If the world goes completely vegan

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 03:13PM

Gary kk wrote: »

I don't really know, would it be swapped out for palm oil. But surly they could of broke down the uses if it was such a groundbreaking investigation.

Edit : Just to clarify I don't know because I am having a hell of a time trying to locate solid figures on what products are produced and value of the products produced.

richie123 · 02-12-2020 03:24PM

That lab grown meat is years away.
50 dolllers for a chicken nugget ??
Maddness,its 30 year minimum before it hits a price point close on today's prices.
When it does hit that price point the countryside will just be abandoned.
Beware of the law of unintended consequences.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 03:28PM

Abandoned countryside brimming with wildlife and trees id what some people want

El Tarangu · 02-12-2020 03:29PM

Gary kk wrote: »

https://www.cargill.co.uk/en/liverpool-location

Its crushed for oil it never mentioned that in the article.

"Twenty-six percent of the Planet’s ice-free land is used for livestock grazing
and 33 percent of croplands are used for livestock feed production. "

http://www.fao.org/3/ar591e/ar591e.pdf

Perhaps some of this 33% of all of the croplands in use, in the world, produces from soy bean oil for human consumption as well - well, we can only hope. But I'm not sure that this detracts much from the argument that animal husbandry is a huge driver for deforestation and habitat loss.

richie123 · 02-12-2020 03:31PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Abandoned countryside brimming with wildlife and trees id what some people want

I know

Any one know of any companies doing labgrown meat in a quicker timescale and at a cheaper price point ?

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 03:52PM

richie123 wrote: »

I know
Any one know of any companies doing labgrown meat in a quicker timescale and at a cheaper price point ?

Not yet, but some day, i reckon. I cant see it ever replacing meat totally it will just be another option, so you wont be out of a job any time soon.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 03:54PM

Gary kk wrote: »

Edit : Just to clarify I don't know because I am having a hell of a time trying to locate solid figures on what products are produced and value of the products produced.

If you look at it from a veggie/vegan perspective, the only place we hear that this stuff is grown for humans primarily, is a few posters on boards. It's not just the Guardian who I know farmers hate, even the Daily Mail are running stories on the Amazon being destroyed for British meat.
I mean should one of you not inform these news agencies that they're wrong?

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 04:09PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If you look at it from a veggie/vegan perspective, the only place we hear that this stuff is grown for humans primarily, is a few posters on boards. It's not just the Guardian who I know farmers hate, even the Daily Mail are running stories on the Amazon being destroyed for British meat.
I mean should one of you not inform these news agencies that they're wrong?

At this stage if you can give me a breakdown of the numbers from the EU or UN I will take them at face value.

To be fair it's been a while since the Guardain was unbiased.

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 04:12PM

El Tarangu wrote: »

"Twenty-six percent of the Planet’s ice-free land is used for livestock grazing
and 33 percent of croplands are used for livestock feed production. "

http://www.fao.org/3/ar591e/ar591e.pdf

Perhaps some of this 33% of all of the croplands in use, in the world, produces from soy bean oil for human consumption as well - well, we can only hope. But I'm not sure that this detracts much from the argument that animal husbandry is a huge driver for deforestation and habitat loss.

And of the 66% cropland how much is for confectionery for alcohol and other products we don't necessarily need maybe we could rewind that land first. And no I don't expect anyone to agree to that.

El Tarangu · 02-12-2020 04:16PM

richie123 wrote: »

That lab grown meat is years away.
50 dolllers for a chicken nugget ??
Maddness,its 30 year minimum before it hits a price point close on today's prices.
When it does hit that price point the countryside will just be abandoned.
Beware of the law of unintended consequences.

While I am hope (indeed, I'm certain) that the farmers of Ireland will be able to adapt and compete with this new entrant to the market, I'm afraid that I don't really find it a compelling argument to continue killing 50,000,000,000 chickens* each and every year in order to safeguard against some job losses in the poultry industry

* indeed the figure is actually much, much greater than that - this only counts the number of chickens killed in order to eat their meat; it doesn't count the chickens killed in egg production who are too old to lay everyday any longer, or the male chicks in egg production, who, not to harp on this point, are ground up alive the day they are born.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 04:20PM

Gary kk wrote: »

And of the 66% cropland how much is for confectionery for alcohol and other products we don't necessarily need maybe we could rewind that land first. And no I don't expect anyone to agree to that.

Some of us need alcohol

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 04:20PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Some of us need alcohol

Lol me included.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 04:23PM

Gary kk wrote: »

Lol me included.

You can make quite a lot of alcohol with not that much sugar and a packet of yeast and a few flavourings, I make a ginger beer easy enough that comes in at about 7.2%, I wonder what the biological footprint of that is.

El Tarangu · 02-12-2020 04:24PM

Gary kk wrote: »

And of the 66% cropland how much is for confectionery for alcohol and other products we don't necessarily need maybe we could rewind that land first. And no I don't expect anyone to agree to that.

Again - this post is an example from posters from the F & F forum asking posters on this forum to solve all the problems of agricultural production, of any kind.

Perhaps you should try on the beer, wine and spirits forum, because tbh I don't see how this question is relevant to this forum.

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 04:26PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You can make quite a lot of alcohol with not that much sugar and a packet of yeast and a few flavourings, I make a ginger beer easy enough that comes in at about 7.2%, I wonder what the biological footprint of that is.

7.2% I would be ko after a pint.

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 04:27PM

El Tarangu wrote: »

Again - this post is an example from posters from the F & F forum asking posters on this forum to solve all the problems of agricultural production, of any kind.

Perhaps you should try on the beer, wine and spirits forum, because tbh I don't see how this question is relevant to this forum.

Cool

ElKavo · 02-12-2020 04:30PM

The boss of Eat Just called it "one of the most significant milestones in the food industries" but challenges remain.

Firstly, it is much more expensive to produce lab-grown meat than plant-based products.

Case in point: Eat Just previously said it would sell lab-grown chicken nuggets at $50 each.

The cost has since come down but it will still be as expensive as premium chicken.

SRC: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55155741

Although it was $50 the price has already come down. Thought the article doesn't give a todays price. It certainly wont take 30 years before we see these directly competing with the cheapest nuggets on the market. Tech moves quick, far quicker than any optimization in animal farming.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 04:38PM

I wonder how it works... do they have to feed soy to some kind of meat lab monster?

ElKavo · 02-12-2020 04:39PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I wonder how it works... do they have to feed soy to some kind of meat lab monster?

Well 66% anyway

Seamai · 02-12-2020 04:52PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

Cultured fake chicken approved in Singapore. I wonder how long before this kind of stuff will become available in Europe?

I read that earlier, sounds vile. There was a time when some people shifted towards vegetarian diets for health reasons, (myself included for almost 10 years). However veganism seems a very different animal (no pun intended) to me.
In the last few years there has been a huge drive towards producing all manner of vegan options to pretty much everything, much of it highly processed and not healthy. A few years ago I was in vegan supermarket in Germany and was struck by how processed and unnatural much of the food was. I only eat meat a few times a week but I'd never substitute it with any sort of fake meat.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 04:55PM

Seamai wrote: »

I read that earlier, sounds vile. There was a time when some people shifted towards vegetarian diets for health reasons, (myself included for almost 10 years). However veganism seems a very different animal (no pun intended) to me.
In the last few years there has been a huge drive towards producing all manner of vegan options to pretty much everything, much of it highly processed and not healthy. A few years ago I was in vegan supermarket in Germany and was struck by how processed and unnatural much of the food was. I only eat meat a few times a week but I'd never substitute it with any sort of fake meat.

Vegan or not, everyone eats too much processed food. It's a big market now for vegans but the staples of a good vegan diet would be pulses and veg.

gozunda · 02-12-2020 07:02PM

Gary kk wrote: »

Edit : Just to clarify I don't know because I am having a hell of a time trying to locate solid figures on what products are produced and value of the products produced.

I'd agree with that much of what is published is at best confusing.

I think what we do know is that 86% of livestock feed is not suitable for human consumption and much of that is crop residues and by-products

On the article quoted above

Analysis of shipping data shows that Cargill imported 1.5m tonnes of Brazilian soya to the UK in the six years

That works out at approx. 250,000 kg of Brazilian soybeans imported into the UK each year. And as you pointed out those soybeans are processed for their oil and the leftover meal is sent for animal feed.

Don't agree with growing soy there - but looking at total Soybean production for Brazil - that's a drop in the ocean tbh. Production figures show that more than 122 million metric tons of soy beans were grown in Brazil in 2019/ 2020.

In the same period combined domestic use and exports of soy beans to China made up 87% (106.6 million metric tons) of all soybeans grown in Brazil

Leaving approx 13 % of all Brazilian soybeans being exported to other countries globally - of which the main importers were the Netherlands, Iran and Spain Thailand and Turkey.

I'd like to see all countries stopping such imports from Brazil. Not sure how that would go down with China tbh.

At present approx two thirds of all soybeans are grown outside of Brazil with the United States as the leading soybean producing country globally. No reason Brazilian production cant be moved to other suitable regions which don't involve deforestation tbh.

02-12-2020 10:59PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

Cultured fake chicken approved in Singapore. I wonder how long before this kind of stuff will become available in Europe?

It’s clear where all this is heading and it’s great to see.

The numbers in there are crazy and this is from the article - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/chart-of-the-day-this-is-how-many-animals-we-eat-each-year/

This will be an easy transition for your average carnist to make and especially the younger carnist who wants to make better choices for, what will be, their planet.

It’s also good to see the terms ‘drug-free’ and ‘cruelty-free meat’ in that article as I’ve never understood the struggle to accept that those terms have common use.

The Guardian has always provided great journalism and I’m happy to make my regular contributions to access their online content. I would encourage more people to do this. I do it through PayPal.

This article gives hope and it’s great to think that within 20 years we could see that 60% of meat provided will not come from dead animals - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/12/most-meat-in-2040-will-not-come-from-slaughtered-animals-report

That’s great news for the environment and for the billions of animals that won’t face slaughter.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 11:46PM

The Guardian have this as their main story tonight

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/humanity-is-waging-war-on-nature-says-un-secretary-general-antonio-guterres

They are the only major news source that are taking the environmental crisis seriously. That is why I have given them contributions. Also love their sport content.

richie123 · 03-12-2020 12:09AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Not yet, but some day, i reckon. I cant see it ever replacing meat totally it will just be another option, so you wont be out of a job any time soon.

Why wouldn't it replace meat it's basically the same thing ?
Only problem I have with this is it'll just be big conglomerate s that will be allowed produce it!

Thelonious Monk · 03-12-2020 12:50AM

richie123 wrote: »

Why wouldn't it replace meat it's basically the same thing ?
Only problem I have with this is it'll just be big conglomerate s that will be allowed produce it!

Well you're talking to a tiny subsection of people in this sub, most people would probably prefer to eat real animals, for now anyway. I just hope we can find a way to balance nature with food production, worldwide.

richie123 · 03-12-2020 09:20AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well you're talking to a tiny subsection of people in this sub, most people would probably prefer to eat real animals, for now anyway. I just hope we can find a way to balance nature with food production, worldwide.

Lab grown has some battle to become mainstream.beef at the minute is produced below cost and it's dirt cheap ..vast majority on the planet don't care what they eat so long as it's cheap

White Clover · 03-12-2020 12:05PM

richie123 wrote: »

Lab grown has some battle to become mainstream.beef at the minute is produced below cost and it's dirt cheap ..vast majority on the planet don't care what they eat so long as it's cheap

True, but the conglomerates aim is money, they will keep banging the drum that food is manufactured by them in a factory.
Essentially, a certain amount of people will be dependent on these manufacturers for their food. The remainder will still realise that they can produce their own food of much higher quality without swelling the coffers of big business.

Tar.Aldarion · 03-12-2020 05:35PM

richie123 wrote: »

Lab grown has some battle to become mainstream.beef at the minute is produced below cost and it's dirt cheap ..vast majority on the planet don't care what they eat so long as it's cheap

I wonder how cheap they can make it, should have low costs when it is at scale. In 4 years it got 30,000 times cheaper to make.

patsy_mccabe · 03-12-2020 08:52PM

No farm yard animals = no farm yard manure

No farm yard manure = no organic fertiliser

No organic fertiliser = no sustainable food production for 8.3 billion people

It really is that simple.

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If the world goes completely vegan

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