem with the lanes then, the rush hour starts well before 7am and ends after 7pm in most of Dublin, the hours of the lanes should be extended, or they should all be 24H.

ElJeffe · 10-12-2020 4:21pm

Just ban taxis from using them. Bus lanes exclusively for Dublin buses, coach's, minibuses etc...

Effects · 10-12-2020 4:26pm

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Also, red/green light would make it easier to spot a free taxi on the street if you needed one.

Same problem persists, where the taxi driver won't switch the colour of the lights.

But back to this point - the other option is you could use the bus or luas?

Not always an option based on where I'm going, equipment I'm carrying, etc.
My father is disabled, he can't get to the bus.

cgcsb · 10-12-2020 4:35pm

loyatemu wrote: »

well that's a problem with the lanes then, the rush hour starts well before 7am and ends after 7pm in most of Dublin, the hours of the lanes should be extended, or they should all be 24H.

I'd agree, but first things first, enforce the existing rules. We have a 24 hour bus lane on Bachelors walk at the moment and it's choco block with cars most of the time.

Effects · 10-12-2020 4:42pm

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

TAXIS ARE NOT PUBLIC TRANSPORT ?????

What or who do you think are in the taxis ?

merlin_147856440_2dcbd7c0-b7fd-4aad-9394-3f02636a389f-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

magicbastarder · 10-12-2020 4:50pm

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

So you want taxis to be stuck in heavy traffic while the customer waits at their house or place of business for same taxi to arrive ???.
Taxis have their place in the transport system .
To get people from a to b it's vital that taxis are allowed to operate in bus lanes .

if i want to get from A to B, if i hail a taxi, i'm allowed used the bus lane. if i drive, i'm not. yet both journeys use the exact same mode of transport, and achieve the same end.

and has been pointed out, if i drive myself, the car is only on the road from A to B, whereas a taxi may have to drive empty for several KM to get to my house.

GT89 · 10-12-2020 4:55pm

They should be banned from certain bus lanes especially around the city centre where there are too many taxis causing congestion. From what I noticed it dosen't seem to be such an issue in the suburbs for example I don't see too much issue with taxis in the bus lane along the n11.

Also if taxis without a fare should be banned from the bus lane should out of service buses also be banned?

My proposal for Dublin taxis & bus lanes

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