Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Lillyfae · 07-12-2020 3:23pm

khalessi wrote: »

You acknowledge though you have actuallyno clue that there havent been a lot of cluster****s as you put it. That is an assumption if it isnt link please.

My post disappeared, but there is evidence of one cluster being ignored by public health. I'm not going to look for links when there is no evidence of more being ignored by public health.

Thats me · 07-12-2020 4:17pm

Sorry for previous chart, here is updated not so dramatic one.

Seem to me growth in 5-14 yo group prepending for one week growth in at least 65+ group. Can we conclude from this direction of transfer of the Covid? I mean it is likely not children getting infection from their grand parents but likely opposite - children bringing covid to home from the school?

meeeeh · 07-12-2020 4:20pm

Boggles wrote: »

Source for what?

I peddled no facts nor presented any data erroneously.

You on the other hand. Tut. Tut.

But I will not waste the threads time asking for proof of your assertions.

So no link. I'm not surprised.

meeeeh · 07-12-2020 4:28pm

Thats me wrote: »

Seem to me growth in 5-14 yo group prepending for one week growth in at least 65+ group. Can we conclude from this direction of transfer of the Covid? I mean it is likely not children getting infection from their grand parents but likely opposite - children bringing covid to home from the school?

No we can't conclude that.

07-12-2020 5:16pm

Thats me wrote: »

Sorry for previous chart, here is updated not so dramatic one.

Seem to me growth in 5-14 yo group prepending for one week growth in at least 65+ group. Can we conclude from this direction of transfer of the Covid? I mean it is likely not children getting infection from their grand parents but likely opposite - children bringing covid to home from the school?

I could just as easily point to the bulge in cases in over 65's in mid to late September and say that caused the rise, but I wont, because that would be taking a single piece of data out of context and drawing erroneous conclusions

vid36 · 07-12-2020 5:31pm

Denmark joins the list of countries closing schools. Later primary and secondary schools to close from December 9 in 38 of its 98 districts, including the capital Copenhagen.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-06/denmark-plans-partial-lockdown-of-main-cities-after-record-cases

07-12-2020 5:48pm

vid36 wrote: »

Denmark joins the list of countries closing schools. Later primary and secondary schools to close from December 9 in 38 of its 98 districts, including the capital Copenhagen.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-06/denmark-plans-partial-lockdown-of-main-cities-after-record-cases

Yet only Iceland, Faroe Islands and the Vatican in Europe have a lower case rate than us, and we with our schools open

Lillyfae · 07-12-2020 5:57pm

It’s almost as if different countries, with different restrictions, different cultures and different case numbers are having to do things differently.

hesaidshesaid · 08-12-2020 12:17am

Just to clarify the debate re. whether close contacts in schools are being tested. Here is a case where they are not. Primary school, no masks on children. All staff wearing masks, all windows open, staff-room off limits.

Symptoms were identified and a child was sent for a test last Wednesday. Results were received Friday evening. Child tested positive.

Numerous attempts were made by the school to contact Public Health over the weekend. No answer on any phone line. As an aside, principals are expected to be contactable on their personal mobiles by Public Health at any time.

Finally got through this morning. Risk assessment was carried out by Public Health and a class, its teacher and relevant SNAs sent home as they were 'close contacts' - Public Health's term. They have all been told to 'restrict their movements'.

No-one has been sent for a test. Not one.

If any of the other parents decide to contact their GP and request a test for their child, and they test positive, they will now be classified as 'private home transmission'. If any of the parents test positive, it will have the same outcome.

None of the siblings in other classes were told by Public Health to stay at home. So if any of the kids are asymptomatic and pass it on to siblings, the sibling may well bring it back into the school.

This is the experience of one school. It is unlikely to be the only one.

History Queen · 08-12-2020 12:28am

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Just to clarify the debate re. whether close contacts in schools are being tested. Here is a case where they are not. Primary school, no masks on children. All staff wearing masks, all windows open, staff-room off limits.

Symptoms were identified and a child was sent for a test last Wednesday. Results were received Friday evening. Child tested positive.

Numerous attempts were made by the school to contact Public Health over the weekend. No answer on any phone line. As an aside, principals are expected to be contactable on their personal mobiles by Public Health at any time.

Finally got through this morning. Risk assessment was carried out by Public Health and a class, its teacher and relevant SNAs sent home as they were 'close contacts' - Public Health's term. They have all been told to 'restrict their movements'.

No-one has been sent for a test. Not one.

If any of the other parents decide to contact their GP and request a test for their child, and they test positive, they will now be classified as 'private home transmission'. If any of the parents test positive, it will have the same outcome.

None of the siblings in other classes were told by Public Health to stay at home. So if any of the kids are asymptomatic and pass it on to siblings, the sibling may well bring it back into the school.

This is the experience of one school. It is unlikely to be the only one.

This is just so hard to understand. Surely for all of us it is so important that all possible cases are identified. I understand the short term importance of keeping schools open (and agree schools should remain open if possible) but stories like this make it seem as if they are putting the opening of schools ahead of supressing the virus. It doesn't make sense. It is grossly unfair to school staff, students and their familes, to not treat them the same as every other sector with regard to contact tracing and testing.

hesaidshesaid · 08-12-2020 12:43am

Also, just to note, since Public Health were not contactable over the weekend, that whole class and relevant adults came into school today. They were all there together, in the small classroom, breathing the same air and interacting all morning, until we finally got the Public Health risk assessment result. Presumably some of the children used the school toilets etc etc. They are a junior class so there is no social distancing. ( Social distancing is not a requirement for children in 2nd class and under. This is a DES ruling).

Had Public Health just answered their phones, as was promised to the INTO over midterm, this could have been addressed at the weekend and none of those kids or adults would have been in school today, thus limiting the spread and giving their parents a chance to organise childcare.

Thats me · 08-12-2020 12:46am

History Queen wrote: »

I understand the short term importance of keeping schools open (and agree schools should remain open if possible) but stories like this make it seem as if they are putting the opening of schools ahead of supressing the virus. It doesn't make sense.

I do not understand even the short term importance of keeping schools open, but this is one of objectives of Govt - to enable provision of child care and to ensure schools could remain open.You can read it in this document. We have discussed this on page 305 of this thread.

khalessi · 08-12-2020 7:57am

https://twitter.com/oliveblogs/status/1335909775981293569

Just for those asking how many teachers so far got Covid19, as a caveat some may have caught it at home, some.

Biggest thing I personally feel that has helped so far with Covid19 is keeping windows open. But since DEPT issued guidelines about windows, opening them when classroom empty !!! (daft as they are needed to be open when classroom full) I know my school has already seen an increase in cases. All I know is my room will be very cold this Winter.

Boggles · 08-12-2020 9:16am

That's an apt number.

08-12-2020 9:18am

khalessi wrote: »

https://twitter.com/oliveblogs/status/1335909775981293569

Just for those asking how many teachers so far got Covid19, as a caveat some may have caught it at home, some.

Biggest thing I personally feel that has helped so far with Covid19 is keeping windows open. But since DEPT issued guidelines about windows, opening them when classroom empty !!! (daft as they are needed to be open when classroom full) I know my school has already seen an increase in cases. All I know is my room will be very cold this Winter.

74,000 cases in 4.9million people is about 1.5%. Approx 65,000 teachers in the country, so that's around 1%. I hope all recovered well, however the rate among teachers is lower than the country as a whole.

Boggles · 08-12-2020 9:19am

Deleted User wrote: »

74,000 cases in 4.9million people is about 1.5%. Approx 65,000 teachers in the country, so that's around 1%. I hope all recovered well, however the rate among teachers is lower than the country as a whole.

What's the rate among plumbers or farmers?

What are you comparing it with?

08-12-2020 9:25am

Boggles wrote: »

What's the rate among plumbers or farmers?

What are you comparing it with?

The country. I would expect it to be a bit lower among farmers and people working from home and higher among healthcare workers

khalessi · 08-12-2020 9:27am

Deleted User wrote: »

74,000 cases in 4.9million people is about 1.5%. Approx 65,000 teachers in the country, so that's around 1%. I hope all recovered well, however the rate among teachers is lower than the country as a whole.

Didnt say it was or wasnt but it is a question that is always being asked here, so finally an answer.

Lillyfae · 08-12-2020 9:34am

khalessi wrote: »

Didnt say it was or wasnt but it is a question that is always being asked here, so finally an answer.

Do you concede that it is lower though? So we can conclude that teachers are at a low risk, finally?

meeeeh · 08-12-2020 9:38am

It's actually hard to compare because teachers were not in work first 6 months of pandemic. Some definitely got it at home but better info would be the percentages for last three months.

Boggles · 08-12-2020 9:39am

Deleted User wrote: »

The country. I would expect it to be a bit lower among farmers and people working from home and higher among healthcare workers

Ah, no. Comparing to the country is statistical smoke and mirrors.

The data you should use is confirmed infections in comparison with other professions and obviously of similar working age.

Also when did these infections occur, since March or when schools opened?

the kelt · 08-12-2020 9:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

74,000 cases in 4.9million people is about 1.5%. Approx 65,000 teachers in the country, so that's around 1%. I hope all recovered well, however the rate among teachers is lower than the country as a whole.

Since when though?

Teachers werent in schools from March to September.

If the overall rate for 9 months of Covid is 1.5% how does 1% in 3 moths compare?

MerlinSouthDub · 08-12-2020 10:00am

Boggles wrote: »

Ah, no. Comparing to the country is statistical smoke and mirrors.

The data you should use is confirmed infections in comparison with other professions and obviously of similar working age.

Also when did these infections occur, since March or when schools opened?

Comparing it to the national average is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. On average, teachers are at lower risk of infection that the rest of the population. This is great news, and well done to schools and teachers for keeping things safe. If you have other comparisons to share, please do so. It is clear at this stage that schools are not a hotbed of infection in Ireland.

the kelt · 08-12-2020 10:06am

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Comparing it to the national average is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. On average, teachers are at lower risk of infection that the rest of the population. This is great news, and well done to schools and teachers for keeping things safe. If you have other comparisons to share, please do so. It is clear at this stage that schools are not a hotbed of infection in Ireland.

How is it clear though?

wirelessdude01 · 08-12-2020 10:07am

Once again, if the powers that be were more transparent with information if would be great. Drip, drip, drip it comes. Some validates what they have already said, some downright contradicts and then there is a lot that fudges.

Principal told us yesterday that there have been 6 further cases in our school over the past month over 3 classes but that the HSE haven't recommended anyone go for testing. Some parents went to their GP as they weren't happy and a further 8 were found from 13 that went for testing. All these will have been classified as home cases.

Just to note that a grand total of ZERO children or staff were classified as close contacts due to the 48hr rule.

the kelt · 08-12-2020 10:12am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Once again, if the powers that be were more transparent with information if would be great. Drip, drip, drip it comes. Some validates what they have already said, some downright contradicts and then there is a lot that fudges.

Principal told us yesterday that there have been 6 further cases in our school over the past month over 3 classes but that the HSE haven't recommended anyone go for testing. Some parents went to their GP as they weren't happy and a further 8 were found from 13 that went for testing. All these will have been classified as home cases.

Just to note that a grand total of ZERO children or staff were classified as close contacts due to the 48hr rule.

Exact same as whats happened in our school albeit with lower numbers.

Cases but no one being recommended for testing, couple of cases that did occur all classed as infections in the home.

Lillyfae · 08-12-2020 10:12am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Once again, if the powers that be were more transparent with information if would be great. Drip, drip, drip it comes. Some validates what they have already said, some downright contradicts and then there is a lot that fudges.

Principal told us yesterday that there have been 6 further cases in our school over the past month over 3 classes but that the HSE haven't recommended anyone go for testing. Some parents went to their GP as they weren't happy and a further 8 were found from 13 that went for testing. All these will have been classified as home cases.

Just to note that a grand total of ZERO children or staff were classified as close contacts due to the 48hr rule.

You haven't been in since March, right? All of your information is second hand hearsay. You have no idea if those children had been in school, or at home, or what their pods/ bubbles look like, or if they were contacted by public health themselves- why would the school be informed about children's private medical information?

meeeeh · 08-12-2020 10:15am

the kelt wrote: »

Since when though?

Teachers werent in schools from March to September.

If the overall rate for 9 months of Covid is 1.5% how does 1% in 3 moths compare?

It doesn't mean it is 1%. It's sort of meaningless because testing criteria is different through the year. And even if you look at last three months I would suspect education is one of the professions where more testing is done so there would be more cases confirmed. Then you have to look at positivity rate and so on.

All you can conclude is that there is nothing overly worrying going on in schools at the moment.

I still don't know of any cases in our kid's school. They all seem to be doing fine.

MerlinSouthDub · 08-12-2020 10:16am

the kelt wrote: »

How is it clear though?

Lower rates of infection in teachers than the overall average. Lower rates of infection in children than young adults. There is literally zero data in Ireland suggesting that schools are driving infection rates in a major way.

the kelt · 08-12-2020 10:18am

meeeeh wrote: »

It doesn't mean it is 1%. It's sort of meaningless because testing criteria is different through the year. And even if you look at last three months I would suspect education is one of the professions where more testing is done so there would be more cases confirmed. Then you have to look at positivity rate and so on.

All you can conclude is that there is nothing overly worrying going on in schools at the moment.

So the idea of it only being 1% amongst teachers is a figure based on nothing then really?

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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